pcgamer.com

sebinspace, do games w Cities: Skylines 2 devs warn players of performance problems: 'we have not achieved the benchmark we targeted'

Props for transparency atleast

BeanMaster,

It sucks, on one hand I’d prefer a delay so they can release what they’re happy with - but on the other this is a developer that I know and trust to continue working to make things better for a long time. For many other games this would leave a bitter taste, but for this one it’s a bit of a shrug for me.

Katana314, do gaming w Bethesda says most of Starfield's 1000+ planets are dull on purpose because 'when the astronauts went to the moon, there was nothing there' but 'they certainly weren't bored'

To give an impression of what it’s been like for me:

I had a quest where I needed Iron. I found a random planet that had it, and picked a spot in the middle of the scan readouts. Arrive, looks like a barren rock - but that’s fine because I only wanted rocks. However, I see something in the distance, and check it out. On the way, I find a wandering trader taking her alien dog for a walk, and sell some stuff weighing me down. I find a cave, where a colonist is hiding out with a respiratory infection - and am able to help them get out as a little mini-quest, though the infection spreads to me.

I come past a little mining installation, where I find a bounty hunter that tells me of a bounty nearby she’s offering to split with me. We do so, fighting a base full of raiders to get to their captain, and I finally decide to leave.

The key here is, I don’t think any of those quests are amazing - they’re likely very dynamically generated. But they’re also not fun to “seek them out” - just to come across them in some other mission, like trying to make an outpost or mining for stuff.

gringo_papi,

Sounds like work tbh

Katana314,

I mean, I can’t even argue against that. Some people find some forms of work fulfilling, and even switch to games because their own jobs don’t actually give them that feeling of fulfillment.

Monster Hunter is a prime example of a game that sets such elongated goals that it’s regarded as a “grind-heavy” game - but its players like the grind. Heck, the entire space simulator genre often involves quite a lot of “Space Truck Simulator” gameplay, where you’re just engineering good ways to ferry cargo around.

Which is not to say that’s what Starfield aims for. From what I’ve played, it’s closer to Sea of Thieves, having adventurous interruptions - where you start a boring, routine mission to bring Sugar from one merchant post to another, but then get ambushed by a skeleton ship, then a giant shark, then find a map to a buried treasure nearby.

chatokun,

Half the reason I play Elite is space trucking. I’m only raising my empire rank to get the largest ship… in order to space truck better. The Fed Corvette I plan to make a combat vessel, but the Cutter will be my space truck.

sheogorath,

I found that flow of the game works a little bit better if you just don’t fast travel at all. I played a lot of Elite and it gave me a little bit of Elite vibes when I just walk to my ship, go thru inside it and sit down. Then I take off “manually” using the button and jump to the target system by manually targeting it and press the jump button.

What Bethesda can do better is to just mask the loading with a flight animation, for example when you’re taking off from a planet the loading should be replaced by an animation where you’re going out of the atmosphere. And when you’re jumping between star systems, the loading should be replaced by something similar to Elite when we’re jumping through the witch space.

All in all, my experience with Starfield has been fine. I loved the weird stuff happening when you’re just fucking around. Although the main quest has taken a step back with their sense of urgency, compare it to previous Bethesda games, where there’s a big stake going on that pushes you to at least complete the main quest once. In Starfield there’s no such sense of urgency.

It seems like Bethesda is leaning heavy on their sandbox side, just letting people go around and do stuff.

With optimized settings from the HUB YouTube channel, my FPS never went below 60.

glimse,

Sounds like play lol I mean it’s a game about exploring

If exploration isn’t fun to you, that’s ok. There’s plenty of games out there that are more linear.

tormeh,

Yeah, but since it’s dynamically generated it’s likely the 10th time you see those quests.

Fraylor,

Yeah I literally do all of this stuff near daily in my 9-5 bounty hunting job.

thanks_shakey_snake,

That sounds pretty fun, actually!

avater, do games w [PCGamer] Helldivers 2 is the least I've felt pressured to spend money on a game in years, so of course I'm buying everything in the store
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

nope. game is good, but i’m not interested in the ingame store.

dlpkl,

You can find supercredits on missions. I’ve unlocked the premium battlepass and bought some armor without spending a dime of real money.

avater, (edited )
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I know, still not interested in any battlepasses, never was. I usually quit as soon as any game start their “Season of the…” crap and return to my evergreen Guild Wars 2.

I also got me a decent looking outfit already and the stats fit my playstyle, so I’m pretty much playing the game for fun now with no interest in any additional unlocks besides stratagems and ship upgrades.

Lol the downvotes…

dlpkl,

Ah I get you. Just so you know, the battlepasses are more like level unlocks than typical battlepasses, but you probably know that. Also, old battlepasses that you didn’t finish or even start will stay in the game permanently, so don’t feel like there’s a rush to finish them.

Tedrow,
@Tedrow@lemmy.world avatar

You are not using war bonds? I’m very confused. This is how you unlock more gear and you don’t have to pay for anything.

Also all of their war bond passes stay with you forever, you don’t have to finish them before season is over or whatever.

avater, (edited )
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Im using warbonds, just not the premium stuff since nothing there I desire and I don’t search the map for that currency.

Tedrow,
@Tedrow@lemmy.world avatar

Ah ok. I was worried that you were locking yourself out of the progression system. That makes sense.

ChicoSuave,

Premium currency is freely available on missions and it’s not hard to accrue enough to make frequent buys in the money store without spending a cent. The problem becomes the amount of time I spend in game, which doesn’t feel like a problem.

Sheeple, do gaming w MSI demos a monitor that gives you an AI helping hand in League of Legends and it might stretch the boundaries of what's considered fair
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

Just give me a fucking normal monitor without spyware

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b59b6994-9d5b-4d37-a628-e32d2133233e.jpeg

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not like they’ve stopped selling those. This is interesting on a philosophical level though.

