bin.pol.social

stoy, do games w What games have you sunk the most time into?

I got suckered into playing 800+ hours of GTA Online and paying thousands of SEK for shark cards over a year or two before I realized what a terrible game it is.

I was addicted to it, and paid money every month to buy shark cards.

When my work situation improved however, I took a few steps back and realized that I had wasted a lot of money on it and that I was only chasing the dragon that was just out of reach, kept away from me by carefully crafted mental mechanics of the game.

I was disgusted and refused to participate further.

I uninstalled it right away and have never looked back.

Shooie,

Super proud of you internet stranger. Addictions fucking suck and are hard to break. Congratulations!

stoy, (edited )

Yeah, I never let it spiral out of control, but I did let it take all of my lessiure money for a year or two, not fun.

But educational.

Caboose12000,

I never spent a dime on it, but I did play for over 3000 hours before rock star blocked linux. I enjoyed the grind rather than the reward, so it sort of became my little safe-space game when I was really stresses out. could always just go hang out with my buds for a few hours and grind out a million bucks. I’m still kinda torn up about the anticheat situation tbh, I would gladly play alone if there were any way to play the same game. but story mode just doesnt compare for me, completly different game :(

Draegur, do gaming w Gamer_IRL

i haven’t bought a single game from them in 20 years.

but i’ve played plenty enough.

Eat my ENTIRE ASS, Nintendo.

fartsparkles,

Yup. I’ve been boycotting Nintendo and EA for the past twenty years. EA due to the destruction of countless talented studios (Origin, Bullfrog, Westwood, Pandemic) and Nintendo when they were caught by the EU doing anti-competitive price fixing (which they still seem to be doing today).

I have missed out on nothing. A game is just a game; a piece of multimedia content to entertain. There are countless astonishing games out there; missing out on a few doesn’t harm you.

People really need to learn to vote with their wallets. And no, I don’t think sailing the high seas and yarharhar legal questionability is acceptable. You don’t need to play the game. There is nothing that important you’re missing out on for the “cultural zeitgeist”.

Piracy still increases the fandom and increases sales (contrary to what IP owners will tell you). So piracy is still supporting these organisations and feeding into their success.

Vote with your wallets. Don’t support business practices and businesses you don’t believe in. Give your time and money to those that deserve it.

SARGE,
@SARGE@startrek.website avatar

Bullfrog, Westwood, Pandemic

Right in the childhood/teenage years…

pennomi, do astronomy w Elon Musk destroys astronomy

Obviously this is a problem for radio astronomers. I keep hoping we’ll build the proposed Lunar Crater Telescope so we can have a truly silent view of the universe.

anarchrist,

I would also consider a proposal to install elon musk at that location.

DScratch,

And then let people move there to get away from Elon.

baduhai,

And consequently create radio chatter and disturb the Lunar Crater Telescope :(

DScratch,

I’ll be very quiet. Promise.

BaroqueInMind,

How are you going to shit post on the internet with no wifi, then?

sneezycat,
@sneezycat@sopuli.xyz avatar

Ethernet cable.

BaroqueInMind,

Where is that ethernet cable getting internet from on the moon without there being a loud as fuck antenna?

lath,

The ether.

BaroqueInMind,

So then you won’t be able to be quiet due to the screaming and moans coming from the cacaphony of lost souls within the Warp

lath,

Eh, just treat it as ASMR.

gravitas_deficiency,

802.3

BaroqueInMind, (edited )

Ethernet protocol can’t reach the earth from the moon without there being a loud af antenna

gravitas_deficiency,

Fiber line to the bright side of the moon; transceiver there.

BaroqueInMind,

For multi-mode (full duplex) you would still need a power amp repeater every 500 meters, which requires a lot of power and create noise. You can’t be quiet with noise.

gravitas_deficiency,

Even if you make them sub-surface, or otherwise shield them from the FOV of the antenna?

BaroqueInMind,

Yes, because there’s no way to transmit power or data anywhere without being loud af in any signal spectrum. It’s physically impossible.

Even with fiber, you need a laser to beam the signal, and a powerful amp on the moon to recieve the signal and boost it with fuck ton of high power repeaters to the other side of the moon which is also loud af

gravitas_deficiency,

Be that as it may, it’d be minimal compared to the interference that terrestrial radio observatories have to deal with.

I guess I’m just saying that I don’t understand why you’re being so negative about the concept when it’s clearly going to be orders of magnitude better than existing antennae.

BaroqueInMind,

True. When can we visit said hypothetical moon base?

gravitas_deficiency,

Wanna go next Tuesday? I’m pretty sure I’m free then.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

I WONT

Caligvla,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Nah. Move him there, alone, forever.

Steve,

And how would they get there?

lath,

Lunar space elevator obviously.

dual_sport_dork, do games w Can anyone suggest some good co-op games for two people?
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Portal 2?

