bin.pol.social

jonesy, do games w Thank you, Thor! 🥳

I blocked this guy from my YouTube suggestions last year after getting heaps of his videos recommended to me, and in every one he comes across as an insufferable know-it-all.

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

And if you know anything about what he’s talking about, you quickly realize that in fact he does not know it all.

Can I be a big time Twitch celebrity too if I doodle a series of completely nondescriptive boxes and link them with little lines in MS Paint as I talk?

mic_check_one_two,

He has literally said that the MS Paint doodles aren’t meant to be super descriptive or helpful. He started doing it in his meetings at Blizzard, because he found that any visual aid was good at keeping executives’ attention. Whenever he had to do a presentation, he’d use MS Paint every few minutes to keep them focused.

And now he does the same with his viewers. He busts out MS Paint every few minutes, just to refocus the viewers and keep them engaged. It’s not to help with whatever he’s describing; it’s just to keep the viewers engaged, so he keeps making money off of them.

To his credit, at least he admits this. It’s not like he’s hiding his strategy. He just does whatever will push him to the top of the algorithms and keep viewers engaged.

RazgrizOne, (edited )

spoiler
sdfsdafasdf

Lfrith, (edited )

To his credit, at least he admits this. It’s not like he’s hiding his strategy. He just does whatever will push him to the top of the algorithms and keep viewers engaged.

I’m sick of that excuse. The whole I’m dumb or I don’t know or it’s for the algorithm excuses people make to try and deflect criticism. Guess I’ve just seen to many people of prominence use that excuse one to many times over the years.

mic_check_one_two,

It’s playing the game by the rules as written. If the Game Master is upset at a player for using their own rules against them, that’s the GM’s fault. I can’t begrudge a guy manipulating a mega corporation (in this case, manipulating Google/YouTube’s algorithms) for profit. He needs viewer retention to stay at the top of the algorithm, so that’s what he’s doing.

Lfrith,

I’ve just heard so many of the same excuses for even scummier people over the years of always shifting the blame to justify whatever is necessary to get the bag. The excuses seem ever less convincing.

blanket,

I think you’re confusing ‘excuse’ for ‘reason’ here. no one is excusing his behavior, just pointing out that the reason he does it is because the system allows for this kind of behavior. we can see through the veil, but others are being hooked by it because it’s designed to keep you hooked.

it’s the same with other charismatic always online personalities. they’re really good at spinning their bs and people keep eating it up because it sounds good.

Lfrith,

There’s people who will explain why it is done, and use it as an excuse why it is okay because that’s the rules of the game. Seen it way too many times from apologists. Heck the comment I responded to went about how they give this guy credit and can’t blame the guy for doing it.

That goes from explanation to excuses once they started providing an opinion on the behaviour. So that no one is making excuses isn’t right.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

This is a long-winded way of saying “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.”

janonymous,

The viewers aren’t the game masters, though. I honestly wouldn’t want to participate in a game where I have to retain the attention of people without giving them anything of value. I think at some point those who participate also need to take some responsibility.

Lightor,

It’s possible it’s not an excuse. I’m in software eng. Doodles and on the fly flow charts are made all the time. It’s much easier to follow a complex topic if you have something to point to. Especially when trying to tie together concepts, like interplay between services, timing, DB, APIs, etc.

ggtdbz,

To be fair, I do this at work and while I get funny looks I do get complicated ideas across better when I can provide visual aid.

Frankly I need to improve my MS Paint skills. I need to get my mouse handwriting up to at least 70% of the Khan Academy guy’s level.

cenzorrll,

Pretty sure he uses a wacom

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

Can I be a big time Twitch celebrity too if I doodle a series of completely nondescriptive boxes and link them with little lines in MS Paint as I talk?

Definitely. Especially if you have large breasts.

SaharaMaleikuhm,

Do I have to be a woman also or are the breasts enough?

Funwayguy,
@Funwayguy@lemmy.world avatar

The latter works better, then you can go full Lily Tino when called out and ‘attacked’ for the obvious BS.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

“If you’re a big fat man, I’m a titty fan, and I’d love to see yours, too!”

Duamerthrax,

Wings of Redemption makes it work… ok. He doesn’t make it work at all.

Justas,
@Justas@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s 2025. You can be a big tiddy vtuber no matter what you are in real life.

Coolcoder360,

Agree, the few videos of his that I appreciated were so rare and in every one he reminds me of that guy who is a pain to actually work with and any way other than their way is completely incorrect to them.

janonymous,

There are people with imposter syndrome, who you wish would say more and then there are people with overinflated self confidence, who just won’t shut up.

shneancy,

he also cheats in single player puzzle games

of course there is no way to definitely prove that, which was probably an intentional tactic, but certain puzzles he “solved” in “hours” took a whole community weeks to figure out (brute force was the only way) and there’s no way he’s just happened to guess the right answer

FartMaster69,

It’s funny because it’s not like he’s speed running or anything, he could literally just tell chat he was cheating because the puzzle was too hard and nobody would care.

But he has to keep up his insufferable smarter than everyone image by “solving” puzzles fast.

Newsteinleo,

If you think he is an insufferable know it, you have not met enough insufferable know it alls. He is look warm obnoxious at best.

jonesy,

I don’t know man, I thought he was insufferable then, and after watching this rundown I stand by original opinion of him being an insufferable little gremlin.

Newsteinleo,

Peace of life advice, don’t let other people tell you how to think, form your own opinions based on the things you value and experience.

Thor exist, and so do a lot of people that are a lot worse. He gets at more hate than he deserve when people like Jordan Peterson exist.

Also, you don’t have to watch his videos. You can just ignore him and move on with your life. There are better things to do with your time than to hate someone.

pchela,

There’s a beautiful sentence at the end of every Rare Earth video: Don’t let other people think for you, they can barely think for themselves.

Newsteinleo,

There is some really truth to that.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Oh wow you know so much about this topic and everything else!

Newsteinleo,

All I am saying is that i have met truly insufferable know it alls and he is not one.

Randomgal,

Oh the irony lmao

Newsteinleo,

I am not sure you know meaning of irony

Nangijala,

*lukewarm.

Sorry, I’m not in this fight, but my inner grammar-nazi just couldn’t help herself.

Newsteinleo,

Apology exempted. Just please considered that the person you are correcting may not know English as their first language or by be struggling with dyslexia or some other issue you may know nothing about

Nangijala, (edited )

That’s totally fair. I’m not a native English speaker myself, but some of the English I have learned has been through corrections from friendly souls around the internet so I wanted to pay it forward. I’m not judging or attacking you as I don’t expect anyone to be perfect in any language. Not even their own. Just wanted to help out 🤗

kadaverin0,

I wrote him off as a prick after he practically had a narcissistic meltdown during a stream with a psychiatrist when he was told that he comes off as an arrogant pedant and needs to learn to admit when he’s wrong.

SalamenceFury, do games w Stop Killing Games reaches its goal of 1.4M signatures, covering the risk of valid signatures going under 1M
@SalamenceFury@lemmy.world avatar

Hope every gaming company out there is sweating buckets at this. This is a matter of consumer rights.

4am,

We don’t want them to sweat, we just want them to do the right thing by their customers

Melvin_Ferd,

The only way I see that happen is having the tools and ability to pirate any and all media like we had back in the napster days. That’s the only time I’ve ever seen these companies scared. A petition I don’t think will do much. Plus not only is there this issue. There is also the issue of groups now targeting the way funding works like on steam. Payment processes are now being used to apply pressure where certain groups do not like the content.

