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gofsckyourself, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

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  • yamanii,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    4 likes on him complaining that modlogs being public is something bad, cowards that only want to be shitty in the shadows.

    PyroNeurosis,

    I’m still fairly new. Where do I go for modlog drama?

    Redjard,
    @Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    There is a sub for sanity checking mod actions, aita-style.
    If you keep in mind it is for active unconfirmed situations, and that votes there are not meant to mark the cases of mod abuse, I think it can fill that niche.

    !yepowertrippinbastards

    Jtee,
    @Jtee@lemmy.world avatar

    Wow, mad because you can be held accountable. That’s sad.

    Thanks for the steam link!

    finitebanjo,

    I was going to ask why the thumbnail on this post is a hexagon shaped bear, but your comment explains it well enough.

    Blisterexe,

    the thumbnail is a hexagon bear because it’s the logo for easyanticheat, the most recogniseable anticheat

    finitebanjo,

    Well thats somewhat unnerving.

    fsxylo,

    You will love the spyware bear.

    Voyajer,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    He used to relentlessly spam the /r/linux_gaming subreddit and argue with people there too until he deleted his reddit account lol

    mrvictory1,

    He’s still on Reddit

    Voyajer,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    He would make another account account

    mrvictory1,

    Yes he said he made an alt but I think his main is still active? Not sure.

    NuXCOM_90Percent,

    I really don’t see a need to drag community drama everywhere. GoL is one of the biggest aggregator blogs out there for… linux gaming. Whether we should prioritize original sources over aggregators is a different discussion.

    But yeah. Liam is great for news aggregating but he is 100% the stereotypical linux gamer and has a long history of starting random shit. Still annoyed by how fast he got everyone to shit on the Duckstation devs because they didn’t want to be exploited.

    Sunny,
    @Sunny@slrpnk.net avatar

    Being a big(“great”) news aggregator doesn’t excuse bad behavior.

    NuXCOM_90Percent, (edited )

    Are you the lemmy cops? Is it your responsibility to chase any link to someone’s website across every instance and make sure people know they are a bit of a jackass?

    If you think GoL should be a banned source, take it up with the various moderators. If you think only primary sources should be allowed (which I actually agree with), that is also a discussion to be had.

    But rushing in to berate people for linking to one of the most popular news aggregators for a story that people would be interested in because you don’t like the guy who owns that site? All you are doing is discouraging people from making posts in the future.


    Which is the problem with dragging community/subreddit drama everywhere you go. It just makes the site a much more hostile place for everyone. And we really aren’t big enough to be doing that.

    Sunny,
    @Sunny@slrpnk.net avatar

    🚨 🚨 🚨 FREEZE! STOP RIGHT THERE!! 🚨 🚨 🚨

    As the official lemmy police I am arresting you for defending a mad lad caught abusing powers. You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.

    Jokes aside… I do think people should be allowed to post opinions an discuss other peoples behavior. Gol dude was caught abusing his powers, which is a disgusting thing to do, personally don’t mind him being called out for that in a post here and there. It’s not an attack on the poster, it’s a reminder to folks who the guy really is.

    I’m all for the truth, no matter who it is.

    Dremor, (edited )
    @Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

    As he said, modlogs are public, and it seems like other user retreived the trace of what you call an “abuse of power” : sopuli.xyz/comment/12732467 .

    It is in his right as a moderator to chose how he moderate the communities he has the right to. If he finds your comment pedantic and annoying, and chose to remove it, so be it.

    I’m not taking sides here. I don’t know the whole story, and I doubt anyone else here does. With the little context provided, It’d be hard to take knowingly a side.

    But in both case, this is textbook harassement as you are copy-pasting this comment on every community this is posted on. This community has a pretty clear rule against harrassement (rule 2), which you are breaching, offense for which I’ll use my g… mod given right of banning you for the time being (I’ll re-evaluate tomorrow when I’ll be less tired).

    Edit : After talking with OP via PM, a ban of 7 days was issued

    hoshikarakitaridia, do games w Godot Engine hits over 50K euros per month in funding

    All hail FOSS and Godot.

    Secret300, do games w Godot Engine hits over 50K euros per month in funding

    I really hope Godot will become as good for games like blender is for 3D modeling

    Hazdaz,

    Oh god. Please aim higher than that. Not saying that Blender ain’t powerful, because it clearly is, but it’s UI is just plain shit. (Unless there have been some massive improvements over the last few years.)

    whereisk,

    Most certainly have been. Worth another look.

    Hazdaz,

    I might have to one of these days, but man do I doubt it’s UI is usable after being such hot garbage over so many years. Such a shame too because fuck everything about Autodesk and I know Blender has some incredibly powerful tools.

    snugglesthefalse,

    Blender used to be basically unusable for me, the UI made no sense and attempting to use it after learning 3d through maya and 3ds it just didn’t work. Then they made it good, I spent a few weeks learning it a few years ago and it’s great now. What you’re describing is exactly what they went and did

    aBundleOfFerrets,

    I don’t think anyone would be able to comprehend how much the UI has improved without seeing it themselves. Please take a look sooner than later.

    Mdotaut801,

    So you’re not gonna try it like everyone is telling you to. I have no idea what they’re talking about because I don’t use blender but uh…me thinks you should try it instead of being stubborn and not. Seems kinda dumb.

    dunestorm,
    @dunestorm@lemmy.world avatar

    Go and troll somewhere else, it’s clear you won’t change your opinion even though you’re wrong.

    altima_neo,
    @altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

    I mean I’m coming from maya and Max, I taught myself blender last year, UI seemed pretty nice.

    I remember messing with it 10 years ago, and really hating it. Nothing like that now.

