Yeah, what they’re asking for is pretty standard stuff in other media. A friend of mine is an actor who played a scene where he had to shoot a masturbation scene. He was alone in a room with like 3-4 people: sound guy, camera guy, director, and I think the intimacy coach was there too.
Having a whole team watch you pretend to have sex is not okay, what the hell.
I mean, most of the team should be watching because they’re trying to do their jobs, not because they’re ogling the actors. And this is even more removed from sex than movies’ simulated sex, because I assume they’re in full mocap suits and everything.
Hell, you don’t even need both people doing motion at the same time, as long as you have the poses roughly correct. You can edit the motion curves to make the rhythm match.
I wonder if that would be a genuine use case for “AI”. If the voice actor consents to have his voice represented in such a scene but doesn’t want to play it out in a studio, the computer model could take over that part.
I don’t believe you’re wrong here in saying that. These don’t seem like unreasonable asks at all, and something I’d expect to be normal standards for the industry.
They are the bare minimum that should be expected. Honestly, the studios who did this should be named and shamed. The actors shouldn’t ever have to deal with this, and I’m sure the studio would lose far more money than they could wish to gain by being deceptive. It’s capitalism. They’re after profit. Make honesty the most profitable option or you’ll get dishonesty.
Yes, these precipts seem to be common in the TV industry
Ms Jefferies stresses the guidelines are not trying to put boundaries on storytelling … She says - and “these guidelines are just to bring it even more in line with the best practices in the film and TV industry”.
And I can’t think of news stories that show this is a problem in terms of leaking a story.
So, why not have the same degree of safety and protocols in game development?
With THIS context added, yeah I see why people are mad. I thought this was the usual “Video games are too sexy!” nonsense we’ve had ever since we saw Princess Toadstool’s ankles for the first time back in 1964… But uhh, wow… This
This is just outright fucked, I would even argue this could legally count as a form of sexual assault. IANAL though
ok so like, is video game acting like the worst field on earth, could you not just, refuse to do this? Seems like a fully reasonable thing to do to me.
And on the other side we have the Baldur’s Gate actors praising Larian for hiring intimacy coordinators and not requiring themselves to mocap the sex scenes.
Edit: Ah, just saw that this is addressed at the end of the article.
Yes, quite. I’m a regular practitioner of touch-stimulated emotional relief aided by intimacy content distributors on the digital nexus of information.
Actor here. Doing intimacy scenes is surprisingly difficult, arguably more so than combat, because usually people train and get certified in sword and dagger, rapier, firearms etc to get cast
When working a job, putting your mouth on another person’s mouth is a very unusual act, and you want your actors - regardless of gender - to feel safe, comfortable, professional and not exploited - not to mention you might spend 2x 14 hours days on this sequence from multiple angles getting it the same every time
Just in case you skip to the comments: the complaint is that actors are not being told anything about what game they are working on or what kind of scenes they will be doing. Then, they show up to the studio and they are asked to do explicit sex scenes or sexual assault scenes day-of with little warning or time to consider whether they are comfortable with that.
What a shitty title to the article. It should be "Actors demand action over unanticipated video game sex (and rape) scenes". Especially if the actor may be a rape survivor, asking them to act that out without any warning is idiotic at best and harmful at worst.
There are absolutely actors who are down to do that stuff but you can’t hire people with a script sight-unseen and just drop stuff on them that might straight up give some people a panic attack to even think about, let alone re-enact.
Title makes you think there are actors who don’t want games in general to contain explicit adult content, but this is 100% reasonable, and yet another reason voice actors and game industry workers need to unionize.
I bet your ass the same shit is happening with asset creators and animators.
I think they actually are unionized. At least in the UK. That’s what some of the Baldur’s Gate 3 actors said when asked about the anti AI strikes. They can’t participate because of the rules of their union.
If I recall correctly there is even a sentence in the article about the British union starting to tackle this issue.
In some countries, some people, in some parts of the industry, are unionized. It’s not even close to being the norm. It’s only slowly starting to happen.
