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ms_lane, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"

Skyrim was made with a staff of around 100 people.

Starfield was made with a staff of around 450. It’s worse in almost every way.

Too many cooks.

grrgyle,

Also too many mouths to feed. When you’ve got so many people (including admin) to keep paying, then you can’t “afford” to make a cute little experiment. You’ve got to go huge production, latest fads, cutting edge, and super broad appeal.

What kind of identity can a game like that even hope to have?

A_Random_Idiot,

One that appeals to a mindless horde of idiots that need the newest shiny.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

So, a hit…?

Carbonizer,

No, a game crammed with psychological tricks to keep players addicted while milking them dry through microtransactions.

exu,

You’re forgetting all the labor by mod authors to fix Skyrim.

/s kinda

ArcaneSlime,

And skyrim<Oblivion<Morrowind. I don’t like the trend.

HawlSera, (edited )

Morrowind is only “good” because of nostalgia goggles Oblivion > Morrowind

BlackLaZoR, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"
@BlackLaZoR@kbin.run avatar

Netflix is also working on a live-action film adaptation

This totally won't be a disaster.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

There have been quite a few great video game adaptations lately. Last of Us and Fallout come to mind

RampageDon,

Neither of which were Netflix series. They just have a way of ruining franchises

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Castlevania and Edgerunners were good but I recognize those aren’t live action.

grrgyle,

They’re going to hyperfocus on the shades and the armblades, and totally miss the whole point of the series, I guarantee it.

ShaunaTheDead,

I would argue that Bioshock is one of the few video game franchises that would probably do well in a non-interactive story medium. It's a very story driven video game. As long as they trust the writers to respect the source material and come up with a compelling story, I think it could be great. There's always a chance that it's a disaster though.

BlackLaZoR,
@BlackLaZoR@kbin.run avatar

As long as they trust the writers to respect the source material

Witcher flashbacks...

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Fallout flashbacks.

Both can happen.

Kedly,

The book was really good. Unfortunately Infinite made it non Canon

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Interesting. How did Infinite do that? Or was it Burial at Sea?

Kedly,

It was specifically Burial at Sea. Some of the gaps it filled in cant coexist with the gaps that the book filled in

PraiseTheSoup,

Luckily Infinite is the worst game of the series and I have no problem discounting its lore.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

People say that, though it’s my favorite. And I am not alone.

I feel like the DLCs were much rougher, though.

Kedly,

Tbf we can have both. The book hasnt stopped existing just because Infinite came out

sharkfinsoup, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"

Marketing is a big money drain for a lot of games too. Cyberpunk 2077 and GTA V are two games with marketing budgets big enough to finance a dozen other games. I guess a new title like cyberpunk would need more marketing (still not $142 million worth of marketing) but GTA was already a well established franchise that probably didn’t need as much marketing as it had.

Even games like call of duty and assassins creed which have a core fan base that can expect a new game on a regular basis don’t need to market as much as they do.

magic_lobster_party,

I think marketing is always important no matter how established you are. Coca Cola aren’t skimping on their marketing budget even if they’re the most recognizable brand in the world.

It’s about constantly reminding everybody “hey, I exist! Don’t you want to buy me?”.

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe,

I was just talking about this the other day. I think Coke and some companies have reached a saturation point that makes advertisements useless.

I dont know if we have any data to model off of, but I’d love to see if their profits dip by any meaningful amount if they stopped advertising for 3 months straight. Let the movie theaters, and the restaurants, and the culturally embedded soft drink preferences do their thing and see if the dial moves.

magic_lobster_party,

I don’t think they would keep investing in marketing if they didn’t know if it worked. I’m just guessing, but I believe there’s a noticeable bump in sales after a successful marketing campaign.

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe,

And that’s what I think they’re failing to measure. I think they’re unable to accurately divorce the increase in sales from other incentives/market forces, and so they’re just doing what they’ve been doing regardless of actual merit, or the merit is being improperly evaluated

skulkingaround,

Coke keeps running ads because that’s how they keep the brand as a cultural staple. They aren’t trying to sell more coke right now, they’re making sure that people in 50 years will still be buying it.

sharkfinsoup,

I’m not saying they shouldn’t be marketing at all. Just that marketing budgets for many AAA blockbusters have become so bloated, they can account for nearly half of the development cost. As someone with very little knowledge as to how games get made, it seems like some of that money could be better used

magic_lobster_party, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"

It must be some mismanagement issue going on in the games industry. Wrong stakeholders who have no idea of game development influencing the wrong decisions.

BroBot9000, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"
@BroBot9000@lemmy.world avatar

We can’t make art because of capitalism. Fucking sad.

They don’t sell because no fucking company wants to market a product that they can’t milk every fucking cent from. They aren’t producing anything of value, only subscriptions, game passes and addictive gambling loot boxes.

Games as a service is a scam. Stop preordering the latest AAA wank and support indie devs.

More standalone experiences that are unique and creative instead of factory produced sludge.

morphballganon,

There are still good AAA games. The trick is to wait for reviews with gameplay videos and only buy the good ones.

BroBot9000,
@BroBot9000@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, buy them two years later once the bugs have been finally patched and the DRM is ripped out and gameplay doesn’t stutter anymore.

Or just 🏴‍☠️ AAA and give that money to indie devs that are actually trying to produce a unique and creative experience.

HawlSera,

Bro, most of the games I’ve been playing are ports of older titles, Indie Games, or straight up non-profit fan games (Dr. Robotnik’s Ring Racers is the kart game of the ever btw)

xavier666,

I only buy games which are 5 years or older at this point.