It’s not very long, but it has an entire co-op campaign that’s completely inaccessible without a 2nd player.

Jaysyn, do games w Fuck Ubisoft.
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

I've been boycotting Ubisoft for years, haven't missed a damn thing.

woelkchen,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve been boycotting Ubisoft for years, haven’t missed a damn thing.

Yeah, there are so many great games by non-shitty developers. Skipping Ubisoft, EA, and Activision entirely is not only possible but there are more great games left than one can play anyway.

technomad,

Yeah, that’s pretty much where I’m at with gaming now. Why settle for a subpar experience? I don’t have the time or finances for that.

cottonmon,
@cottonmon@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, they’re a pretty shitty company. Weren’t they one of the first companies to implement always-on DRM?

pastel_de_airfryer,

Yeah, I think it was in Assassin’s Creed 2. At the time, people were unable to play the single player game they bought at launch because Ubisoft shitty authentication service couldn’t handle the load.

Guess who didn’t have that problem…

rayquetzalcoatl, do gaming w Oblivion "remastered"
@rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world avatar

The piss filter is back baby!

catloaf,

What is old is new again

vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=222

Zorsith,
@Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That comic is still alive!?

SkyezOpen,

Not really. It’s porn now.

Odo,

Kinda. The website was inactive for a few years there, and only recently started updating again. The author was focusing on Patreon, which was reportedly porn of the VGCats characters.

StarvingMartist, (edited )

Freakin’ VGCATS, my man! What a blast from the past

samus12345, do gaming w The steam deck is just great

Bonus “Fuck Nintendo” points: pirate their games and put them on the Steam Deck.

Lawnman23,

This is the way.

disposabletentacle, do games w One-handed games?

I don’t understand. You have two friends, each with a good arm, that’s two good arms. Tape your friends together and have them coordinate and BAM: two-handed gaming.

Socket462,

That sounds like a good plot for an episode in a tv show. I sense potential here. Haha

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Tape will come off when they sweat, better sew them together. And trim off those unnecessary arms, it’s just efficiency.

frigidaphelion,

🚨👮‍♂️🚨yes officer it’s this person right here

atomicorange,

Thank you citizen, you’re right! He’s got management written all over him!

nogooduser,

And they can play Brothers A Tale Of Two Sons.

helix,

sadly they live 80km apart from each other, and both are right handed, so they couldn’t face each other while playing. We’d need a pretty weird dual-monitor setup if we’d tape them together.

ddash,

All I’m hearing is excuses over excuses!

glitches_brew,

They could easily solve the double right handed problem by sewing one to the other upside down.

oxideseven,

My SO and I died this during a stream once. I don’t know why lol.

We played Hades. I was right, she was left. It started as a joke but we actually made it decently far lol.

PonyOfWar, do gaming w What happened to gaming?

To me it sounds more like the social media algorithms put you into the “gaming tech” corner so that’s all you see. Indie gaming is huge and not at all about graphics. Look at the currently popular games on Steam and a ton of them are technologically very basic.

ErsatzCoalButter,

This is the answer. Lots of great stuff going in games right now.

cRazi_man,

Also don’t forget retro games.

Even new games can be run on midrange hardware if you don’t crank up the settings.

People want big numbers and companies watch to sell the latest stuff. No one gives a platform for advocating low budgets, cheaper hardware and patient gaming.

ClassifiedPancake,

Exactly. My feeling is more the opposite of what OP is saying. Gameplay and innovation is king. Just not in AAA games.

DrowningInteger, do games w Recommendation engine: Downvote any game you've heard of before

I don’t have any suggestions but I do like this prompt and I see a lot of games I’ve never heard of

helloharu,
@helloharu@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t either but this is such a great discussion. I’ve come across quite a few interesting sounding games here. Thanks OP.

9cpluss, do games w The Game Awards 2023: List of Winners

Cyberpunk winning best ongoing game is such a joke. Yes, I enjoyed the DLC but if any game with DLC and updates can be part of that category then that category has no meaning at all.

Stern,
@Stern@lemmy.world avatar

Could make a category of, “Why? I ask again, why?” and include Dave the Diver being nominated as an indie game along with it.

9cpluss, (edited )

Friends Per Second podcast had an interesting discussion around it. The term Indie isn’t well defined. Maybe never was. Most people probably see DtD as indie even though it had a publisher. A new category could be “independent” which actually has games that were published independently.

Renacles,

Indie literally means independent.

9cpluss,

Yes, indie is short for independent but the meaning of “indie” game isn’t as clear cut anymore (was it ever?). As you can see with Dave the Diver.

Renacles,

I can see that but I’d argue most people agree that being funded by Nexon is neither independent nor indie.

Zero,

It has nothing to do with DLC. I think it deserved the award. Instead of just letting the game die that it shouldn’t have released in the first place. They fixed it.