The solution was always to defend and protect the people who cracked and pirated content. But I think they were all locked up and threatened.

AgentRocket,

A petition I don’t think will do much.

This isn’t just any regular change.org petition, that can be ignored. It’s an official partition based on EU rules, where EU parliament is forced by law to listen to the initiators and talk about the topic, when it passes.

Melvin_Ferd,

Ok but is there any group or lobbyists who are advocating or will this just be a petition sent to them which they can just ignore.

eatyourglory,

The European Parliament legally cannot ignore it.

Signtist,
@Signtist@bookwyr.me avatar

To what extent do they have to talk about it, though? Can they address it, come to the conclusion that it's infeasible (while subtly tucking millions of dollars from game companies into their pockets), and consider the matter settled? I understand that governments are meant to keep corporations in check to benefit the people, but functionally they keep the people in check to benefit corporations and their "lobbyists" (bribes).

MisterFrog,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

These two things overlap under capitalism, as doing right by your customers is only required if not doing right by your customers affects your profits.

We definitely want them to sweat.

Korkki,

They hire like two lobbyists with 100k of splurge money and this won’t pass, for sure.

If voting or filling a petition changed anything they would make it illegal.

Melvin_Ferd,

By the way, the left could have done this for any number of issues in the past but refused to.

Like how hard would it have been if everyone who showed up to a George Floyd protest instead donated to some fund that then went to paying a lobbyist/think tank to work for them in Washington to change laws and make sure the police officers and department actually saw justice.

EncryptKeeper,

Are you a bot

Melvin_Ferd,

Are you

Korkki,

donated to some fund that then went to paying a lobbyist/think tank to work for them

It would be more effective to get a quarter of 1.4 million people organized with united demands and on the streets of Brussels with the actual risk of projecting threat violence on EU bureaucrats, then StopKillingGames or any petition or demand would have a much better chance of passing. At that point you wouldn’t even need collect any names before hand :) All the voting, all the petitions all the representation only exists to act as an filter and push the little people people and their little people idea’s far away from actual power as possible.

I’ll be positively surprised if this passes, but I really really really doubt it. Too much money at stake here just for the sake of having some pro consumer common sense.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

The EU has gotten us pro consumer common sense a number of times already, like with iPhones and the GDPR.

Melvin_Ferd,

There is no way that you believe people showing up in streets would do anything lol

That’s what the powerful hope we do. It’s the most useless action possible. It’s like trying to boil water by breathing hot air on it. You’ll get tired way before you get any boiling.

mnemonicmonkeys,

You literally couldn’t be more wrong

Melvin_Ferd,

Yea whose the president?

We’ve had more protests in the past 10 years than any other time. None of them have accomplished much of anything.

You’d be lying to say otherwise. I’m sure you’ll try to find some policy or law that was implemented that nobody listens to as proof of action.

You can’t tell me there’s a global protest like George Floyd or no Kings and the result was what?? What the fuck did any of it accomplish. Insanity to continue with the idea that protests are doing anything other than given the opportunity to arrest thought leaders and kick in the heads of everything else.

You’re literally throwing bodies against an armed and trained force that watches you all protest like referees at a hockey game before they come in and break it all up. I’ve watched countless protests where the protesters are herded like cattle into pens before getting busted up. There’s no way you can tell me honestly that the authorities aren’t in love with the idea of you all showing up against their armed and trained forces. The left is doomed. It’s not just the Democrats who do these performative actions with no results. It’s all of the left.

SalamenceFury,
@SalamenceFury@lemmy.world avatar

The EU is not swayed by this kind of thing easily.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

America brain, Its like they think everyone is in the same dystopia as them.

kadaverin0,

You know the guy who started this petition is an American, right?

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

I was under the impression that Ross Scott lived in Poland, but what does that matter its an EU and UK initiative.

kadaverin0,

Do you really not see the irony of shitting on Americans while simultaneously praising the efforts of one?

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

No, I can shit on americans in general and praise one quite easily. And besides this one got better.

kadaverin0,

Ah, so you can be a xenophobic shithead while still liking an outsider because he assimilated to your culture. Got it.

VonReposti, do games w I'm a console gamer so, Why the hate on the Epic Games Store?

Having healthy competition is a good thing and I’ve wished for a competitor to Steam for a long time until one day the monkey’s paw curled and we got Epic Game Store. To sum it up:

  • Epic actively tries to introduce exclusivity deals to PC, something that goes very much against the nature of the platform. It is something we’re supposed to be above on PC and let console players deal with. PC gamers simply don’t want fragmentation in the market. We hate all the different shitty launchers publishers are making for the same reason too.
  • Epic has a very hostile attitude towards Linux. Their anti cheat for example by default detects the mere fact of using Linux as a hack. For a long time if their anti cheat was included it was an absolute no go on Linux. Their store also works like crap on Linux, if at all.
  • EGS lacks necessities for then to call themselves a good store like reviews, good support and refund policies, ease of mod support, wishlists, etc.
  • Their UI is just plain bad.

But the main point is the first one. If they bothered making a good store they wouldn’t need to make most of PC gamers angry by introducing exclusivity deals, but they can’t be bothered to do that, so they go for hostile competition instead at the detriment of the customers.

acosmichippo, (edited )
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

Also chinese conglomerate tencent is the 2nd largest shareholder of epic (35%), after Tim Sweeney at 41%.

ozymandias117,

When they buy publishers, they had them actively remove Linux support, such as Rocket League

Harvey656,

Not to diss you, or take away from your argument, it’s quite a good one.

But I do think EGS has reviews now. They suck but I they have some sort of review system now.

Wrufieotnak,

I couldn’t find reviews. What I did find was a 5 star based rating system which is not the same thing at all. With steam reviews the text is more relevant to me than if they did or did not recommend the game.

Harvey656,

If you scroll below the stars, it has corporate reviews provided by opencritic. Which is what i confused with real reviews.

Honestly, the stars are better than ign and other craptastic critics.

Ellvix, do games w Pop it in your calendars
@Ellvix@lemmy.world avatar

And they want to add micro transactions

Zorque,

But they said they wouldn’t!

Dioxid3,

It’s Krafton. Just look at what became of PUBG. I mean it’s an OK game and a lot of QoL came to it after all these years, but there hasn’t been any major meta shift in 5 years or so. Only recently they’ve started looking into how broken certain semiauto snipers are.

Instead you are drowned in lootboxes and emotes

BuboScandiacus, do games w What's going on with Borderlands 2? Steam is giving it for free, but the game has 23% positive recent reviews.
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

Don’t just review bomb it

Report it to steam as SPYWARE, with the little flag icon on the product page

AcesFullOfKings, (edited )

deleted_by_author

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  • BuboScandiacus,
    @BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

    Steam has a history of removing things people don’t like (for example: banning ad-ridden games)

    So if all these reports can bring them to add this to their TOS, it’s worth it

    Owlboi,

    absolutely. Steam is not to mess with and takes such matters quite seriously.

    alanjaow,

    Fun fact, it’s called a parliament! I regret that I am not an owl.

    trevor, do games w GOG seems to be considering paid membership option

    Anything but properly supporting the Linux community 🤡

    How have they still not learned that the largest intersection of the people that care about their core value proposition (game preservation, DRM-free, etc.) are Linux users?? It’s not like they have to create the compatibility layers from scratch; Valve did it for them.

    If they provided a launcher for Linux users, I’d actually buy shit from them. Yes, Heroic Launcher exists, but I’m not paying GOG for the work that the Heroic dev did. I want first-party support.

