I willing to bet the new console isn’t significantly better hardware (which was already outdated when the Switch released), but just made to have a system the didn’t already have emulators for it. The Switch emulators work perfectly (better than the console). The new one probably is focused specifically at preventing them from working and not being a better device for consumers.
That website was really tempting… until I remembered that these run on AA batteries and don’t have gyro or a touchpad. M$ really selling an 85$ controller without the features of the 50$ ps5 controller
Edit: apparently dualsense are 75$ now?? Wtf. and apparently they’ve never been 50$? Just discard my comment
Its actually a plus for me. I don’t want to use proprietary batteries and rather use standard AA sized (rechargable) batteries. They can be charged with any battery charger, you can have multiple of them and each pair lasts much longer than any builtin battery. I agree on the other parts for missing gyro and price though.
Yeh this one cost me £4 and came with a recharchable battery pack. I’ve always used my controller wired (playing on PC) but now maybe I’ll try wireless!
If latency was an issue for you, I can assure that its not even for competitive gaming. I played years with friends Fighting games in a competitive manner (offline) and since 360 days it was wireless. And in general with modern controller and batteries, a pair lasts for me at least a week if no longer, when I play at least 5 hours per day. Can’t beat that! Replacement is also cheap. Good if you don’t want to rely on original batteries in the future.
Nah I’ve never had issues with latency and don’t play anything competitive I’ve always just prefered wired to be honest. My favourite controllers were the wired 360 controllers that got rid of the massive bump at the back and were a really nice weight. I wish they did an official modern wired only version.
100%! I love controllers that use AA’s. So much easier to replace the batteries. I’m dreading the day I need to go hunt down replacement batteries for things like my DS, 3ds, Playstation controllers, etc. It’s probably not hard to find replacements. But it requires more work than just whipping out some rechargeable AA’s and calling it a day lol
Deep Rock Galactic, play solo on the lower difficulties and just vibe and mine. Bosco the robot that follows you on solo missions can kill pretty much everything for you most of the time, or you can have it do the mining and tasks while you shoot everything in sight.
I agree. 2009scape scratches the itch that RuneScape provides and it’s playable offline. The game doesn’t have every single quest, but the addictive part is still there.
I’m really happy that the one time I got to visit the UK was during Liz Truss’ time in office. It was wild seeing the protestors, and when I landed back at home I heard she was gone.
The Black Pool is a game I decided to try recently. It reminds me a lot of Returnal in terms of visuals and gameplay, but I don’t expect the story to evolve much beyond the initial “kids lost in the woods trying to get home.”
It’s a 4-player roguelike where you get to choose random elements to slot into different abilities, namely a Primary, Secondary, and AOE attack as well as a jump, dodge, and once-per-world ‘rally’ buff. Each element makes the ability act differently, like a light primary is a slow charging piercing laser while wind is a projectile with knockback, and you also get to upgrade your elemental abilities after each stage you clear. I’m only about an hour into it so far, but I definitely think it deserves a little more than the 29 player peak it got right after it launched.
And DOTA2 has the worst matchmaking I’ve ever seen in casual too. My third game I was placed with the sweatiest sweats and it completely turned me off the game.
I’m pretty sure you can still join servers like that. I haven’t played in years, but last time I did, the server browser was still there. A lot less lively because it was hidden compared to the matchmaking button, but it was still there.
Runs perfectly fine on Linux though, with DX11 or Vulkan. On Windows, Vulkan has some performance issues that make it quite unenjoyable, but in Linux for me it plays a lot better with Vulkan than Windows DX11.
The quality of Proton is not the point, the point is that they’re not dogfooding their own platform. They’ll likely follow the same course as CS2: Lengthy prerelease test exclusively on Windows, then a few days before actual release someone will port the game to Linux/SteamOS and release day is the first day of the Linux port’s alpha test.
How can anybody at Valve expect game publishers to take Steam Deck and SteamOS seriously if the developer of the actual platform is not dogfooding it with their own games?