    OtakuAltair,

    The intuitive UI is the best part of Blender for me so that’s weird

    sergih,

    it is, I think he’s talking about the old ui

    Lemminary,

    That was Blender 2.9, and we’re on 3.6! It has gotten fairly good, I love it.

    Rentlar,

    Blender 2.79 and earlier was super-unintuitive. 2.8 gave it a fresh coat of paint it’s easier and more featureful with each version (Now 3.6, 2.8 was years ago!)

    AdrianTheFrog,
    @AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

    They massively changed the UI in 2019, in version 2.8. Hasn’t changed much since then though.

    If you remember Blender having a bad-looking light grey UI and no support for multiple workspaces, that’s the old version.

    Hadriscus,

    There have in fact been massive improvements over the last few years

    okamiueru,

    The… UI in blender is really good. Have you used any other equivalent software or know how complicated it is?

    It’s not “good but it’s a hard problem to solve”. It is more “great and it’s a hard problem to solve”

    RockHornet,

    It WAS shit. Now it’s the best UI (and UX) of all 3D software.

    EddyNottingham,

    I know right! I keep wishing all software would adopt some of it’s amazing features, like hover copy-pasting, being able to right-click any button/option to set a custom keyboard shortcut for it, being able to type maths into any numerical field, etc.

    AdrianTheFrog, (edited )
    @AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

    I keep going into Google slides and being annoyed I can’t just use G R and S to manipulate objects

    Edit: And I love how in Blender, ctrl-z will undo/redo selection. I hate spending so much time selecting things just to misclick in other programs.

    Koordinator_O,
    @Koordinator_O@lemmy.world avatar

    Selection beeing part of the undo/redo is sooo good. One of the best things in Blender.

    ilmagico, (edited )

    I tried learning it some time ago (months, not years) and I never cussed so much in my life… maybe I’ll just get the hang of it eventually, but let’s just say, first impression on the UI is not good.

    barsoap,

    Being intimidated and lost is completely normal given that it looks like this, and there’s probably not a single person on the world to have ever used all of Blender’s features.

    Watch the whole Blender 2.8 fundamentals playlist, things get way easier once you know what to ignore and what UI conventions blender uses as well have a rough overview of the feature set – because that allows you to ignore even more stuff. Then figure out what you want to do, figure out a workflow, customise the UI to make that particular thing convenient (remapping a couple of keys when you need something often, leave other things you need twice a day in the menus, etc), and bob’s your uncle.

    Last, but not least: Unless you come from another 3d program and absolutely can’t be bothered to re-train your muscle memory use right-click select. Your index finger is going to thank you, it’s also a better UI convention in general as it leads to way fewer misclicks (selecting instead of manipulating or the other way around). Personally, I use space bar for the context menu (the default is play video which I rarely use, and if then shift+space isn’t exactly awkward). There’s also plenty of extensions focussed on particular workflows, e.g. F2 is very common if you do mesh editing, I also use machin3tools, especially for mode switching.

    All major general-purpose 3d packages have a feature set so large that it can’t possibly fit onto keybindings, and you can’t pick them up like picking up a word processor. At the same time it’s professional software used by professionals who want to be fast and efficient, so the optimal UI isn’t “intuitive” (as in: dumbed down) but flexible and customisable. Blender’s defaults aren’t bad for some basic work but ultimately you will find them lacking, that’s not because the defaults are bad but because they are a compromise between 10000 ways to use the program. Ask three blender users how they use blender and you’ll get fifteen answers.

    ilmagico,

    Thanks for the pointers!

    jackalope,

    They updated it to really good stuff with 2.8 like 3 or so years ago.

    kadu, (edited )
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    I wish GIMP had a full UI redesign like Blender, it could work as a Photoshop replacement for many use cases but… Jesus it’s non intuitive, flawed and it mixes opposing design principles all the time.

    There was a project that renamed it to a less controversial name and updated the UI to more closely resemble modern photo manipulation tools, but they’ve stopped working on it before a major release.

    EDIT: There’s PhotoGIMP by Diolinux, a Brazilian Linux YouTube channel with a really nice host. This is a set of plugins and configuration files that try to ease the transition from Photoshop to GIMP for newcomers. It’s certainly good, but as an add-on, it can’t actually fix all issues with GIMP.

    Jargus,

    Seriously just let GIMP finally die. At this point the whole branding has become a running joke with anyone who works in graphic design. Better start a new project that hasn’t that much negative baggage.

    kadu,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    Are there other open source projects near feature parity with GIMP, though?

    There are certainly other commercial software, like Affinity, and certainly some shady Photoshop clones like Photopea (and it does work really well) but nothing like GIMP, as far as I’m aware.

    Jargus,

    No sadly not. Krita is great for digital artists but otherwise not a good gimp replacement. I personally still have my Affinity Photo 2 copy that I bought on Windows and use it in a VM. But I have the feeling that even huge parts of the Linux community have given up on GIMP. A lot of people that I talked too rather use Photopea instead. That’s why I think investing in GIMP is pointless. It has been seen as a joke for almost two decades, that the branding will never undo the negative connection. That’s why I think people should start a new project and if they have a clear vision and appear competent, rise a crowdfunding campaign in the FOSS movement.

    sebinspace,

    Stuart Semple’s company has something cooking. I have Affinity pirated, and I’m going to see which one I prefer before spending the money on either.

    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It’s been my understanding that the general populace has been asking the developers of GIMP for years now to overhaul the UI and make it much friendlier to use, and the answer came back, “No, stop asking.”

    dannoffs,
    @dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    The biggest problem with a GIMP UI overhaul is that the core team is only 2 people.