This would be clearly illegal as a software. But what if the hardware includes it? How do you even detect that?

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

You don't detect it (at least not very well), and cheat hardware isn't new.

stevehobbes,

Where my game genie lovers at.

ParetoOptimalDev,

This pushes games further toward kernel level software that has complete control over your computer so it can scan your hardware to make sure you aren’t using a cheating tool like this monitor.

Chickenslippers,

The funniest part is league of legends literally added kernel level anticheat today with the new season.

ParetoOptimalDev,

Yeah, I really want to be wrong here…

adrian783,

change game making philosophy obviously. but this is not going to be widespread enough to be a concern probably.

BlanK0,

Literally me 😂😂

Rosco, do games w A heroic Starfield modder just straight-up deleted those repetitive temple 'puzzles' from the game

So you need to remove entire gameplay segments in order to make this crap somewhat enjoyable? Jesus.

BruceTwarzen,

Someone had to fix their horrible UI on day one.

lemmyvore,

Are you new to Bethesda games or it has just been a while? 🙂

I remember starting Skyrim for the first time and making it as far as the character selection screen (well, after spending a few hours fixing the no-voices bug) at which point I went wtf is this crap and went looking for mods.

amio,

Maybe I was just less jaded in 2011 but was Skyrim ever this bad? I even enjoyed Fallout 4 - you know... for what it is.

lemmyvore,

The original vanilla Skyrim was pretty terrible. Don’t get me wrong it was playable but it was a very forgettable and unimpressive game. The low quality assets, the bugs, the half-assed talent trees, the uninspired and unfinished quest lines, the dumb AI, the barren ugly towns and landscapes etc. Just think about all the things you have to fix nowadays with mods to play it properly, nevermind adding new stuff.

explodicle,

The lack of spellmaking was absolutely heartbreaking for fans of the series.

BumpingFuglies,

Incorrect. Vanilla, unmodded Skyrim is one of the best games of all time, despite the issues. Mods just bring it from a 9/10 to an 11/10.

See? I can voice my opinions as if they’re objective fact, too.

lemmyvore,

But it is facts In talking about. Nobody in their right mind will pretend there weren’t bugs, or that the quests or talent trees or crafting or alchemy were well made, or that the AI was good etc.

All you’re saying is that you liked the game in spite of all that — either that or you can’t even remember how bad it was before the mods.

Skyrim’s greatest virtue will always be how moddable it is. But that still doesn’t mean that Bethesda put out a great game in 2011.

BumpingFuglies,

Nobody’s said the game was flawless, but I, at least, never experienced any bugs or design issues that detracted from the overall incredible experience.

Nobody in their right mind will pretend there weren’t bugs, or that the quests or talent trees or crafting or alchemy were well made

You’re conflating facts with opinion. I thought the quests and perk trees were, for the most part, very well made.

Endorkend,
@Endorkend@kbin.social avatar

I was hit with the bouncy horse bug the very first time I booted up Skyrim.

Blamemeta,

Dima’s Memories comes to mind

GentlemanLoser,

Someone yesterday said they don’t buy Bethesda games because they’re good at launch, instead they buy them because the modding community is so prolific.

Paying $60-70 for a game that requires teams of unpaid volunteers to make it playable after launch.

I bet Bethesda LOVES that guy.

Zoot_,

This is why I bought it really. I never expected it to be good. But always enjoy what the community can do.

Iapar,

But doesn’t the mods take time? So buying it on a sale later would be better because it is cheaper then and has more content/the content you want?

Zoot_,

Mods exist now and have since day one. They’ve already made the game much better, but you are right they arent great yet cause they dont have the GECK. I do like to have a sort of “vanilla” playthrough before super mods. I didn’t clarify that.

ChronosWing,

Some of the QOL mods out are great. Loving the UI mods for inventory.

Aermis,

Yeah kinda. I bought it to play the stock game with a few tweaks. But when creation kit comes out I’ll be back. And then again. And again.

People have thousands of hours into skyrim. You think that game has more than 100 hours of content? It’s years of going back and enjoying mods and the community surrounding them.

Yeah Bethesda profits off it. But you’d be surprised how many people pirated the game, eventually just buying the “goty” edition on sale.

Seasm0ke,

Tbf vanilla Skyrim had more than 100 hours of content, just not story driven. Back when it came out I played well over that on PS3 in a single save with no mods. I explored every dragon shrine and collected all the priest masks in that playthrough. I did loot every damm vase though and inventory mgmt was slow. I got crafting up to 100 naturally, etc. Then made new characters eventually. Im sure I spent more than 300 hours over the years before I went to PC and installed mods

Aermis,

Fair enough. You know what I was trying to say. I’m over 130 hours right now on my first playthrough on starfield with no story mods just ui

dukepontus,

Modders generally only make mods for games that they are enthausiastic for. Its not a given that Starfield will have a modding scene on par with Skyrim.

Zoot_,

No, not a given you are right. But regardless whether its on par with skyrim I’m interested in what they do the same way I was with fallout 4 despite not thinking that game was particularly good myself.

dan1101,

I’ve had 130 hours of fun, still tons to do, and have no idea what temples are. I think I already got my money’s worth.

If temples are needlessly tedious I wouldn’t hesitate to mod them out.

Draedron,

How did you get around how empty the game is? I played a few hours but it is just so empty. Being in a city just means either quick travelling or walking through 100s of meters without any interesting npc or anything at all. I felt skyrim did it much better.

Cethin,

Most people have talked about how empty things are by talking about the planets. I feel like that part feels too full if anything. They aren’t empty enough to give it character. The same goes for almost every other locations. They’re so full of junk that they’re empty of character.

dan1101,

I played hundreds of hours of Elite Dangerous, Starfield is crowded by comparison. The universe is mostly empty and I don’t mind that in a game.