Yeah I get what you mean, but with Linux gaming I think it's great enough that it runs with Proton and no one is blocking it. I also believe they'll port it to native Linux after the alpha stage is done, but remember that the game is in a closed alpha state, so at no point this should be taken as "Valve not dogfooding their platform". All we can do right now is wait and see.
with Linux gaming I think it’s great enough that it runs with Proton and no one is blocking it.
You clearly missed many news from the gaming sphere.
remember that the game is in a closed alpha state, so at no point this should be taken as “Valve not dogfooding their platform
Yes, it is. Sony is developing their games for PlayStation first and Windows as an afterthought. I’m not saying that Windows should be an afterthought but SteamOS should be a development target from day 1.
All we can do right now is wait and see.
Grab your Steam Deck, install Counter-Strike 2, and look at the state of Source2 games right now.
No. Development occurs on windows machines, so this is where they deploy. It’s essential for a studio to work on core mechanics, gameplay loop and feel. It’s obviously going to be steam deck day one.
Who the actual fuck do you think wants to play cs on a motherfucking steam deck? And again, you of course target your own machine first for a pc game. It’s how 99% of all editors work. Why would you try to argue something that you don’t know how it works?
Valve is probably perfectly happy with just making sure proton compatibility is good. They don’t expect developers to change their whole workflow to cater to the Deck, that’s why they’ve done so much work with proton.
Valve is probably perfectly happy with just making sure proton compatibility is good.
Valve is happy that games break all the time? Yeah, sure buddy. If anybody at Valve was happy with that, maybe that Microsoft agent should lose their job.
They don’t expect developers to change their whole workflow to cater to the Deck
The point of cross-platform middleware is specifically not to “change their whole workflow”. 🙄
that’s why they’ve done so much work with proton.
Valve is also doing much work with SDL and so on to target native development, that’s why it’s embarrassing that they don’t target their own platform. All successful platform holders treat their platform as 1st class citizens: Sony targets PlayStation from day 1 of game development, so does Nintendo with Switch. Apple is not prioritizing Windows either.
Failing platforms are those where the platform vendor doesn’t even believe enough in it to properly support it. Since over a decade Microsoft makes ARM-based Surface devices and to this day Microsoft has ported not a single game, not even casual stuff like Minesweeper, over to Windows ARM. “Microsoft is perfectly happy with just making sure Prism compatibility is good” and yet emulated applications crash, perform worse, and result in battery drain. Similar with Steam Deck: The only way to ensure games perform to their best and don’t unexpectedly break on an update is proper SteamOS native versions.
They are going to add Linux support the game is in alpha.
That’s not day 1. Why do I need to say it over and over again? It’s not like I spelled it out already: CS2 had a Windows-only pre-release and the Linux port was only added to the formal release, resulting in the Linux port being very buggy to this day! Their own platform needs to be the top tier development target from day 1. How is that difficult to understand?
It’s almost as if they are a for-profit company that doesn’t want to waste development time on an OS that have significantly fewer players to sell to and will choose to optimize for Linux as an afterthought.
I use Arch, btw and play only on Linux, so I’m not being biased, just speaking truths.
I wouldn't say that's the case because it's Valve, and they work on a very unique way. Besides, the work they did with Proton, SteamOS and Steam Deck shows that at no point they believe developing for Linux is waste of efforts or an afterthought. They go out of the usual way to make things better for Linux. I fully expect them to port Deadlock to Linux once it hits beta or release.
It’s almost as if they are a for-profit company that doesn’t want to waste development time on an OS that have significantly fewer players to sell to and will choose to optimize for Linux as an afterthought.
Yeah, why would Nintendo develop for Switch or Sony for PlayStation when it’s clearly a waste of development time and and money and Windows is clearly the superior development target?
I’m not being biased, just speaking truths.
No, you speak nothing of truth regarding game development has a platform holder.
Yeah but Valve, who is making this game, made SteamOS and the Steam Deck in house. It’s their own product. It would be a monumentally stupid move to release a first party game that doesn’t run on their own first party hardware.