9cpluss,

I think we might have different expectations here. I think if a company sells a broken game, they should fix it without praise. The consumers paid for it. Specially should they not get an award for that. There should be a category for “most stable release” instead.

OscarRobin,

Exactly. I can’t believe how much praise people are giving Cyberpunk for not being broken anymore. Like bro that ain’t an achievement.

Ketloch,

Yeah, what actually happened here is they put out a broken, unfinished game 3 years ago, have spent the last 3 years on damage control and fixing it (which means it never changed overall price on the store like a 3 year old game should) and now they want you to buy an Xpac and the ultimate edition so they can sell it again, still for full price. It’s not worth an award, it’s scummy.

loki_d20,

I think the reason it gets praised is because it’s very rare that poor games get as much time and investment into fixing in this day and age. Most companies will just move on to the next game or even use AI to write their apology letters and then abandon the game entirely.

EntirelyUnlovable,
@EntirelyUnlovable@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I feel that, Rage 2 still has a game breaking bug that will lock you out of your perma-death run on the final mission with just never got fixed.

Cexcells,

It’s not a live service game though.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Awarded to a game for outstanding development of ongoing content that evolves the player experience over time.

Its best ongoing game, not best live service game. I think things like Stardew Valley or No Man’s Sky fit into this just like Cyberpunk did because devs should be praised for when they go above and beyond. I’d argue CDPR owed that to their fans but still, they mostly pulled it off.

sigmaklimgrindset,

Didn’t they announce that they weren’t going to do anymore updates besides bug changes like…last week? Am I hallucinating that?

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Cyberpunk? Think that’s right but I’d argue that would put them out of the running of this category in 2024 rather than this year’s.

sigmaklimgrindset,

Yes, Cyberpunk, sorry I didn’t clarify. And I agree with the 2024 take too.

As someone who is industry adjacent and has worked with people who work on games that are actively updated and improved for years…idk the Cyberpunk win doesn’t sit right with me. I have all the sympathy for the devs at CDPR and what they went through during the initial launch of the game, but this win just shows upper management at dev companies that they can get rewarded for releasing unfinished projects and finishing them later.

It’s also funny that they won against FFXIV, an actual good example of a game that was nuked to the ground and rebuilt with continuous support because of it’s initial failure.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

That’s a reasonable take. I think the win speaks to how much of a marketing even this show is.

sigmaklimgrindset,

Lol, thanks! r/gaming did not like my take 😂

mcmoor,

Wait, FFXIV do deserve it much more how tf Cyberpunk wins. Still, isn’t their best updates one or two years ago? Did they win last year?

LucidNightmare,

Shit, if that’s the case, I would rather Stardew or No Man’s get it because THOSE games actually added and improved the whole game with each update!

And this is coming from someone who was able to play Cyberpunk at launch with minimal bugs and actually enjoyed it and still do!

GoodEye8,

There’s a huge indie scene with loads of ongoing games that would be far more deserving of the award than Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk literally stopped major developments with 2.0, the rest you’re going to get are easy to include content and QoL. Compare that to Dwarf Fortress that has 20+ years of development and is only 50% done with the final vision. You could probably also stick Terraria there because despite the devs saying multiple times that they’re done they’re still updating the game. I’m sure there’s more but those two were just at the top of my head.

The only merit CP77 has to be on that list is fixing a broken game. Do you think CP77 would’ve won the award if it had release in the 2.0 state and gotten 3 years of additional development? Would it even make it into the nominees list? I don’t think so.

Coelacanth,
@Coelacanth@feddit.nu avatar

I’m convinced they had Cyberpunk win it because they don’t have a “Best DLC/Expansion” category (yet) and felt like Cyberpunk deserved to win something for the way 2.0 and Phantom Liberty revitalised it.

9cpluss,

That’s fair. Might actually be a good category.

andy_wijaya_med,
@andy_wijaya_med@lemmy.world avatar

True. Lol. Offline single player RPG isnt an ongoing game.

Phegan,

Also, fixing your fucked it game isn’t ongoing either. CP2077 in this category is a disgrace. They shipped a buggy game, released DLC and actually finished the game and then won an award for it. Bullshit.

Lettuceeatlettuce, do gaming w AITAH for pirating games before buying them?
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

No. Intellectual property is not real, so nothing is being stolen by you.

If it’s a small developer, and you like the game, make sure to support them if you can. If it’s a mega studio, don’t feel bad about not paying anything.

That’s my personal policy at least.

haui_lemmy,

Your ethics are on point.

Chozo,

If intellectual property is not real, then why do you support the idea of paying small developers instead of large developers? Their intellectual property is just as fake as large studios, right?