ChronosWing,

Do what? Anytime I’ve walked through a new city I immediately get bogged down with side quests from every other NPC.

Ataraxia,

I am waiting for official mod support to make it into a real game. There are so many awesome mods and I’ve tried a few but I’m too lazy to manually install them. Also I’m so not going to go through the storyline amount 9 times…

Tranus,

Factorio has a mod manager built in. It can browse, download, install mods all right there. It even syncs mods to save files and checks for updates. Factorio mods have better support than most games do. I really wish some other developers would put that kind of effort into mods. Just think of what, say, Minecraft could be if it had that.

Cethin,

Likewise the Paradox launcher has pretty good mod support. I think you have to add mods externally, but you can create profiles and things where one profile could be for The World of Darkness games and another could be for Game of Thrones, or whatever. You can easily swap between them without any trouble.

Cethin,

Many of them can be installed using Vortex Mod Manager from Nexus mods. It helps. Still, the mods can only do so much until mod tools release.

theragu40,

Somewhere in the vast chasm between “these are the best gameplay element ever conceived” and “this crap cannot be enjoyable with these left in” lies the actual description of their impact for a normal person.

They are perhaps marginally tedious. It bothered one modder enough that he modded them out with a mod that has about 7600 unique downloads. It bothered millions of others so little that they…just played the game anyway.

deweydecibel, (edited ) do games w Stellaris gets a DLC about AI that features AI-created voices, director insists it's 'ethical' and 'we're pretty good at exploring dystopian sci-fi and don't want to end up there ourselves'

The technology was created to replace voice actors. That’s the actual purpose. Its very existence hurts their profession and benefits studios. You can not be a studio, use this technology, and claim to care about ethics, anymore than Amazon can claim to care about the workers as it invests in the machines to replace them.

No one is holding a gun to their head forcing them to us AI. They made a choice. There is no “ethical” way to cripple the livelihood of working class people for the benefit of your business. Just stop using the word.

It doesn’t matter if you compensate or get their approval, because the fact is the existence of the technology in the industry effectively compels all voice actors to agree to let it use their voice, or they can’t get work. It becomes a false choice.

If there was no financial benefit, if it truly made no difference in how much a studio pays in labor or the amount the artists make, there would be no reason for studios to want to use it.

Even_Adder,

Do you have any source for those claims? There are plenty of better reasons to develop voice synthesis than replacing voice actors.

GalacticHero,

Voiced characters that use generative AI in real time instead of prerecorded lines and a dialogue tree come to mind as an obvious use. How cool would that be, to be playing an RPG and ask any character any question you want and get an actual verbal answer? No way you can do that with voice actors.

glimse,

Ever seen the game Vaudeville? It’s a fairly basic detective game but all the characters have their own LLM and AI voices. I bought it for the reason you described. I just had to see the technology in action and I can definitely see a future with generative text/voices in games.

It’s not perfect by any means but I think it’s a very cool approach to a detective game. There have been updates to it since I played that address most of the problems I had with it like characters forgetting past conversations and giving conflicting info.

Ookami38,

I had spitballed an idea similar to this a few months back. Build the characters, world, and situations, and give the AI that information. Pick a few specific pieces of info the AI would have to tell you at specific times, basically to act as guide rails. Then, let the AI and the player just… Interact.

glimse,

That’s pretty much Vaudeville. The only things you can do is click on locations and talk to people, each of whom has some bit of information you need to figure out.

It’s basically an experiment to see what works and what doesn’t with the idea. I appreciate that they kept the scope small (no quests, no WASD movement) and have been implementing changes as they discover the shortfalls (like the ones I’ve mentioned). If it ever does get released as a finished game, it’ll be more like a proof of concept for other games to build off of.

grrgyle,

Depends how much you’re willing to spend

nogooduser,

I find it to be very off putting that Baldur’s Gate 3 doesn’t have voice actors for the main character.

There are so many different races that would have different voices and different accents that it wouldn’t be financially viable to do that with voice actors either.

PotatoKat,

They originally did for the beta (for origin characters at least) but the players didn’t really like it so the feature was removed

GBU_28,

The only real ethical concern is around the training data. If all voices are compensated / actively consent to be used in an AI program, then this is just a tool. People losing jobs doesn’t really matter to an individual company. Industries change and technology advances.

So the real problem is they are using these types of tools, built of the skill of other voice actors, without properly compensating them or getting their consent.

style99,

What’s the point of bringing up “ethics?” The job only existed in the first place because of technology, and now people want to argue that there is a right or wrong aspect to it?

How about the poor candle makers or buggy whip manufacturers? Should we keep downgrading society just to keep a few “artists” happy?

DmMacniel,

Downgrading because we want people to stay employed?

ricdeh,
@ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

Then let’s go back to ploughing our fields by hand, surely that will create many new employment opportunities!

Ookami38,

Eh, we weren’t paying for that back in the day anyway.

Zorque,

More importantly, the system we all accept (willingly or not) requires that people be employed to survive.

It's not a matter of wanting to be employed, as needing to be employed.

card797,

The term Luddite comes to mind.

novibe,

Luddites were not anti-technology. They saw the progress of technology IN a primitive capitalist system and understood that technology would never benefit them, and always be used to subjugate them more.

If technology only benefits 0.1% of the world, and leads to the world dying, does it benefit humanity at all?

GBU_28,

The concern is that the training and potentially production voices are not properly compensated or consenting

It’s not so much that a new tool is used, it’s that it exists due to the artistic product of people who aren’t profiting from the novel use

A job coming or going isn’t the true issue

Cypher,

Good to see you have formed a strong opinion without having all of the information.

Deceptichum,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

Technology making labour obsolete is the goal we should all be wanting.

Attack capitalism not the technology.

Zahille7,

True, but it’s not quite working out that way is it?

Postmortal_Pop,

That’s kind of the point though isn’t it? It’s not the car’s fault we can’t afford the gas. We need to stop arguing about the ethics of using AI and start arguing about the ethics of the people using it unethically.

