bin.pol.social

Skullgrid, do games w PEGI gives Balatro an 18+ rating for gambling imagery
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

this is starting to be horseshit. Every windows computer has a version of fucking solitare on it , there are other card based games that don’t get this treatment, and the lootboxes are actual gambling.

I thought at the start it was a type of beurocratical problem, but it’s been too long.

tb_,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

Not entirely sure about the European PEGI, but the American ESRB is funded by the same companies that it regulates. It was created after the outcry about violent games and was the industry self-regulating to avoid the government getting more involved.

It is a lobby group for the industry, for better and in this case very much for worse.

I assume PEGI is little different.

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

To clarify: the ESRB is the rating arm. The ESA that runs it? That’s the lobbying arm.

saltesc,

PEGI and many other groups are private groups. They’re not an authority of any form. They’re not associated with government, public regulation, or public election. They’re a group of people that create their own standards outside of the ISO or any actual regulation representing the public.

Some countries do have actual public systems, but many just have these private groups that know best.

2pt_perversion, (edited )

deleted_by_author

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  • LorIps,
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    In Austria PEGI is “enforced” in Vienna while USK is “enforced” in Salzburg (and Germany, the reason why they buy all their games here). And PEGI might be shit, but USK is a million times worse.

    ___qwertz___,

    USK rated Balatro with a minimum age of 12 because of “elements resembling gambling”. Sounds more reasonable to me than the PEGI rating.

    LorIps,
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    German Authorities (technically not USK but USK affiliated completely banned Wolfenstein, Dying Light, etc. Not 18+ or whatever it’s straight up illegal to promote or openly sell them in Germany.

    echodot,

    I can kind of understand Wolfenstein, as Germany does seem to have this thing where they do and also don’t want to face their past.

    But Dying light is a generic zombie game.

    LorIps, (edited )
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, it’s always stupid what ends up there and what doesn’t. And because of Germany’s stupid laws the German version often ends up worse than other versions (often even removing the English language option) (And people are surprised that we hate our northern neighbors…)

    Here’s a (non-exclusive) list of banned games in Germany (it’s in German but the game titles should make it accessible to people that can only speak English): de.wikipedia.org/…/Kategorie:Indiziertes_Computer…

    Oh yeah, Half-Life was indexed in Germany until 2017 (coincidentally when they switched from Elke Monssen-Engberding to someone less grumpy (half of the stupid decisions coming from Germany just stem from some grumpy old person who’s entrenched in a Department))

    echodot,

    I honestly think it would be easier to just list games that they allow. I suppose Germans are really into Tetris or something since that’s apparently the only acceptable game.

    LorIps,
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    It really has gotten better over the last couple years but for two decades they pretty much banned everything with the slightest hint of being adult. They are I believe also the reason for why Contra is Probotector in Europe

    Takumidesh,

    This is all well and true, but it’s important to note that these organizations exist as a sidestep to regulation, they are formed by industry insiders as a promise to the regulators that they will be honest about how they rate games (or movies or music) so that the government doesn’t actually get involved and do it’s job.

    It’s a form of regulatory capture that allows the industry itself to decide what is harmful to us.

    It’s basically the definition of conflict of interest.

    the_post_of_tom_joad,

    i got curious and looks like PEGI is somewhat similar at least. The ISFE is a self-regulating/co-regulating (w/e that means) body. There seem to be some kinda independent audits but… Looks like they don’t audit so good, if this article is evidence

    tb_,
    @tb_@lemmy.world avatar

    but… Looks like they don’t audit so good, if this article is evidence

    That’s the whole issue with it being a lobby group. It makes them a ton of money, so they are incentivised against making a rating for it because that would draw more attention/limit sales.

    And that’s where the whole government lobbying part comes in.

    the_post_of_tom_joad,

    Right i was just clarifying what i learned about PEGIs setup, that it seems similar to the US’s ESRB. I’m a yank and didn’t know before looking either

    tlou3please,

    In fairness, I would much rather that than governments directly controlling access, creating an additional form of direct censorship.

    Not saying what we have now is great or anything though. I’m not exactly defending it.

    tb_,
    @tb_@lemmy.world avatar

    I largely agree, but the interests have gotten misaligned. Back then it was the threat of regulation which changed things up, I think the governments should do a little more of that.

    HawlSera,

    That’s basically why the ESRB was created, it was “Self-Regulate, or we’re just going to ban 80% of games on the market as a scapegoat for Columbine!”

    JackbyDev,

    Luigi Mangione played Among Us, an assassination game!

    ricecake,

    Eeeeh, at least then there would theoretically be public accountability. The FCC has limited censorship power that they’re generally unobjectionable with.

    I’m honestly more concerned with the censorship from private enterprises than with government consorship currently. Less accountability and less recourse.

    It also really only becomes censorship if the rating system is used to prohibit speech. If we instead made it more like the nutritional guidelines on food it could instead give more of a content breakdown than setting an arbitrary age.

    1985MustangCobra,
    @1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca avatar

    did you just compare solitaire to gambling?

    frezik,

    That would be the point, yes. Balatro has cards and chips, but chips are just there for keeping points. If Balatro is 18+ for gambling imagery, then so should Solitaire. That would be stupid, so Balatro shouldn’t get it, either.

    RedAggroBest,

    I think the important note is it’s not just the cards in Balatro. Is it right? Not in my opinion. You have to admit tho, that it uses waaaaay more gambling imagery (you make antes for fuck’s sake)

    Arcka,

    Agreed, gambling doesn’t have to be for money or even anything tangibly real.

    damnedfurry,

    But it has to be for something. And in Balatro, there simply isn’t any gambling. You never wager anything to win anything based on that wager. All you have are points, and you can neither wager them, nor lose them in any way, chance-based or otherwise.

    There is zero gambling in Balatro.

    damnedfurry,

    You literally do not make antes in Balatro, in any way.

    You should know that you’re talking about before drawing conclusions.

    Cypher,

    I haven’t played or watched Balataro but from the description on steam

    You’re going to need every edge you can get in order to reach the boss blind, beat the final ante and secure victory.

    Unless ante here is referring to something else it seems it does have them?

    damnedfurry, (edited )

    “Antes” are what Balatro calls its levels. Each level consists of 3 stages, which the game calls “blinds” (small/big/boss).

    In poker, you don’t “beat” an ante, it’s part of what you bet. You also don’t “reach” blinds, nor is there such a thing as a “boss blind” in poker. And the word “bet” or any synonym should be pretty conspicuous by its absence in Balatro’s description. There is no gambling without betting/wagering, after all.

    So yes, if you’re familiar with poker, that description should make it obvious that the words have different meanings in the game than they do in poker.

    The only actual ‘mechanic’ that’s actually the same in Balatro as in poker is what comprises the different hands, and their relative value. And even then, there are also hands in Balatro that don’t exist in poker at all (five of a kind, flush house, etc.).

    Cypher,

    Firstly you could read user names before going off, I was simply asking a question that Im unwilling to buy the game to answer.

    damnedfurry,

    Going off? Yeah, you asked a question, and I answered it. What are you talking about?

    Cypher,

    Between your immediate downvotes and the tone of your message your response is unnecessarily long and rude

    damnedfurry,

    It’s exactly as long as it needed to be to explain everything it explained, and it is a completely dry comment with no real tone at all, the “rudeness” is of your own invention.

    Ironically, “Firstly you could read user names before going off” is far ruder than anything I wrote. Also, you’re assuming I’m the one who downvoted you–have you considered that maybe your tone earned that from someone else, maybe?

    ViolentPacifist,

    Your tone is unnecessarily rude.

    ech,

    Unnecessarily long

    Lol. “How dare you give me a comprehensive explanation of specifically what I asked about! Rude!” What is rude is being so shitty to someone that went out of their way to try and help you understand something, acting like it was a personal insult. How selfish and demanding of you.

    RedAggroBest,

    Do you know what gambling imagery entails? It doesn’t have to be how antes actually are used in poker for it to be gambling imagery.

    A game just has to show characters gambling for it to be gambling imagery. It doesn’t even have to be anything more than a level in a casino.

    damnedfurry,

    A game just has to show characters gambling for it to be gambling imagery.

    Okay. Well, Balatro doesn’t do that–no gambling of any kind happens in the game.

    So, what’s your point, exactly?

    RedAggroBest,

    The game is literally made up of gambling imagery. From cards to chips to terms, the whole fuckin 9 yards. MY POINT IS ITS NOT GAMBLING, ITS GAMBLING IMAGERY.

    I prefaced the whole fuckin statement I started with with saying it’s bullshit. DESPITE THAT BULLSHIT THE LABEL IS NOT INCORRECT. I hope you can stop being fucking obtuse and see my point after I’ve rephrased it multiple times.

    sukhmel,

    So… solitaire should be 18+ after all?

    wizardbeard,

    The term Ante in the game is used instead of “round” or “level”. It’s a measure of how far you’ve gotten. Each “ante” is made up of three “stakes”, point totals you need to beat in a set number of hands played and cards discarded.

    There’s no aspect of choosing how much you risk, of “ante-ing up”, or how much you stake. You either beat the points goal (called “chips”) or you lose. There’s no playing of your hand against other hands, bluffing about how good your hand may be to convince others to fold, etc. It’s just you against the score goal. If you beat it faster than the amount of hands you’re given to work with you get extra rewards.

    The game has no elements where you stake chips for rewards or anything like that. It borrows basic elements of scoring mechanics from poker, and uses a lot of poker terms for other purposes, but the closest part to gambling is the ability to buy random card packs between rounds (to customize your deck instead of just having the standard 52 card deck).

    In between rounds you have access to buy various things to add further modifiers to your scoring, and to adjust the composition of your deck in order to make getting specific combinations more likely.

    You can learn most of this in about 5 minutes with the demo, or by taking some time to watch someone else play on youtube.

    damnedfurry,

    Minor correction, the three stages in an “ante” are the “blinds”. The game instead uses “stake” to describe its ‘ascension’ system (a common mechanic in roguelixe games, where going to a higher ascension/“stake” adds difficulty modifiers to the game, for those who don’t know what I mean by that).