    Korhaka,

    Why do you want a launcher? I have a few GoG games and I don’t really feel like a launcher is something I need.

    What I do want is games to actually update on GoG at the same time as steam, not over a week later. X4 7.0 came out and it was over a week longer for the GoG version to update, in the end I refunded and bought it on steam instead.

    stardust,

    Cloud saves, achievements, and tracking hours is something I do like. I have over a 100 GOG games, so individually managing exe files isn’t something I really want to do.

    Korhaka,

    I backup my own saves, don’t really trust someone elses computer to do as good of a job as I can myself. Wrote a script to automate it.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Do you not have to update that script every time you play a new game? Cloud saves are pretty automatic, and regardless of platform, they’ve been pretty reliable too. It also fits that use case that you go to a friend’s place and want to show them something in your save file on a whim.

    overload,

    Syncthing?

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, that’s what I use when I need it for GOG saves. But typically, every game puts their save file in a different spot, so you do need to do a one-time setup for each individual game.

    Korhaka,

    Typing backup “Game” “/path/to/files” is pretty simple though. I wouldn’t complain about cloud saves existing, but I won’t rely on them and absolutely wouldn’t pay for them.

    tauren,

    That’s great, but maybe we should stop talking about you. People pay for Steam, Netflix and many other services because they don’t want to write scripts. They want something convenient and easy to use. They also want additional functionality. You said how you back up save files, but nothing about achievements, time tracking, friends, screenshots sharing, guides, parties, etc.

    M137,
    @M137@lemmy.world avatar

    And you just ignored the rest of the reasons, and to add to those: automatic updates.

    rickyrigatoni,

    Because there is no linix client some games that use these features do not release their linux version on gog due to their company’s feature parity policies.

    metaldream,

    You don’t need to manage the exe files. Just install heroic launcher. You can access and install your whole GOG library from there, and you can configure each game with different versions of wine or proton, if you need to. It also integrates with Epic and you can easily add games to Steam as well if needed.

    You can even sync the game saves with the GOG cloud, although last time I tried the save sync was a bit clunky.

    stardust,

    Yeah I’ve used heroic launcher, but a native launcher is still preferred. I like the GOG launcher on windows.

    wizardbeard,

    I’m fairly sure the update cadence is set by the game dev/publisher, not GoG.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    They might have to grease some wheels somehow then. Some kind of incentive structure to make sure they do it.

    Cobrachicken,

    … and Steam is more important to them than GOG

    trevor,

    Because I use a Steam Deck and having a launcher for third-party stores is the easiest way to install games.

    Additionally, the reasons mentioned in the other comments.

    UnfortunateShort,

    What if I told you that the intersection between people who care and the 5% of their potential audience that are Linux users is very small either way?

    I’m not saying Linux isn’t a chance for them, but it’s also an investment and very like not a profitable one for quite a while.

    alehel,

    I’d love a gog galaxy client for Linux with proton support. I also agree though, that it probably wouldn’t help them become more profitable.

    Creat,

    You do know Heroic exists, right? It works perfectly fine.

    And I prefer an open source solution integrating multiple platforms to a single closed solution per platform.

    codexarcanum,

    What if I told you that there are roughly 4 million steamdecks in existence. Ref

    And that this is about 1\3 of the Steam Linux market. Ref and about half of the entire handheld PC market. Ref

    Of course, we dont know how many MAU GOG has so maybe 4 million new customers is baby numbers, but Steam seems enamored enough of that market segment to commit huge new UI and store features (deck verification, “Runs on Deck” filters, other deck specific stuff) including the game controller mappings which do help with non-deck also but were clearly a necessary element for handhelds. Maybe deck users, it being a committed gaming platform, spend more on games?

    Anyway, trying to get subscribers (always a teeny fraction of your free users) ahead of converting new non-customers into customers, seems like bad econ to me.

    If GOG is so hot for game preservation why not see if they can score an emulation deal to bring lost handheld titles to PC\deck? Sega might be down, NeoGeo is owned by the Saudi’s, I’m sure they’d love some free money for their back catalog. That’s in line with Lutris’ mission of being the one game launcher for your entire library. A few strategic investments and partnerships could open up GOG as the gateway to classic gaming across devices, but that would require some vision to carry through.

    UnfortunateShort,

    1/3 of the Steam + Linux market, that accounted for an incredible 1.45% of Steam installs in February. This means there were roughly 67 Windows gamers for every Linux gamer (using Steam) that month.

    So even if Linux gamers are 10 times more likely to care (and pay for) for game preservation, you are not even approaching the number of Windows users that might. Suppose 90% of Linux gamers care, while only 9% on Windows do, you still have roughly 9 Windows users for every Linux one. And this is a very generous assumption to make.

    Maybe, eventually, at some point, this makes sense financially. But if your goal is to be profitable, you grab the low hanging fruits first, not invest in maybe 10% more potential users.

    Ashtear,

    Steam’s investment in UI and store features are part of the onus of hardware platform growth. Steam isn’t just a storefront anymore. GOG has no such interest.

    I do think indicators are good for the future of Linux gaming, but it’s just not good business right now to go chasing it.

    flamingos,

    At this point they should just hire the Heroic devs, I doubt anything they could build themselves would compare in terms of quality.

    trevor,

    I’d be happy if they did and adopted Heroic as an official launcher. However, if that happens, I’d still want proper controller support to be added so that browsing the GOG store in Heroic doesn’t require mouse and keyboard bindings on something like a Steam Deck.

    kuberoot,

    It’s not like they have to create the compatibility layers from scratch; Valve did it for them.

    I do just want to point out, Valve didn’t do that - Proton is mostly just pre-existing software that they packaged together into an officially supported feature. I love that they did it, and having it in the biggest PC game platform presumably did wonders for Linux gaming, but it was most certainly not made from scratch.

    GiuEliNo,
    @GiuEliNo@feddit.it avatar

    I agree with you for the most part, but valve also is funding the developers behind the most important things out of proton. DXVK and vkd3d-proton were almost non-existent before Valve employed them.

    yesman, do games w "Concord servers are now offline. Thank you to all the freegunners who have joined us in the Concord galaxy"

    Every game executive and investor wants a Fortnight. That’s why no matter how many times gamers reject it live service games will continue to be developed. Because AAA games are made for investors not players.

    Nytefyre,

    When God of War was popular, they wanted a God of War of their own.

    When Call of Duty was popular, they wanted a Call of Duty of their own.

    When Overwatch was popular, they wanted a Overwatch of their own.

    When Fortnite was popular, everyone wants their own Fortnite.

    Rinse and repeat.

    CookieOfFortune,

    It’s not like any game is completely original anyways. They all take inspiration from games that come before, some more than others.

    nman90,

    While that is true, the issue is that they are trend chasing for a quick cash grab and put in next to no effort to make the game good or listen to consumers saying that this isn’t what we want.

    CookieOfFortune,

    I mean aren’t those just issues that any business venture has to deal with? I don’t think the game type matters per se. It’s more a problem of poor business decision making. I don’t think there’s anything fundamentally wrong with chasing trends and they certainly had the right budget. $100m+ is hardly chump change but taking 8 years really put them quite behind.

    PaulBlartFartTart,

    I think the shareholder takeover of gaming removed one big thing from the tendency to “take inspiration” from competitors, and that is developing the world and characters in order to make the clone feel unique and deep.

    caut_R,

    I wonder what all the big publishers are pushing now. A Genshin? A Palworld?