There is a person in that studio that suggested using AI, there is a person who gave the go ahead to do it. Those people need to be the problem, not the toy they decided to play with.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

That's a very naive perspective though. We're not blaming the guns for gun violence, it's the people, but restricting access to guns is still the proven way to reduce gun incidents. One day when everyone is enlightened enough to not need such restrictions then we can lift them but we're very far from that point, and the same goes for tools like "AI".

msgraves,

you’re gonna have a bad time restricting software

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Very easy time if it's about commercial use (well, at least outside of china). Companies need to have licenses for the software they use, they have to obey copyright laws and trademarks, have contracts and permissions for anything they use in their day to day work. It's the same reason why no serious company wants to even touch any competitor's leaked source code when it appears online.

Just because AI tech bros live in a bubble of their own, thinking they can just take and repurpose anything they need, doesn't mean it should be like that - for the most case it isn't and in this case, the law just hasn't caught up with the tech yet.

msgraves,

actual example please not like your other friend Luddite on the other comment

fcSolar,

It’d be dead easy, actually. Don’t even have to actually ban it: For image generating models, every artist whose work is included in the training data becomes entitled to 5 cents per image in the training data every time a model generates an image, so an artist with 20 works in the model is entitled to a dollar per generated image. Companies offering image generating neural networks would near instantly incur such huge liabilities that it simply wouldn’t be worth it anymore. Same thing could apply to text and voice generating models, just per word instead of per image.

msgraves,

disregarding the fact that the model learns and extrapolates from the training data, not copying,

have fun figuring out which model made the image in the first place!

Cocodapuf,

That said, this choice wasn’t actually a problem right?

I mean this game doesn’t use voice actors normally. If they used ai voice actors for this update only to represent the ai characters… isn’t that just appropriate?

Previously all characters in this game were represented only by text, so literally nobody is being replaced here.

Another way to think about it would be via representation. We get worked up when an ethnic character on screen is played by a different ethnicity, an actor in blackface for example. And in that vein using ai for organic characters could be seen as offensive, but using ai for ai characters would not. In contrast could we see using human voices for ai characters to be insensitive? That may sound far fetched, but this is sci-fi, the ai characters in the game are fully sentient and in their fictional universe would have rights, the whole point is to make the player think about what that means.

Well I guess I have my takeaway, I may consider boycotting any game that uses human actors for ai characters. Just get an ai actor… seriously.

Postmortal_Pop,

Honestly, I’d argue that that’s exactly what AI should be for. Either being used by that one guy to give voices to his passion project because he can’t afford to hire voice actors, or to add a touch of the uncanny to an AI character.

ChicoSuave,

In practice, capitalism will use technology to subjugate others instead of allowing technology to free us from work.

Mnemnosyne,

Yes, as long as people keep focusing on fighting the technology instead of fighting capitalism, this is true.

So we can fight the technology and definitely lose, only to see our efforts subverted to further entrench capitalism and subjugate us harder (hint: regulation on this kind of thing disproportionately affects individuals while corporations carve out exceptions for themselves because ‘it helps the economy’)…

Or we can embrace the technology and try to use it to fight capitalism, at which point there’s at least a chance we might win, since the technology really does have the potential to overcome capitalism if and only if we can spread it far enough and fast enough that it can’t be controlled or contained to serve only the rich and powerful.

HeartyBeast,
@HeartyBeast@kbin.social avatar

The technology is magnifying the flaws in capitalism

hrtgnt,

yea, see i just don’t like how we first automated creativity instead of like, idk, manual labor???

Takumidesh,

Manual labor has been being automated since the industrial revolution.

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Okay but I still have to fold my own laundry.

Womble,

And do you wash your clothes in a bucket, wring them out in a mangler before beating your rugs with a stick to get the dust out of them?

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

And I don’t make my own paints either when doing art. I still agree with the basic original point:

It is disappointing that we’re currently automating creativity far faster than manual labour. I’m angry that my art is getting automated away faster than my folding of laundry.

Womble,

The original point being:

yea, see i just don’t like how we first automated creativity instead of like, idk, manual labor???

emphasis mine, but this is just incorrect. Technology has been reducing the need for manual labour (or rather increasing the amount of useful work done with manual labour) since the wheel and the plow.

billiam0202,

It’s not; you’re just looking at the beginning of automating creativity when labor automation has been going on for over a hundred years. The introduction of new tech is always more disruptive than refining established tech. Besides which, VA is particularly sensitive to disruption because every VA does essentially the same job- one AI can be programmed to speak in thousands (millions?) of different voices, whereas one manual labor job doesn’t necessarily require the same actions as another.

Also it’s funny you complain about laundry, given how much doing laundry has been automated.

Don_alForno,

And people still have to lift heavy shit, crawl around in dangerous spaces and generally harm their health to make a living.

Katana314,

I have an idea for the practice that could help us better explore practical uses. Basically, a company may train an AI off an actor’s voice, but that actor retains full non-transferable ownership/control of any voices generated from that AI.

So, if a game is premiering a new game mode that needs 15 new lines from a character, but their actor is busy drinking Captain Morgan in their pool, the company can generate those 15 lines from AI, but MUST have a communication with the actor where they approve the lines, and agree on a price for them.

It would allow for dynamic voice moments in a small capacity, and keep actors in business. It would still need some degree of regulation to ensure no one pushes gross incentives.

Nibodhika,

Congratulations you essentially described what Stellaris devs did.

otp,

claim to care about the workers as it invests in the machines to replace them.

A company that invests in UBI could make that claim!

Obviously Amazon doesn’t do that now. But I could see it happening when people stop being able to buy their junk

Summzashi,

Old man yells at cloud

smeg, do games w [PCGamer] Helldivers 2 is the least I've felt pressured to spend money on a game in years, so of course I'm buying everything in the store

Is this a sponsored post by a bought-and-paid-for shill, or is the writer just so worn down by microtransactions over the years that they’re Stockholm-Syndromed into thinking this is somehow OK?