    JackbyDev,

    It’s near the line, I agree, I see your point, but it’s just the terminology and no gambling mechanics. You don’t set the ante, you just play. They could change the name ante to level and it would be the same. It’s not like you look at your stuff and decide how much you’re willing to risk. (You could argue skipping blinds is this sort of risk analysis like gambling but that’s hardly unique to Balatro.) There is no benefit from stopping earlier because if you lose on ante one or lose on ante seven it’s the same outcome. Also, if you choose to restart one ante one or ante seven it’s the same outcome. Because it’s just a score keeping mechanism. Nothing more.

    ech,

    It’s as much related to gambling as Balatro is.

    Dagamant, do games w What's going on with Borderlands 2? Steam is giving it for free, but the game has 23% positive recent reviews.

    You literally posted the answer to your question. Here is an expansion of the details.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d8063cbe-622a-4e9f-aaa8-24b5bb421203.jpeg

    Goodeye8,

    I haven't read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.

    raltoid,

    The “collected data types” in that comment seems to be copy/pasted from the privacy policy

    www.take2games.com/privacy/en-US/

    avattar,

    That might be US only, where the companies have freedom to get all the customer’s data and do with it as they will.

    echodot,

    The list where this doesn’t apply seems to basically be every country with consumer protection laws.

    They obviously know this won’t fly pretty much anywhere other than the US so that’s all they’re trying to push.

    Vanilla_PuddinFudge,
    @Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub avatar

    Most people don’t care about privacy.

    Most people in the western civilized world are on Facebook, so…

    blind3rdeye,

    but ask those same people whether facebook should be allowed to collect and use all that data, and people will generally say ‘no’.

    LainTrain,

    Sad truth, but it’s no excuse.

    Vinstaal0,

    Do we know this is a thing in the EU?

    Peter_Arbeitsloser,

    I just read the german version and compared them a little. (www.take2games.com/privacy/de/) Its about the same. But ist also reads fairly normal like any other privacy policy. I also think its in line with EU law. The collected data always relates to whatever TakeTwo service you use and whatever data you provide voluntarily or technically by using it. Thats fine by EU law.

    moon,

    Due to Steam’s tos updates a few months ago, isn’t take-two opening itself up to a massive lawsuit?

    SaharaMaleikuhm,

    No idea, but I think it would be funny, so I’m all for it and hope you are right.

    Nephalis, (edited )

    Hm… Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income it seems.

    Thats a fucking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.

    But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source? Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os knows nothing about me. My MS account neither.

    On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.

    Fiivemacs,

    Checkout Jump Ship? It’s some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion

    store.steampowered.com/app/1757300/Jump_Ship/

    topherclay,

    oh cool, I can see that it’s similar Borderlands by the screenshots, and I can see that it’s like Star Citizen because it’s not actually released yet and they’re taking money for early access.

    Fiivemacs,

    Hah exactly :D

    Dremor,
    @Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

    Happy cake day

    thermal_shock,

    😂😂

    Dagamant,

    Unless you use Linux, your OS knows a ton about you. On top of that, with root access to your computer they can do whatever they want and if their system gets hacked you become a member of a bot farm or crypto mine.

    Nephalis,

    Well I use Linux, but not on my gaming pc. I would switch to it because its all amd, but I don’t want to because it lacks the driver suite for my gpu (adrenaline) and I don’t want to install a bunch of small applications to gain a small fraction of options it offers.

    It’s a pitty. Because I realy want to ditch windows since its newest iteration.

    TabbsTheBat, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact
    @TabbsTheBat@pawb.social avatar

    Companies would still be cutting flour with chalk if they had their way. “It’s limiting blah blah blah” that’s the point you corpos, consumer rights are about the consumer not the bottom line

    Kyrgizion,

    Not to mention that studios like Larian have proven that it’s entirely possible to make a blockbuster game without teams of 400 heads, changing direction and leadership every few years and laying off the people who made the product in the first place. They really seethed at that one, so many salty comments lol.

    Klear,

    Larian has close to 500 employees across studios in seven different countries. They’re definitely the good guys (at least for now), but they are not an example of a small indie studio.

    errer,

    BG3 being DRM-free and playable indefinitely also demonstrates that you can have plenty of success and not break your own product to do so.

    RazgrizOne,

    Totally agree but the person they’re responding to implied they were some scrappy indie production. Ex33 (there are caveats/asterisks here but still) is a much better example. I think at its peak the whole team was like 40 people with hired hands.

    msage,

    They did not, they said you can be successful without corpo overhead and bullshittery.

    RazgrizOne,

    Not to mention that studios like Larian have proven that it's entirely possible to make a blockbuster game without teams of 400 heads, changing direction and leadership every few years and laying off the people who made the product in the first place. They really seethed at that one, so many salty comments lol.

    EldritchFeminity,

    Show me on the doll where that comment said Larian is an indie developer. Saying that they lack corporate interference does not equal claiming that they’re an indie team.

    There’s this neat thing between indie devs and AAA corporate studios called AA. Big enough to fund larger projects than indie devs while being small enough to usually still be private companies that aren’t beholden to investors and therefore can take larger risks than the AAA devs are allowed, letting them make the games that they would want to play. CD Projekt RED and FromSoft both fit into this category as well, though all 3 companies are getting big enough to potentially start being considered AAA studios.

    RazgrizOne,

    Jesus you white knights need to calm down and let them respond for themselves.

    EldritchFeminity,

    Totally agree but the person they’re responding to implied they were some scrappy indie production. Ex33 (there are caveats/asterisks here but still) is a much better example. I think at its peak the whole team was like 40 people with hired hands.

    Jesus you white knights need to calm down and let them respond for themselves.

    RazgrizOne,

    …that’s not white knighting. I said they gave a bad example and provided a better one. Are you sure you know what that term means?

    Have a nice Monday dude.

    EldritchFeminity,

    And I and the other guy just said that you misunderstood the original comment. You’re the one who doubled down after the first guy.

    Me making a sarcastic comment because you doubled down on the first guy by just posting a quote of the original comment isn’t white knighting. It’s just a conversation. If that’s white knighting, then 95% of all internet communication is some form of white knighting. And I can think of much better words to describe the YouTube comments section (and I bet you can, too).

    Anyways, hope your Monday wasn’t as hot, humid, and disappointing as mine and I think everybody in this thread can agree that Larian isn’t Ubisoft or Activision, the world is a better place because of that, and the “live service industry” can go suck a big one and keep shaking in their boots.

    RazgrizOne,

    👍

    deadcream,

    Larian has six studios and over four hundreds of employees. They are not as big as Ubisoft of course, but they are still very much an AAA game studio.

    Dagnet,

    But they got that big by doing what the previous poster said

    M137,
    @M137@lemmy.world avatar

    So did many of the other big AAA devs, then they changed. You’re not making any point at all. And don’t get me wrong, what Larian has done is amazing, and the response from the rest of the AAA game studios is both hilarious and depressing, but sadly not surprising. Most AAA studios got big by doing good, they wouldn’t have gotten that big otherwise. But then either new people came in an fucked them up or the ones already there got greedy and lost touch with reality, it’s the same with many other things.

    BestBouclettes,

    History taught us that corpos would literally burn the world for a few more bucks. And by history, I mean right now.

    Honytawk,

    Businesses would bring back slavery if we let them.

    BestBouclettes,

    They don’t really need to bring it back, it’s always been there, just in other countries

    SnotFlickerman, (edited ) do games w 6* months away now. If you're on 10, do you plan to upgrade? Make the jump to Linux?
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Only semi-related: Why do they always show pictures of Gates when he hasn’t been involved in MS in a long time? Why never Satya Nadella?

    EDIT: Also, yes, related to the actual question already living Linux full time and when October rolls around probably gonna back up everything from the Windows side of my dual-boot and wipe the 1TB NVMe Windows is on to use as storage.

    HeyJoe,

    I was thinking the same thing. He will just forever be known as the guy. Maybe it will change once he dies?

    SnotFlickerman,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Maybe, he is indeed looking hella rough in this photo.

    TheHobbyist,

    Seems he’s using the same orange tan as the other orange guy haha

    capuccino, (edited )
    @capuccino@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think so. Gates’ shoes are big ones.

    SnotFlickerman,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    businessinsider.com/bill-gates-harassment-inappro…

    You’re right, it’s really hard to fill the shoes of someone who abuses their power and position to try to hook up with women.

    capuccino,
    @capuccino@lemmy.world avatar

    Well, I guess that Gates can’t fill their own shoes too

    UprisingVoltage,

    Not that hard unfortunately. I’m sure someone up to the task can fill his shoes no problem

    Lost_My_Mind,

    Didn’t work for Steve Jobs.

    kungen,

    It’s maybe some kind of circular logic, but my brain doesn’t recognize a picture of Satya Nadella = “Microsoft’s CEO” for some reason.

    victorz,

    Maybe your brain would, if it had a chance to connect the two if they posted more pictures of Satya and Microsoft in the same context…

    osaerisxero,
    @osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    Yeah, its maybe some kind of circular logic that their brain doesn't make that link

    victorz,

    It’s probably some kind of circular logic, I dunno. 🤷‍♂️

    towelie,

    I couldn’t name another Microsoft employee if a gun was to my head. but I can still vividly remember myself in 4th grade reading about Bill Gate’s mega mansion in Popular Mechanics for Kids

    omgitsaheadcrab,

    Steve Ballmer! Developers developers developers! That’s the other one I know

    Pantsofmagic,

    I’m somewhat in the same boat but I remember Mister “Developers Developers Developers” Steve Ballmer who was also immortalized by the “Ballmer Peak” XKCD. xkcd.com/323/

    pennomi,

    I could but that’s because a friend of mine works on the legacy rendering code in Excel. He has some traumatic war stories to share.

    tyler,

    Holy shit I remember that article too!

    MurrayL,

    Gabe Newell?

    Saucepain,

    He would be also be a reasonable person to include on an article citing Steam data.

    UpperBroccoli,
    Blue_Morpho,

    It’s weird how MS’s putting developers first became a joke. Back in the 80’s, companies like HP and IBM had open warehouses with coders at desks lined up like factory workers. MS was the first big company to give a private office to every programmer.

    MurrayL,

    The approach isn’t what became a joke, it was the absolutely unhinged way in which it was presented in that famous Ballmer stage appearance.