    HexadecimalSky,

    actually yes, there have been alot of games in the rpgmmo ish game like genshin and the ark / survival builder games like Palworld.

    Whenever a game becomes popular people and studios try to make thier own. Palworld is an example of one that worked (it being Ark survival evolved: pokemon editon)

    scorp,
    @scorp@lemmy.ml avatar

    expect a push of gacha games, gacha games will be considered potential money printing machines by higher executives

    yamanii,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    Genshin-likes are being very popular in the east, this year we got Wuthering Waves (which is actually much better), and 2-3 years ago we got Tower of Fantasy (which was terrible), now the same studio from ToF announced Neverness to Everness which is the same concept of an open world anime action rpg but in an urban setting, suspiciously years after Project Mugen had been announced which is has the exact same premise.

    DoctorButts,

    Oppai Succubus Academy exists. So where the fuck are all of my Oppai Succubus Academy clones?

    altima_neo,
    @altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar
    p03locke,
    @p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    There all on F95.

    MeatsOfRage, (edited )

    I mean sometimes it works. Pubg was the big Battle Royale in town until Fortnite (as a battle Royale) came along. League of Legends too. The problem with Concord is it took about 6 years to come out so it couldn’t draft on the hot trend.

    msage,

    League of Legends is a pet peeve of mine, since one bad person took down DotA forum, stole ideas from it, created LoL, and acted like a big shot. He wasn’t alone, but you know what I mean.

    To this day I think that Blizzard hates esports, because they left DotA with 0 support, and only after many years of Dota 2 they created Heroes of the Storm, which was even more watered down than LoL.

    And LoL is such a simple game, which is OK, but once you actually understand Dota, it doesn’t come anywhere close. It brought nothing innovative. Which is sad.

    Source: I played hundreds of hours, and put hundreds of dollars into LoL back in the ~2010.

    druidjaidan,

    Conceptually, LoL filled a hole. DotA was DotA, complicated, hard, lots of nuance. Some people wanted an even more complicated DotA. Heroes of Newerth filled that hole. Some people wanted a simpler DotA. LoL filled that hole.

    I personally preferred HoN, but I can’t fault people for preferring LoL.

    msage,

    I bought HoN like two weeks before it went free, and I haven’t played much.

    How was it more complicated?

    missingno,
    @missingno@fedia.io avatar

    It's not like gamers are rejecting live services as a whole, because there are still quite a lot of successful live service games. And when a live service is successful, it's really successful. So much so that it's worth it to investors to keep gambling on them, one hit can compensate for a dozen flops.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Can they stay solvent through a dozen flops when each one costs them hundreds of millions of dollars?

    MeatsOfRage,

    Usually they don’t completely flop though, they just underwhelm expectations but if they can stay active long enough with the right amount of whales and fish they can usually break even or make a small profit. Concord is just a high profile legitimate flop that was turned off before it could do anything.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

    Its trajectory was that it was going to continue to burn money. Sega didn’t even launch Hyenas because they realized they’d only lose money by letting it rock. A lot of these games chasing the live service trend are spending so much money that they need to hit hard in order to turn that profit, like Avengers, Suicide Squad, Concord, the forthcoming Marathon and Fairgame$, etc. The Finals was huge at launch, lost most of its playerbase in the next couple of months (which, btw, happens for nearly every video game ever, live service or otherwise), and because it was so expensive, it’s not looking long for this world. Compared to something like Path of Exile or Warframe or The Hunt: Showdown, that launched a leaner game at the start and scaled up responsibly, they didn’t need to be the biggest thing in the world in order for it to make financial sense.

    To be clear, I hate all of this shit, even when it’s a sound business strategy, but the risk involved in a project like Concord is visible from space, and the chances of it making up that cost are so clearly small when they’re not the first one of these to market.

    yamanii,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    This is the truth people don’t want to admit, but Final Fantasy XIV being successful carried square enix through their darkest days when everything wasn’t making a profit. Cygames using all the money they got from the granblue gacha to finance an action rpg and a fighting game, etc.

    They serve as a safety net, we lost mimimi last year, I don’t think anyone would say they made bad games, but they just didn’t sell enough so they closed.

    altima_neo,
    @altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

    Problem with trying to get a Fortnite was that Epic was wanting to get it’s own PUBG after realizing that trying to get their own Minecraft was a failed endeavor. They quickly pivoted the game formula from a Minecraft type tower defense to a battle royale game.

    Concord should have seen the writing on the wall early on and pivoted it’s game into something else thats flavor of the month.

    Riven, (edited )
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Wait wasn’t the original concept for fortnite actually a wave based tower defence game? I remember being excited for that and then battle royal happened and I lost all interest.

    altima_neo, (edited )
    @altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

    Yeah, the original trailer made it clear they were trying to go after the Minecraft style of gathering resources, building up a base and fortifying it, then defending from zombie mobs at night, like the Minecraft mobs.

    Maybe not so much the pixel/block graphics, but the ideas behind Minecraft, with an actual objective, which Minecraft lacked.

    youtu.be/hHTE5xg9E-g

    Riven,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    That reminds me of hypixel.

    2xsaiko,
    @2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    People paid for that original game too, it wasn’t free. I don’t assume they got refunded. It was basically a massive bait and switch.

    Riven,
    @Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Yea I recall it being like 20 something. That’s why I never pre-order. Without having poof I would assume they got refunded if it stopped development, it’s epic games. I do recall it did get released eventually but I had lost interest by them.

    Dublin112,

    I was a sucker and my friend convinced me to get and pay for the orginal game. I think it was only like 3-4 weeks after the game was available when they shoehorned battle royal mode in. It wasn’t long after that before they switched to free to play and gave us I think in game currency that was worth the $60 or whatever the game costed at launch. I stopped playing altogether because I paid for a co-op PvE tower defense game, not a free to play PvP battle royal game.

    ThoGot,

    Yeah the tower defense part of it was actually quite fun

    saltesc,

    You just made me realise I’m a gamer, not a Fortniter. But I probably should’ve realised that based on my Steam "years of service* and disgustingly large catalogue.

    I’m a proven guaranteed money pot, publishers! Make me something good and I give the moneys!

    ExFed,

    The challenge is that requires creativity. Creativity isn’t a stable investment.

    Viva La indie game studio!

    MisterNeon, do games w Does anyone else find it suspicious that there wasn't any criticism on here about Stop Killing Games until after it hit 1.4M signatures?
    @MisterNeon@lemmy.world avatar

    I haven’t seen anyone here against it.

    Ross got hit with some anonymous legal complaint so I wouldn’t be surprised with astroturfing.

    I’m also an American so I can’t help.

    dinckelman,

    The entire complaint was based on nothing too. They claimed he’s orchestrating some crazy financial scheme, and getting paid 6 digits from it, when he’s not only doing it for free, but can’t even participate in the initiative to begin with

    AtHeartEngineer,
    @AtHeartEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

    If he helps bump the gaming industry in a better/healthier direction, he deserves 6 figures imo

    scrubbles, do games w Starfield's first DLC is one of the worst Bethesda DLCs of all time
    !deleted6348 avatar

    Remember when Cyberpunk fucked up their release. They knew they fucked up and owed it to the gamers. They told their board and stockholders to hold off, and that they needed to rebuild trust with their users before they could make line go up.

    So they took their time, they redid many of the mechanics that people didn’t like, the fixed all of the bugs, and then they released Phantom Liberty - one of the best expansions I have ever seen in gaming history. Good enough where it could have been a game on it’s own.