Tick_Dracy,
@Tick_Dracy@lemm.ee avatar

Might be both 😅

iAvicenna,

we are living in an age where paying more money to a game for full content after buying it is “refreshing”

smeg,

I think this is just what happens when an art gets big and becomes an industry. Film buffs don’t get (too) wound up at every new formulaic action movie, soulless remake, or low-brow comedy (and all the money-grabbing tie-ins that come with them); maybe we should all just chill out and stop worrying about the mass-market blockbusters when there’s still a wealth of great stuff to play.

Carlo,

Yeah, I think this is a great take. It’s pretty easy to avoid all the mercenary practices that tend to plague most “AAA” titles these days— mostly by not buying the games at launch; eventually they all come around as giveaways, or at least at a deep discount. And as you say, there are a plethora of small developers putting out amazing games all the time. I’ve been getting a ton of mileage the last couple of months out of Vagrus and Dredge.

smeg,

Preaching to the choir mate, I run freegames@feddit.uk, I acquire recent-but-not-brand-new AA-but-not-AAA games faster than I can play them! It’s still a great experience to be a patient gamer.

Carlo,

Subbed, thanks! Looks like a good resource.

Goronmon,

I think this is just what happens when an art gets big and becomes an industry.

Video games have been an “industry” for decades though.

smeg,

Yeah but it’s become way more mainstream with the rise of mobile gaming (because suddenly half the population of the world is a potential customer)

iAvicenna,

Maybe you are right but it is a bit like when search engines are flooded with crap: super annoying. I would any day prefer fewer options of mid to high quality stuff to whatever this is.

smeg,

This is the first time I’ve even heard of this game. Just ignore the big paid-for marketing announcements and find real people’s recommendations.

Zahille7,

I mean Skull & Bones, the $70 always-online piratey piece of shit from Ubisoft, has an ad in the game for the Premium Edition - which, I shit you not, the first line of the description says “premium edition gives you access to the Full Game.”

Like, fuck any form of modern gaming whatsoever after this point. I bought the Arkham games cause they’re on a huge sale on steam (literally $10 for the whole trilogy, and Origins is currently $5) and have been having a fucking blast replaying those amazing games.

smeg,

I made a couple of posts recently about how it doesn’t really matter that there’s all this money-grabbing because we’re so spoiled for choice from the past few decades. My conclusion was that there’s no point in worrying when I’ve got a big pile of great games to play already!

yamanii,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Diablo 4, a full priced game, has microtransactions that are as expensive as the game itself, and skins that cost as much as 30 USD, when a game doesn’t fuck the people as hard it draws attention.

Woht24,

That’s such victim mentality. That’s like saying you like Guard A over Guard B because Guard A doesn’t beat you as severely.

Andrenikous,

Yeah that’s unfortunately how the industry has been headed for games from major developers and publishers.

kbin_space_program, do gaming w Escape From Tarkov dev finally caves, says people who paid $150 for the game will get access to its new mode 'in waves'

"I'm extra sorry that our lawyer got back to me and said the previous wording we did around the 'all future DLC inclusion' was legally binding and we'd get the pants sued off of us unless we changed course."

BmeBenji, do games w The wild successes of Helldivers 2 and Baldur's Gate 3 send a clear message: Let devs cook

The wild monetary successes of Call of Duty and Fortnite send a clear message: treat unsupervised children as prey and you will earn billions of dollars

Fedizen,

also roblox

SendMePhotos,

Especially roblox

Deestan, do games w 'This is only the beginning': Metal Gear Solid fans lose their minds as David Hayter returns to voice Solid Snake in a new teaser

Kojima, the driving force of Metal Gear is gone. What is left is a corporate committee who through focus testing and guesswork try to keep the franchise on the road roughly in the same direction it has been going and avoid crashing into stuff.

They will make any new version look and feel as much as possible as the previous games, only deviating for committee-approved reasons of monetization, trend chasing, or marketing appeal.

What they will not and can not do is to strap a rocket to the roof of Metal Gear Solid, take a hard right and drive the car off the road and into the hills and launch it over Mount Everest. They don’t have the will, the auteur ability, or the trust of the fanbase.

Kojima could do that, which is what made the franchise what it is today.

MGS is dead, but Konami owns the pelt. What comes out next is just taxidermy with animatronics.

Son_of_dad,

As far as I’m concerned the series is definitively over. 5 was the final. You don’t really need Kojima for remakes, just a team of good devs who love the series. But I also don’t trust Konami to pull that simple thing off. What is with the really bad “remake” ports from all the game companies in the last few years? Is it that hard to remake a game?

NuXCOM_90Percent,

As someone who thinks Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance is the best Metal Gear since Solid 1*, I really do wish it had become an ensemble world. Platinum doing Raiden/Grey Fox. Imagine IOI making an ACTUAL stealth game set in that world. Hell, I could even see a timeline where Arkane made a game where you play as The Cobras. Instead, we just kept going back to the Snake well and had ever increasing dissonance between cutscene, boss, and normal gameplay characterizations.

As for bad remasters/remakes: A lot of that is that this is The COVID Year in terms of releases. These are most of the games that would have had most of their dev cycle during lockdown and were heavily delayed or had massive scope changes to meet release windows. Sometimes that means we get truly amazing games (BG3) and sometimes that means we have shovelware that just needs to avoid sunken cost fallacies.

And the other aspect is that a LOT of studios, particularly Japanese ones, are in the process of upgrading their tech. I loved Like a Dragon: Ishin (and am so excited for Gaiden next week). But that was a VERY small scope/ambition game (a mostly beat for beat remake of one of the lesser PS2 games) that was pretty openly about exploring Unreal Engine. And there have been a lot of games that are less open about “Hey, we are mostly dicking around to see if this tech works for us”.