Years ago I used to play tabletop RPG games. One time I met a guy and we became friends. We’ve seen each other on the weekly gaming sessions but every now and then he was unavailable due to other arrangements. At some point I learned he was spending some weekends with his disabled neighbor playing various card games and (pardon lack of specific language) some warhammer figure like strategies. I said I would like to be a part of those sessions and eventually we formed an unusual “fellowship”. Few years later when the disabled boy passed away, his mother said that these weekends were what kept him going.
There’s a lot of straight up porn games out there so who knows what kind of shit these actors end up in when they show up for a generic “motion/voice capture for video game” gig.
There have been a lot of borderline stunt castings over the years. Patrick Stewart was in like 30 seconds of TES4 and Sean Bean was in about 10 minutes of it. Hell, Bruce Campbell was in all of Tachyon: The Fringe (which is like the fifth best space dogfighting game ever).
But they were largely wasted. Kristen Bell… she is spectacular within a narrow range and “generic girl in the chair” is not it. And then there was the (alleged?) contract dispute that led to her being a baddy that gets killed off real fast. And that was largely the case. It was “get a b/c-tier actor/actress and find out that voice acting is very different than camera acting”
In more recent years we started to see a big emphasis on VAs doing the motion cap as well and Christopher “Teal’c” Judge made Kratos “I moved to a non-extradition treaty pantheon” of Sparta into a woobie. And people very much underrate how good of a job Camilla Luddington and a few other performers have done over the years.
But… we still have shit like Rosario Dawson in Dying Light 2 where “okay… she was there?”.
For its many many many many many flaws and problematic aspects, I think CDPR did an amazing job with their “stunt casting” for Cyberpunk. Because Keanu knocked it out of the park (when he wasn’t just talking about his magnificent cock) and everything I have seen of Idris Elba’s performance is similarly good.
And it kind of does mark a paradigm shift. Because it is no longer getting David Hyde Pierce to do a cameo as a camp gay counselor or a snooty over the top version of Niles. It is more like getting Ted Danson because you need a character who can simultaneously be a sleazy asshole and also the kind of person you just want to open up to and tell all your problems. It isn’t the kind of performance that you get for a single episode of sweeps week or to make people tune in even after your lead actor fucked off. It is the kind of performance you build a show/movie around.
The problem is that he really IS wooden and obnoxious for basically the entire first two acts or so. It isn’t until you have that conversation outside the motel (?) that he is allowed any range.
And… that is also around the time the game falls off massively in terms of quality. It isn’t quite Obsidian levels of “We ran out of money” but it definitely shows what they spent time on and what they just had to get working to release.
Which sucks because that is actually when they delve into the character of Johnny (particularly WHY he hates Arasaka so much) and you start having actual conversations with him… unless it is a side mission where they all default to antagonistic first hour mode.
I mostly agree with this. I really enjoyed the more insightful, introspective Johnny and there wasn’t enough of it. With that being said, I’m a few hours into Phantom Liberty and it seems that we get a lot more of the meaningful conversations with Johnny.
Sean Bean also voices most of Civ 6 and it's glorious. Say what you will about it from a mechanical perspective but I can't find fault with his voice lines. He gets to read some of the greatest quotations from history and for the most part he nails it.
Might just be me enjoying Nimoy in most everything, or maybe ta just that Civ 4 is still the best of the series, but I really liked his lines in that one.
Lots of memorable ones but “the bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy” always sticks out as one of my favorites.
TESIV Oblivion is 2006, Tachyon The Fringe is 2000… 1994’s Wing Commander III: Heart of the Tiger has a whole IMDB page, with the likes of Mark Hamill, John Rhys-Davies, and Malcolm McDowell playing main characters.
And there’s earlier games with less stellar casts, like 1991’s Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum. Actors in games have been a thing for quite a while.
This kind of thing has been going on for at least 30 years. One of the earliest examples is Night Trap starring Dana Plato. You may not know who that is, but anyone who grew up watching Diff'rent Strokes certainly does. If you want a more mainstream example, look at Ripper from 1996 which features Christopher Walken, Paul Giamatti, Karen Allen, Burgess Meredith, David Patrick Kelly, Ossie Davis, and John Rhys-Davies.
Wing Commander III a 1994 release had Mark Hammill, Malcolm McDowell , and Tim Curry. Video game actors , voice actors and mainstream actors have intertwined for many years.