I really wish pirates were more honest with themselves. Just admit that you're taking something that doesn't belong to you and own it. I pirate content all the time, but I don't do the mental gymnastics to justify it. Just admit that you stole something and that you don't care, it's not that hard. I have an old PC in my closet that has about 200 movies and a bunch of cracked games on it that I've pirated over the years, and I don't care that I stole them. The Robin Hood complex some pirates have is just weird, imo. You're not sticking it to The Man; The Man is still bankrolling more per week than the team who made the content you stole is making in a year, regardless of your seed ratio.

By the way, large studios also have developers who rely on their jobs to put food on the table, just like the small studios. If you think anybody at EA aside from the C-Suite execs are significantly richer than the average indie dev, you'd be mistaken. Next time you're playing a pirated AAA game, look at your character; the guy who spent several weeks of his life sculpting and rigging that model is probably just as concerned about paying his rent on time as you are.

By the way, this isn't entirely directed at you, specifically. Just my thoughts on the general attitude I see in a lot of piracy communities lately.

knfrmity,

It’s the same with FOSS. IP is just as fake as physical private property, but that doesn’t mean we can’t pay people for their labour.

If I find a really useful open-source licensed app developed by one or two people as a hobby, and they have a donation link in their repo, I might send them something.

If it’s a really useful open-source licensed app developed by some corporation, there’s no way I’m giving them money. The company has invested in developing the app as open source; they chose to (or were forced to by virtue of open source dependencies) make it public. The devs were already paid by the company. Whether the company takes in enough revenue by other means to pay for this open source project isn’t my problem.

SkyNTP,

Just admit that you stole something and that you don’t care, it’s not that hard.

You are not wrong, but maybe just a bit of perspective:

In my city, you can go to the public library, borrow a DVD, take it home, watch it. 100% legal. 100% free. No library membership fees. And they have multiple copies of most DVDs, so it’s not like it’s some lottery to use the service.

It feels a lot like downloading a movie without paying anyone to watch it. The only difference is you gotta go outside. Oh, and no guilt tripping.

Anyway, what’s my point? Well piracy is only illegal because some people (not everyone) decided that everyone is going to pay an equal, but not necessarily an equitable, share to fund the development of said IP (unless you have a library in your area to counter this, partially). Worse, that everyone will keep paying a very small group of people money we’ll after the development of said IP has been paid off. Even worse, that small group of people will use their profits to corrupt the legal system to ensure that that protectionism continues to serve their benefit, not others… Point being, you can pirate, and care… care a lot.

Victims are created when piracy affects small production houses struggling to make ends meet. Victims are created of everyone else when the law is abused beyond it’s original purpose to squeeze consumers.

So you too should be honest and not call it theft. Piracy is piracy, good or bad. To compare it to the crime of theft is to perpetuate the marketing of those to stand from a black and white view on the matter.

Chozo,

The only difference is you gotta go outside.

No, the difference is that you're expected to return it. You're not supposed to keep it forever. That's why there's a "due by" date on checked-out materials.

Eheran,

Absolutely wild how stuff like this is downvoted here. People are disconnected from reality as if the world is a little hippy community. reminds me of this, have fun reading.

Katana314,

That link is chillingly hilarious.

Makes me think of a simple job like garbage man; they drive up the pay to encourage people into it. So what’s the incentive without capital?

Eheran,

No worries, I am sure the local diaper boy will handle that.

SheeEttin,

In theory, you see the job needs to be done, you do it for the good of the community.

Chozo,

Jesus Christ.

I think... I think I understand conservatives a little now.

Eheran,

I do not understand them - the same way I can not understand those delusional socialism nutjobs.

Unanimous_anonymous, (edited )

It is theft, but the argument is better framed as to whether or not it’s moral theft. Most people who pirate feel comfortable pirating from larger corporations over small time creators/groups, with the usual justifications you’ve provided above. Personally, I’ve justified it at times because I couldn’t afford to purchase the thing, which leads to another argument of “if I wasn’t going to buy it in the first place, is it actually effecting them”.

There is no argument to be made, however, where it isn’t true that if you were to have purchased it, the owner of the idea will make more off of it. Whether you care or not about that owner getting more is a different argument, but you are robbing them of value for the idea, however little that value might have been.

I’m not arguing for or against pirating, but people in the comments saying it isn’t theivery really seem to be arguing whether stealing is wrong or not. Call it what it is and go back to the argument people have been having for thousands of years.

Which, I realize I didn’t address libraries. Taxes pay for libraries to operate, and then the library pays to have copies of the works. If no one wants to read my book, libraries aren’t going to just go out and buy thousands of copies. And trying to tackle libraries would also start to erode arguments for reselling something. And to bring it back to the OP, I’ve read books in a library before that I enjoyed enough to purchase a copy of my own. I’ve also read books I haven’t. But someone purchased that book for me to rent, and in a small part, I’ve paid for that book myself by paying taxes.

ayaya,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

It’s not mental gymnastics. Why is it so hard to believe that people genuinely don’t believe in intellectual property? It has nothing to do with “sticking it to the man.” I just do not believe in IP, full stop.