*: 3 was awesome but very much “Empire Strikes Back”… in a lot of ways including the conspiratorial “So did the Creator actually write this? Because a lot of signs point to ‘no’”. And 5 was an awesome sandbox with no plot or pacing to speak of

Son_of_dad,

I played the main series and never played the side, PSP games like peace walker, so I was completely lost when playing 5. I was wondering what this setting and people were for a while, until I realized I had to go back and read up on peace walker.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

Having played Portable Ops (fine), Peace Walker (fine), and Acid 1 and 2 (FUCK YEAH): 5 was still mostly nonsense.

All you get from PW/PO (since PW largely felt like a redo of PO and PW was a prototype for the format of TPP):

  1. This random lesbian was in love with The Boss but ended up fucking Huey and is Otacon’s mom. And somehow that is the least problematic portion of her arc.
  2. Paz is basically the jailbait version of EVA in that she is a spy who betrays you but also everyone wants to fuck her but her true love is, and always will be, Big Boss. And don’t ask how old she is because nobody wants to know that.
  3. Chico is your loveable sidekick that you never really gave a shit about but he is like 12
  4. Big Boss has either stopped or started using Big Boss as a title for the umpteenth time because we can’t play as someone not called “Snake” and has something that may or may not be Outer Heaven built on an oil rig.
  5. Don’t think too hard about why Skullface is basically just Hot Coldman but more of an edgelord.

A friend summed it up perfectly: Ground Zeroes works a LOT better if you pretend that Peace Walker didn’t exist and this is just “the adventures of Naked Snake”. Similar to how we never really know what Solid and Otacon did as an NGO before they became international terrorists in MGS2.

Son_of_dad,

I still have no idea who skull face is or what’s his deal

Grangle1,

I hate it when developers make what they say are side games in a series essential to canon, especially when they don’t tell you they’re doing it or when they go into the side game not planning to make it canon and then decide it’s canon during or after development.

Or I should say, I hate it when developers make the next main series game assuming you’ve played the essential “side” game and leave out or half-ass their catch-up for people who haven’t played it. I call it “Chain of Memories syndrome” after when Kingdom Hearts made Chain of Memories essential to fully understanding KH2.

BaronVonBort,

What they need to do is take whoever the next director of the game is going to be, strap them to a chair Clockwork Orange style and mix the entire Criterion Collection and Evangelion for about a year or two.

Then just for good measure have them write a page of names and slap them anytime a name nears anything of normal.

Then, and only then, should they be allowed to start working.

4am,

This comment needs to become a copypasta. Not because it’s silly, but because it’s accurate and brutal.

pixxelkick,

try to keep the franchise on the road roughly in the same direction it has been going and avoid crashing into stuff.

Based on their last attempt they couldn’t even manage that. Have we already forgotten that as soon as Kojima left the company, Metal Gear Survive came out?

PS, Kojima has a really cool Instagram where he posts his thoughts and stuff he likes, if anyone is a big fan and wants to sub to him. Dude has some radical tastes lol

etchinghillside, do games w I'm so glad I waited nearly 3 years to play Cyberpunk 2077, but I dread the fact that this is our new normal

I can hold out until it’s $19.99 – this is normal for me.

FunderPants, (edited )

I bought it for less than that from a pawn shop during the peak hate. I remember the pawn guy being like “that ones got real bad reviews” and I said “I’ll try any game for $14”.
I tucked it away for a year or so and then loved it.

mp3,
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

I bought a used PS4 copy of No Man’s Sky for 5$ before the Next update came out.

FatTony,
@FatTony@lemmy.world avatar

One - two years is a mere blink in the life of a patient gamer. I’m patient. I can wait.

Rooty,
RickyRigatoni,
@RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml avatar

Massive L for even considerimg giving them any money at all.

flux, do games w CD Projekt recommends starting a new game when Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 drops: 'starting fresh will enhance your overall gameplay experience'
@flux@lemmy.world avatar

“Hey gonks! Remember that game we released and was dirty as hell but you all gave up the eddies because we told you it was preem. We finally have the game we should have released just 3 years later. Go ahead and flatline your 200hr characters and reboot.”

AttackPanda,

I wish I had the fortitude to start over at 140 hours deep into my character but damn I’m not sure I do.

VentraSqwal,

Same. But I have wanted to explore other characters. My current one I made a baseball bat wielding, hard punching, aggressive nomad punk with a heart of gold, with some sniper secondary skills. Basically what I imagined a nomad would be like, with the skills I thought they’d have.

I kind of want to see what it’s like as full stealth or a corpo hacker or a street samurai katana wielder or knife thrower.

JJROKCZ,

If you got 200hours out of release then clear you got your moneys worth out of the game and enjoyed it, promises not kept or not.

Personally the game could’ve been better but I certainly enjoyed the one 120ish hour playthrough I did and had no major issues other than some texture bugs or weird physics, I had a capable PC though not a last gen console trying to play at being modern.

anonono,

by that definition you get your money’s worth of every movie you watch in the theater, the longer the better.

it’s a shitty take.

don’t pretend they didn’t screw up.

muse, (edited )
@muse@kbin.social avatar

And don't circlejerk over the dead horse that this game is unsalvageable because it had a shitty release. People forgave No Man's Sky, but the internet won't let this one go.

anonono,

You got it completely wrong.

Shitty games with shitty releases go into oblivion, the game is obviously good.

I’m not criticizing the game, I’m criticizing the company and the billionaries that preside it and decided people swallow it all up if they launched a game in the state they did.

orbitz,

I agree but I think it took about this long from Cyberpunk released till there was a better outlook on No Man’s Sky and I bought both at release, I enjoyed both, but I’d say at release Cyberpunk was a better game at launch (I didn’t have any bugs I got lucky). NMS did much more work on content in the following years to where it’s barely the same experience. Has been awhile since I restarted Cyberpunk will do for 2.0 though. Maybe I haven’t caught much newer content and they added it but it seemed updates were tweaks / fixes than content.

