I had to check. They actually said this. I’ve never played Warhammer (I have been interested, just haven’t gotten around to it) and I don’t know these devs at all, but contradicting themselves with just seven words in the same sentence is actually kind of impressive.
One would think the gaming industry and consumers learned from the last 35 mistakes where big AAA titles had a dumpster fire launch because it was unfinished, unoptimized or over promised but no. This is gaming now.
Still attacking the devs and borderline creating a witch hunt is a bit too much. Just vote with your wallet. Or if you bought it refund it ffs.
I blame everyone who pre-orders as well. You are part of the problem!
This was a Kickstarter Project where a lot of people backed
For years the devs didn’t give a lot of information to the backers
There was a class action lawsuit for scamming against the developers because they just took the money and didn’t do anything with it
Now they published something so they can say “here we did something with all of the money” yet it’s obvious that what they developed did not take years.
It’s pretty obvious that they only published the game in the current state because of the lawsuit. The game is a total scam and they deserve the hate from the people that invested a lot of money when backing. Backing on Kickstarter has something to do with trust. Of course, the project may never be finished and that’s okay. But it’s obvious here, that they just took the money and did not use it for the game.
This has nothing directly to do with The Day Before, but: Backing a Kickstarter is something completely different and that has to come into peoples heads. Preorders are for a mostly finished product that will 100% ship. The devs have enough funding from investors and publishers, the game will be released no matter how little preorders they will get. Crowdfunding however is for an idea in its infancy that might never be finished. Crowdfunding is an investment.
But where is the difference in this case, The Day Before? Well, easy: When you invest in a kickstarter, the company has to use the money you invested to actually develop the game. They can’t buy fancy cars with the money, they need to put it to good use. If the company uses the money for their own personal benefit, they can be sued for that. For preorders thats not the case.
I mean it isn't but sort of is at the same time. It firstly depends on what kind of kickstarter it is. There are many ways where its just a system for a publisher to gauge interest in the project. Those are typically just preorders however many others are just throwing money into a well and hoping something comes of it. I get people's hatred of crowdfunding and it can easily be a trap. Where a ton of people are just there to get the money and leg it or who are simply too incompetent to use the funds properly. Hell even experienced developer can be too incompetent, double fine studios/Tim Schafer is a poster child for this. While I love their work, they had a horrid run with crowdfunding and I guess it should have been expected since they are always late and overspend on their budget when they were working with publishers.
Now with all the negatives said, I think crowdfunding in all its forms can lead to wonderful project that simply couldn't have existed due to a lack of interest by publishers. Hell I doubt we would had Baldur's Gate 3 without crowdfunding and this isn't talking exclusively about BG 3 since the Divinity Original sin games really got the ball rolling for Larian Studios. Crowdfunding can lead to the rebirth of genres once thought dead.
That is important because in some jurisdictions “preorder” has legal implications and importantly, obligations for the seller. A kickstarter does not. Not yet at least, over in Germany there’s a discussion about whether crowdfunding is just a form of taking preorders (in the legal sense), which would grant customers the same legal protections then.
Kickstarter is a separate kind of the same problem: Greedy fucks leveraging systems against us. Any time money is exchanged, there WILL be shitheads trying to get some for nothing.
It becomes a problem when the systems at hand reinforce those shysters. Kickstarter is rife with scams, and capitalism in general is rife with lazy greedy fucks. The problem is, they don’t get punished for being lazy greedy fucks.
They have to rip off and harm a bunch of people before anyone will do a damn thing, and even then… If it’s a rich person or corp, the government might just shrug and say it’d be too expensive to enforce the laws…
There is a BIG problem, and it’s not the consumers.
It was the most wishlisted game on Steam, people are actively ignoring all the red flags and blindly throwing their money at anyone who can produce a half decent video online.
I’m not protecting the devs, the whole story is a huge scam and they straight up lied but again:
Stop pre-ordering, paying on kickstarter or buying stuff in early access unless you are absolutely sure you know who gets your money and what you are getting in exchange.