It’s still niche. You’re living in your dream world, not reality. It’s the entire point of proton - not to have to create two versions of the game. As long as it’s compatible it’ll run nicely on their hardware.
I’m with you in principle, but I think it’s unlikely that Valve are building the game themselves, given that they haven’t done much of that in ages.
It’s reasonable to think their first priorities were finding a development studio [Edit: or even in-house developers] capable producing a good game, and helping them to do so. If the developers are most familiar with Windows tools and APIs, then the path to a successful game would be letting them use those, at least to begin with.
Let’s just hope that they’re being guided along to way toward design decisions that make a native port relatively easy if the game turns out to be good.
Edit:
The project is reportedly led by “IceFrog”, which looked like a studio name when I first read it, but it’s apparently a person. So maybe this is in-house development after all. Great! It would be nice to see Valve making significant games again.
Nevertheless, gathering a team with the talent and vision to make a good game is harder than finding people who can learn a certain API or platform, so if they have the former, it would make sense to let them target the platform they already know and get the game out the door. Doing it in-house just makes it even easier for Valve’s linux folks to guide them in design choices that would simplify multiplatform support later. (Cross-platform development isn’t all that hard if you plan for it from the start instead of painting yourself into a corner.) If the game is well received, it would then make sense to invest more time into training the devs on linux and doing a linux-native port.
Or to put it another way: Yes, Valve has an OS that keeps them independent from Windows, but that’s just one tool in their kit. Proton is another tool. That gives Valve flexibility in how they bring a game to market, and how they prioritize/schedule various phases of the project. This still-unannounced game might be Windows-only for now, but I would not assume that will be forever.
If that studio’s developers are most familiar with Windows tools and APIs, then the path to a successful game would be letting them use those, at least to begin with.
So you’re saying, if Sony or Nintendo made a new console and contracted an outside developer, that developer should develop for Windows instead of the new consoles because they are unfamiliar with the new tools and APIs? Why even develop using Source Engine (2)? Why not also give in to a total Unreal Engine monopoly because that’s what every game developer knows? CS2 on Steam Deck is bad right now.
No, that is not what I said at all. Either you’ve misunderstood, or you’re arguing in bad faith. Given that you’re now pushing an unrealistic all-or-nothing point of view and putting words in my mouth, I think it’s some of both.
Not sure what you mean here with your sarcasm. Proton means that developers can just write games for Windows and expect to make that version compatible with Linux with minimal changes as opposed to making a native Linux version.
As a developer myself, I know that it doesn’t make sense for a developer in most cases to write a Linux version and support it when the Linux user base is tiny by comparison. It happened with OS/2 and it can happen again. Not to mention Linux game developer tooling pales in comparison to Windows with DirectX.
Proton means that developers can just write games for Windows and expect to make that version compatible with Linux with minimal changes as opposed to making a native Linux version.
SteamOS is Valve’s own OS. Steam Linux Runtime is Valve’s own development target. Steam Deck is Valve’s on hardware. It’s a stable platform that doesn’t move constantly like chasing Windows compatibility through reverse engineering. Win32 is not Java, Proton is not OpenJDK. Windows games on Proton break constantly. The only way into the future is proper SteamOS versions, not buggy afterthoughts.
As a developer myself, I know that it doesn’t make sense for a developer in most cases to write a Linux version and support it when the Linux user base is tiny by comparison. It happened with OS/2 and it can happen again.
Steam Deck is not OS/2. Steam Deck is more like a video game console and needs to be treated like one with proper ports instead of broken shit like CS2, especially for Valve’s own games. Portal on Nintendo Switch works better than CS2 on Steam Deck because it’s a proper port, not an afterthought.
Stop repeating the same false arguments to me over and over again, as repeating those would make them right. If anyone of you would ever be put in charge of PlayStation, that entire business would collapse within months.
Not to mention Linux game developer tooling pales in comparison to Windows with DirectX.
Maybe Valve should improve that for their own platform then instead of relying of tools by a hostile competitor. It’s just dumb.