The game was kickass for a kid who loved all kinds of weird action games! I probably shouldn’t try it again and ruin my memories of it.
But a top down shooter where you could fire in different directions than you were walking was revolutionary for a kid who had mostly played metal gear solid on his new PlayStation.
Not surprised. But I had never seen a game like that by then. And very rarely after too. Most recent one I played was… Alien Swarm, I think? I loved that one too.
To be fair, they were often arcade games which required two joysticks. I had a game for my Amiga that I don’t remember the name of that used the keyboard to do it.
Sex scenes are common in modern games - and are often made by filming human actors who are then digitised into game characters.
Is “common” referring to cringey low budget Steam games? I don’t think I’ve seen any sort of on screen simulated sex in a game, ever. Granted I tend to only play well publicized indie games and larger releases. But how common is this? Am I out of the loop?
I only played partially through the first and the most graphic sexual thing I remember there were the little cards you'd get, which don't require any actors.
I don’t recommend it, but going bass-to-mouth was a very popular and hyped feature addition for SEGA Bass Fishing. I’m surprised this is the first you are hearing of it
The Witcher and Cyberpunk I’ll give you, but Mass Effect definitely fades to black before getting to actual sex, the other two are mods. I wasn’t saying sex in games doesn’t exist, but if we’ve gotta go back several decades for a handful examples, that doesn’t feel like something that’s “common.”
Yeah, there was a whole kerfuffle about it because all the files were still on the disc, therefore some jurisdictions re-rated the game to some version of adults only. Rockstar definitely did all the development work to get that sex in the game, they just decided not to show it in normal gameplay.
I think “common” here would refer to having to produce them, over the actual explicitness of the scene. Whether Mass Effect fades to black or not isn’t really the point when the voice actors still have to record the lines that play while the screen is dark.
ME is like cuddles that fade to black, The Witcher is funny little drawn cards you get after a fade to black, San Andreas was a mod as the actual function was never part of the released game - and those animations definitely were not mo-capped, no idea wtf a fishing game has, CP2077 kinda the same as ME but a bit more raunchy I guess. But even those very non explicit examples are a tiny fraction in the grand scheme of things, even among "adult" games.
Witcher 3 and cp2077 definitely had what i’d consider full sex scenes. Like, you don’t have full on piv, but it’s about as close as, say, TV typically gets.
Witcher 3 it is more explicit if you buy the services on offer in the brothel. But it’s still far less than one romp in Wicked Whims, which of course is all mods so no motion capture there
Actual sex scenes are incredibly rare. In most cases, which are still rare, it is implied with some cuddly scenes that fade to black. I think the most "explicit" sex scene I've seen in a regular game was in TLoU Part 2.
Sometimes I forget how unprofessional the game industry still is or how little respect people have for well being of others. I’d like to say I’m surprised but that would require having some expectations towards those companies.
I hope more VAs speak up about stuff like this so we can have some real changes.
I’d say that isn’t the game industry, but it’s basically every company and employer everywhere. Nobody matters. Nobody is important. We’re all expendable seems to be the world.
I’m not really a fan of real A-list actors’ faces in games. Inspired by real faces? Sure. I know the term “immersion” is mocked a lot, but few things force me back to reality than seeing Hollywood megastar multimillionaires in my fantasy world.
I have to agree. I always preferred an A class voice actor for a character that isn’t of celebrity likeness. Honestly hope this doesn’t become the norm.
Edit: I’d also like to add that Idris Elba is a phenomenal actor and I’m excited to play the expansion.
Pretty much this is how the metal gear series ended up losing my interest. I want a good voice actor rather than just celebrities. It’s enshittification.
I’m curious if you feel the same way watching movies? It’s not as if Idris Elba’s live-action movie roles depict “reality”. What is it about the presence of a real actor which breaks your immersion in games but not movies, or do you just feel similarly about both?
It’s not unusual to have big stars in movies. There are movies full of nothing but A-listers. It’s been the norm since before any of us were born. However, I find there are some big actors where their presence overshadows their character (if that makes sense). I do tend to enjoy movies with smaller actors that I haven’t seen quite as many times already.