And piracy is not stealing, it is making a copy. When you steal a physical item the original owner is deprived of that item. When you copy something the original “owner” still has access to it.

Not everyone thinks the same way you do. In fact you sound like a terrible person if you genuinely believe that what you’re doing is wrong but you’re doing it anyway.

Eheran,

You can also believe in Santa, how does it matter, to the whole society, what you believe?

Mchugho,

So if someone spend thousands of hours and a lot of money on researching a new invention that would benefit people, you don’t believe they should reap the rewards of said invention without a competitor stealing their idea? You’re basically advocating for people not to be paid for their work

Eheran,

Intellectual property is not real?

So unless I make something physical I am not making anything real? So all my work up to the point of a plant being actually built is not real?

Doing anything on a PC or smartphone is not real.

Inventing a train of thought that cures every known desease and mental illness is simply not real - because you can’t touch it. This is the equivalent of dark ages church logic.

ayaya,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

You are being intentionally obtuse. It’s not that the thing itself literally does not exist at all, it’s that the ownership of ideas is not real. When you steal a physical item the original owner is deprived of that item. When you copy an idea the original “owner” still has access to it.

Unanimous_anonymous,

I find it funny you’re calling him intentionally obtuse right after you seem to just simplify theivery at whether something physical is stolen. If you’re basing it off of something being stolen or not, IP is used to protect the realized gains off of an idea. Yeah you aren’t stealing a physical something, but you are robbing the creator of what the item is valued at. It is exactly the issue that you can’t own an idea that IP is usually heavily protected. Ironically, the intention is to help new ideas(and their profiting worth) from being stolen by someone (or something ie Coporations) with better means to distribute and profit off of the idea. Otherwise, why wouldn’t I just get a copy of a game, underpriced it, and sell it as cheap as I wanted? I’ve put no thought or labor into actualized the idea, so I have no reason to price it beyond my initial investment. It why when someone (or something) sells full rights to their IP, it can be worth millions. They don’t care about the idea. They care about what the idea can provide in the future.

To draw a parallel, saying IP isn’t real is like saying currency has no worth. On the surface, duh of course currency isn’t actually worth anything. It’s not like people can (practically) eat a dollar or make shoes out of a dollar, but we’ve (generally) collectively decided it’s worth something. It instils confidence that when I walk into a store, my currency has a conversion rate of so many dollars per good. If thousands of people added millions of dollars into their bank accounts by just “copying” the electronic money, no one has lost money, but the value of the currency is deflated by those actions because there’s nothing stopping everyone from from just adding millions to their accounts. The confidence that people will be harshly dealt with for deflating the currency like that is one of the innate things that gives currencies (and IP’s) their value. Handwaving it away by saying it isn’t actually real is also just being obtuse.

ayaya,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

you are robbing the creator of what the item is valued at

If I value the item at $0 then I have robbed them of $0.

why wouldn’t I just get a copy of a game, underpriced it, and sell it as cheap as I wanted?

We already do that. It is called piracy. We take it and sell it for as cheap as we want ($0).

the value of the currency is deflated by those actions because there’s nothing stopping everyone from from just adding millions to their accounts

I don’t care if the value of IP is deflated. I already believe it to be zero so that doesn’t change anything. Ideas should be free to be shared.

And before you say something like, “then nothing new will ever get made” just remember you are on Lemmy. The developers make it because they want to, not because of the money. People can still make things without profit incentive. In fact I think the world would be a much better place if we had less creations focused on making money and were left with only creators who are driven by passion rather than profit.

Eheran,

You can also steal physical items and claim their value is 0. What does this have to do with IP specifically?

Chozo,

If I value the item at $0 then I have robbed them of $0.

Luckily we live in reality, where thieves don't get to arbitrarily determine the values of their plunder.

SilentStorms,

Pirates absolutely can and do arbitrarily determine the value of their plunder. As evidenced by this post.

You can disagree with it, but piracy will always be a part of reality.

Unanimous_anonymous,

FOSS is made because people want it to be made and made available. People who make games and art vary between it purely wanting to be made and wanting to make a profit off of that. If you’re dense enough to think saying you value something at $0 and then still enjoying it like the other people willing to support the IP, then you’re an asshole.

There is a balance between what the creator is allowed to value their idea and what people are willing to pay for that idea. If they can’t find a middle ground, then the transaction shouldn’t occur. If you force that transaction by stealing their idea and efforts, you’re being a thief. What you use to justify your actions is up to you, but you’re a thief nonetheless.

ayaya,
@ayaya@lemdro.id avatar

If you’re dense enough to think saying you value something at $0 and then still enjoying it like the other people willing to support the IP, then you’re an asshole.