    Blue_Morpho,

    Oh sure, it was crazy. But the sentiment behind it was good. It’s like how Howard Dean got dunked on for his scream.

    pycorax,

    I’d take that any day over the unhinged AI focus from all these companies now or Google’s awful documentation from the past few years.

    nyctre,

    I’m here, so I’m more likely to know who that is or what he looks like. But I don’t. I do now because you mentioned him and I looked up how he looks like. Your average Joe is gonna be even less likely to know who that is or what he looks like. So I’m guessing that’s why. Some CEOs just avoid the spotlight. Or maybe I’ve just been avoiding MS news, dunno

    tauren,

    It’s a vicious cycle. The media don’t use Satya Nadella’s name or picture much, so people don’t know who he is or how he looks like.

    b_tr3e,
    @b_tr3e@feddit.org avatar

    Because he set the general, evil directions for MS. Like keeping users uninformed and locked in, smearing the competition, sabotaging open standards, taking your control over your hardware and data away from users, etc. All happened during evil Bill’s reign.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Not to mention the many deals with hardware manufacturers in order to avoid competing OSs to have any chance. They managed to kill BeOS and dominate the Japanese market in the 90s

    RampantParanoia2365,

    I was wondering why Bill Gates would be talking about Steam users.

    NRay7882,

    Optics or marketing, it’s the same reason LLMs are all called AI.

    Wooki,

    Under his watch they did form the anti-opensource and EEE mantra

    TabbsTheBat, do games w Pop it in your calendars
    @TabbsTheBat@pawb.social avatar

    It’s a canon event for any game company that achieves moderate success

    daniskarma,

    Kerbal Space Program 2 still hurts me.

    nuko147,
    @nuko147@lemmy.world avatar

    Although Kerbal space program 2 had major issues from the dev team, only for the publisher to pull the plug because of how bad the progress was, and leave the game in permanent early access.

    sp3ctr4l,

    Uh, its more like a new publisher bought the IP, functionally fired almost all of the original dev team, and then hired a bunch of other people who had no idea how their insanely modified version of Unity worked…

    And then the idiot in charge just started spamming out extremely grand and difficult to implement new core functionalities… with a team of mostly newbies who had no idea how anything worked.

    So, basically, they started out where KSP started out… and would very obviously thus need years and years and years to get it out of Early Access / Alpha state… but it needed to make money NOW, and it didn’t, so everyone got laid off (other than the idiot in charge), and the game was functionally abandoned, but not totally abandoned, because MY IP MINE NO YOU CANT HAVE IT!!!

    Or… maybe not? With regard to the IP rights?

    Nobody seems to know who actually owns the KSP IP at this point.

    techdriveplay.com/…/kerbal-space-program-2-a-tale…

    ByteJunk,
    @ByteJunk@lemmy.world avatar

    I never understood the fixation on IPs. For a kick ass universe with amazing lore etc, ok sure.

    I mean I love Jeb and the gang as much as the next guy, but they’re not core to my enjoyment of KSP1. The mechanics were.

    sp3ctr4l,

    lol, RIP Jebs 1 - 48395.

    But uh yeah, the… the lore is basically:

    We made some cute little dudes and dudettes that are… possibly animated, sapient fungi? Or something?

    Anyway they are sm0l and live in sm0l solar system.

    And they have a space program.

    And most of the characters are just obvious cutesy knock offs of famous humans in spaceflight.

    Woo!

    lol

    AwesomeLowlander,

    Name recognition sells stuff. Somebody who loved KSP 1 will probably give KSP 3 a go, at least to a greater probability than an unrelated game in the same genre.

    sp3ctr4l,

    Dean Hall and RocketWorkz of uh DayZ fame/infamy… are working on Kitten Space Agency… I dunno, maybe they could pull it off?

    Dean’s track record is really hit and miss imo, but hey, at least they actually give a damn and try, often with pretty bold / niche concepts.

    AwesomeLowlander,

    Hopefully! My comment wasn’t aimed at KSP / KSA though, just talking about why IP is valuable

    cynar,

    It was even worse than that.

    They were basically given the KSP1 codebase and told to rewrite it to be better. However, KSP1 was still being developed, and they didn’t want to demotivate the KSP1 team. Therefore they were banned from even telling them it existed, let alone ask for help or advice with the existing codebase.

    EldritchFeminity,

    One of the original goals for KSP2 was the use of a new engine to get rid of the technical debt from the first game that caused issues like the Kraken…but then the publisher forced them to use the KSP engine because “it would speed up development.”

    It was doomed from the beginning.

    sp3ctr4l,

    Yep.

    Having worked in software dev and db management professionally, and having been modding (as in making mods) all kinds of games for even longer… yep, I knew it was completely fucked almost immedeately, as soon as it was:

    Throw out most of the old dev team

    We are gonna rebuild the engine/game from the ground up

    Add in vastly complex features and capabilities at the same time

    On a horrendously unrealistic timeframe.

    Normally, any two of those is extreme danger zone.

    Cornelius_Wangenheim,

    Hopefully Kitten Space Agency ends up being a true spiritual sequel.

    pennomi,

    Except ConcernedApe, apparently.

    TabbsTheBat,
    @TabbsTheBat@pawb.social avatar

    Individual devs seem to generally manage better I think :3. It’s once the companies expand is that stuff starts going awry

    brucethemoose, (edited )

    Coffee Stain’s another good example on the bigger end.

    It does seem like there’s a danger zone behind a certain size threshold. It makes me worry for Warhorse (the KCD2 dev), which plans to expand beyond 250.

    wolframhydroxide,

    I dunno, dwarf fortress seems to be doing alright for itself so far. Tarn and Zach really needed some more help and some graphic design backup. I don’t agree with the total abandonment of the keybindings system in favor of mouse clicks, but I understand that it was necessary to make the game’s learning curve less precipitous.

    pory,
    @pory@lemmy.world avatar

    Didn’t sell out to a company or publisher with shareholder profit motives. Truly independent (not “indie” as slang for low budget) development teams don’t follow this pattern unless they sell their IP and studio outright.

    RizzRustbolt,

    Or the Terraria team.

    kautau,

    It’s a canon event for any game company that achieves moderate success gets acquired by investors

    Very much not exclusive to the game industry

    TabbsTheBat,
    @TabbsTheBat@pawb.social avatar

    True :3

    I just said game to stay on topic tbh

    kautau,

    Makes sense, wasn’t untrue and I wasn’t criticizing, just wanted to make sure everyone remembers that the problem goes up the chain due to capitalism.

    Various companies/games were mentioned in the comments, but I think a good example is Hello Games. Clearly fumbled their game launch and were over ambitious with No Man’s Sky.

    But it’s gotten an incredible amount of things that were promised, and many things that weren’t, all as free updates. Sure, they’re still making money, that’s the point, but instead of Micro-transactions, overpriced DLC, fucking over the devs, shutting things down, they just keep rolling. I’m sure they’ve gotten offers of acquisition that were probably very lucrative, but they didn’t take them, and have continued their slow roll of making gamers happy.

    shialac,

    Rip ZA/UM

    Duamerthrax,

    I think Croteam has been able to have moderate success over the years, but being based in Eastern Europe might make them insulated from issues. Devolver only recently bought them, but they seem to be one of the few good publishers. I at least didn’t see their name on the Video Games Europe member list that’s opposed to SKGs.

    burntbacon,

    It would make sense for it to be canon in the subnautica universe. I think they were pretty much the epitome of authors with an anvil with the references to economics and governing.

    Decq, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

    This is just pure fabricated bullshit. They themselves started limiting options. Remember the old days where you could host your own server with basically any game? They took that away, not us. So they themselves are 100% responsible for this ‘uprising’. Besides they could just provide/open-source the backend and disable drm. Hardly any work at all.

    But of course it’s not about that. They just try to hide behind this ‘limits options’ argument. But they simply don’t want you to be able to play their old games. They want you to buy their latest CoD 42.

    SheeEttin,

    Let’s be real, open sourcing it isn’t “hardly any work”. All the code has to be reviewed to make sure they can legally release it, no third-party proprietary stuff.

    Wizard_Pope,
    @Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh but with the new rules they could do that before making their code work that way. The idea is not for the new laws to apply retroactively but for new games.

    Jeffool,
    @Jeffool@lemmy.world avatar

    I think your response is coming off as kinda “oh just do it different”. But that still means an entire industry of people are going to have to change how they make things. (And still spend time and money evaluating things at the end, just to be sure nothing slipped through.) I’m in favor of this at least being looked at and honest conversations happening, (which will not happen without this.) But there will certainly be an adjustment period where people on ground level learn and develop new “best practices”. And invariably someone will screw up. The companies are obviously only worried about money. They’ll get over it, is my opinion. But I think it’s worth communicating that we all understand new government regulation is likely going to be a pain in the ass. We just think it’s worth the pain/money. And that’s open sourcing or just creating a new mode for offline play in everything.

    AtariDump,

    But that still means an entire industry of people are going to have to change how they make things.

    Companies do that all the time in response to government regulation. You like seat belts and backup cameras in your car? No sawdust in your food? Transparent pricing when buying internet access? Government regulation. None of those companies went out of business.

    Jeffool,
    @Jeffool@lemmy.world avatar

    This is exactly why I said:

    But I think it’s worth communicating that we all understand new government regulation is likely going to be a pain in the ass. We just think it’s worth the pain/money.

    spankmonkey,
    @spankmonkey@lemmy.world avatar

    When starting a new game, don’t include that stuff. Not including proprietary stuff without meeting the licensing requirements is already a step in the process.

    SheeEttin,

    “That stuff” is often core to the game. Any anti-cheat library, for example. On the client site, libraries like physx, bink video, and others are all proprietary and must be replaced and tested before it can be released in a working state. Few companies would release a non-functional game and let reviewers drag them through the mud for it.

    Sconrad122,

    So you’re telling me that this could disrupt the anti-cheat industry, which is currently responsible for a lot of the Windows platform lock in the gaming industry and is tied to a lot of potential security vulnerabilities because it goes to a much higher level of privilege than a reasonable user would expect a game to need? I already wish I was in the right geographic area to sign, you don’t need to sell me on it twice!

    mang0,

    Anti-cheat is a necessary evil for competitive online games. No one wants to play a game against cheaters since they typically have an unfair advantage. If you can’t combat cheating then you might as well not make the game since no one will want to play it. Fine by me since I don’t care for such games but I could imagine people who like playing them might prefer to play against as few cheaters as possible. What are the alternatives?