    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    That’s fairly common with open source projects. How do those two people treat contributors? How do they react to pull requests?

    lloram239,

    Gimp’s problem is not so much the UI, but that it has fallen way behind Photoshop in terms of features. Fixing up the UI wouldn’t hurt, but you’d still be stuck with a graphics app that’s 20 years behind the competition. It would need a heck of a lot more work to catch up.

    jackalope,

    You’re thinking of Glimpse o believe. And yes gimp really needs a change. Krita isn’t bad but not good for more graphic design oriented tasks. It’s type tools are awful.

    sp3tr4l, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

    However, it’s only being forced for kernel-level anti-cheat. If it’s only client-side or server-side, it’s optional, but Valve say “we generally think that any game that makes use of anti-cheat technology would benefit from letting players know”.

    I will always love Valve for their ability to use corpospeak against corpos.

    Your game has anti-cheat?

    Wonderful!

    I’m sure that always only results in an improved experience for all gamers, lets let them all know!

    =D

    Joeffect, (edited )

    How does vac play into all of this then …

    Edit: I was talking about them labeling vac games as being anti cheat… And wondering if they were going to pull some double standard… I didn’t know they label them already and still don’t know if they do…

    graff,

    It doesn’t run at the kernel level?

    sp3tr4l,

    VAC is not kernel level, because surprise you don’t actually need kernel level to do anti cheat well.

    VAC games would just get the standard AC message banner, not the scary yellow kernel level warning banner.

    … I am pretty sure VAC games have indicated on their store page that they use VAC for well over a decade.

    lastweakness,

    you don’t actually need kernel level to do anti cheat well.

    I’m sure you’re right, but VAC is one of the worst examples for that… I think whatever Blizzard does with Overwatch 2 is a better example.

    sp3tr4l,

    I would love to see any kind of documentation that can somehow prove OW2’s AC is better than VAC, something that isn’t based on vibes or immediacy bias.

    lastweakness,

    I sure wish there was some empirical study regarding the same too. I’m very much going by anecdotal evidence from myself and others right now

    sp3tr4l,

    So … your previous assertion that OW2’s AC is superior to VAC was in fact just based on vibes.

    Anti Cheat developers typically do not like to explain how exactly they work, how effective they actually are.

    Their data is proprietary, trade secrets.

    There will almost certainly never be a way to actually conduct the empirical study you wish for, save for (ironically) someone hacking into the corporate servers of a bunch of different anti cheat developers to grab their own internal metrics.

    But that should be obvious to anyone with basic knowledge of how Anti Cheats work, both technically and as a business.

    … None of that matters to you though, you have completely vibes based anecdotes that you confidently state as fact.

    Please stop doing that.

    When someone has no clue what they’re talking about, but confidently makes a claim about a situation because it feels right, this is typically called misinformation.

    lastweakness,

    I mean, anybody could verify it by spending a few hours each on the respective games… But yes, any empirical data would be nice. For example, a study on the amount of blatant hackers found on lobbies joined in comparable ranks. Anyway, this isn’t exactly misinformation to anybody who has played both games at any decent rank. It’s unproved but immediately discernible information. Take that how you will, i don’t really intend to argue about this here. This kind of pointless argument is the worst thing about Lemmy.

    sp3tr4l,

    I mean, anybody could verify it by spending a few hours each on the respective games… But yes, any empirical data would be nice.

    No, thats an anecdotal experience, and all it would tell you is the players’ perception of how prevalent cheating is… not how prevalent it actually is, not how effective an anti cheat system is at blocking cheaters.

    But yes, any empirical data would be nice. For example, a study on the amount of blatant hackers found on lobbies joined in comparable ranks

    “It would be great if there was any valid data/research to back up or disprove that thing I said earlier, but there isn’t, therefore I am completely justified in saying whatever as I want and acting as if its indisputable!”

    Anyway, this isn’t exactly misinformation to anybody who has played both games at any decent rank. It’s unproved but immediately discernible information.

    Again, no.

    You made a claim that a particular anti cheat system is better than another.

    You keep saying that ‘oh anyone can just tell’.

    No.

    What you are describing is again, at best, player perceptions of cheating prevalence.

    The logic you are using is exactly the same logic that people who believe in astrology or woo woo nonsense medical treatments use to justify their efficacy.

    … You have nothing but vibes and anecdotes, which you admit are unproved and have no basis in fact, beyond ‘i think this is obvious’.

    You’re just bullshitting.

    It is indeed pointless to attempt to get a bullshitter to admit they are bullshitting, when they’ve already backpedalled by moving goal posts, dismissing the importance of the discussion after being called out for making a specific claim which they can’t back up.

    You could just admit that ah well shit yeah, I guess I don’t have any actual valid reasoning or data to back up my claim, but nope you keep trucking on, doing everything you can to talk around that point instead of addressing it.

    Gigasser,

    I mean…bro was just giving an opinion man. He didn’t even really say that much originally. I think claiming the “superiority” of something online alot of the times is vibes based. That ain’t necessarily bad though. Are people not allowed to give more generalized or vague opinions?

    Buffalox, do games w Godot Engine hits over 50K euros per month in funding

    My wife has a few things on YouTube she made with Godot, and she has noticed a significant increase in traffic, since Unity made their blunder.

    Godot really deserves their increased popularity and donations, it’s absolutely amazing what they have achieved as a true Open Source project that is absolutely 100% free to use, and gives 100% control to game developers.

    Retro_unlimited, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

    That’s awesome! GTA V just screwed everyone on Linux! What a rug pull.

    conciselyverbose,

    Adding kernel malware after the fact should entitle every single owner who requests one to a full refund no matter how long has passed.