This isn’t even a coherent sentence. But I’m assuming you mean I’m an asshole for enjoying something without paying when other people do pay? Except if I enjoy something I do pay for it. Just because I don’t think people should own ideas doesn’t mean I don’t support creators when I enjoy something.

If you force that transaction by stealing their idea and efforts, you’re being a thief. What you use to justify your actions is up to you, but you’re a thief nonetheless.

And no, by law I am not a thief. A thief is someone who commits theft, and theft is “the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.” Copyright infringement does not deprive the owner of it, it is simply a copy. At least in the United States where I live copyrighted works are not considered stolen property. You can call me an asshole if you want but by definition I am no thief.

Eheran,

He says it is not real, so it can not be stolen. That is a pretty simple message. What am I getting wrong? He says nothing about ownership. It just does not exist. So don’t tell me I am obtuse when the maximum is that the person was ambiguous.

Mchugho,

IP is obviously real in the same way money is real. Just because something isn’t physical doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

spiderplant,

That would be a ecumenical philosophical matter.

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

The results of your ideas are real, the outcomes and impacts are real. The mental labor you do is valuable, but none of it is “property.”

If your thoughts and ideas and concepts are property that can be stolen, then please explain how you can be deprived of them.

Thinking hard about something is labor, but it’s not property, it can’t possibly be property, because it lacks all of the aspects typically required to define property.

Mchugho,

Ironically by not advocating for IP you are depriving people from earning from their valuable mental labour.

If I invent something and spend time, effort and money into developing it, I should be allowed to be rewarded for that effort. If a competitor comes along and steals my idea without putting the wok in, I am absolutely being deprived of all the value of my hard work. That’s how someone can steal your intellectual property.

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

IP laws are not the only way to ensure a creator is compensated for their work. Money isn’t the only possible compensation, and modern IP law doesn’t protect most small time creators. It protects mega-corps and their monopolies on content/products/services.

It stifles competition and progress, not enhances it.

esc27,

I used to think this way, then I realized physical property is not real either. Both are defined by the state, recorded on paper somewhere, and protected by force.

Just because you can actually physically go to my property does not change the fact that it is only my property because I have a deed.

I’m still not sure how to feel about IP but I’m less dismissive of it for now.

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

Possession of property isn’t the same as property itself. Although I agree with you that I am sceptical of property in general, at least physical property makes some sense when defined. Intellectual property just makes absolutely no sense.

hedgehog,

With intellectual property there is at least (by default) a direct link between the work necessary to create an item and its ownership. With physical items the initial ownership is necessarily predicated on having controlled a means of production.

I can create an IP and I do not need to spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to do so. But I cannot create a substantial physical item without paying the people who own the materials and the factories for the privilege of doing so. Why is previous ownership such a critical factor in ownership of new items, separate from the work to create them?

Intellectual property laws have their own issues but at least with regard to them conceptually, intellectual property is more “pure” than physical property.

LadyLikesSpiders,

Let’s word it differently then. Physical property is literally real, like, you can go to it. IPs are not a resource. The game devs do not run out of copies of a game because OP pirated them. They remain at an infinite supply. If someone breaks into your house and makes off with your microwave, you are now short a microwave; If you pirate software, the developer is not short in any stock of software

Mchugho,

As someone who works in intellectual property it is very much real. Unless you think people shouldn’t receive rewards for their mental efforts in much the same way as physical labour?

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

People should be rewarded for their mental labor, but that’s not the same as saying they have created intellectual property.

A thought or concept is not an object that can be stolen. An idea cannot be a scarce resource that is used up.

If concepts or ideas can be “stolen” then that means somebody is being deprived of them. But unless you somehow erased the idea from all parts of that person’s brain and transfered it into yours, nobody has been deprived of anything, and thus nothing has been stolen.

Mchugho, (edited )

Ideas certainly will become scarce products if people aren’t protected for having them.

Of course you can steal someone’s intellectual property. If you copy someone’s idea you are depriving that person from profiting from said idea and depriving them of income. There is a limit on how many people can profit from a given idea.

Intellectual property protects those who innovate against predatory practices. You are displaying naivety for who intellectual property is seeking to protect. By not enshrining IP in law you are literally stopping people from earning money from their mental labour.

If IP law didn’t exist why would anybody spend their time and money researching and creating new inventions if someone can come along and steal their idea?

Lettuceeatlettuce,
@Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml avatar

You cannot be “deprived of profit.” That makes no sense. Nobody is owed any profit for simply trying to sell something.

If I create art to sell, and nobody buys it, I haven’t been robbed of anything at all. And that fact doesn’t change if somebody walks past my art booth, looks at my painting, admires it, and then walks away. They didn’t “steal” anything from me. I haven’t been deprived of anything. Unless you want to make the claim that they are a thief now that they enjoyed my painting without paying my anything for it.