HawlSera,

Valid, gotta know which games won’t run on FOMO and if it’s going to be a case like Overwatch where it starts out as a good game and quickly devolves.

Mango,

Try space station 14!

Mango, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"

Make them good instead.

yamanii,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Is Prey 2017 bad? It flopped, as did Okami.

Mango,

I just got it, so I guess I’ll find out.

ByteOnBikes, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"

“We can’t make those games because they don’t sell”

“We” as in Irrational Games? Or “We” as a industry?

Small 20 ppl studios are cranking out some really cool games that don’t need AAA budgets. They will be the ones making the next BioShock.

Donkter,

And AAA budgets could crank out fantastic games if they put all their money into think-tanks full of designers instead of thinking graphics hit as hard as they did 10 years ago.

ThatWeirdGuy1001,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

Or microtransactions/battle passes/dlc.

HawlSera,

The companies that made your favorite games aren’t privately owned anymore, they’re publicly traded now. That’s why it all sucks.

Etterra,

Yeah it’s amazing what you can accomplish when you’re not blowing millions of dollars on the salaries & golden parachutes of completely worthless executives.

yamanii, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Reminder that Arkane was on bad waters before Red Fall, immersive sims just aren’t that popular with a lot of people, and these companies want to do AAA with everything.

HawlSera, do games w Ken Levine says BioShock nearly went nowhere and was almost canceled: "We can't make those games because they don't sell"

Don’t sell? Bukllshit

dan1101, (edited ) do gaming w Star Wars Outlaws doesn't let you free aim and fire from your speeder because Massive didn't want you to "feel as if you can ride in and assault people"

Is unnecessary for me, I suck at driving the speeder.

ETA I figured out 2 things, one is I had a setting that was making one key press count as full throttle instantly, the other was if you hold down right mouse button then that let’s you control the camera instead of it fighting you constantly.

BearOfaTime, do gaming w Star Wars Outlaws doesn't let you free aim and fire from your speeder because Massive didn't want you to "feel as if you can ride in and assault people"

Just reduce accuracy while in a vehicle?

L0rdMathias, do gaming w Star Wars Outlaws doesn't let you free aim and fire from your speeder because Massive didn't want you to "feel as if you can ride in and assault people"

Perfect example of how hopelessly out of touch these suits are. Normal humans see a speeder and think “oh nice, hoverbike thing that’s sweet”. These executives watch the movie, see that the bikes are used sparingly pretty much only during chase scenes and think “oh chase scene, that’s what people love about speeder bikes, the chase scene.”

Melonpoly, do gaming w Star Wars Outlaws doesn't let you free aim and fire from your speeder because Massive didn't want you to "feel as if you can ride in and assault people"

Why the fuck theme it around bounty hunters then?

TallonMetroid,
@TallonMetroid@lemmy.world avatar

Are they actually bounty hunters? The trailer made it seem like they were gladiators competing in a blood sport league.

Alexstarfire,

Does that change the ridiculousness in this statement?

TallonMetroid,
@TallonMetroid@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe not this specific statement, but I think it certainly highlights that everything about the game in general has been kind of a mess.

Devdogg,

That’s a different game called Star Wars Hunter.

Lightor,

It’s around Kay, who is a scoundrel , not a bounty hunter. VERY different.

Melonpoly,

One of the definitions of scoundrel is “A wicked or evil person; someone who dies evil deliberately.” Bounty hunters can be scoundrels too.

If Key was an actual scoundrel it would’ve made the game much more entertaining. The unconfident scrawny teenager Kay is now doesn’t fit in with the outlaw world at all.

Lightor,

You’re using the dictionary definition and ignoring Star Wars established lore and terms.

starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Scoundrel

And she very much fits the mold of a Scoundrel. Have you ever watched Star Wars lol?

Melonpoly, (edited )

I see, I didn’t know that the word meant something different in Star Wars.

And yes I have.

Why does being a scoundrel excuse not having the option to shoot from a speeder?

Lightor,

I doesn’t really, I know they explained why they made the choice. Dunno if I %100 agree with it but playing the game it doesn’t feel like that big of an issue, for me at least.

My point was more to say that she wasn’t a bounty hunter. A BH might be more aggressive and lean into combat more, where a Scoundrel is going to try to use tricks, smooth talking etc.

Melonpoly,

Fair enough, thanks

EighthLayer, do gaming w Star Wars Outlaws doesn't let you free aim and fire from your speeder because Massive didn't want you to "feel as if you can ride in and assault people"
@EighthLayer@lemmy.world avatar

But it’s called Star Wars Outlaws.

BruceTwarzen,

Disney outlaws.

Hadriscus,

Star Wars In-Laws

Zoidsberg, do gaming w Star Wars Outlaws doesn't let you free aim and fire from your speeder because Massive didn't want you to "feel as if you can ride in and assault people"
@Zoidsberg@lemmy.ca avatar

The other part of this decision is just that if we made it so that you can free-aim and shoot from the speeder then we’d also have to then make the speeder drive nicely when you’re not looking forward, which is actually a really hard thing

  • Fredrik Thylander, lead gameplay designer

Is this guy for real?

aStonedSanta,

It’s pretty shit on controller to have to drive and aim at the same time. Keyboard also has its issues as you only have wasd for movement.

luciferofastora,

I mean, go ahead and implement it if you think “That’s pretty hard to do, so we opted not to put significant development resources into one feature” is a poor excuse. If the team is working under pressure already, they’ll have to prioritise and I assume this got shoved down the lst.

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