    AngryCommieKender,

    EvE Online doesn’t use root access anticheat software. I know it doesn’t because it runs on Linux just fine. That particular player base is the worst hive of scum and villainy that you’ll find outside of government. Clearly the anticheat software isn’t as essential as game studios would have you believe. The only major cheating I’m aware of in EvE was the BoB scandal, and that involved Devs cheating because they were Devs.

    mang0,

    Can the EvE online method be applied to dissimilar games like e.g. fps games?

    AngryCommieKender,

    No clue, I just know that it exists and seems to work with the scammiest scammers that ever scammed

    CeeBee_Eh,

    Anti-cheat is a necessary evil for competitive online games

    Client-side anti-cheat is useless. It’s not a necessary evil, it’s just evil. The minute the cheater/hacker has direct access to the system, you’ve already lost.

    mang0,

    Much like every form of security measure, the intention is not to completely eliminate the possibility of an attack (which is impossible in most cases). Instead, the intention is to increase the amount of effort that’s required to make an attack.

    CeeBee_Eh,

    What you’re referring to is deterrence, and it doesn’t apply to online gaming the way it does to theft of property. One cheater doesn’t ruin the game for one other person, they ruin the game for dozens or hundreds of other players.

    And the efficacy being so bad is the reason why client-side anti-cheat keeps getting more and more invasive to the point of being literally, by definition, a type of malware and system rootkit. And yet it’s still not enough to defeat cheaters, because the cheaters have full access to the system itself.

    And the guys writing the cheat software just have to put in the effort once to defeat the anti-cheat and then they sell it to people who install it like any other software. The cheaters who use the cheats have it easy.

    mang0,

    What you’re referring to is deterrence, and it doesn’t apply to online gaming the way it does to theft of property. One cheater doesn’t ruin the game for one other person, they ruin the game for dozens or hundreds of other players.

    Why are you comparing theft to game hacking out of nowhere? Did you accidentally reply to the wrong person?

    And the efficacy being so bad…

    Source?

    full access to the system itself.

    What do you mean by system in “full access to the system”? Too vague to even say anything about.

    And the guys writing the cheat software just have to put in the effort once to defeat the anti-cheat and then they sell it to people who install it like any other software. The cheaters who use the cheats have it easy.

    The potential guys that can write the cheat software and how quickly it can be developed is the part that matters. Much like when it’s easy to use an exploit once it’s already discovered. Someone still has to discover the exploit.

    CeeBee_Eh,

    Why are you comparing theft to game hacking out of nowhere?

    You made the comparison: “Much like every security system”

    Source?

    It’s out there, my dude. It’s a constant complaint in literally every competitive online game. If people are complaining about it, then it’s not working well enough. This isn’t an esoteric thought either. You ask anyone if cheating is a big issue in online gaming and anyone with knowledge about it will tell you it’s a constant problem that’s getting worse.

    What do you mean by system in “full access to the system”?

    If you own the hardware and have admin/root access to the OS. Then it’s yours and you have “full access” to everything. And I do mean everything. You can modify the OS. You can read the values of protected parts of memory. And so on.

    If you don’t understand what I mean by “full access to the system” in the context of anti-cheat running on your own hardware, then there’s nothing I can say in a short comment to get you up to speed.

    Someone still has to discover the exploit.

    The cheat and anti-cheat battle is a constant cat and mouse game. The advantage is always with the cheaters because they outnumber the developers 100:1 at the least. Plus they have the will and determination to find ways around anti-cheats. In fact, building security against exploits is by far way harder than finding exploits.

    The reality is that client-side anti-cheat is a losing battle.

    Ziglin,

    So just don’t let them join/kick them from your server?

    mang0,

    Before you can do that, you need to determine whether someone is cheating. This is the purpose of anti-cheat software.

    Ziglin,

    Do you have spies behind you when playing cards too?

    dovahking,

    Battlefield and cod have cheaters running rampant in their official servers despite using anti cheats. They could employ a team to monitor cheating reported by players. But clearly they just don’t want to expend resources to combat that.

    spankmonkey,
    @spankmonkey@lemmy.world avatar

    None of those things will be affected because this isn’t about making games open source. It is about making games that have a design that allows them to potentially function indefinitely instead of allowing the companies to design them with planned obsolescence like tying single player games to server verification.

    Bravo,

    This is why code should be written to be library-agnostic. Or, rather, libraries should be written to a particular open source interface standard to make library agnosticism easier.

    truthfultemporarily,

    There is a reason it’s included though. Stuff like fmod, bink video etc. does complicated things that you otherwise need to implement yourself.

    spankmonkey,
    @spankmonkey@lemmy.world avatar

    When the law passes, the owners of proprietary functionality will adapt their licensing to meet the requirrments or go out of business when everyone stops using them.

    truthfultemporarily,

    Look I get it. The planet is dying, income inequality, it seems everything is unfair and going to shit. People yearn at an opportunity to help make things better. But yelling for simple solutions is the opposite of helpful. Because there are no simple solutions.

    Saying to “just open source it” does not make sense.

    What do you do about:

    • proprietary codecs
    • proprietary software that just does not exist as open source
    • the fact you need a copy of the game engine to actually build the game from sources
    • assets that have been bought on asset stores. Do the people who make those for a living not have a right to continue to make a living?

    Making single player games without always online DRM: yes totally doable

    Running game servers of online games forever: not really doable, as soon as all the libraries etc. they depend on are unsupported they will shut down one way or another. You need staff basically forever. Not even mentioning the maintenance headache that every legacy system always turns into.

    Letting people run their own dedicated servers: sometimes doable, depends on the game though. Some games do not have “a server” but a whole infrastructure of stuff, look at foxhole. Some “servers” are a house of cards barely held together by duct tape.

    This initiative all comes down to the definition of “reasonable”. What is reasonable, actually? Running an infrastructure at a loss until bankruptcy? Or just keeping it online until it starts making a loss.

    spankmonkey,
    @spankmonkey@lemmy.world avatar

    This has nothing to do with open source.

    Nothing.

    Open source has zero relevance.

    None whatsoever.

    Nada.

    Their licensing will change so that it doesn’t restrict keeping the game alive after servers go down or their license can’t be used to kill an otherwise functional game. That’s it.

    Games will be designed to include the ability to do private servers after the company servers go down. It will be a cost of development just like anything else they are required to do. If they don’t want to include that, then they can choose not to make an online game.

    Decq,

    That’s why i also said provide, not just open source. They can release a binary.

    SlartyBartFast,

    Maybe they should have made sure their code was fully legal to use before releasing the game initially

    wizardbeard,

    What? There’s a big difference between “legal to sell as a compiled binary” and “legal to release as source”.

    SlartyBartFast,

    Just saying, if my highschool programming classes are any indicator, there’s a ton of released binaries out there that use copywritten and otherwise plaigarized code

    SheeEttin,

    And that’s one of the big reasons companies don’t even think about open-sourcing their code.

    cecilkorik,
    @cecilkorik@lemmy.ca avatar

    It will be hardly any work once a law passes, because they’ll make sure it is. Everyone knows where the proprietary code is. It doesn’t just get merged in “by accident” unless you are a really shit developer (and to be fair some are).

    Besides, no one is saying they have to open source it. To be honest, the outcome from this petition that I would most like to see is simply a blanket indemnity to the community attempting to revive, continue and improve the software from that point forward. If the law says that it’s legal once a software is shut down, for the community to figure out a way to make it work again and make it their own, and puts no further responsibilities on the “rights holder” at all, I think that honestly solves the problem in 99% of cases. It would be nice if they gave the community a hand, released what they could, and tried not to be shit about it, (and I know some of them will be shit about it, but we’re pretty resourceful), as long as they’re not trying to sue every attempt into oblivion I think we’ll make a lot of progress on game preservation and make the gaming world a much better place.

    SheeEttin,

    Everyone knows where the proprietary code is. It doesn’t just get merged in “by accident” unless you are a really shit developer (and to be fair some are).

    Heh. You are still overestimating the average developer. Random code gets copy-pasted into files without attribution all the time. One guy might know, but if he gets moved to a different team, the new guy has no idea. That can be a ticking legal time-bomb.

    Jakeroxs,

    Again, if you know going in that is an absolute requirement, processes can be put in place to ensure things like that doesn’t happen. (at least not as often) vs what you’re thinking of trying to do it after the game is already shipped.

    pupbiru,

    honestly with online only games i’d be “okay” (not that it’d be great but okay) with them just releasing a bunch of internal docs around the spec. you’re right that open sourcing commercial code is actually non-trivial (though perhaps if they went in knowing this would have to be the outcome then maybe they’d plan better for it), but giving the community the resources to recreate the experience i think is a valid direction

    SheeEttin,

    Bold of you to assume such spec or docs exist. Usually it’s all cowboyed and tightly coupled, with no planning for reuse.

    spankmonkey,
    @spankmonkey@lemmy.world avatar

    Cool, so after they are legally required to then they will start creating the documentation.

    The point is making them change how they do things when how they do it is shitty for consumers.

    SaharaMaleikuhm,

    It’s just one possible solution. They can just release a proprietary server application instead.

    roguetrick,

    I’m speaking from ignorance but isn’t the server backend often licensed and they couldn’t release it if they wanted, even as binaries? Granted, going forward they’d have to make those considerations before they accept restrictive licenses in core parts of their game. And the market for those licenses will change accordingly. So there core of your argument is correct.

    Dunstabzugshaubitze,
    @Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.org avatar

    lots of licensed or bought code in development in general, but knowing that you’ll have to provide code to the public eventually, means that you’ll have to take this into consideration when starting a project.

    SheeEttin,

    Which is doable, but is additional time and money.

    Dunstabzugshaubitze,
    @Dunstabzugshaubitze@feddit.org avatar

    codifying in law that your customers must be able to run a server for your game, when you stop running them has the consequence, that you’ll have to buy licenses that allow you to give binaries or code for those things to your customers. every middleware or library that does not allow that won’t be a viable product anymore. It’s not more dev work, it will change how licensing in game development for middleware and such will be done.