If that’s true, then everybody who walks through an art fair or gallery but doesn’t buy any art is a robber and should be arrested and charged.

The idea that IP protects the little folks who are struggling artists is a capitalist myth perpetuated primarily by corporate advocates that are the actual beneficiaries of IP laws. It’s used by mega-corps to lock down massive amounts of content, make billions off of it, exploit actual artists to perpetuate their monopoly on creative expressions of characters.

It’s also used by pharma corps to artifically restrict supply of critical drugs to the population in order to make billions in profits and enrich their shareholders.

And the whole, “nobody would create anything if copyright/patents didn’t exist” is yet another capitalist myth, disproved by countless examples. As if the entire internet doesn’t run on the back of Linux, a free and open source project spanning literal decades, Wikipedia, the largest single encyclopedia of human knowledge in dozens of languages, all the millions of pages of fan fiction and hobbiest artists that have created passion projects with no expectation of making money. Etc etc.

Don’t buy into the propaganda.

tyrant, do games w Reminder if you're leaving Discord for this Revolt server ( Linux + Steam Deck devs / creators)

Revolt isn’t federated, encrypted, has no video chat, claims privacy but that claim seems to be simply because they are based in Europe. The layout is nice and ui is better than element but that’s the only upside i see. I hate the matrix client ui’s and chat sorting options.

scrubbles,
!deleted6348 avatar

Exactly. I wish they would have just built a great UI on top of Matrix or even XMPP, but they insisted on doing it this way. None of my friends want to switch to something that they’re boxed-in with, they don’t want an app just for one server. Matrix is the only option we have, but all of the UIs are… meh.

dogs0n,

Yeah, they kinda screwed up Element with combining mobile and desktop features into one app. The first time I tried creating a call on desktop, it was suddenly apparent how confusing they had made it, because you can do it in multiple ways (normal calls & conference calls).

There are other UIs that look very nice, but sadly don’t support voice chat. Hopefully these other clients can catch up, but it’ll likely take a while.

XM34, (edited )

So, I briefly tried out Matrix some four years ago and left because it was utter trash and from what I gather from your comment it is still pretty much trash now. But despite there not being a single usable client, people still try to convince everyone that Matrix, by some obscrure metric, is superior to all other chat programs.

Sorry to say, but a chat protocol on its own is a tech demo at best and as long as there isn’t a single feature complete and usable client, it’s an alternative for no one except hardcore tech enthusiasts.

When I last used Matrix/Elements I had to deal with “lost keys” issues multiple times in just two months. This issue is a dealbreaker if it happens just once in a year and apparently, it’s still a semi regular problem for some of my friends.

Just accept it, Matrix will never be a replacement for Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram or even just Microsoft Teams.

poke,

Never is a strong word. Element has made a lot of progress and I can see the potential in it to compete with some of these platforms.

But no, it’s not there yet.

dogs0n,

I agree, I don’t think it’s trash. From my experience, chatting is very good, voice/video are just the next thing they are tackling.

Better UX will probably come after important features are done.

dogs0n,

I didn’t mean to say that it’s (still) trash, I think it’s useable, but there are still a lot of improvements to come.

Element as a client seems to want to do everything, which is probably great for a lot of people, but it (in my experience) has led to a poor user experience (which with more time, will likely improve, they seem to have a lot of backing).

With Element completing voice/video implementation, I imagine it’ll be easier for other clients to reference their work when implementing their own support.

Once the other clients get voice support, I will definitely be trying them out again, I’m sure they will make a much simpler experience that works out the box.

The lost keys problem has luckily never happened to me, it usually boils down the user error I believe, but yeah, if it is a user error that happens often, they should figure out some way to fix that (probably a hard problem, which is sort of fixed (i believe) if you use the client on multiple devices, so if you get logged out of your account you can easily authorize your access from another logged in device, eg desktop/mobile).

Lichtblitz,

Also, revolt self hosting is broken. The web call functionality (WebRTC) is being rewritten but that effort is stale and out of the box it simply does not work. There is no real documentation about this either. It just won’t work and you need to invest a lot of effort to figure out why. The moment self hosting properly works, I’ll give it another shot. Not being able to connect without a fat client is a show stopper for me. There’s no way I can get enough traction for my groups if the barrier to switch is higher than a sheet of paper.

When self hosting all the shortcomings you mentioned are perfectly acceptable for me.

KSPAtlas,
@KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz avatar

Revolt hasn’t added federation because it can be a major complexity increase in the codebase, but apparently they might be allowing instance owners to integrate polyproto support (polyproto is a work-in-progress federated chat system). If you want a discord like interface for Matrix, Cinny exists. I personally prefer revolt in some ways as Matrix feels like it doesn’t fit the use case for discord as well.

tyrant,

Cinny hates me. Failed to load module xapp-gtk3-module and then unable to complete frame buffer.