    TipRing,

    Full agree. I do want some kind of policy for games that introduce anti-cheat both during early access and after release. Bricking a game you paid for should offer some sort of recourse.

    ILikeBoobies,

    That should be any update if you can’t play the previous one

    CaptDust,

    I’d really like Valve to take an official policy on post-release changes that break games, but for what it’s worth they have not given me any hassle with refunds in these scenarios.

    nekusoul,
    @nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

    Yup. If it’s important enough that devs now have to add a disclaimer on the store page, surely devs shouldn’t be allowed to circumvent that by adding it later. Since SteamDeck customers are affected by this the most, it’s weird that this isn’t already a rule, particularly for games that are SteamDeck verified.

    theneverfox,
    @theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

    That’s a bit much… It’s just not possible to guarantee that as a developer

    Software is a living thing, and anything useful is made up of layer after layer of ever shifting sand. We do our best, but we are all at the mercy of our dependencies. There are trade-offs, there are bugs we can do nothing about, and sometimes moving forward means dropping support for platforms that are no longer “cheap” enough to afford while also working on the game

    I love this though. I also like the idea of requiring access to earlier builds.

    These mitigate anti consumer practices - dropping support for a platform is more likely to be a technical trade-off or unintentional consequence though

    ad_on_is,

    I do agree with the part where software moves, dependencies yada, yada… I’m a developer myself.

    But… this is different. They eliminated a perfectly working game, where they didn’t have to invest a minute of labor to get it working on Linux. The only thing they had to provide was the .so-file (for EAC) when publishing to Steam… Valve did all the work to make EAC compatible on Linux, yes, on user-level… but still… it fucking worked.

    Punishing an entire userbase, because other assholes (assumably) used Linux for cheating is discrimination. Even if there were no cheaters at all… it’s still discrimination… because it used to fucking work.

    theneverfox,
    @theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

    Oh no, I totally agree with you that this is gross behavior - I just think your rule is too broad.

    So we need more focused rules and mechanisms. I think disclosing anti-cheat on the store is a good mechanism, I think forcing them to provide previous releases is a good rule. That obviously doesn’t cover nearly enough, but in the current gaming environment I think it’s a good start

    Vilian,

    Valve was giving refund when riot added the anticheat

    xep,

    Are there Riot games on Steam?

    DragonOracleIX,

    They publish their single player games to steam. Don’t know about any of their multiplayer ones though.

    xep,

    I believe those are games made by other studios with the League IP and published by Riot. AFAIK there's no reason for them to have anticheat.

    pressanykeynow,

    I don’t think that’s fair. I “own” GTA5 and don’t really care for the last… 8 years? what they add. I had the full content of my purchase. Why should I be able to gain money for this?

    conciselyverbose,

    Don’t be pieces of shit and you won’t owe refunds.

    In a just world people would be going to prison for it.

    PM_Your_Nudes_Please,

    That’s exactly what Valve did. The automated refund system wasn’t available, but you could request a manual review and cite the added anti cheat; Valve was refunding those who did so.

    CheeseNoodle, do games w Terraria hits over 60 million sales with Terraria 1.4.5 shaping up to be another big update

    The final, ultimate, last, epilogue, finishing, concluding update.

    BestBouclettes,

    … So far

    truthfultemporarily, do games w Valve ban advertising-based business models on Steam, no forced adverts like in mobile games

    Related: timsh.org/tracking-myself-down-through-in-app-ads…

    Unity games on mobile send your location to Unity servers every couple seconds through the Unity ad network.

    Things you can do:

    • GDPR Request to Unity
    • use a DNS that blocks trackers, like mullvad
    smeg,

    I just deny most mobile games the network permission, though obviously this doesn’t work if you actually need any internet access (and I don’t think all devices give you control over that permission)

    grue,

    I just don’t play games that have ads (most of the games on my phone are from F-Droid).

    JigglySackles,

    I’ve had a hard time finding quality games in there. Outside of Shattered Pixel Dungeon they are few and far between. I still agree with your take though, because fuuuuck mainstream mobile games.

    I made a rare dip into the play store recently and tried to just get the hill climb racing game or a similar one. I played them as web games years ago and liked them and wanted to play them again. All of them are so riddled with ad garbage they are unplayable. Even the lego one was stuffed with “buy gems or your progress is nonexistent” and other garbage tactics.

    Every game I get in there is a disappointment. The Netflix games started out solid but I feel like they are going to change to more standard mobile junk eventually.

    AceFuzzLord,

    F-Drlid games definitely aren’t always the greatest, but I have been recently having a lot of fun with Feudal Tactics.

    JigglySackles,

    Awesome, that’s for the rec! I’ll be sure to check it out.

    diemartin, (edited )

    I can vouch for Luanti (formerly known as Minetest), Simon Tatham’s Puzzle Collection, and RetroArch.

    Edit: added links

    JigglySackles,

    Right on, thanks for the direct links. I’ll definitely try them out.

    diemartin,

    My pleasure.

    grue,

    I’ve had a hard time finding quality games in there. Outside of Shattered Pixel Dungeon they are few and far between.

    You’re not wrong. F-Droid would benefit greatly from having some sort of curated “best of” list, especially for games.

    That said, here are some I think are reasonably quality:

    • Mindustry
    • Frozen Bubble
    • Burger Party
    • Endless Sky
    • Vector Pinball
    • Surge Engine
    • SuperTuxKart
    • Xeonjia Ice Adventure

    tried to just get the hill climb racing game or a similar one.

    F-Droid has Lato, which seems to be in the same genre. It’s pretty polished in terms of having a nice graphical style and music, but IMO doesn’t quite make the list above because the gameplay seems a little simplistic compared to e.g. Hill Climb Racing. Still, worth a shot if you’re looking for that sort of game.