    BassTurd,

    Why would coding something with less restrictions take more time and money?

    SheeEttin,

    It doesn’t, that’s why companies rarely open-source their code. If you want to publish it you have to make sure you have all the rights to do so, you have to code in a way that’s readable for outside users, you have to make sure people can reproduce your build process, and ideally you provide support.

    On the other hand, if you’re not developing the source for publication, you can leave undocumented dirty hacks, only have to make sure it builds on your machine, and include third-party proprietary code wherever you want. That’s faster and cheaper, so naturally companies will prefer it.

    BassTurd,

    There’s no requirement that the open source code released after EoL has to be pretty or maintained, just functional to meet legal requirements. Using other 3rd party code would be a hurdle to get over I suppose. It would definitely take a different approach to design, but after the initial shock of changing, it wouldn’t be more difficult to do long term.

    wizardbeard,

    Because you can buy other people’s code for cheaper than developing it yourself, as long as you use it within the restrictions of the license you paid for.

    BassTurd,

    The thing is either that license model changes, or those other companies selling the code cease to exist when nobody buys something they can’t use.

    Honytawk,

    Making games online is also additional time and money.

    SheeEttin,

    Yes, but that’s immediately profitable, which is why so many companies do it.

    Decq,

    Maybe so, but that’s a decision they make. Surely I as customer shouldn’t be taken away what i paid for because of that? And if so they should have mentioned clearly upon sale that they would take away my product after 3-4 years (though maybe that’s the case in those dense ToS?) . Everything else should be considered illegal and fraudulent if they planned/knew it from the start. Which is the case if it’s a licensing issue

    Besides, I’m pretty sure after those 4 years the code is outdated and they could renegotiate the license to be more open to release a binary.

    FreeLikeGNU,

    I remember the “old days”. That was when dialup internet was still popular and running a server usually meant it was on your 10Mb LAN. When we got DSL it was better and you could serve outside your LAN. This was also the time when games had dark red code booklets, required having a physical CD inserted or weirdly formatted floppies (sometimes a combination of these). You could get around these things and many groups of people worked hard at providing these workarounds. Today, many of these games are only playable and only still exist because of the thankless work these groups did. As it was and as it is has not changed. Many groups of people are still keeping games playable despite the “war” that corporations wage on them (and by proxy on us). Ironically, now that there is such a thing as “classic games” and people are nostalgic for what brought them joy in the past, business has leapt at this as a marketing opportunity. What makes that ironic? These business are re-selling the versions of games with the circumvention patches that the community made to make their games playable so long ago. The patches that publishers had such a big problem with and sought to eradicate. This is because the original code no longer exists and the un-patched games will not run at all on modern hardware and the copy-protections will not tolerate a virtual machine. Nothing has changed.

    We can even go back as far as when people first started making books or maps that had deliberate errors so that they could track when their work was redistributed. Do the people referencing these books or maps benefit from these errors?

    Why do some of us feel compelled to limit knowledge even at the cost of corrupting that knowledge for those we intend it for (and for those long after who wish to learn from historical knowledge)?

    dustyData, do games w Ubisofts stock tanked this morning ahead of the markets opening

    I hate graphs that don’t start the Y axis at zero.

    That said, fuck ubisoft.

    saddlebag,

    Agreed. Took me a moment to realise they didn’t drop to zero. !dataisugly

    AlijahTheMediocre,

    Who’s to say we can’t drop them to zero :)

    echodot,

    A stock would never drop to zero because the company would be liquidated before that happened. If the stock actually dropped to zero they would have no money they need to call bankruptcy before that point.

    JackbyDev,

    You need to include the instance in the community name.

    huginn,

    That’s pretty normal for financial charts like this though.

    dustyData,

    And it’s dumb. It says all you need to know about the ethical integrity of most economists. Lying for profit.

    echodot,

    The axes are clearly labeled so I’m not really quite sure what the concern is.

    dustyData,

    deleted_by_moderator

  • Loading...
  • Kraven_the_Hunter,

    Y.y…y…you do know what the plural of ‘axis’ is, right?

    For as much as you’re showing what you don’t know in this thread, I still can’t believe you don’t know this one.

    echodot,

    Are you being paid by someone to be especially stupid today, or is this your normal level of comprehension? I hope so because right now you seem like this the sort of person that would find stairs confusing.

    Dremor,
    @Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

    Unless you are not just sarcastic:

    dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/axes

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    Jesus fuck no, it’s a valid graph. It shows the relative trend over time and the sudden change. It may show less of a change if it was zero based, but a drastic change that is well off the normal trend is important to visualize. Also like, all exchanges have a toggle to flip to the zero based.

    dustyData,

    Look at this thread and realize that it’s just a lie. You can show the exact same information with a starting at zero graph, but won’t be able to push the “stock is tanking!” panic point. Publishers and marketers do this on purpose to manipulate headlines. This is why the stock market is mostly just high stakes gambling. No one involved is making rational decisions, just moving from panic to mania like psychotic patients.

    protist,

    You can see right there at the top of the graph it’s down 20% in the given timeframe. There are ways to make graphs misleading, but there’s nothing misleading at all about zooming in on the data in this chart

    dustyData,

    Percentages are also misleading. The timeframe will always stretch the percentage. Sure, a 20% drop on the same day is significant, but it still says absolutely nothing about the overall situation, nor why it happened. It is a significantly smaller drop when compared to their year long performance, and a significantly larger loss if only the last month is taken into account. There’s research on this, observing day to day changes on stock prices to describe a company is just as effective as describing people’s personalities through astrology. It’s bullshit.

    protist,

    Sure, a 20% drop on the same day is significant

    Yes, and that’s literally all this post is trying to convey. This post is not a news report or a economist’s dissertation, this is a screenshot of the pre-bell stock price posted to Lemmy

    dustyData,

    It’s already being called the lowest price in a decade. Technically true, but honestly disingenuous since the massive price bump to over €100 was an anomaly caused by the pandemic that swept the entire industry, not just this one publisher. Also drivel to generate engagement. Just like this post, here we are discussing it, despite the fact that it is misleading and poor characterization of the entire picture.

    Kraven_the_Hunter,

    It sounds like you really need to buy some Ubisoft stock right now.

    dustyData,

    I will repeat, and I can stress enough with this reiteration, fuck Ubisoft.

    protist,

    It being at its lowest price in a decade is literally true. I don’t have a clue why you’re bringing the pandemic into this since this stock reached its peak in 2018. Ubisoft stock has been on a precipitous decline for 4 straight years now, wtf are you even trying to convey here?

    chris,
    @chris@l.roofo.cc avatar

    If you are not in for the dividents or the voting privileges stocks are always a game of “I hope someone is dumb enough to pay more than me for these shares”.

    intensely_human,

    Or someone else is in it for those things.

    Markets aren’t based on one party being dumber than the other one. Markets work because different people value different things.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    The stock is tanking. 20% is a huge drop for any massive company. Do you know how much money disappeared overnight because of this? From my very rough calculations, Ubisoft just lost about 300 million dollars because of this drop. That’s more than any fine they’ve had.

    The worst day in Stock Market history was Black Thursday, the beginning of the Great Recession. The market only dropped 11% that day. (Somebody call me out if I got those numbers slightly wrong, that’s from Wikipedia). These are massive numbers, that I don’t think you fully appreciate or understand. The stock market usually deals in single digit or more likely fractional amounts of change. Double digit changes are a huge deal.

    dustyData, (edited )

    Do you know how much money disappeared overnight because of this?

    I do know, none. Not a single cent disappeared. Because stocks aren’t liquidity. That money was never there in the first place. Some paid some money to get those stocks, that money was real and it entered the company’s liquidity. Then they spent it on something. Those stocks are but the promise of paying some dividends, some time in the future or giving some power inside the company. Their virtual fluctuations of price over time are nothing but smoke and mirrors, people exchanging virtual titles over those rights like little kids trading collectible cards. Some people cashed out for a low price (that was already grossly overinflated from the pandemic days, so they probably still made bank) and it pushed an already correcting stock to accelerate for today. That money didn’t come from the company, it was exchanged entirely by third parties, public traders. Ubisoft didn’t participate at all in whatever pushed the price drop. No matter how much I want it to, Ubisoft is not in any more danger today than it was in yesterday. They are still filthy rich, if anything the biggest danger for this is that it gives them lee way to layoff another group of underpaid developers or gut another studio to appease the stockholders. Who are already in a frenzy for blood because Outlaws didn’t make all the money.

    If you were to compare Ubisoft today to Ubisoft 2 years ago, you would see they dropped nearly 93%. Dear golly, how is this poor boutique family company in business after such a massive loss? /s

    intensely_human,

    Ubisoft just lost about 300 million dollars because of this drop.

    So they have 300 million dollars less to spend? They’re going to fire 300 million dollars worth of talent? Their bank account changed by 300 million dollars?

    No, they did not lose 300 million dollars.

    yannic,

    I’d argue it doesn’t accurately show the relative value at a cursory glance. The chart shows the area under the curve having decreased over 90%, but when looking at the y-axis, you can see that initial assessment was misled.

    In a speculative industry like finance, shouldn’t we try our best to make charts less… alarmist?

    cheddar,
    @cheddar@programming.dev avatar

    And that’s why I can’t take online activists seriously. 100% of agenda, 0% of brain.

    intensely_human,

    I totally agree man. This graph is misleading.

    ArtVandelay,
    @ArtVandelay@lemmy.world avatar

    If you are trying to show year-over-year profit and you have $100 million give or take a few thousand, then starting your y-axis at zero is going to be a pretty worthless graph

    Grandwolf319, (edited )

    It’s unfortunately standard with all stock graphs :/

    Croquette,

    There is no point of starting the chart to 0 since it doesn’t give any information other than the share price, which is already communicated by the Y axis anyways.

    navi, do gaming w Rant: Valve's new Steam Deck screws speak volumes about their ethos.
    @navi@lemmy.tespia.org avatar

    Less of a rant, more of a rave.