    That is how you rebuild trust with the community. You tell your stockholders to shut the fuck up and let you do what you do best. If they don’t trust you to do that, then fuck em, they can sell their stock, why are they holding stock in a company they don’t trust?

    Letstakealook,

    I might need to revisit cyberpunk, I didn’t know an expansion was ever released. I kind of hit max level doing mostly side quests within 4 months of launch and lost interest.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    It’s pretty legit. It stands on it’s own, and they also improved the base game quite a bit. I’d suggest it for sure

    Letstakealook,

    I was having fun, despite the flaws at launch. I’m sure with improvements and more content it’ll be a great one to revisit.

    halcyoncmdr,
    @halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

    Phantom Liberty is a great expansion in its own right, combined with the 2.0 changes just made the entire experience better.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    Oh trust me, I had a decent time playing it. I played through it 100%, did all the side stuff, did the base building - everything. But, I still felt annoyed and bored a good chunk of the time. The game was fine. But it was only fine. I wouldn’t say it was revolutionary or anything Bethesda said, it was just… fine.

    teft,
    @teft@lemmy.world avatar

    They changed a lot, but in a good way. I had also spent a while away from the game and came back recently for the expansion. It’s really good.

    I would suggest starting a new character from scratch if you pick up the DLC. You’ll really appreciate the new changes to cyberwear that way.

    Letstakealook,

    I would definitely need a new character, nothing worse than picking up an old save and having zero clue about what’s going on in game. I think I’ll put that on my list, I really did enjoy the game at the time I played it, and I definitely got 100 hours playtime from it.

    the_post_of_tom_joad,

    I’ve had it sitting in my library, maybe it’s finally time to play it. Which is the better voice actor to pick, dude or chick?

    teft,
    @teft@lemmy.world avatar

    I prefer the male voice but the female voice is more emotive. Plus the female avatar gets a nice story with Judy.

    VindictiveJudge,
    @VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m the opposite. I prefer the fem VA, but I like Panam just a bit more than Judy.

    Dudewitbow,

    basically the major points of change was launch, then cyberpunk edgerunners clothing dlc patch (1.0 but bigs fixed). 2.0 rewrote some of the games mechanics that dropped before the expansion. and then the expansion was released (which added new endings)

    gcheliotis,

    I’m waiting for the ultimate edition that will include everything here

    pseudonaut,

    It’s REALLY good.

    dinckelman,

    Post-2.0 Cyberpunk is one of the best gaming experiences I’ve had in a long time. You can tell it’s a product of effort, and love for the project. They have taken in a considerable amount of feedback from pre-1.5.

    Meanwhile, Starfield is a complete miss in just about every way imaginable, and the expansion has followed through the same footsteps. On top of that, the studio actively gaslit people who expressed disapproval, even when it was constructive criticism.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    I fully expect them to say it’s getting “review bombed” now, which is the current industry redefining of a term to make it come off as “It’s not us, it’s the stupid gamer’s fault”

    dinckelman,

    It’s not a review bomb if it’s fully deserved. If you make a bad product, you deserve a bad review, and maybe Bethesda should have thought about that ahead of time

    intensely_human,

    Did they fix the driving?

    That was the one and only reason I gave up the game. It was amazing from the start, and then I got in a car and it was horrible, and I stopped.

    dinckelman,

    I never found that to be an issue, personally. It’s not as satisfying, as it is in other games, but i enjoyed it enough

    fushuan,

    Bad cars don’t have good maneuverability is you full press the speeding stick, I imagine that that stick is an acceleration pedal and only full press it when I don’t need to do sharp turns. I would say that cars feel maybe too real.

    Orygin,

    You playing with a controller? I always thought the driving was optimized for the controller as I can’t half press acceleration on a keyboard.
    It’s a little bit better after the updates, but it’s still suboptimal I think.

    fushuan,

    Yeah, as most 1st person view games it’s just less taxing in my hands. I agree that not being to half accelerate would feel bad, you would start drifting all the time and that would suck for control. Try using W as an acceleration button, not a “forward” button. If you see that you need to take a turn stop accelerating for a while and then S before you start turning, like with a car.

    GreyCat,

    I think they have changed the driving a bit in one of the earlier updates.
    Saw it in one of the patch notes but havn’t played myself so I couldn’t tell you what’s different about it…

    acosmichippo,
    @acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

    Cyberpunk was buggy, unoptimized, and kind of unfinished, but the fundamental game design was sound.

    Starfield on the other hand is broken at its core. The Bethesda RPG experience just does not translate to the open worlds space map they built the game on. So they can’t take the cyberpunk approach because they’d have to build an entirely different game from scratch.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    I don’t know why anyone decided that that engine was the right way to go. The number one thing that killed the game for me was the endless loading screens. Constantly. Whenever I started feeling immersed, a new loading screen would pop up and it ruined it for me. We have engines left and right that don’t need to do this anymore, but starfield, the game that’s trying to base itself to be a realistic exploration game, decided that endless loading screens were still the best way to go

    acosmichippo,
    @acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

    even without the loading screens it would still be terrible. get a quest, go to your ship, take off, travel to other system, land, exit your ship, walk to destination, reverse all that to turn the quest in, rinse and repeat. it’s just a tedious experience.

    the best part of Bethesda games is just being able to wander around aimlessly in a pretty environment, likely stumbling upon little easter eggs or side quests along the way. none of that exists in Starfield.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Reading it like that, the loop sounds straight off Diablo 1 on PSX. Get quests, head to the dungeon, loading screen, wipe the floor, loading screen, wipe next floor, back to town, loading screen, turn in.

    That kind of loop is not bad in itself, but Bethesda applied it to the wrong type of game.

    BuboScandiacus,
    @BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

    You just described mass effect

    antithetical,

    That was one of the things that really helped with the immersion for me in Witcher 3 and even Cyberpunk. You walk into a building, house, etc and the world outside just continued and was present. I’m still quite impressed with their engine and it is a bit sad that they’ll be switching to UE5 for the next Witcher.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    I know! Red engine honestly is pretty great once they got the bugs worked out, I’m sad they’re leaving it. It was extremely immersive, and there’s definitely something about it that feels different.

    Pieisawesome,

    Red engine was hitting its limits.

    UE allows them to focus on gameplay and contents over building the core engine.

    Think about cyberpunk? The engine was fine (if unoptimized) but the gameplay and contents were missing.

    UE will allow them to focus on their missing skillset

    intensely_human,

    Given the amount of the playable game that takes place on foot, they should have called it Field

    TommySoda,

    Same with No Man’s Sky. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but they buckled down and delivered on almost every promise that they failed on back at release. Not only that but every update since the game came out has been for free. Both No Man’s Sky and Cyberpunk are fantastic games, and they were garbage on release. Bethesda has been doing the opposite approach and avoiding feedback from fans since Skyrim came out the first time.

    metaStatic,
    @metaStatic@kbin.earth avatar

    Saying NMS delivered is pure copium. It has become a great game in it's own right but it's not the game we bought into at launch and never will be.

    LainTrain,

    Huh? Why not? Genuine question, I never bought in at launch

    TachyonTele,

    At launch, for me at least, it was a cool lonely scramble to survive.

    Now it’s a multiplayer game with a bunch of super easy shortcuts all over the place, even outside of the multiplayer. I enjoy playing with my friends, but the solo experience is definitely worse now.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    I never figured a reason to even bother with multiplayer in NMS, except maybe to speed up base building. The only real challenge of the game is surviving the first hour, even on hardcore/permadeath.