Yes the devs are scum, but does it really justify the cyber witch hunt? A lot of people just hopped on the hype bandwagon and jumped over the hate bandwagon without even knowing the details.
Just fucking refund or sue the bastards. I will only repeat myself: consumers are part of the problem. Stop buying incomplete buggy shit based on promises and pre-order bonuses.
Watch reviews, performance tests before buying. Everything is fucking digital, they will not run out of keys if you wait an extra day.
No meaningless dev of a meaningless video game is ever worth a witch hunt. As a consumer, you have better things to do with your time. Like in this case, digging around in your nose, watching paint dry, or pouring another coffee. All quality uses of time that aren’t the waste that is getting angry at these devs.
Mods are still allowed, they just unselected all of them from the load list with the patch installation and left it up to players to re-enable them manually. It’s the right move to avoid people wondering why the game is horrendously broken should many of their now incompatible mods try to load.
That’s pretty terrible and should put people off buying anything from them. They increased pricing, and when community backlash happens they just ban everyone who dares express an opinion that isn’t positive.
This is why all games should use independent forums moderated by passionate community members. If only there was some federated, open source platform they could move to in order to discuss the game anonymously and without repercussions from the devs…
Its not a surprise either, these guys have put out a couple preview trailers and have been promoting the game for like a year now. Looks cool, been on my wish list for awhile
Specially weird given that there was a whole thing with Neon Prime MAYBE having RTS elements. Someone might confuse themselves crossing those wires. This title just sucks.
I got the game for free, and I’ve been playing it since every three months for a few days, just driving around. I bought the sequel, but it sucked.
I never used the multiplayer component, I treated it like a single player game. And now it’s going to vanish? This whole world? They can’t be serious. This isn’t a multiplayer only title, it’s single player with an optional mp stacked upon it. At least put an offline patch out… Assholes!
But that’s the crux with only buying licenses. Or games with always online requirements. I hope fans find a way to crack the online code!!
Yeah, no one is arguing games shouldn’t have online, just that they continue to work after the devs are done with them, have an End of Life plan like the late Avengers game, or the gacha Megaman X Dive that got an offline version sold on steam and consoles.
I’ve only seen one truly uncomfortable close up and it was when a dialogue initiated right in a doorway so the camera got pushed right up the dude’s nose and I could see the empty space in his head lol
I prefer to play 1st person and I’ve always been quite okay with the camera angle for talking to someone, personally. It’s kinda how I would see people I’m talking to face to face IRL, except I don’t have to look down. I only dislike when multiple characters are involved and it does that jump cut to zoom in on a dude across the room. That’s not natural at all.
Did I say anything about my stance? I just corrected your statement that nothing from Epic is needed. If you feel attacked by that, then maybe try to be accurate next time.
I don’t understand this way of thinking tbh. Its free. Who cares. I never buy anything on epic. I just claim and play free games they give away. I don’t fanboy any corporation.
Yes, Epic launcher is shit. But steams features aren’t all it is praised to be either. I like some of it like the recording feature and steam link. But ANYTHING on steam involving community is absolute garbage. Guides are just meme bullshit. Discussion forums for games are filled with hate speech, points farming and incels. Screenshots is a ton of sexual stuff. Their customer service is horrific. Moderation is almost non existent. CS2 is a gambling similator filled with underaged addicts and Valve profits a ton from them.
I own a steam deck and use it everyday. But only for games because any Steam aspect involving the platform is absolute shit.
So besides games being discounted a ton, Steam is pretty shit and Valve doesn’t give a shit because they rake in money while sitting on their asses.
If you have to install Epic launcher to play it, you might as well pirate. Your odds of installing spyware on your system are much lower on the high seas.
Both Epic and Valve are like multi-billionaires in the gaming industry. So it's silly to me that people are rah-rah'ing for one billionaire over another billionaire. And please spare me the launcher comparisons, I know Steam is like feature rich, though it is because of it's stupid social features and built-in Chromium browser that it had to cut off old OS support.
I don't care for any of that shit, game is a game.
While it would have been nice for OP to mention this, honestly dude, fuck off. People can decide for themselves if they want to install Epic for a free title without this kind of toxic, elitist discourse.