RaivoKulli,

People shouldn’t have forgiven NMS for their blatant and shitty lies either

MiltownClowns,

The analogy your looking for is that you get your money’s worth out of every movie you see 3 times in the theater but only pay once.

it’s a shitty take.

don’t pretend you didn’t screw up

Primarily0617,

if there was a movie that was 200 hours long and you chose to stay for the entire duration and not walk out, then you either enjoyed the movie or you need to learn about the sunk-cost fallacy

barsoap,

weird physics

MOTORCYCLES SUDDENLY DID NOT STOPPIE ANY MORE

My disappointment was immeasurable and my day was ruined. This was a feature, not a bug.

Retrograde,
@Retrograde@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I’m sure someone’ll mod it back in

gothicdecadence,

I did a heavily modded 90hr playthrough and loved it. Dealt with a ton of crashes though 😅 I’m planning on playing this vanilla finally, or very lightly modded for UI and stuff.

JJROKCZ,

Yea I played vanilla release over 100 hours, then some ui/qol mods. Looking forward to a vanilla 2.0 and dlc run then maybe see what some of these overhaul mods are doing a few months after that once they’ve been patched up

RaivoKulli,

I played it on PS4. CDPR said it plays surprisingly well on it.

Lmao

TigrisMorte,

PC launch play was mostly fine. Only Console launch, mostly caused by massive delusion about min. spec.s, was f'd up completely. The PC issues were also the easiest to fix and even when they could fix the Console issues, they had to convince the Console store's Owners that the relaunch wouldn't be a shit show. But then I play on PC and so expect similar to last time, once I buy it after it launches.

WeLoveCastingSpellz,
@WeLoveCastingSpellz@lemmy.fmhy.net avatar

Petty AF. Massive update that overhaults the game and dlc its common practice to restart at updates like this

flux,
@flux@lemmy.world avatar

I’m actually a fan of the game. I’m excited to play it. I just find it funny they are saying they have made it so much better that they recommend starting over. My point is that they are saying they finally got a lot of things “right” in 2.0 that we were playing an inferior game with quite a few quaility issues. Probably due to deadlines, etc. I’m happy devs continue to improve based on sales and feedback to make it better.

Chev,

You make it sound like they are forcing you to do so. You have the freedom of choice.

flux,
@flux@lemmy.world avatar

Of course. I’m happy they are allowing you to continue. I’ll keep going as I like the game.

Rampsquatch,

If you sunk 200 hours into the game, was it really that awful?

flux,
@flux@lemmy.world avatar

No it’s a good game. I like it even with the qc issues because it’s ambitious. But the devs are basically admitting that they worked on it for 3 years to fullfill the original vision and it’s so much better that it’s worth starting over.

mp3, do games w Todd Howard asked on-air why Bethesda didn't optimise Starfield for PC: 'We did [...] you may need to upgrade your PC'
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

The missing part is that the user with a 4090 complaining had a CPU from 2017 🥴 https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/b8c595d0-663f-45d4-b60e-e8738b8945b7.png

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

What’s a CPU bottleneck? I have the magic gpu

capt_wolf,
@capt_wolf@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I’m not buying that either. I’m on a 2014 i7 and a 3060 playing on ultra. My sole issue was not running on an SSD which I resolved yesterday. That kid is clearly playing on a potato and lying.

NewNewAccount,

At what framerate?

Piecemakers3Dprints,
@Piecemakers3Dprints@lemmy.world avatar

Lying at any framerate is still lying.

NuPNuA,

I’m shocked at home many PC users are still running HDDs given that SSDs have been standard ok consoles for three years now.

Viking_Hippie,

They’ve pretty much been standard for gaming and containing the os on PC for 5 if not more. HDDs are still good for storage, but only luddites and people trying to save money in the stupidest way would have their games on them.

rambaroo, (edited )

Playing on ultra on a 3060 ? So you’re getting 20-30 fps? Because that’s what it gets on mine with a much newer CPU. I had to turn it down to med-high to average 45 fps

Annoyed_Crabby,

Lol, dude used up all the money to get a GPU.

Vordus,

Considering that this thing runs great on a Series S (which is CPU-heavy, but with a weak graphics card) that makes so much more sense.

rambaroo,

Gotta love the Bethesda fanboys upvoting this one cherry picked comment. They’re are like 70 comments in there with all different combos of system specs complaining about performance.

secondaccountlemmy, do games w I'm so glad I waited nearly 3 years to play Cyberpunk 2077, but I dread the fact that this is our new normal

Me as a patient gamer: “I dont understand the problem.”

Wrench,

I played it on a dated PC (980ti) a few days after release, maybe a week. I didn’t understand the problem either. The gaming community is extremely fickle and loves to hive mind dump on things.

secondaccountlemmy,

I mean it WAS actually a broken mess from what I saw.

Im saying I always buy games on a deep sale well after it has been released so Im not particularly impacted.

Wrench,

Yeah, my point was it wasn’t a broken mess (except on last Gen consoles), but the gaming community blew its flaws out of proportion.

The game you’re playing as a patient gamer is close to the original with some polish.

Couldbealeotard,
@Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world avatar

It was such a mess that Sony removed it from the PlayStation store and gave out refunds.

Wrench,

Yes, I explicitly acknowledged that the last Gen console criticism was warranted.

NuPNuA,

Sony did that bacuse they’ve skirted laws about refunds in some parts of the world for years and CDPR inadvertently highlighted that. MS, Valve and GOG left the game up and issued refunds when requested as that should be a normal part of doing business.