Screenshots look nice though!

KSPAtlas,
@KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz avatar

There’s a web version you can use just fine

Nima, do games w Palworld announces Terraria crossover
@Nima@leminal.space avatar

i love how terraria is the 7th best selling game ever and they are just chill with everyone.

i adore the dedication to fun. they just keep rollin.

colderr,

Re-Logic is just chill overall. Barely any drama and they respect their players. Which I love!

sunflowercowboy,

Red making the best Mario fan game is just a weird factoid.

chiliedogg,

My understanding is they keep adding features even though they’re supposed to be done because they still play the game constantly themselves and end up wanting more content.

Nima,
@Nima@leminal.space avatar

its true. the biggest terraria fans are the devs.

chiliedogg,

If you do what you love, you’ll be constantly working the rest of your life.

TriflingToad,

I know this is probably isn’t true but it’s my head cannon that they’re just really afraid to put out a “state of the game [month]” posts without anything in it

y0kai, do games w My mental health has improved after deleting games that have microtransactions in them

Maybe its the 'tism but I never gave a shit about most microtransactiony things unless they have a “pay-to-win” element. That’s why I gave up on GTA online.

But if its just like “exclusive skins”, I could give a shit. My default skinned character can still win against a guy in a bear-suit with a golden AK and that’s really all I need. I have no particular FOMO of not winning the fashion part of the game.

I do wish games I could turn off their constant begging for my money though.

ihatetheworld,

It is always such a satisfying feeling to loot the $999 weapon skin off your enemy dead body.

Thank you for spending on my behalf and letting me play this game as a f2p and for letting me use your rare skin.

I avoid any games that have p2w mtx but I can tolerate it somewhat if it is a PvE only or ‘single player’ like in Genshin-like games.

I dislike the practice of having mtx of any kind in pay to play games so I tend to avoid those too.

Buttflapper,

My default skinned character can still win against a guy in a bear-suit with a golden AK and that’s really all I need. I have no particular FOMO of not winning the fashion part of the game.

Sure, until Activision starts using its new patented pay to win technology

Twitter user strahfe recently shared a patent by Activision that suggests buying cosmetic items could increase your chances of being placed in games against less-experienced players. The patent reads: “The microtransaction engine may match a more expert/marquee player with a junior player to encourage the junior player to make game-related purchases of items possessed/used by the marquee player”

I’m not heavy into conspiracies, but I’m suspicious enough to not give Activision the benefit of the doubt and bet that they’ve done this in secret if they have a patent for it. But really… if we’re even thinking about these kinds of things, the game is a lost cause.

PunchingWood,

Even a bunch of competitive games it hasn’t bothered me that much unless it’s like a real big difference.

I actually enjoy taking the shitter on people that paid to be “good”, then get their asses handed to them to someone who clearly never spent a dime.

conciselyverbose,

You used to unlock cool stuff by playing the game.

They removed that whole loop of discovering cool stuff by doing cool things and replaced it with cash grubbing.

aphonefriend,

Played Terraria recently and this concept you speak of shined in it. Almost forgot how fun discovering new things as you play the actual game was.

Nighed,
@Nighed@feddit.uk avatar

Wow still has a lot of achievement/reputation(grind) related cosmetics.

But yeh, it’s a shame that when you see a cool/unique looking mout etc that you now assume it’s paid by default.

RonnieB,

My problem with “its just cosmetic” is that it turns the entire main screen into ad space, along with loading screens and wherever else they can jam it in. I don’t play game to be advertised to.

Of course I can choose not to buy in, but if it didn’t have a psychological effect they wouldn’t be doing it.

Exusia,
@Exusia@lemmy.world avatar

An argument I heard, and adopted is that it’s never “just” cosmetic. Your enjoyment of the game is impacted by how you perceive your avatar. This is why fortnite skins sell so well to new players. It’s not just cosmetic to drop $20 on Cuddle Team Leader. It makes a user feel silly and increases enjoyment running around as an obvious pink mascot costume. It prolongs how long you play both by increased enjoyment, and sunk cost fallacy. In any game with cosmetics, purchases drive playtime.

hoshikarakitaridia,
@hoshikarakitaridia@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I had to realize that as well at some point.

Used to play games and I was so focused on gameplay, I always thought “why even have a lot of art in there”. But then you realize if the art sucks, you wouldn’t even be giving it a chance.

And this extends to skins and stuff. If it’s “just cosmetics”, that still means there is some art that is now hidden unless you throw money at your screen. And depending on how much it is, the game might be way too boring without it. So you’re still buying bits of a game after the fact. And voila, we’re back to the reasons why DLCs suck.

helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

But if its just like “exclusive skins”, I could give a shit.

I think you meant “couldn’t”.

I do wish games I could turn off their constant begging for my money though.

The “constant begging” is why I don’t even look twice at these games.

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