When it comes to live action I do greatly prefer it when a great performance is from an individual I don’t recognize from previous works. So I don’t see oh it’s blank from X. I only have the reference of seeing only the character, which sells the immersion so much more.
And voice acting when it comes to animation and games has been an area like that where if a woman is voicing a boy, but the voice acting is good I only see the boy. Or someone voices a lovecraftian monster I only see that monster. Or someone who is a different race voices a different race it doesn’t matter because I only see the character and how well the voice suits the sculpted character like Kratos.
The best voice acting performances to me have been ones where I don’t recognize the voice actor. I only see the character, and due to voice acting providing the opportunity where how you look or what your original voice is doesn’t matter. It gives actors the chance to really disappear into a role, but then just showing up as themselves it feels like a lost opportunity.
Like one I think of is Kiefer Sutherland voicing Snake was something I like much more than Norman Reedus in Death Stranding. In MGSV I only saw the character of Snake not Kiefer Sutherland. In Death Stranding I just kept thinking oh hey it’s Daryl from Walking Dead, and I had to actively keep trying to disassociate the actor from the character.
I do look to be immersed in movies, and yes, massive actors are immersion breaking.
Tom Cruise, Idris Elba, Meryl Streep, Leonardo Dicaprio, Bruce Willis, Arnold Schwarzenegger (except Terminator 2), and Hugh Jackman. Can you actually watch these movies without thinking to yourself 99% of the time “wow, Tom Cruise looks cool af in that jacket”?
Yeah, what I’ve always liked about voice acting is that how the person looks or even what their original voice is like doesn’t matter. It’s purely about the voice which makes it much easier for the voice to take center stage, and it allows people to voice other genders, races, species, objects, etc.
This real life person being present as themselves is not a trend I’ve liked. Good voice acting to me has been one where I am emotionally moved by the performance but don’t automatically recognize the voice due to how well and unique the performance is. Plus, I don’t like more regular voice actors being pushed aside by a listers.
I know what you mean. I love JK Simmons voice, and he’s a great VA. But if I compare his role as Omni-Man in Invincible to Ketheric Thorm in Baldur’s Gate 3, I definitely enjoy Omni-Man more, even though Ketheric is modelled after his real face.
It’s also pretty big immersion break when the va changes between installments, so the character model changes. Between Halo War 1 and 2, Professor Anders changed not only the specific person, but the ethnicity of the character.
For me it depends, if the game is a big bombastic hollywood esque block buster then cool, but I don’t see how Keanu benefitted 2077’s story in any way, no matter how much I love him
He didn’t. CDPR just knew that he had a lot of memes about how he’s a really nice and down to earth person, and they figured that that was the kind of good will they needed for their oft-delayed title that was earning them a lot of fury even before it launched.
Like it’s fine if they sell their game on Steam for $40 and another store for $60 as long as the thing on the other store is for that platform and not a key to activate it on Steam.
They just want the price of a game that’s on your Steam library no matter the source to be the same no matter where you purchase it.
That is my understanding. Additionally I have seen no evidence that it is actually enforced either. You could get Ghost of Tsushima for $59.99 on steam and for like $51.xx on another site using keys. Same happened with forbidden west.
The agreement is only between the dev and Valve; 3rd party key sellers like G2A or Eneba usually obtain their keys through trades, buying them from the original seller, or by stealing them (which is an entirely different can of worms). They’re entitely user-driven marketplaces selling second-hand merch.
Doesn’t even have to be sketchy resellers like ones mentioned like g2a. Normal ones like fanatical and humble bundle sell cheaper. Those aren’t user driven market places.
Just have to take a look at isthereanydeals which anyone should do before buying a game.
Mark Hamill is an accomplished VA in his own right. It makes sense that he’d eventually be in games. No one really cares that he used to be Luke Skywalker.
And also largely nonsensical in how they occur and are written. It’s so boring. I mean I would love an actual intimate relationship to contact such a broken world but the devs of course won’t let me, instead I get fanfic writing.
I’ve never been into RPGs and didn’t really understand the appeal. I now regret missing out on the communities that these games can seemingly foster. I was more into Minecraft on my own, which allowed me to escape but the loneliness was probably made worse and thus any low mood that followed.
Really glad I went against my initial instinct that I wouldn’t enjoy this programme as it was really well made.