ABCDE,

Or… your experience was different from that of others. I had some weird glitches in a boss fight early on which made it difficult or impossible to progress. The person you responded to said it was a mess for them, yet it wasn’t for you. We all saw different things.

Wrench,

And yet, any Bethseda game has the same or worse kind of “game breaking” bugs, and gets away with it from a community backlash perspective.

I never had a bug in CP77 that broke progression. I had one boss get stuck in an elevator that made him trivial to kill.

In skyrim, I had to search up console commands to reset main quest lines that were otherwise completely broken, and commands to restore companions forever lost. And those were common experiences.

My point is that the community reaction was completely overblown when compared to other, very comparable, open world games. CP77 certainly had bugs and areas of improvement. But listening to the community, you’d think the whole thing was a dumpster fire, which it simply wasn’t. And my response was to someone who didn’t play it at release, saying that their opinion of the game being a dumsterfire was “correct”, without any frame of reference besides the community backlash.

ABCDE,

I did play it at release. CP77 isn’t very openworld, yet I had very few bugs in Skyrim on 360.

AWildMimicAppears,
@AWildMimicAppears@kbin.social avatar

the issue was that they marketed it like a RPG (where the source material comes from), which it simply isn't - it's GTA with a skill system and limited choices. I admit that i was disappointed, but the game itself is good and got a lot better with this patch.

NuPNuA,

I played it on Seriex X at launch and it was fine. Few graphical or animation issues here and there you expect in a big open world game but perfectky playable.

theragu40,

The issue was that there were multiple huge problems with the game spread across various platforms that created a big shit storm of negativity.

  • It was straight up broken for many console players.
  • Some PC players had performance issues.
  • For those who had no issues actually running it (like me), the game still had floaty controls and weightless guns. NPCs and vehicles that popped in and out at odd times. Dialog that clipped or played over each other. Completely broken police/wanted system. Confusing and largely ineffectual skill tree.
  • Once you got beyond those issues with game polish, then you were dealing with it not really being the deep scifi RPG they promised, but more of a shooter with RPG elements.

So you’ve got potential issues from multiple angles, and it just all compounded on itself. For me, I just got bored of dealing with it after like 10 hours. It was janky and that combined with it being nothing like what they hyped it up as just sorta killed it for me even though it ran with no issues.

With that said, I played for an hour or two after the update and my first impressions are a ton better and it seems like they have really fixed a lot of things. I’m excited to come back to it.

vanontom, (edited )
@vanontom@lemmy.world avatar

Very nice summary, thanks. I just recently started CP77, about 30 hours in now. I will stick with 1.63 for this playthrough.

My notes: The story and writing seems mostly excellent and unique (but not near the magic and masterpiece of Witcher 3.) Feeling that development was chaotic (pieces cut, rearranged, “montage” with Jackie was jarring.). World seems quite empty, few “layers” (soulless, unpolished). Car controls are not great, very “floaty” and strange. Literally zero encounters with NCPD yet (lol?). Reminds of Deus Ex, but leaning more action FPS. Bugs still apparent (floating cars, missing items), but nothing game-breaking. Graphics underwhelming (city environment especially, characters better, mostly “very high” settings, but admittedly no HDR or ray-tracing).

Would rate 4 out of 5 for now, but a 3 is possible (hopefully not).

theragu40,

That’s an interesting comparison to Deus Ex. I hadn’t thought of that but I agree. It’s definitely got that feel, it’s just much more shallow. Good call.

RaivoKulli,

Lot of missing features and loads of bugs. It just wasn’t what they hyped it up to be

agent_flounder,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.one avatar

Same. I’m still a little leery. Think I’ll give it another few months to settle down.

Weirdfish,

I bought it at launch, and on PS4 it was actually an unplayable mess.

I’ve since gotten a PS4 pro, and still haven’t loaded it up again.

Pretty sure I’ll get a PS5 this year, so I’m thinking of waiting till the to play it.

With large games like this, I know I’m going to sink a lot of time into my first lay through, figure why not wait until I can do it right.

Shgrizz,

Right? It’s not like it’s even the type of game you need to play on release. If you can live without always needing the new shiny thing, you have a better experience for half the price or less.

Of course, it does rely on the people who need the new shiny thing to fund the game and beta test all the bugs, but still…

spizzat2,

you have a better experience for half the price or less.

And there are no downsides!

FoxBJK, do games w The recent criticism of Linus Tech Tips, explained
@FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

Linus really doesn’t respond well to criticism. He’s trying to act like a sale and an auction are 2 different things? If some hardware vendor tried to feed him that excuse he’d devote a whole video to it! Hell, if someone had sold one of his screwdriver prototypes he’d probably have thrown a fit and sued (as is his right)!

He’s picking quantity of videos over quality, so stuff like this is only going to accelerate.

blargerer,

Ignoring everything else, because other accusations seem to have more credibility, although a charity auction is certainly a type of sale, sale has completely different connotations than charity auction when devoid of context. It's a fair issue for them to have and raise.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Both share the actually relevant bit: The item went from LTT having it to them not having it, having not given it back to the owners either.

FoxBJK,
@FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

No it’s not. It’s not how the item got out of LTT’s hands that the issue here. It’s that LTT didn’t return a fucking prototype! Sold, lost, melted down, really doesn’t matter. If I’m making products and want to send one to LMG for a review, I’m insisting on him paying a hefty deposit first, because he clearly can’t be trusted.

shipoopi,

I see this as a “you’re technically right, there is a legal difference; BUT the issue here is not how it was passed to someone else and not returned to the owners, but that it happened at all” type deal.

Zron,

Does billet have their prototype back?

No.

The wording doesn’t matter. Call it an auction, sale, donation, grand theft, whatever you want. But that the end of the day, a small company now no longer has access to their expensive prototype. That’s very damaging to them as a business, let alone the damage that LTT caused to Billet’s image by their haphazard review process. Billet has every right to sue for damages over this, and I personally think they should.

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