    Cool upgrade for hobbiests.

    key,
    @key@lemmy.keychat.org avatar

    Ya from the title I expected OP to be complaining because they don’t own a torx head screwdriver/bit.

    WalrusDragonOnABike,

    Was expecting the same and I didn't even know they switched to torx. Philips screws are bad. I go out of my way and spend extra money to avoid them.

    helenslunch,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Whoops. Unintentional clickbait.

    Exec,
    @Exec@pawb.social avatar

    Me, as one who only read the first line before scrolling to the comments, good thing that others pointed out about the topic itself

    Redhotkurt,
    @Redhotkurt@kbin.social avatar
    helenslunch,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Are rants inherently negative?

    Perfide,

    By definition, no, but most people probably assume negativity when they hear the word rant.

    theangriestbird,

    rant /rănt/ intransitive verb

    1. To speak or write in an angry or emotionally charged manner; rave.
    2. To express at length a complaint or negative opinion.
    helenslunch,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    My b

    Tlaloc_Temporal,
    @Tlaloc_Temporal@lemmy.ca avatar

    Nah, definition 1 right there isn’t inherently negative. It’s certainly more involved than otherwise necessary and seems somewhat driven by emotion, so while it skips the negative connotation I think this counts plenty well.

    helenslunch,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    I think of a rant more as a long-winded statement that most people would agree with. Sort of a “off my chest” kinda thing.

    SomethingBurger, do games w The EU initiative for Stop Killing Games has reached the goal of 1 million signatures!!

    If you’re in the EU, you should still sign; extra signatures will be useful if it turns out some of them are invalid.

    Wizard_Pope,
    @Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah I signet 10 months ago. Also put the link in the post

    Tetsuo,

    To be clear… If you have already signed, thank you but do not sign again.

    (I know that’s not what you wanted to say, I just want to make sure it’s not misunderstood).

    MrScottyTay,

    Does it not stop you from signing multiple times? The UK one tells you you’ve already signed it when you try again. I tried it again recently in case i was misremembering signing the second petition after the first one was misunderstood completely by the uk government.

    kuhli,

    Wait, what happened with the first one?

    Burnedspaghetti,

    Parliament disbanded iirc

    Armok_the_bunny,

    After giving such a bad answer to it that some other part of the government stepped in and said the answer was dramatically insufficient.

    echodot,

    I’m not surprised it got a bad answer though. The government was completely dysfunctional by that point (and had been well over a year), I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just some random civil servant who was just told to weave a fig leaf at it.

    zerofk,

    Oddly, the EU one just has a checkbox that you need to check to confirm that you haven’t signed before. I’m guessing removal of duplicates happens only after closing, along with other data validation.

    I thought this strange at first too, but I think it’s because of the disparate identification methods in different countries. If everyone had a digital ID card instant checking would be doable, but note it probably isn’t.

    MrScottyTay,

    For the UK one it’s just tied to your email address to prevent duplicates, and you just input your name and physical address which will be used to confirm you’re actually a citizen.

    Opisek,

    That’s not true. It depends on the country. In certain countries it will tell you if your identification number had been used before.

    zerofk,

    Interesting! I tried from a country that has an eID so it should be trivial to weed out duplicates, yet I got that checkbox.

    Opisek,

    Maybe it’s a self report feature >.<

    SavinDWhales,

    I signed with my eID, which went fine, but then the website asked me to log in with my EU account, which I didn’t have.

    Now, did I sign or didn’t I? 🤔

    SomethingBurger,

    You should have received an email with a receipt if you did sign. In doubt, sign again; signing twice will invalidate the second signature but not the first (confirmed by EU staff).

    Lost_My_Mind, (edited ) do games w Anyone else suddenly itching to blast Nazis in Wolfenstein for no reason at all?

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/84b39537-b9b0-4e85-b87b-8137dda4dd18.jpeg

    I’d LOVE to hear the explaination from the 1 downvote.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    4 explanations are needed now.

    Excrubulent,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    “Nazi” x5

    There’s all the explanation you need.

    Pips,

    7 Nazis right now.

    colderr,

    27 now

    zergtoshi,

    You expect Nazis and their sympathizers to have a brain and form coherent sentences, huh?
    I fear, there are at least some who do and those are even more dangerous than the typical braindead Nazi.

    B312, (edited )

    Playing devil’s advocate here. It’s probably people who think no matter what, every single life is precious and should be preserved.

    Edit: I feel like I should probably add that I do not agree with this ideology whatsoever. Facists deserve a good beating

    damnedfurry,

    It’s probably people who think no matter what, every single life is precious and should be preserved.

    I doubt it’s that, simply because the OP is not talking about doing anything to anyone in the real world.

    ipkpjersi,

    6 of them now lol crazy there are that many.

    kipo,
    damnedfurry, (edited )

    The type of ‘anger management’ described in the OP is unhealthy and doesn’t even help you feel better, short or long term. ‘Blowing off steam’/venting literally does the opposite of what most people believe it does.

    scientificamerican.com/…/feeling-angry-chilling-o…

    Edit: Looks like some people don’t like being called out for their unproductive behavior, lol. I answered the question.

    It’s getting harder and harder each day to tell this place apart from Reddit, lol.

    Elevator7009sAlt, (edited )

    I don’t think they are trying to decrease/cool down their anger. I think they are trying to engage in it.

    I’ll be honest, as long as people are not acting awful towards their fellow human beings (like taking out anger on a person who has nothing to do with it, punching someone over cutting in line at the bank) I do not particularly mind if people are increasing their anger and aggression instead of decreasing it. Jogging it out and getting angrier is still far better than punching it out at a person, especially since you probably still reap the health benefit of jogging.

    Thanks for the link though, fun read! I guess we should go to bed angry ;) Clicking one of the links in the article you linked was pretty interesting…

    One man in the rumination group became so angry while hitting the punching bag that he also punched a hole in the laboratory wall.

    My concerned side worries for that guy and the budgets of the people doing the research but most of me says “that’s just funny”.

    Elevator7009sAlt, (edited )

    Genuinely? I think there are always a couple trolls downvoting anything and everything, or people who can’t resist being contrarian for the sake of it. I see downvotes applied to on-topic, factually correct, and completely uncontroversial posts and comments all the time. For example, go to any cute animal community. You’ll find various inoffensive pictures of the animals, with zero incorrect assertions because it is literally just a picture, and at least a few of these pictures of critters the entire community is about (so it’s on-topic) will have a few downvotes anyways. Same principle could apply here. If there are lots of upvotes I almost expect to see a few downvotes as “noise” from trolls.

    Also because Lemmy has Local and All, maybe there are people who, not caring that the community is Games, see this in their Local/All feed and do not like video games or Wolfenstein so they just hit downvote for “dislike” and move on.

    Sometimes I fat-finger my phone and downvote something I didn’t mean to. I always take it back, but I imagine not everyone would undo their accidental downvote. Especially if the sequence is downvote -> crash -> reopen tabs -> wait where was I, whatever I don’t care enough to undo one downvote online

    Hyphlosion,

    I’ve also downvoted things on accident before. Not yet on Lemmy because I have to more deliberately choose through Voyager. But it’s only a matter of time.

    SomethingBurger, do games w Animal Crossing: Pocket Camp will end service in Nov 28 - but will transition to a paid offline app

    They will turn off the live service and make it work offline?

    I don’t understand. Industry bootlickers told me it was impossible and would cost billions to implement, hurting small indie studios the most. Yet, Nintendo does it voluntarily with seemingly no difficulties.

    smeg,

    Nintendo refuse to ever be predictable

    LiveLM,

    You don’t get it bro, Nintendo decimated half of their net worth pulling off this miracle!!! ^^^/ ^^^s

    JusticeForPorygon,
    @JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t worry they’ll do a C&D sometime soon to make up for it

    mp3,
    @mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

    Nintendo doing something good consumer-wise for once and not being a dick? I’m conflicted.

    Piemanding,

    I would argue Nintendo does do a lot of pro-consumer stuff. Like making actually good games. It’s just their anti-consumer stuff is either so bad or just plain weird that we just scratch our heads and think Nintendo is going off the deep end. Still trying to avoid buying much Nintendo going forward.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Making a good game is the minimum expectation. Making an open platform to force competition to also endorse open platforms would be going above and beyond to be pro consumer.

    Defaced,

    You really have no idea how intellectual property works do you? The reason they’ve gone after emulation and rom hosting sites is pretty obvious, they have to protect their IP.

    Why they’ve waited so long only to do it now? I honestly don’t have an answer for you on that one, but if I were to guess it’s because retro gaming has been going through somewhat of a renaissance as of late due to shitty AAA games and indie devs gaining so much popularity.

    The bottom line is Nintendo lost the emulation battle once, and they don’t want to lose a second time. They’re more experienced and understand the risks of letting emulation replace services like Nintendo switch online, and so do publishers that own intellectual property from retro consoles. It sucks, but that’s corporate life, and you can’t really get around it without jumping through hoops or doing something illegal.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Your comment is very out of place as a response to mine, but since you brought all this up:

    I don’t begrudge Nintendo for getting ROM sites shut down. I begrudge them for shutting them down without also making their games legally available for purchase where their customers want to play them. Those old games aren’t even legally available for purchase at all, because they want to just rent them to you forever, which is an enormous dick move. Then they further that with the dick move of trying to remove the place where we get those games the way we’d like to enjoy them, and getting them that way is a better experience than using their official solution.

    So assuming you didn’t get lost and you actually meant to respond to my comment, I can’t consider them pro consumer when they’re not doing what’s in the consumer’s best interests.

    KinkOnlyKink,

    Nintendo might be seeing the writing on the wall and looking to see how much profit they can make with this. If it goes well, we might see more of it. Corporations hate regulation and sometimes try and head it off long before it is coming.

    ImplyingImplications,

    Hi, industry bootlicker here! Nintendo is listening to their consumers. I was told corporations are evil and won’t listen to consumers and must be forced to do things by law. I much prefer consumers remain vocal about their wants because corporations do indeed listen. No government intervention required. I worry government rules could cause unintended problems that don’t benefit anybody.

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    “A single company does this and while the other 99 won’t, saying pretty please will certainly work. See? No intervention required!”

    Bootlicker indeed.

    ImplyingImplications,

    Who are the 99 other companies? Which games have they taken away?