    JigglySackles,

    That’s an excellent list, thanks for sharing all that. I’ll be sure to check them out. I wish FDroid at least allowed some kind of user rating system to make this a little easier but I can understand some reasons to not include that function. If there’s no rating system there’s no raring abuse lol.

    TinyShonk,

    I didn’t see that permission when I looked for it

    smeg,

    Probably custom ROM only

    wreckedcarzz,
    @wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I have the option on graphene

    blindsight, do gaming w Godot Engine hits over 50K euros per month in funding

    This is really exciting to see. Enshittification is generating increasing backlash against incumbent monopolies, and encouraging more movement toward sustainable open source software.

    See Blender, too.

    Sibbo, do games w Oxenfree is being completely removed from itch.io in October

    No reason has actually been given as to why. Most likely, this is coming from Netflix, who actually acquired Night School Studio back in 2021. Probably as they’re trying to pull in more people to play games under their umbrella directly on Netflix.

    It’s sad that digital subscription services reserve the right to remove your subscription. If you are in EU, consider signing the Stop Killing Games Petition

    Cris16228,

    Fuck netflix?

    AlexanderESmith,

    Fuck netflix.

    haui_lemmy,

    This is the way

    fartsparkles, do games w Risk of Rain creators Hopoo Games join Valve

    I have a strong feeling they’ll be working on Deadlock given their experience with third person hero shooters with crazy items that change your build.

    Which is a shame because Deadlock is destined for the land of toxicity most other MOBAs exist in unless they do something meaningful to change the game’s design.

    spacedout,
    @spacedout@lemmy.ml avatar

    How so?

    fartsparkles, (edited )

    Snowballing

    30/40min games where you’re unable to concede when loss is clear early on (causing other team mates to become stressed and rude). Games can sometimes be decided in 5 minutes yet there can potentially another half hour to go before you have a chance to requeue with different team mates.

    One team mate’s mistake early on can lead to the opposing team snowballing and the rest of the team becomes toxic due to the first point.

    The respawn timer increasing in length penalises the team further for being behind the enemy team, and the downtime as someone is waiting to spawn gives them time to type and be toxic. By mid-game, I’ve seen some players spend as much time waiting to respawn than they did playing.

    Losing begets losing.

    Macro and Meta

    The volume of items leads there to be objectively better builds (and meta after each patch as items stats are changed) leads expectations on all team mates to follow that meta and know which build to play otherwise they get raged on.

    Map awareness is more important that aiming and it takes the whole team to remain aware of the map for success.

    The lack of transparency as to why a person is losing to another (item selection, ability upgrades etc) irritates players into feeling cheated.

    Competitive

    As a competitive game, players are trying to prove themselves yet, as a team game, individual performance can’t make up for a weak team thus rage. Competition drives emotion.

    Note: I played Deadlock for about 15 to 20 matches but all the typical MOBA issues emerged within a couple of games, I’ve already bounced off of it.

    Lojcs,

    You write like an ai

    fartsparkles,

    Shud i rite bad then?

    offspec,

    I haven’t enjoyed any other mobas, but I’ve put ~100 hours in to this one. The comeback mechanics seem fine enough, I’ve had a few games that have come back from a ~30k soul difference/

    skulblaka,
    @skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Same, I haven’t even slightly enjoyed any other MOBA I’ve played except for Smite, but I’ve fallen in with Deadlock like it’s an old friend. And we’ve come back and won from a couple really depressing looking matches. Just the other day I was at 0/12 running Bebop with a 25k team soul deficit and once I actually got my head in the game, and got a little lane assist, we came back and won it and I finished with a 10/14 K/d.

    The comeback isn’t easy, and it shouldn’t be, but it’s doable. Especially so if your opponents get cocky. I’ve been on the other side of that coin as well, going 10/0 with Vindicta and fly out to snipe without a care in the world, to discover that every enemy is suddenly paying attention to where I am.

    Virkkunen,
    @Virkkunen@fedia.io avatar

    I think we oughta wait for the game to at least leave the alpha, where huge changes happen from night to day, before concluding how toxic the game and mechanics will be

    fartsparkles,

    Totally, my comment is with regards to the current state of the game and so far they’ve fallen into the same pitfalls as other MOBAs.

    Personally, allowing the team to vote to concede and to get rid of increasing respawn timers would help a lot in getting rid of the biggest causes of frustration noted so far however these were comments about DOTA2 and sadly Valve never implemented them there either.

    0xD,

    Because that’s just game balance. Toxicity is a people problem.

    It’s fine that you don’t enjoy that kind of game - there are plenty of others.

    Buttflapper,

    Deadlock is destined for the land of toxicity

    I don’t think we should assume this right away. TF2 isn’t really all that toxic (that I am aware of). Valve tends to attract less toxic people in general. OW2 however, hoo boy… that game is agonizing to play. People will not hesitate to insult you.

    SpacetimeMachine,

    TF2 isn’t designed to be as competitive as deadlock. It’s a goofy game that’s mostly just designed for fun. (Competitive TF2 does exist and I am a fan of it but it’s not really officially supported in any meaningful way.)

    Deadlock on the other hand is designed to be a very competitive MOBA where individual decisions will greatly change a games outcomes. I would look at DOTA as a better comparison than TF2.

    SmilingSolaris,

    I play both overwatch and counter strike. While overwatch does a great job of making sure I don’t see slurs most of the time, the community is toxic af. I can’t go a single game without someone saying “tank diff, DPS diff, support diff” and whatever else directed insult they got.