    TachyonTele,

    Yeah, I have the permadeath achievement. Once you get off the first planet you’re fine.
    It used to be harder for a lot longer. Now you can just teleport anywhere you want at anytime.

    ripcord,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    Thats not really an answer to their question, though.

    Also I disagree :)

    TachyonTele,

    I’m sorry if you think I didn’t give an answer. Because I did.

    ripcord, (edited )
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    You answered a question with a good answer, just not to the question they aske. They asked about the comment - “it’s not the game we bought into at launch”. They were talking about how a lot of people complained that what the game was at launch wasn’t what had been advertised - what people “bought into”.

    You seem to be explaining why it’s “not the game you bought at launch” - which is definitely a valid argument too, just to something else.

    TachyonTele,

    Ah I see. I assumed it was a typo that was supposed to be “bought it at launch”.

    But yeah “in” totally makes sense too. Thank you for pointing that out.

    LainTrain,

    Wow, looks like someone’s got a a case of the muhndays!

    ripcord,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh god, so there is absolutely nothing they can ever do to make up for it, I guess. Even after like 10+ MAJOR updates and expansions over 6+ years for free, they can’t possibly ever do enough for some people, I guess.

    TommySoda,

    I’ve never played it, so I wouldn’t know. I’m just going off friends that play it and reputation.

    net00,

    I mean, it all hinged in the fact that under all those glitches and bugged mechanics CDPR still had a nice game. Starfield can’t be salvaged cuz the core game is just mediocre shit.

    I wanna say it’s a failed IP at this point, but who knows how many copies sold. What is sure is it doesn’t deserve any more of my time. I have the DLC but won’t reinstall that garbage

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    It certainly sold a lot. Bethesda once claimed to have over 10 million players across all platforms. Even if we assume half of those were using gamepass, that’s still 5 million sales.

    Of course, if you compare it to Fallout 4’s first 6 months, with reported 12 million sales on day-one, that’s a significant letdown.

    Starfield is a very real “could have been”, if only [huge list of changes] happened.

    exu,

    I didn’t play it at the time because of the bugs, but from what I saw the good parts of Cyberpunk were already present. Stuff like storytelling, interesting characters etc.
    Starfield has none of that.

    Carighan,
    @Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

    … And still could bit fix that some keys are hardcoded. But I agree, with expansion the game was quite enjoyable.

    VelvetStorm,

    I’m still mad the monowire doesn’t work how it was said it would and that the cops can’t be bribed and shit like that. It’s a great game now and a lot of fun to play but I won’t ever trust another game company again like I did with them after they made witcher 3.

    HeavyRaptor,

    The difference is, there is no fixing Starfield, it is rotten to the core. You would have to re-do most of the story elements and writing, and the disjointed, empty world. On top of that you’d have to fix the bugs and technical limitations like the constant loading screens. At this point you would be throwing out most of the game and basically starting from scratch with a few systems done, like the ship building and possibly gunplay.

    I think cyberpunk never became what many wanted, but if you let go of your expectations, it is a good game.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    Funny thing is that shipbuilding also felt annoying to me. There were so many arbitrary restrictions that I felt like I couldn’t actually make the ship I wanted, it always felt the same

    Jarmer, (edited )

    That’s exactly how I felt too. I tried SO MANY times to build the ship I wanted. Never could get it done. I even console-command-cheated vendor stock to allow myself access to every part at my home base, and even STILL THEN I could never get it the way I wanted it. It was important to me for role-playing purposes for every crew member on board to have their own bed, and a good kitchen, living space, bathrooms, etc… Stuff that just makes sense for a spaceship that is essentially a flying house. But so many times I could never get the damn ship builder to do what I wanted. I’d change some random part, and then BAM some of my beds would disappear for no reason? Ok well now two of my crew members have nowhere to sleep. wtf.

    Just wound up abandoning my entire build and going back to the same ol ship I’d been using the whole game.

    spoilerIt’s also absolutely bizarre to me that the end-game ship, the one I had been looking forward to for SO LONG is just completely and totally 100% empty. When I had my crew members on board, they just stood still in place and stared at the wall. What the hell is going on here!??!?!?! That really ruined the entire ship for me. Could never get over that.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    Fully agree with you for that last bit (and the rest but especially your spoiler). Such a waste.

    cmhe,

    I dislike the narrative that something is “unfixable”, everything is fixable if there is a will to do so.

    I don’t know why game developers seem to have inhibitions of changing the game too much after release. For instance reworking and extending the main story in a game seems to be a big red line for them.

    For instance I would have wished in Cyberpunk 2077 to actually play Vs introduction into Night City and the individual fixers myself, instead of just watching a cut scene. A DLC could have extended the start of the game a bit.

    The same for Starfield, they could extend and improve the main story, characters and locations in an update, but seem hesitant to do so. Something like directors cut, that adds cut content as well as tons of side quests into the game.

    If people still want to play the original game, they can make the extended story optional, like sleecting what version you want to play at the game start.

    For bugs, they could work together with the community and the “unofficial patch” and engine fixer modders, instead just ignoring them. In Skyrim SSE for instance they still had many of the same bugs that Oldrim had and where fixed by thr community.

    Bethesda could improve, and even fix their games, if they would decide to do so. Their DLC just doesn’t seem to be worth what they ask for, it could have been just part of a free update, so that some more people buy the base game.

    drunkosaurus,

    they could extend and improve the main story

    I don’t think they can.

    I have a strong suspicion that truly talented writers who are able to build memorable stories in great worlds are few and far between, and those that are willing to work in the games industry of today are as rare as hen’s teeth. Most companies, including Bethesda, simply don’t have the talent at hand to fix their mess, or there wouldn’t be a mess in the first place. The truth is probably somewhere between this, and the ol’ “eh, good enough”.

    HeavyRaptor,

    I just ment you’d have to cut so much that at that point it would basically be a new game. I’m thinking a bit more from the dev point of view. Like an old rusted-to-hell car, everything is fixable. The question is cost: if you have to replace or re-fabricate every piece than you’re better off starting from scratch.

    I’m the case of Starfield, changing the core story, characters, missions, and theme is basically the same as replacing the entire car body.

    boonhet,

    On that note, how is Cyberpunk still 60 euros on Steam? I know it’s been getting better with the DLC and everything, but the game’s been out for ages.

    That said, I might have to buy Phantom Liberty. I bought and finished the base game like 2 or 3 years ago I think and I really enjoyed it even back then.

    sparky,

    It does go on sale from time to time. I picked it up on Xbox last year for 60% off if I recall correctly.

    scrubbles,
    !deleted6348 avatar

    Personally I think it’s worth it, it’s one of the few games I happily would pay full price for again. They did a full redemption arc, their game is now up there as one of my favorites of all time, next to Witcher 3 and RDR2. I think they deserve my money. What I really think is that Cyberpunk deserves 60. How the fuck can Assassin’s Creed think that they’re on the same level (or higher) than that?

    inb4_FoundTheVegan,
    @inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world avatar

    I just finished playing it for the first time and I was blown away right from the start! Guess I’m glad I waited for the polish, but the world design, voice acting and overall storyline was absolutely fantastic. I couldn’t help feel bad for all the artists that clearly put a lot of love in to the world only to be overshadowed by bugs and poor implementation.

    Varyag, do games w PlayStation product manager says ads being shown was just a bug

    Ah yes it’s always a bug after massive community backlash. If there wasn’t much, it’d have been a test, and if there wasn’t any, it was always intended.