That’s because I don’t understand your point. You complain about it being only for windows yet push away their efforts of bringing windows games to linux (which is proton). So indeed, the quality of proton is very much the point as it dictates the quality of the game on linux to a general extent.
Not to mention that this IS an early development build, I would say that its perfectly reasonable for them to only make the early builds for windows since that is where a majority of the play testers are likely to be (not to mention that linux -> windows tools don’t exist unless you want to game on WSL2).
So what are you trying to complain about? The fact that they aren’t exclusively pandering for steam deck users? If that is the case, I must admit that it’s very childish to just expect that and I hate other companies for making this the norm.
Even if one gets bored of the game itself, there’s a practically infinite number of mods and community content out there. New game modes like skyblock, mods that turn it into an RPG with magic systems, mods that make it an in-depth factory building game, mods that take you to new realms and thousands of items to discover… There’s a lot to enjoy.
Adventure maps are also fairly underrated. There are tons of community-made maps that can turn it into a different game. Notably, there was a huge Hogwarts campaign with quests and spells that turns it into a harry potter game: www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKcsoE5X4fc
Aren’t all consoles like that, though? They all run mainstream operating systems, and are basically locked down PCs in a fancy box. If anything, the Steam Deck is further from a PC than an XBox/PS, due to being handheld, with an embedded screen and controller, while XBox and its friends require a display and an external controller (like a PC).
I would say an OS being locked down to prevent normal forms of productivity like Office work or even web browsing at times would be a requirement to be considered a console. They are usually at best a media and game system by design due to the locks in place. So I wouldn’t put Steam Deck in the category of console for the spirit of the discussion.
Consoles are more and more like PCs, with many multimedia, productivity and utilility apps and even web browsing, so the Steam Deck IMO perfectly fits the discussion.
Out of the box it has a strict console-like UI and limited functionality for everything else other than gaming. You need to take special steps to use it as a PC (reboot in desktop mode, attach peripherals, etc)
No not really. Steam Deck I can actually use fully as a desktop replacement, since it is a full Linux desktop and can have Windows OS installed on it too. Can’t do the same with a Switch or PS5 or Xbox. Doesn’t matter what peripherals you attach. Console hardware being locked down holds it back. Even jailbroken ones.
A phone is closer to a desktop equivalent than a console. Especially Samsung with stuff like Dex.
No not really. Steam Deck I can actually use fully as a desktop replacement, since it is a full Linux desktop and you can fully run a desktop Windows OS on it. Can’t do the same with a Switch or PS5 or Xbox. Console OS and it being locked down holds it back. Even jailbroken ones.
A phone is closer to a desktop equivalent than a console. Especially Samsung with stuff like Dex.
There is no strict definition of what a console is. Just because the linux OS is not restricted and the hardware can be used as a pc with extra steps are we excluding the SD from the console topic?
I just consider Steam Deck more PC than console. Even getting games to work requires more tinkering sometimes having to switch proton versions. Console tends to just work in comparison.
I just go by what traditional consoles have been capable of. And only console that comes to mind that even came close to the full functionality of the Steam Deck productivity potential was the PS3 with Linux support before they removed it.
yeah psr could run it if you have an exploited console.
the only console to officially at some point allow for it was the PS3 though.
Alternatively, any xbox one/series is technically capable of running windows in the cloud so you could theoretically get a very expensive cloud pc running on it.
I would say the Steam Deck is excluded. I specified against PC knowing people would either mention the Steam Deck or the Henry Cavill preferring PC meme.
I feel like otherwise Steam’s old Steam machines could also fit under the definition of being a console.
I suppose the unique portable hardware does make a good argument but the way I look at it game developers, for the most part, aren’t making games for the Steam Deck. They are making them for PC and I feel like that’s a big reason why I don’t consider them consoles. I also feel like that’s why devices like the ROG Ally and Steam Deck are considered handheld gaming PCs and not handheld gaming consoles.
I’d still say that’s bypassing the restrictions of the console so it can be something else. It’s like installing DOOM on a smart fridge and calling it a gaming console.