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar
    ImplyingImplications,

    Oh no! Not Microsoft Bingo! That’s a list of D list games nobody has ever heard of that all shutdown years ago. I don’t think the world would be a better place if the devs of Radical Heights, a free to play arena shooter that was launched and shutdown a month later in 2018 were forced to give their game out to everyone for free after.

    nekusoul, (edited )
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    Hello, sole arbiter of a game’s worth.

    Of course not every game is a certified banger, but there’s more than enough notable games on that list that made an impact on the industry and should’ve been preserved for that fact alone.

    ImplyingImplications,

    You didn’t create those games. Games are products people work to produce. Radical Heights was a free to play game that was shutdown in a month. What would you force them to do? Release their server code for free so anybody can run a Radical Heights server that people can connect to and play? So a whole bunch of people who never gave the developers a cent have the right to demand the game be given to them simply because it existed for 1 month?

    nekusoul, (edited )
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    If a game asks for money in any kind of way: Yes. That should be the cost of (trying to do) business.
    Alternatively, a full refund for everyone involved, even Kickstarter backers, would also be acceptable.

    ImplyingImplications,

    The cost of trying to do business? They made a product and nobody paid so now they have to give it away for free because they’re the greedy ones?

    nekusoul, (edited )
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    nobody paid

    That’s just blatantly false. People bought the founders pack were never refunded for example. Those people being entitled to the server software or a refund is anything but greedy, even if that only applies to a single person.

    ImplyingImplications,

    So the devs give all the founders an empty map they can run around offline in and that fixes everything? The game hasn’t been killed? It’s been saved?

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    If they can play against bots, which already exist in the game, or band enough people together with access to the game to play on a server one player is able to host, then yes. That’s what I’d expect at a minimum.

    ImplyingImplications,

    How would access be enforced to only paying customers? That would require a server which the company is shutting down

    nekusoul, (edited )
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    If they want to keep some form of DRM then that’s not my job to figure out. This wasn’t a problem back in the day when server software being distributed was the norm, so it shouldn’t be a problem now.

    Though personally I’d be in favor of abolishing online DRM entirely, but that’s another story.

    ImplyingImplications,

    that’s not my job to figure out.

    So you want people to follow a law without knowing how it should be followed? You signed a petition and now it’s someone else’s problem if they get in legal trouble or not? This makes the world a better place because it protects theoretical people?

    nekusoul, (edited )
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    At least try to make an effort to understand what I write.

    I said it’s their job to figure out how to do DRM -if- they want DRM. If they can’t figure out how to do that then the answer shouldn’t need to be spelled out explicitly: No DRM. Simple as that.

    If you’d rather see games you spent money on being taken away from you based on the whims of corporations, just to make sure others who might not have payed for it also can’t play it, then I don’t know what to tell you.

    ImplyingImplications,

    Control of the server is the DRM. Radical Heights sold hats for $15. How do they ensure only players who paid for hats get them and that non-paying players couldn’t just mod them in? They control that information on the server. Which accounts have cosmetics is controlled by the server. That’s the DRM. If they had to release the server when shutting down then they’d have no way to ensure only paying customers play the game since the person who runs the sever can modify it however they want. Everyone could get the $15 hats for free! Or maybe they charge $2 for the hats. There’s no DRM that could prevent this because control of the server is itself the DRM.

    So a dev is being required by law to give out their game without any DRM meaning anyone can play it for free and even give themselves the cosmetics the original devs were using to pay the salaries of the dev team. I worry very much that this would cause companies to stop producing free to play games or charge a subscription for these types of games instead (since subscription based games would be exempt). I wonder why people would risk this to “save” games like Radical Heights which, in all likelihood, would have no community. A game doesn’t shutdown after 1 month because it has a thriving community

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    Yes, you’re just explaining regular piracy here. I do not care. It’s a thing that’s already been possible for almost every single-player game in existence, and yet, there’s a constant stream of new single-player games releasing every day. Weird, right?

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    When I buy a product, I expect it to continue to work unless I break it myself.

    ImplyingImplications,

    What about Free to Play games? Can they be shutdown?

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    I have no authority over anything, so yes, they can. What I’d like to see is an option to buy an offline copy of the game and any add-ons I bought, but no one does that. What Stop Killing Games is looking for is for the server to be made available after the game’s end of life so that you can continue to use anything you paid for.

    Trainguyrom,

    Looks like some of those are games that were cancelled, some were online multiplayer games that had the servers shutdown, some were simply removed from the Microsoft Store and some were single player games with always online DRM for which they shut the servers down. So it’s not all super scummy nonsense

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    Taking away a game you bought because the game was intentionally made to rely on a server is always scummy behavior. That’s the whole point.

    Trainguyrom,

    If it’s a game like an MMO (which several on that list are) they’d have to publish the server software in order to avoid fully killing the game. And to publish the server software that was only ever expected to run in their own datacenters they’d then have to publish documentation, dependencies, etc. and this is all assuming that it can be contained in a single installer for a single machine without relying on additional services they host, and assuming it has reasonable system requirements for average users to self host.

    That’s also assuming playing an MMO alone/with only 1-2 people doesn’t suck. Play some 2009scape single player without adventure bots. It feels lonely as all heck

    Plus there’s all of the legal and PR hurdles to ensure you’re not exposing yourself to undue risk.

    Basically a million reasons for a company to not spend a thousand work hours ensuring their crappy MMO (I’ve tried out a couple of the listed MMOs, they were unsuccessful for a reason) can continue to be played after they’ve divested from it

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Licenses and middleware can be chosen more proactively to preserve and distribute the server if they know during development that it’s a requirement. There are tons of people who functionally play MMOs single player already, when the server is already running. And I play a 12 year old fighting game that’s easily able to coordinate 20-100 people to play it multiple times per week with nothing but Discord; there’s no doubt in my mind you’d be able to get 40 people together for a raid on a private server.

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    The other answer from @ampseandrew already covers most points, so I’ll just a few things:

    • Most game servers out there are already built in a way to allow for easy deployment. After all, devs have to have way to test changes, so being able to run a small server locally for debugging purposes is hugely beneficial to development.
    • I also can’t imagine that there’s any game server out there that shouldn’t be able to run on a single system. The heaviest one game I can imagine is Minecraft, due to the whole open world terrain generation, world streaming and physics calculations, and even that can be run off a Raspberry Pi for a small number of players.
    ieatpillowtags,

    With the possible exception of games that were canceled, those are all examples of super scummy nonsense.

    Dudewitbow,

    i mean iirc capcom already had done something similar beforehand with megaman x dive

    boolean, do gaming w The Steam Deck is changing how normies think of gaming PCs.
    @boolean@kbin.social avatar

    I don't love the pejorative "normies".

    some_guy,
    @some_guy@kbin.social avatar

    It’s cringe af and totally reinforces the “gamer” stereotype. We can do better.

    GammaGames,

    IMO it’s up there with calling people npcs

    metaStatic,

    it's way up there with using 'cringe' unironically

    acastcandream, (edited )

    Meh cringe can be effective as a descriptor, but it’s cringe to call people cringe as a personal attack. I’ve described situations as very “cringe-inducing.”

    TwilightVulpine,

    Cringe is a thing, but it's way too common that people use their own self-consciousness as an excuse to try to shame people who are just enjoying themselves on their own corner.

    acastcandream,

    Most definitely. I’m more distinguishing it from calling someone an NPC, which has no valid use  other than to dismiss or denigrate.

    acastcandream,

    NPC’s is worse to be honest. It’s generally used to attack people’s social/political values and call them “sheeple” without using the term. Normie is gross but it’s mainly just dismissive and having too high an opinion of one’s own taste/interests.

    Ultimately it’s cringe as hell to say either lol

    NightOwl,

    Maybe there should be a contest to see who can come up with the most cringe worthy label.

    acastcandream,

    “Classical liberal.”

    The most absurd thing I’ve seen conservatives in the US try to co-opt.

    Die4Ever,
    @Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

    Normie is gross but it’s mainly just dismissive and having too high an opinion of one’s own taste/interests.

    Really? I always thought it was supposed to be self deprecating, like saying “people who aren’t fucking weirdos like myself”

    GammaGames,

    I can see how it probably started that way, but once incels co-opt a term it makes it harder to use

    snowbell,
    @snowbell@beehaw.org avatar

    Since when has normies been an incel thing?

    GammaGames,

    At least five years… I think? This wiki page doesn’t have much of a date

    snowbell,
    @snowbell@beehaw.org avatar

    I see, never heard of it used like that before.

    Makeshift,

    really “normie” is a normie term now, ever since Wednesday on Netflix became a pop culture phenomenon. I’ve heard people in real life use this term

    SkepticElliptic,

    NPCs is ten times worse because it is used to dehumanize people you don’t agree with, further alienates you away from normal society and pushes you deeper into cult like thinking.

    loops,

    Unless referring to oneself. [me]

    chaorace,
    @chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    We can do better.

    I’m guessing “wrong-sider” would be a step in the wrong direction?

    GBU_28,

    Referring to any hobby group as “we” is cringe.

    some_guy,
    @some_guy@kbin.social avatar

    What hobby group was I referring to exactly?

    Because I don’t think gamers are a hobby group any more than tv watchers are a hobby group.

    Or do you think maybe I meant “we” as a collective for the people in this thread?

    🤔

    Wanderer,

    “We can do better” or worse “X do better” is more cringe.

    It’s just everyone judging everyone like they are worthless. Maybe people want to be part of the group maybe they have an identity with hardcore gamers. They don’t need to do better that’s their right.

    Tigbitties,
    @Tigbitties@kbin.social avatar

    I downright hate it.

    TimTheEnchanter, (edited )

    Me either. I’m a “normie,” I guess, and it feels unwelcoming and condescending.

    alyaza,
    @alyaza@beehaw.org avatar

    it’s definitely a weird term but in more than a few contexts (mostly very online contexts) i’ve found it to be the only suitable terminology because there’s just nothing else which most of the people i talk to will “get” otherwise–it’d be nice to have something a little bit less embarrassing to work with, to be honest lol

    can,

    there’s just nothing else which most of the people i talk to will “get”

    The group here may be different from most of the people you talk to.