    Counterstrike on the other hand, surprisingly wholesome. Many games players will say good try after you fail and be pretty supportive. Sometimes you get assholes who just say slurs cause they can of course but that’s like, once or twice a month. Overwatch is literally every god damn match minus the slur part.

    Kecessa,

    I’ve got a solution!

    Just refuse to play those games and go dig rocks and stones instead!

    Ffkhrocks,

    Did someone say “rock and stone?

    Ibaudia,
    @Ibaudia@lemmy.world avatar

    My experience playing it so far has been pretty overwhelmingly positive. No one really cares who wins, it’s more fun to just make cool plays and do well individually.

    Graphy, (edited )

    That’s just new competitive games in general though. The best time to play a pvp game is the first month when there isn’t a clear meta yet and everyone’s having a good time.

    KombatWombat,

    It also helps that there isn’t a competitive mode yet. Until recently it didn’t even track your stats in a visible way. Also, people can only get in by being invited, so you have to have had at least one person who has vouched for you in some way, which probably selects against the most toxic personalities.

    myliltoehurts,

    Except there is (of course) a mega thread on Reddit to get invites where people blindly invite anyone.

    Graphy,

    Sadly it’s pretty easy to get an invite. I got one from a few friends and they told me they just sat in a weird discord asking for invites.

    BruceTwarzen,

    I felt the same way about the finals. The beta was amazing and i played it every day. It was just good fun. When the game released it was all meta builds and abusing every mechanic known to mankind.

    BURN, do games w Microsoft - keep your filthy hands off Valve, leak shows MSFT would buy Valve

    There’s no chance GabeN sells Steam. It prints money and only looks to increase their profitability over the coming years.

    Microsoft can’t buy them anyways at this point I think. The regulatory bodies didn’t like ActiBlizzard, and this would be similar scale, if not larger

    CrabAndBroom,

    I do worry about what might happen when he gets too old/decides to step down though.

    If Microsoft did somehow end up buying them I might have to just nope out of gaming altogether. Or just take to the high seas I guess.

    BURN,

    I have to imagine he has something planned (inb4 GabeN AI Overlord) for after he’s gone.

    He’s a bit crazy about prepping for disaster iirc. He lives in New Zealand now and has since the Covid outbreak. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a very long document that lays out a lot of rules for if he’s gone and Steam is to continue

    Sabata11792,
    @Sabata11792@kbin.social avatar

    Do we get a free copy of the new Gaben AI wiafu?

    TurnItOff_OnAgain,

    gAIben

    RoyaltyInTraining,
    @RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world avatar

    In the immortal words of Cave Johnson:

    Brain mapping, artificial inteligence - we should’ve been working on it thirty years ago

    bionicjoey,

    Holy shit, what if Cave was based on Gabe

    Zetta,

    Pretty sure he’s back living in the US, so he can actually work at the valve offices

    redcalcium,

    At that point I’ll probably too old and have lost interest in gaming anyway, so I’ll just let the next generation of gamers figure it out themselves. Kinda like boomers leaving us to deal with high property price problem because it’s no longer their concern anymore.

    master5o1,

    Nah it’s still their concern too. They’re mostly just on the beneficial side of it.

    HKayn,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    You do know that stores other than Steam exist, right?

    And no, I’m not talking about the EGS.

    BURN,

    GOG is missing a good portion of major games. Outside of that most of the options are much worse

    CrabAndBroom,

    Also they seem really averse to Linux for some reason.

    brawleryukon,
    @brawleryukon@lemmy.world avatar

    Probably the miniscule market share coupled with the increased vocality of its userbase.

    Supporting Linux will not bring them a significant uptick in revenue but will increase their customer support load.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

    Nothing else comes close to steam in terms of market share.

    HKayn,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    Isn’t that a bad thing?

    Neato,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    Amazon kinda exists?

    CrabAndBroom,

    Yeah but just the amount of games I own on Steam already (not to mention the Steam Deck), if all that ended up getting enshittified by Microsoft it’d be like having to start over from scratch pretty much.

    HKayn,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    Which is why I buy as many games as I can from stores like GOG, that actually let me keep them no matter what.

    brawleryukon,
    @brawleryukon@lemmy.world avatar

    EGS is really the only thing remotely close to what Steam does, though.

    GOG will always be an afterthought as long as they have their DRM-free policy in place. They’re super cool, but they’re a niche and will never grow beyond that without losing what makes them cool.

    Origin (or whatever EA’s calling their store now) gave up pursuing third-party sales years ago. They still do it, but they clearly have no interest in actually making a go of becoming an actual competitor to Steam.

    The Windows Store is terrible for a number of different reasons, even if it’s better than Microsoft’s previous attempts at getting into this space (coughGWFLcough). EGS is more likely to overtake Steam than Windows Store is to even rival EGS.

    Uplay (or, again, whatever Ubisoft is calling their store these days) is like Origin - I don’t even know for sure if Ubi is doing third-party sales, but if so, it’s very much an afterthought for them.

    And then everyone else just sells Steam keys. They’re not in the same market as the others, so don’t really fit into this conversation. If you’re 100% reliant on the store you’re “competing” with, you’re not competing with them.

    HKayn,
    @HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

    A lot of games on Steam are DRM-free, but not (yet) on GOG. GOG isn’t an afterthought just because of their DRM-free policy, it’s also because they’re so small.

    paholg,

    What else lets me easily play games on Linux, on my couch, without touching a keyboard or mouse?