It’s really disappointing the game hasn’t released with mod support. People are making do by editing a few scripts, but full mod support would’ve helped this game so much out of the gate.
it's definitely a full release. i'm like 20 hours in and just scratching the surface with no real bugs to speak of. it's just not mind-blowingly amazing and there are too many loading screens. it's fun enough to entertain me until phantom liberty drops.
Agreed. Holy fuck are there so many unique quests with full voicing (at about 20 hours in). I've heard people say they aren't getting that "losing yourself accidentally seeing five different POIs", but it's definitely still there in a different package.
I get that by going to do one quest, having to stop off at other planets along the way, where I'll poke my head in and talk to whatever named NPCs I see, who'll inevitably give me a few quests, some of which lead to other places where I'll pick up other quests.
It was especially apparent with some random side quest somebody gave me in New Atlantis where I just had to go get a dead drop package from some other planet, which turned out to be the site of the Red Mile which is its own sort of arena/quest that I then enjoyed in the middle of the other quest. I've just been ping ponging around like that picking up stuff and stopping now and again to knock a few out.
The game is fine, and what most people who play Bethesda RPGs expected (or even better).
Also, if I’m not mistaken, previous Beth RPGs released without official mod support and had it added later as well. Almost no game by any company has released with official mod support; almost no game even has official mod support.
Except the whale narrative is largely a false narrative created by the game industry to avoid saying that the money comes from kids and gambling addicts.
Those people with more money than sense do exist and they make up a portion of the mtx money, but the vast majority is from people who probably can’t afford to make purchases like that (but do anyways because their brain can’t say no).
The industry has been honing these skinner box techniques for decades now - it’s what they used to get people to pay a monthly subscription for an mmo they only play when they log in to do their dailies.
Yeah man I know a lot of guys who drop money on shit like this. None of them are “whales”, but i know they’ve dropped hundreds if not thousands on this mtx bs. None of them own homes (which is kinda normal as we are in our 20’s), but only a few of them are even living on their own at all. Something is clearly going on psychologically there, if someone is willing to forego their own needs for cosmetics (that they will later replace with new cosmetics they bought!!)
Also kind of crazy that loot boxes were far less predatory than the current ow2 system is. It was very possible to never buy boxes and get everything. Nowadays? No chance
To a healthy person, the current system is pricier and more aggressive. Things are constantly being shoved in your face, but they’re all purchase-only, and 20€/skin is just absurd.
But, I disagree that it’s more predatory. To a vulnerable person, the new system doesn’t elicit an addictive response, which loot boxes due to their gambling nature do.
I think FOMO is quite a strong motivator for a addictive person. At least loot boxes were obtainable via playing the game. I wouldn’t say I am an excessive gamer, but I still managed to basically get everything over the span of 6 years playing the game. But now you HAVE to spend money to relieve FOMO pressure. Forcing you to spend money is quite predatory.
It was possible to get everything but lets not overlook the inherently manipulative framing of either paying or making the game a second job, which cultivates a sunk cost mindset, which might once again make the player pay out of FOMO.
There are reasonable amounts of grind that can make games fun for some people, but the length of grind and the limited timeframes for obtaining items are all geared to feed into the same monetization cycle. All of that artificially, because it’s not like any digital game has to clear their storeroom and shelves to make space for new collectibles.
Game companies have been very sly about how they use physical real world metaphors to create justifications for their manipulative systems. Lootboxes too, because you can’t guess what’s in a closed pack… except the game keeps perfect track of what is available, what you have and what you don’t have. The only reason why anyone would get repeated lootbox items, is to lead them on and get them to waste money.
Grubby is a good example of someone who was recently reformed. In one of his early Dota 2 videos (some time last year), he admitted that he didn’t know that games outside of Blizzard had gotten so good - he actually only played Blizzard games and nothing else. It’s been pretty wholesome watching someone learn the wider gaming world.
I find it bizarre that someone would ever pigeonhole themselves into one developer. I don’t even know who makes games half the time. There’s only one that I have blocked on Steam.
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