I disagree. It’s a gaming console. It is marketed as such. It’s primary purpose is to run games. By the way, you can browse on the Xbox. And because it has a full-blown browser, you can even use Office365 if you attach a keyboard and a mouse. So lets disqualify that too? :)
Can it run movie editor, code, blender, etc? How many people could be given an Xbox that doesn’t intend to game with it and use it for productivity?
By that loose definition Windows is a console too, since Steam can be launched with big picture mode so the device has a simplistic UI at launch that can be navigated by a controller.
Yes, it can run all that. You may have to jump through a few hoops (just like in the case of the Steam Deck, just different hoops), but it can run all that.
I’ll also turn your question back to you: how many people use the Steam Deck for productivity, rather than for gaming, which is its intended purpose? And does it matter?
Like it or not, the steam deck is a gaming console, even if you can run non-game stuff on it too. Heck, even stuff like the Game Boy had (official!) accessories like the Game Boy Camera and Game Boy Printer, which were both useful outside of gaming. Does that stop the Game Boy from being a (retro) gaming console? There’s an ongoing project to provide productivity apps for the Game Boy (though, arguably, it did not ship yet, but you can extend the game boy with a cartridge in whatever way you can imagine).
Or, you can use your SNES as a MIDI Synthesizer (www.supermidipak.com)! No modding or anything necessary, it’s just a regular cartridge. Can it be used for fun? Yes. Is it a game? No. You can do a lot of stuff with an SNES cartridge that has nothing to do with gaming. There was even a cartridge that let you play online games on the SNES (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XBAND) - but not only games, it also let you read and write messages to other people. You didn’t need to go into “desktop mode”, nor install a browser, nor do anything special. You plugged in the cartridge, and it worked. It was far less locked down than the XBox or even the Steam Deck! Does that disqualify the SNES (or the game boy) from being a gaming console?
By your definition I don’t see why PC wouldn’t be a console, since being to do some things doesn’t exclude it. And why exclude PC as console just because it can do a lot of things.
Wikipedia that you referred to before calls Steam deck a handheld gaming computer. If Steam Deck is a console why wouldn’t a gaming PC fall into the category of console.
This all seems arbitrary. It is all subjective anyways. You can see steam deck as different from PC. I’ll look at Steam Deck and PC as the same. So to me both are either console or PC.
You can also take it up with valve for their it’s a pc comments. Even the reveal they did with ign calling it a handheld gaming PC.
All Steam Decks (both LCD and OLED) are powerful, portable, PC gaming devices made for comfort and a console-like experience.
At best described as “console-like experience”
Steam Deck has a user-friendly interface specifically designed for its gamepad controls. Its software and operating system are tailored for Steam Deck, making it the easiest way to get into PC gaming.
This is also a nice watch of Gabe talking about the openness of the PC ecosystem and how if you want to you can install epic game store or run oculus quest on the Steam Deck. Take what you will from it but I feel like Gabe and the people who worked on the Steam Deck see it more as a PC than console.
They all run mainstream operating systems, and are basically locked down PCs in a fancy box.
I feel like Xbox is the only console running a mostly mainstream OS. The Playstation series is based off of FreeBSD and but I think that’s at a base level and a majority of what’s added is custom proprietary code. Considering gaming on FreeBSD really doesn’t surpass Quake I’d say it’s quiet different.
I’ve seen the Switch’s OS described as
Proprietary OS, derivative of Nintendo 3DS system software (partially Unix-like via certain components which are based on FreeBSD and Android)
I don’t think it’ll grow on you as you play it more. It’s one of those games where you can kind of immediately tell whether you’ll like it or not.
I also think it’s pretty repetitive (not even different interiors for each moon) but I’ve been finding a lot of fun with the goofiness of it all. Playing with friends, laughing at each other’s demises, and screwing around with the funny gadgets you can buy is where all the fun is for me.
Yeah I meant more like, each moon doesn’t have its own unique interior. So you see a lot of the same corridors (especially if you’re bad like me and can’t afford to visit the later moons).
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