    Neato,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    The regulatory bodies didn’t like ActiBlizzard,

    But they did allow it, unfortunately. And MS could simply argue that it already has dominance in the PC space as 96% of PC gamers are Windows users. So owning Steam is just buying 1 out of many stores (here they tout Epic, Amazon, etc).
    I mean it's a bad argument but MS made a lot of bad arguments to get their way and they seemingly worked.

    lorty,
    @lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

    Activision-Blizzard-King isn’t a dominant company in any segment. You can’t say the same for steam. Regulators would have a much easier time blocking such an acquisition.

    Buddahriffic,

    Plus, at least from my perspective, Activision-Blizzard was already bad enough that if MS made it worse, it wouldn’t affect me because they were already bad enough that I’d swore off their games. MS owning them was an improvement or at worst more of the same.

    That’s absolutely not the case for Valve. They are one of the few large companies that I respect plus they are playing a big role in breaking the windows stranglehold over OSes when you like to play games.

    The level of popular opposition to MS acquiring Valve would be on a whole other level than the opposition to the blizzard acquisition. It might even rival the opposition to Nvidia acquiring ARM.

    Neato,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    CoD is dominant fps. It's why they made the concession about it

    echo64, (edited )

    The regulatory bodies hand waved actiblizzard through. Let’s not pretend anything else happened there. Microsoft can do whatever they want and no one is gonna stop them. Same as every other big company.

    The only thing stopping Ms. is that valve is a privately owned company. But everyone has a price.

    lorty,
    @lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

    The same regulatory bodies that sued to block the deal without any convincing case “handwaved” it?

    echo64,

    Yes, that is just how the American system works. The actual body here is the doj. The ftc tried to sue and was slapped back immediately. This was the ftc trying to show claws and the actual ruling body saying no, you have no power and Microsoft can do what they want.

    It was a huge loss for the ftc that has been trying, and failing to fight big tech

    TheDemonBuer, do games w SteamOS massively beats Windows on the Legion Go S
    @TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world avatar

    What’s wild to me is that these games were all developed to run on Windows, not SteamOS or any other Linux distro. This is with the games requiring a compatibility layer to run. Imagine what they could do if the games were made to run on SteamOS.

    fuckwit_mcbumcrumble,

    That’s the magic of proton, and all of the tools that make it work.

    DXVK alone is incredible.

    olafurp,

    That’s all because Wine is not an emulator

    NocturnalMorning, do games w Godot Engine hits over 50K euros per month in funding

    Yeah, now I’m concerned this might happen with Unreal Engine, even though they’ve given no indication that it will. Once Godot works out the kinks with level and texture streaming, and has a landscape editor I will be going back to Godot.

    AProfessional,

    Proprietary software can never be truly trusted. You are always at their whims.

    abbotsbury,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    Unreal is completely open source, you can compile it yourself.

    AProfessional,

    It is source available, under the terms Epic licenses to you. Not Open Source

    jimbo,

    When did the term “open source” start including specifics about licensing terms? My understanding from the past few decades was that “open source” meant the source was available for people to look at and compile.

    WaterSword,
    @WaterSword@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Open source has always meant under a free license. Being able to fork and publish your own versions is integral to the open source philosophy.

    abbotsbury,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    Being able to fork and publish your own versions is integral to the open source philosophy

    No, that is an enumerated freedom of the free software movement, not open source

    WaterSword,
    @WaterSword@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Open-source software (OSS) is computer software that is released under a license in which the copyright holder grants users the rights to use, study, change, and distribute the software and its source code to anyone and for any purpose. from Wikipedia

    The same article also talks about the difference between open source and source available:

    Although the OSI definition of “open-source software” is widely accepted, a small number of people and organizations use the term to refer to software where the source is available for viewing, but which may not legally be modified or redistributed. Such software is more often referred to as source-available, or as shared source, a term coined by Microsoft in 2001

    abbotsbury,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    Under that strict definition, software under the GNU GPL would not be “open source” because the license stays with the code, and is not truly “for any purpose,” which is the same deal with the Epic license: you may use, study, change, and distribute the Unreal source code, but it stays under Epic’s license.

    If you are talking about the FREEDOM to fork and publish and share and whatever, then you mean Free software.

    heckypecky,

    You are not allowed to distribute unreal source. From their FAQ:

    Unreal Engine licensees are permitted to post engine code snippets (up to 30 lines) in a public forum, but only for the purpose of discussing the content of the snippet

    abbotsbury,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    But the code is easily visible and you can compile it yourself. If you say “I only run software I 100% knows what it does because I can read it’s source code” then Unreal Engine fits, it’s open source.

    rbits, (edited )

    That’s not why people want an open source game engine though, they want it to be open source so that they can’t do a unity

    I agree the phrase “open source” is a bit confusing

    abbotsbury,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    they want it to be open source so that they can’t do a unity

    That has nothing to do with open source, that has to to with licensing, which I’m pretty sure isn’t an issue anyway since I think Unreal versions are tied to specific license versions, i.e. if you download the engine under one term, thats the only one you have to use

    AProfessional, (edited )

    Ideas started in the 70s, Free Software Movement happened in the 80s, the term Open Source from the 90s as an alternative to “free” to be more clear.

    It always meant this.

    abbotsbury,
    @abbotsbury@lemmy.world avatar

    It is source available

    Yes, open source.

    Not Open Source

    You mean free/libre? Open source literally just means you can see the source.

    AProfessional,

    Open source is source code that is made freely available for possible modification and redistribution. Products include permission to use the source code,[1] design documents,[2] or content of the product. The open-source model is a decentralized software development model that encourages open collaboration.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

    AstridWipenaugh,

    And then later on…

    Generally, open source refers to a computer program in which the source code is available to the general public for use or modification from its original design.

    Unreal Engine is technically open source, because it’s source code is made available to the general public. But it is licensed under a restrictive EULA instead of any of the normal licenses you’d expect for an open source project (MIT, Apache, GPL3, etc).