    Donjuanme,

    Telling gamers to watch out for Hanlon’s razor would open them to too much harsh reflection of their own mistakes.

    shneancy,

    yes sure it could’ve been a bug, but can we really believe them that it was?

    companies are on a quest to pollute our lives with ads, it’s not a stretch to think it’s bullshit when another attempt to do that is being denied with “whoopsie the new guy wrote the code wrong nothing to worry about here!”

    shneancy,

    ahhh, companies copying homework from bigots’ dogwhistling tactics? what a brave new world we live in

    says something bigoted

    receives backlash

    “haha guys can’t you take a joke? everyone’s so sensitive nowadays”

    Zidane,

    Them damn wokies can’t take a joke!!!

    heavyboots,
    @heavyboots@lemmy.ml avatar

    The community backlash is the bug as far as Sony is concerned. They’re trying to work around it now…

    gsfraley,

    Yeah, too fucking late. Already canceled PS Plus.

    CatsGoMOW, do games w What's going on with Borderlands 2? Steam is giving it for free, but the game has 23% positive recent reviews.

    Doesn’t the screenshot you posted explain what’s going on?

    ch00f, do gaming w Tetris

    Not true. A few months ago, a kid played Tetris until it crashed. Technically beating the game.

    Godnroc,

    When you quit the game, you lose. When the game quits instead, you win.

    TurnOnTheSunflower,

    In Russia the game quits you.

    Catoblepas,

    Summoning Salt has a great video about it, if you have 2 hours to kill.

    KingJalopy,
    @KingJalopy@lemm.ee avatar

    I watched that video when it came out and it sent me down a rabbit hole of speed running and gaming retrospectives that was so deep I now can’t even sleep without my gaming videos. I don’t even play games and haven’t in many years but I’m so deep in the shit now even my daughter questions my watching habits wondering why I watch this stuff but don’t actually play.

    Mog_fanatic,

    Ah the ole summoning salt a roo. I feel like we’ve all been down a similar rabbit hole. I went down one with one of his many Mike Tysons punch out videos lol

    skulblaka,
    @skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I know more about Mario Kart 64 shortcuts now than at any time during when I was actually playing the game.

    Kraiden, (edited )
    @Kraiden@kbin.earth avatar

    More recently, by avoid the crash states, "rebirth" has been achieved, which is where the level overflows and wraps all the way back to level 0.

    So, true. The game is infinite unless you screw up and die

    eta: timestamped link

    answersplease77, (edited )

    No he glitched it on purpose. classic tetris game doesn’t stop. it goes forever until you lose.

    however after certain level there is specific glitch that stops the game and it’s up to you can choose to not do it and play forever, or get multiple chances to delay it few more levels then do it to glitch and crash the game. That’s as close as you can get to “beating” the game

    SubArcticTundra,
    @SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml avatar

    Fittingly, hacking the system to one’s advantage is part of the Russian mindset too.

    mriswith, do games w Pop it in your calendars

    The three people were replaced with a guy who used to work at EA. And one of their first announcements was an unprompted “we wont put loot boxes in the game”…

    ChaoticEntropy,
    @ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

    I’m not going to burn your house down, rest easy knowing that. :)

    kurcatovium,
    @kurcatovium@piefed.social avatar

    No, they won't. Because they already are there, maybe?

    Bronzebeard,

    Next week: Introducing new “reward containers”

    missingno, (edited ) do games w The Steam controller was ahead of its time
    @missingno@fedia.io avatar

    No d-pad is an instant dealbreaker.

    Edit: Y'know what I'll properly expand on this. The Steam Controller failed because it tried to replace vital functionality people expect from a controller. The Steam Deck learned from this mistake and just supplemented that functionality.

    TBH, the way I see it, the Steam Controller was designed for games I don't want to play on controller, while being bad for games I do want to play on controller.

    atomicpoet,

    That’s the key. If you’re wanting to play something like Street Fighter VI, the Steam controller probably won’t fly.

    But because I wanted to play Dungeon Siege on my TV, it works far better than a traditional controller ever could.

    For the Steam controller to work for you, you have to come in with the mentality of it replacing a keyboard-and-mouse.

    afansfw,

    They’ve made it too niche, basically just fps and rts pad. I loved mine for Rocket league but was really missing the right stick. And the shoulder buttons were super stiff. And you also absolutely had to set up controls because it was so different and the pads were atrocious replacements for dpad or sticks

    atomicpoet,

    Hey, the Steam controller is good for one other kind of game I play quite often: Diablo-style hack-'n-slash RPGs that are mouse-driven.

    afansfw,

    Ok, valid! But it’s basically same controls as rts tbh

    TurtleMelon,
    @TurtleMelon@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    For me it mostly excels in games that were designed exclusively for mouse and keyboard. Ime it’s pretty bad for fps games though, maybe if you used the gyro, but I haven’t tried that much personally. I love it for Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress, and lots of little indie games that don’t have gamepad support ootb.

    dualpad,

    It’s absolutely fantastic for FPS. I use it for games like Doom Eternal and The Finals.

    TheEntity,

    That last paragraph is on point. That’s why I have two controllers at my desk, one regular and one Steam Controller! I love playing casual Civilization or XCOM on it and it’s surprisingly great with some FromSoftware games, especially Sekiro (for no reason in particular, it just felt good and the touchpad worked without any issues).

    acosmichippo,
    @acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

    agreed to all of the above. I also found the texture on the trackpads to be quite irritating after a while.

    Goodeye8,

    Honestly, IMO the lack of D-pad was less of an issue than the lack of a second analog stick. The lack of a second stick made the controller almost impossible to use in any game that was designed with 2 sticks in mind. For example Nier Automata 9S hacking minigame was a horrible experience with the Steam controller.

    dualpad,

    One tip that could make twin stick experience better on the touchpads is to bring down the range where the joystick does max output. That makes it much more responsive over default where twin joysticks do not need small granular movement. Ramblecan has video covering it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXC2f_dD0g0

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It walked so the Steam Deck could run.

    bitjunkie,

    It has a D-pad, though…

    missingno,
    @missingno@fedia.io avatar

    Where?

    Nalivai,

    The left touch zone is pressable, and four zones are four separate buttons. It’s a bit less convenient to use than a regular d-pad, it’s bigger and you need to reach slightly further, but other than that it works.

    missingno,
    @missingno@fedia.io avatar

    That is not a d-pad. That is a touchpad with a plus drawn on it.

    Nalivai,

    It’s actually the other way around, it’s a big d-pad with touchpad capabilities plastered over it. It’s the same physical mechanism as a d-pad, 4-way button, it’s just big.

    jeeva,

    If you don’t count arbitrary clusters of buttons as a d-pad, I think this is an invalid comparison.

    Do you count, e.g., the A/B/X/Y buttons as a d-pad?

    Nalivai,

    D-pad for me, functionally, is a 4 directional buttons clustered together, oriented along the X-Y axis. To conserve parts, it’s quite often made not as 4 buttons but as a combined shifter, because you realistically wouldn’t be pressing the opposite buttons at the same time.
    The left track area on the steam controller is that. The buttons are fuzed together (which is normal for D-pad) and big and harder to tell apart (which is less normal)

    Mohamad20ZX,

    Thanks For Your Amazing Reply Missingno

    dualpad,

    If the Steam Controller was designed the way lot of people wanted it than it wouldn’t have been a Steam Controller and just another Xbox or Playstation controller and added nothing new. Would have been more successful but in the end another generic twin joystick controller. So even if it didn’t succeed it brought new things to the table like touch activated gyro and touch pads that could be considered for other controllers in the future.

    darthelmet,

    Agreed on it being a bad replacement for controller games. I got one around the time one of the FROMSOFT games came out (I think it was Sekiro?) and I tried using for that and it was just not usable for something like that. I haven’t really tried it for anything else since then because I don’t really play games away from my PC, so I don’t have a need for a worse but acceptable way to play M+KB games.