    Try:

    “the average person”

    Or (mostly joking) “allistic”?

    alyaza,
    @alyaza@beehaw.org avatar

    “average person” i’m afraid lacks a certain it factor–probably the ironic steeping in terminally online culture implied by even speaking it–that’s implied by using normie. i find in many of these circumstances it just seems out of place also. in a semantic sense i’m not sure “average person” maps to “normal person” either, which is another thing

    Die4Ever, (edited )
    @Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

    Yeah I’m not sure “average person” works the same… maybe “median person”? 🤣

    The 10% nerdiest people hold 90% of the nerdiness?

    But yeah I don’t think “average person” works, because it’s not a wide enough range and doesn’t include the opposite extreme end

    “non-normies” is a very small group, in this context non-normies would be the most extreme gamers. The “average people” would not include a somewhat invested gamer, and it also wouldn’t include someone who is heavily opposed to gaming, both of which would be included in “normies”.

    Limeade,

    I don’t think someone heavily opposed to gaming would be considered a normie, they would be in their own separate extremist camp also apart from the average person.

    reverendsteveii,

    lacks a certain it factor

    the it factor you’re talking about is “being a dick”

    Templa,

    As someone alternative that been active in local gothic scenes I also use “normie” to refeer to people that do not engage with subcultures. I didn’t even know it was considered pejorative until this post

    Radiant_sir_radiant,

    I just think of “normie” as the new “vanilla” - every group that uses it, uses it uses it to refer to people who are not a part of that particular group, so its meaning depends on the context but should be self-explanatory and not (necessarily) derogatory.

    As a software guy I like the word for its simplicity and ease of use.

    zuzu,

    I feel like ‘layman’ would be the perfect word here

    reverendsteveii,

    I feel like ‘layman’ would be the perfect word here

    without the artificial air of superiority

    some_guy,
    @some_guy@kbin.social avatar

    Wow.

    snowbell,
    @snowbell@beehaw.org avatar

    I cant even right now with this thread. There is nothing wrong with “normie.”

    Stovetop, do games w Oblivion remake is... really making it apparent how outdated Bethesda is in its approach to making games

    I think Bethesda has definitely fallen off in recent years, but I am a bit confused by the point this post is getting at. We learned at launch that Oblivion is a remaster, not a remake, and it’s just the original game running under the hood with a new coat of paint and some minor tweaks. And it’s a pretty high-effort remaster at that.

    I just think it’s a bad example to use of how the company isn’t getting better, when the point of the remaster was to change as little of the core game as possible. It’s as good now as it was back then but it’s still a 19-year-old game.

    Starfield is what should be killing everyone’s expectations of Elder Scrolls 6.

    MudMan, (edited )

    The remaster was also made externally, so whatever the point being made here is, it's weird twice over.

    Draegur, do games w Ubisofts stock tanked this morning ahead of the markets opening
    @Draegur@lemm.ee avatar

    Ubisoft will have to get used to people not owning their games.

    Mango,

    Womp womp

    jonesy, do games w Thank you, Thor! 🥳

    I blocked this guy from my YouTube suggestions last year after getting heaps of his videos recommended to me, and in every one he comes across as an insufferable know-it-all.

    dual_sport_dork,
    @dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

    And if you know anything about what he’s talking about, you quickly realize that in fact he does not know it all.

    Can I be a big time Twitch celebrity too if I doodle a series of completely nondescriptive boxes and link them with little lines in MS Paint as I talk?

    mic_check_one_two,

    He has literally said that the MS Paint doodles aren’t meant to be super descriptive or helpful. He started doing it in his meetings at Blizzard, because he found that any visual aid was good at keeping executives’ attention. Whenever he had to do a presentation, he’d use MS Paint every few minutes to keep them focused.

    And now he does the same with his viewers. He busts out MS Paint every few minutes, just to refocus the viewers and keep them engaged. It’s not to help with whatever he’s describing; it’s just to keep the viewers engaged, so he keeps making money off of them.

    To his credit, at least he admits this. It’s not like he’s hiding his strategy. He just does whatever will push him to the top of the algorithms and keep viewers engaged.

    RazgrizOne, (edited )

    spoiler
    sdfsdafasdf

    Lfrith, (edited )

    To his credit, at least he admits this. It’s not like he’s hiding his strategy. He just does whatever will push him to the top of the algorithms and keep viewers engaged.

    I’m sick of that excuse. The whole I’m dumb or I don’t know or it’s for the algorithm excuses people make to try and deflect criticism. Guess I’ve just seen to many people of prominence use that excuse one to many times over the years.

    mic_check_one_two,

    It’s playing the game by the rules as written. If the Game Master is upset at a player for using their own rules against them, that’s the GM’s fault. I can’t begrudge a guy manipulating a mega corporation (in this case, manipulating Google/YouTube’s algorithms) for profit. He needs viewer retention to stay at the top of the algorithm, so that’s what he’s doing.

    Lfrith,

    I’ve just heard so many of the same excuses for even scummier people over the years of always shifting the blame to justify whatever is necessary to get the bag. The excuses seem ever less convincing.

    blanket,

    I think you’re confusing ‘excuse’ for ‘reason’ here. no one is excusing his behavior, just pointing out that the reason he does it is because the system allows for this kind of behavior. we can see through the veil, but others are being hooked by it because it’s designed to keep you hooked.

    it’s the same with other charismatic always online personalities. they’re really good at spinning their bs and people keep eating it up because it sounds good.

    Lfrith,

    There’s people who will explain why it is done, and use it as an excuse why it is okay because that’s the rules of the game. Seen it way too many times from apologists. Heck the comment I responded to went about how they give this guy credit and can’t blame the guy for doing it.

    That goes from explanation to excuses once they started providing an opinion on the behaviour. So that no one is making excuses isn’t right.

    p03locke,
    @p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    This is a long-winded way of saying “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.”

    janonymous,

    The viewers aren’t the game masters, though. I honestly wouldn’t want to participate in a game where I have to retain the attention of people without giving them anything of value. I think at some point those who participate also need to take some responsibility.

    Lightor,

    It’s possible it’s not an excuse. I’m in software eng. Doodles and on the fly flow charts are made all the time. It’s much easier to follow a complex topic if you have something to point to. Especially when trying to tie together concepts, like interplay between services, timing, DB, APIs, etc.

    ggtdbz,

    To be fair, I do this at work and while I get funny looks I do get complicated ideas across better when I can provide visual aid.

    Frankly I need to improve my MS Paint skills. I need to get my mouse handwriting up to at least 70% of the Khan Academy guy’s level.

    cenzorrll,

    Pretty sure he uses a wacom

    seralth,

    Iv always been confused over why he was ever in a meeting with executives when his official job position was QA tester. Not lead, not supervisor. He was a grunt worker.

    Kolanaki,
    @Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

    Can I be a big time Twitch celebrity too if I doodle a series of completely nondescriptive boxes and link them with little lines in MS Paint as I talk?

    Definitely. Especially if you have large breasts.

    SaharaMaleikuhm,

    Do I have to be a woman also or are the breasts enough?

    Funwayguy,
    @Funwayguy@lemmy.world avatar

    The latter works better, then you can go full Lily Tino when called out and ‘attacked’ for the obvious BS.

    Kolanaki,
    @Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

    “If you’re a big fat man, I’m a titty fan, and I’d love to see yours, too!”

    Duamerthrax,

    Wings of Redemption makes it work… ok. He doesn’t make it work at all.

    Justas,
    @Justas@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It’s 2025. You can be a big tiddy vtuber no matter what you are in real life.

    Coolcoder360,

    Agree, the few videos of his that I appreciated were so rare and in every one he reminds me of that guy who is a pain to actually work with and any way other than their way is completely incorrect to them.

    janonymous,

    There are people with imposter syndrome, who you wish would say more and then there are people with overinflated self confidence, who just won’t shut up.

    shneancy,

    he also cheats in single player puzzle games

    of course there is no way to definitely prove that, which was probably an intentional tactic, but certain puzzles he “solved” in “hours” took a whole community weeks to figure out (brute force was the only way) and there’s no way he’s just happened to guess the right answer

    FartMaster69,

    It’s funny because it’s not like he’s speed running or anything, he could literally just tell chat he was cheating because the puzzle was too hard and nobody would care.

    But he has to keep up his insufferable smarter than everyone image by “solving” puzzles fast.

    Newsteinleo,

    If you think he is an insufferable know it, you have not met enough insufferable know it alls. He is look warm obnoxious at best.

    jonesy,

    I don’t know man, I thought he was insufferable then, and after watching this rundown I stand by original opinion of him being an insufferable little gremlin.

    Newsteinleo,

    Peace of life advice, don’t let other people tell you how to think, form your own opinions based on the things you value and experience.

    Thor exist, and so do a lot of people that are a lot worse. He gets at more hate than he deserve when people like Jordan Peterson exist.

    Also, you don’t have to watch his videos. You can just ignore him and move on with your life. There are better things to do with your time than to hate someone.

    pchela,

    There’s a beautiful sentence at the end of every Rare Earth video: Don’t let other people think for you, they can barely think for themselves.

    Newsteinleo,

    There is some really truth to that.

    DragonTypeWyvern,

    Oh wow you know so much about this topic and everything else!

    Newsteinleo,

    All I am saying is that i have met truly insufferable know it alls and he is not one.

    Randomgal,

    Oh the irony lmao

    Newsteinleo,

    I am not sure you know meaning of irony

    Nangijala,

    *lukewarm.

    Sorry, I’m not in this fight, but my inner grammar-nazi just couldn’t help herself.

    Newsteinleo,

    Apology exempted. Just please considered that the person you are correcting may not know English as their first language or by be struggling with dyslexia or some other issue you may know nothing about

    Nangijala, (edited )

    That’s totally fair. I’m not a native English speaker myself, but some of the English I have learned has been through corrections from friendly souls around the internet so I wanted to pay it forward. I’m not judging or attacking you as I don’t expect anyone to be perfect in any language. Not even their own. Just wanted to help out 🤗

    kadaverin0,

    I wrote him off as a prick after he practically had a narcissistic meltdown during a stream with a psychiatrist when he was told that he comes off as an arrogant pedant and needs to learn to admit when he’s wrong.

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