I was hoping that’d be a Dan video. He has another one about how it’s Rude to Suck at Warcraft, which I found enlightening on how things have changed in WoW
Not only WoW, but most old MMOs were built around being social experiences. The really old ones (Everquest, most notably) were basically chat rooms with games attached. The gameplay was very slow, and you relied heavily on other players to progress, so you spent a lot of time just chatting with people, either in zone chat or in groups or in guilds. Over time, you started to recognize the same names showing up in the same places, or as you progressed, the same players would be progressing at the same pace so you’d keep seeing them as you moved from zone to zone.
It was also a lot easier to build friendships for otherwise socially awkward people. You had an immediate common interest and common goal (advancing in the game), so you had common ground to talk about, and a common activity to enjoy together, but during the downtime, conversation would often shift to other things - where you lived, how old you were, what your hobbies were… so you’d get to know people ‘outside the game’, too.
Nowadays, WoW and other MMOs are much more fast-paced, and much more solo play oriented. There’s still group-required content, but it’s very action-heavy; you don’t have a lot of time that you’re just sitting around chatting, and groups are much more short-term things. 15 or 20 minutes, whereas once upon a time, it was 3+ hours as standard.
I met my oldest friend in an MMO about 24 or 25 years ago… we accompanied each other to a few different games over the years, and now we aren’t playing anything together, but we still talk. I flew across the country to attend his wedding a couple years ago. Similarly, I met my wife in WoW. Our first “date” was killing bugs in Silithus together. We’ve been together for about 18 years.
Old (as in, early-late 2000s) MMOs generated a lot of friendships; this isn’t at all an uncommon story to hear from people who played them at that time.
I doing think it was an one thing, but more-so a build-up over time - a death of a thousand cuts, if you will:
It was a cultural moment generally, just think back to all of those celebrity commercials (“I’m Mr. T and I’m a Night Elf Mohawk”). All cultural moments pass eventually.
The third expansion (Cataclysm) was quite weak to begin with; coupled with a lack of content in the tail-end of the second (Wrath of the Lich King), which itself was incredible - narratively wrapped up the story that began all the way back in Warcraft 3.
So a lot of people chose that time to bow out of the game, as it required a fair bit of time dedication and seemed like an appropriate time to do so - given the narrative pay-off.
Lastly, the introduction of a number of game tools to automate the group composition process meant that the impact of player reputation on servers was severely diminished. Before then, there players who were toxic (stealing items, intentionally killing the group, failing quests) were infamous on a server.
Once this tool was further opened up to allow for groups to form across multiple servers - the sense of community was shattered as you would have no way to know if the person from another server was good/bad etc. it stopped being about bringing in the individual player, and just getting a body in to fill a role.
Most games now have all the “qol” features that remove the need to communicate if that is even possible at all. It is a sad world we live in where everything has to go faster all the time. More dopamine per minute.
I also was in for the first couple of years in wow and even played Dark Age of Camelot before that and some Ultima online also. It was a different world back then. As a gamer I had all the time in the world to sink into these games. As an adult and a parent I got no time to sit down for hours upon hours to play like I did back then but I wish that kids that grow up today should have the same opportunity as I did to experience this.
I read of such stories once in a while. Sadly, I cannot relate because I always played singleplayer games back then, so I missed out on that. But I would like to add that joining pve world events in guild wars 2, there is some chance that there are people chatting publicly like they have known each other for a long time. Not sure what is is worth, though, but it always give good vibes to work together. Me playing mostly wvw (pvp) we (me and my friend) somehow found some likeminded people who invited us to their private voice chat and talk there while playing together. It is not very often, but it is a start, I guess.
Not sure where I was going with that but I though I add what I could I guess. Thank you for reading!
It’s odd, even games like Halo 3 back in the day. I was also a solo player and never thought I fit into a team. I’m a Leroy, I will rush in grenades flying, shotgun blasting so I prefer to play alone. But one time I joined a group and they kept inviting me and we became a unit. They liked that I would rush in the back of an enemy hiding place and flush everyone out with my grenades, shotguns and screaming. I may get killed rushing in there but I’ll take at least one down and flush out the rest for my teammates to pick off.
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