    GeneralEmergency,

    Yeah, but counter point.

    It’s got Steam branding.

    Another win for the good guys.

    otp,

    Why are Valve the good guys?

    FlexibleToast,

    Because they’ve been good guys so far. They made PC gaming so much easier and have pushed linux into the mainstream.

    Viking_Hippie,

    Because the Cult of Gaben says so.

    sugar_in_your_tea,

    Yeah, I consider them “better guys,” since they’re better than their competitors. I say this because:

    • they firmly support Linux, which was my platform of choice before Steam came to it
    • they have useful Greeks features like Steam input
    • they have a good refund policy
    GeneralEmergency,

    I was being sarcastic.

    Valve are monopolistic, popularised micro transactions, directly profit from loot boxes and gambling.

    If gamers weren’t so brainwashed and Stockholmed syndromed they would realise that.

    otp,

    Definitely needed the /s there. I’m sure you saw the 3 or so other comments who were explaining why Valve are good guys, lol

    GeneralEmergency,

    That’s why I don’t put the /s there. Always draws out the Stockholmed masses.

    dualpad,

    It didn’t fail because of a lack of a dpad but because of lack of two joysticks, but I’m glad the controller exists because I came to absolutely love the dual touchpads. And I wouldn’t trade the left touchpad a dpad, since I like using it for movement.

    I wouldn’t trade the right touchpad for a joystick either, since I like using it to do quick 180s, quick swap between 5-10 inputs to bypass reloading in games like Doom Eternal by setting a dpad modeshift on a click, and touch activate gyro all on one touchpad.

    Will probably be the last controller of its kind but I’m glad at least one did get made, since otherwise I’d still just be using a xbox or playstation controller like I did before getting Steam Controller.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

    since I like using it for movement.

    At least the basic movement from that video could easily be done with a regular joystick, it’s just the developer chose to not implement it.

    dualpad,

    It could but I prefer it over joystick because large touchpad makes it so its easier to not accidentally activate sprint on the outer edge.

    But, the biggest part is being able to use the touchpad clicks for added move sets like dash, slide, crouch. Which lot of people wouldn’t even enjoy doing with joystick click.

    sugar_in_your_tea,

    Exactly, I’d rather lose a D-Pad than a joystick, and the Steam Controller lost both. That’s why my Steam Controller sits on my desk largely unused, while my PS4 controller gets all the love (I prefer XBox controllers, but PS4 has better Linux support).

    I’d love to see the Steam Deck controller be made standalone, it’s super comfy and preserves both joysticks and the d-pad while having useful trackpads.

    dualpad,

    Sad thing is for me I don’t find the touchpads on the Deck useful, since unlike most users of the Deck I want to use them for movement and camera and quick input switching. And I haven’t found the Deck touchpads good for primary use in place of joysticks, so I end up ignoring the touchpads on the Deck for the joysticks despite using my Steam Controller for most games on the desktop.

    sugar_in_your_tea,

    I use them for point and click games and other games where a mouse is better.

    dualpad,

    I’m a controller player so it might be why I warmed up to it when it first came out, since I went from using Xbox controller on the PC to being blown away by touchpads moving as fast as a mouse without joystick speed limitation while being able to aim precisely with gyro without having to use aim assist.

    So maybe an outlier as a PC gamer who preferred gamepads to mouse and keyboard, but wanted to find an improved method of using controller without reliance on aim assist.

    sugar_in_your_tea,

    I also prefer controllers (grew up playing Halo on controller), and gyro aim is sweet, but touchpads never felt good to me. I like physical buttons for d-pad style input (even a joystick is fine), and the right touchpad felt too much like a mouse to the point where I’d rather just use a mouse.

    The Steam Deck strikes the right balance for me. The touchpads work when the mouse really is preferable, and they stay out of the way when I use the joysticks.

    dualpad,

    I like touchpads because I like being able to turn the camera as fast as I can swipe like a mouse while retaining X and Y axis control unlike stuff like the flick stick approach. And I like that I can also click up, down, left, right, center and also hold the left grip to set up chords for an additional 5 inputs for a total of 10 I can quickly change to without having to reach down to the facebuttons.

    And that’s where the Deck fell short for me because I didn’t find it good for that type of functionality I want to use the trackpads for compared to users who primarily use the sticks.

    pycorax,

    Yea the only target audience for the Steam Controller seems to be people who want to play kbm games with a controller if they’re playing on a TV or something. But I reckon most PC gamers who get a controller use it to play on their usual PC setup for games that play better on a controller, they’ll just use kbm for their kbm games.

    a_wild_mimic_appears,

    I agree that not including the D-Pad was a bad move, but if you play games that use the d-pad just for functions like map or switching of equipment, there was the option to use the trackpad like a weapon wheel where you could define i think 8 functions with OSD, and using one of the back buttons made that 16 functions you could define freely - you could replace the hotkeys of a game that used half the keyboard with this thing lol

    Nalivai,

    The touch zone is the d-pad, it’s pressable and you don’t need to do anything, just use it regularly

    a_wild_mimic_appears,

    i know that it’s configured as a D-pad by default, but it’s missing haptic feedback - there’s not enough of an indicator where on the touchpad your finger rests, and if you lose the central position, have fun finding it again without looking. i often tried it. but it’s simply inadequate as a D-pad.

    Nalivai,

    I didn’t say it was a good d-pad

    Nalivai,

    It actually has d-pad, it’s just combined with one of the touch areas, you can press it like a button, and 4 zones behave like a d-pad. Granted, it’s a bit inconvenient so if you need it often, it’s not the best. But it’s there.

    Blackmist,

    Yeah, it seemed to be for a time when controller support on PC was shit.

    T00l_shed, do games w What are your favorite games for killing nazis?

    Wolfenstien

    CodingCarpenter,

    Loved both of the newer ones. Great story and Nazi killing

    solsangraal,

    +1 for both new wolfensteins. so rare for both the action and the story in a game to be top notch

    SidewaysHighways,

    all 3 of em!

    mnemonicmonkeys,

    There is no 3rd modern Wolfenstein in Ba Sing Sei

    SidewaysHighways,

    old blood don’t count?

    lolcatnip,

    It’s a nice bonus but too short the be a full game.

    hmonkey,

    The New Order was mind-blowing when I first played it

    Blackmist,

    Honestly still is. Best FPS since HL2. Love the cutting tool.

    Katana314,

    Even setting aside all of the gore and cruel executions, BJ’s growling inner commentary is a great mood-setter for that game.

    Die4Ever,
    @Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

    Wolfenstein 2009 is underrated

    Omegamanthethird,
    @Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh, the two-pack on PSN is only $7.50 right now. I think I’ll pick it up.

    T00l_shed,

    Noice! Ya know I’ve never actually played Wolfenstein haha. But I want to!

    SolidShake,

    They’re good games.

    I_Miss_Daniel,

    I grow fat on all those chicken dinners on the original.

    madjo,

    Ach mein Leben!

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