    This is definitely pedantic, but “open source” is a colloquial term, not a technical one. Most people mean FOSS when they say open source, but the terms aren’t exactly equivalent. The license that governs the code is really the only part that actually matters.

    Anamana,
    @Anamana@feddit.de avatar

    Let’s just call it OpenSource+ at this point ;)

    thantik,
    NocturnalMorning,

    Nice, it’s been 6-7 months since I used Godot. Glad they got a terrain editor ported over.

    Epicurus0319,

    Long-term I think corporate tech as we know it is screwed. Their explosive growth from the pandemic making everyone terminally online is drying up as more and more people go back to touching grass, so now the bill’s coming due and it’s only a matter of time now before Unreal also does something stupid we can’t even imagine for a quick buck

    elscallr,
    @elscallr@lemmy.world avatar

    People were terminally online well before 2019. It exacerbated the problem but we’re not going back. I don’t really think that’s a problem, technologically it pushed us further ahead which is always a good thing.

    You’re right in that we are starting to rediscover what it means to be physically social again. I think that’s a good thing, too. People that got away with shit before aren’t getting away with it any more.

    WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

    The problem is that interest rates have gone up after being extremely low ever since the 2008 crash, so investors lost their endless supply of debt-fuelled free money. They can’t pump money into companies operating at a loss anymore, so suddenly those companies have to find a way to turn a profit.

    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    And some of them realistically can’t. Every other commercial game engine is developed for the studio first; Cry, Source, Unreal etc. These engines were made for, well, Far Cry, Half-Life 2, Unreal Tournament. The studio saw returns for engine development in the sales of games, then they said “We could probably further monetize the work we’ve already done if we license the engine and SDK out to third parties.”

    Unity on the other hand is trying to have the Autodesk/Adobe business model of “We have a free student or hobbyist tier, and then a commercial license that’s $100,000 per minute per seat.” The thing is, Autodesk and Adobe really don’t have realistic competitors in their market sectors. Unity very much does. Unity competes directly with GameMaker Studio, Godot, Unreal, Source 2 among others, the development of which are either directly supported by the sales of first party titles (or are outright FOSS projects in the case of Godot). So Unity has to set their prices to compete in that market, without the support of first party game sales.

    You can see how that’s working out for them.

    RockHornet,

    The biggest thing about Epic is that it is NOT a publicly traded company.

    It doesn’t mean that it’s not subject to the “Infinite Growth Disease” but look at their biggest investor: Sony and Tencent.

    Both Game companies that SHOULD be more interested in having access to a good game engine than to make every dollar’s possible.

    sonymegadrive, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

    Easy Anti Cheat - requires manual removal

    Wait, so this sketchy, privacy-invading stuff remains even after a game is uninstalled?! I had no idea.

    How is this stuff not classed as malware at this point?

    sp3tr4l,

    Oh it was initially classed as insanely intrusive malware when kernel level AC was introduced about a decade ago, by anyone with a modicum of actual technical knowledge about computers.

    Unfortunately, a whole lot of corpo shills ran propaganda explaining how actually its fine, don’t worry, its actually the best way to stop cheaters!

    Then the vast, vast majority of idiot gamers believed that, or threw their hands up and went oh well its the new norm, trying to fight it is futile and actually if you are against this that means you are some kind of paranoid privacy freak who hates other people having fun.

    Crozekiel,

    I’ve been shouting from the rooftops for years that this stuff is malware. I’m not the only one. No one listens.

    mrvictory1,

    EAC installation process includes “registration” of a game, and the uninstall process “unregisters” the game. If all games using EAC are uninstalled, EAC itself also should be uninstalled.

    catloaf,

    Wikipedia says malware is

    any software intentionally designed to cause disruption to a computer, server, client, or computer network, leak private information, gain unauthorized access to information or systems, deprive access to information, or which unknowingly interferes with the user’s computer security and privacy

    It does not do any of these things. Like any software, it may have vulnerabilities, and being a kernel module it can be high risk. But that’s no different from any kernel module, like your graphics driver.

    michaelmrose,

    It’s a much higher risk than average because games are often abandoned within one year of release and still run as long as 10-15 years later and connects to the internet and other randos on the internet. See the Call of Duty games that allow you to take over the computer of anyone who connects to your online match. It greatly degrades the security of its users.

    Technically lots of things people call “malware” don’t actually do any of those things. For instance they may hijack your default search engine, pop up ads, or otherwise monetize your computer at your expense. The category that was invented by ass coverers is “possibly unwanted program” but outside of those who worry about being sued by scumbags people colloquially refer to both what you call malware AND PUPs as "malware the root of which is “bad” after all. Language being descriptive not prescriptive I think this broader definition of malware is fine.

    cyberpunk007,

    It unknowingly interferes with my security or privacy, 100%. It has root access. What’s it doing in there? Nowadays you’re naive to think it’s just to prevent game cheating. I guarantee they’re collecting all kinds of information.

    michaelmrose,

    Do you remember when Sony released cds that when inserted into Windows computer auto ran an installer that installed a rootkit that made it impossible for Windows to see any processes or files that started with a certain sequence of characters instantly turning any malware that named its files or processes similarly powerful rootkit. Oh and it installed a cd driver that made it impossible to copy their music.

    Suggested removal was a full reinstall of windows.

    Xttweaponttx,

    Jesus christ

    yamanii,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    Plenty of games use it, if it uninstalled with each one then others would stop working.

    cyberpunk007,

    I kind of assumed it would be packaged with each game, a waste of space (but how big could it be?) but leaving a game with anti cheat a global dependency seems like a bad idea.

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