pcgamer.com

Fedizen, do games w It turns out Saudi Arabia will own 93.4 percent of EA if the buyout goes through, which is effectively all of it

How is this even legal?

okamiueru,

What exactly about it is it you feel should be illegal?

Fedizen,

Foreign country buying a US corporation. Seems like their investment should be capped at like 15%

Blaiz0r,

US companies by foreign companies all the time, look at the food and drink corporations.

This is not a new or strange thing

cecilkorik,

It’s definitely not new, but it’s time to start thinking about how strange it is, and start pulling these assholes off their money-merry-go-round.

titanicx,

It’s a world economy. What are you, some sort of maga twit America first and only bullshit?

cecilkorik,

That is some very black or white, us or them, red team vs blue team thinking. It’s very interesting that you immediately jump to that conclusion when I am not even from the US at all. The answer to your question is absolutely not, and the fact that it’s a “world economy” doesn’t and shouldn’t mean any people are obligated to do business with and accept the controlling interest of literal monsters fueled by oil and oil money. Ethics must also be allowed to control the economy, not just money. The world’s financial systems have consequences beyond just the economy.

lolola,

“Stop being such a fascist and let us do business with these fucking murderers”

titanicx,

I don’t want them to buy it. But there isn’t anything illegal with investors purchasing a company line this no matter where they are from. It’s just business, it really doesn’t matter who owns them, they suck no matter what

Bronzebeard,

US Steel is now a Japanese company

greenskye,

I’d think we’d be far more concerned about critical resource companies before we got to worrying about gaming companies, but we can’t even do that so I’m not surprised.

forrgott, (edited )

You seem to be under some misconception regarding who actually writes our laws. Hint: they’re called lobbyists to get people to ignore the rampant bribery.

titanicx,

Bribery? They are buying a company. That’s it. There isn’t anything special about it. It’s like any other company out there.

forrgott,

And I was talking about the so-called legality of the situation. So, pretty clearly not referring to the headline…

titanicx,

Again, no legal issues.

forrgott,

https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/3d8e96ad-382f-4ff8-a199-b8b05e33c526.gif

How about if you can’t follow a conversation, maybe stay out of it? Like, for real, I didn’t know that else to tell you.

Kraiden, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle
@Kraiden@piefed.social avatar

content that appears, in our judgment, to depict sexual conduct involving a minor

I’m assuming they don’t mean a suggestive camera pan, but actually something problematic on screen, in which case, I totally support the ban. Devs were given the opportunity to change it, and they said no. Ban away imho. The fact that this is considered controversial is pretty disturbing to me.

Deestan,

The devs were not told what needed to change even after asking, so they tried to remove anything that they suspected could be taken the wrong way, asked for reconsideration or clarification, but receive no response.

KaChilde,

This is false.

eurogamer.net/its-extremely-frustrating-and-also-…

They submitted to steam, who asked for a preliminary build of the game (one would assume due to concerns about the content). The build provided included a small child reading a naked man like a horse.

Steam denied the game based on the inclusion of CSAM, and advised the devs directly of this decision in what the devs call “an automated email”, as if steam is out there personally hand writing rejection letters for every failed game out there.

The devs claim to have changed the scene, but it seems that Steam has a zero-tolerance policy on games that feature CSAM. And, I mean, Fair.

douglasg14b,
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

It seems a stretch to call (at least as far as I understand it), a naked (fictional) underage character riding a horse CSAM? Sure, it’s definitely not in good taste, but… CSAM?

CSAM is child abuse, there are no children here. Is there a clear line between someone drawing and actual real child abuse? Because, IMHO, there definitely should be.

I agree that steam shouldn’t allow such content, we don’t want it, but I definitely disagree with the semantics here.

Or am I missing something obvious??

despoticruin,

You are, it wasn’t a horse in the build they sent to Steam, it was a naked man. If you have a naked girl on a horse I think that qualifies too, you have an underage character that’s naked.

markz, (edited )

It was a child doing pony play, riding a naked adult man-horse. The dev claimed it was not sexual.

This was removed later but it’s the build you send for review that gets reviewed. Other stores got a later version, hence why it passed on those.

Dev was not given a chance to remove it as it turns out steam has a policy that anything that resembles CSAM gets denied permanently.

cronenthal,

I haven’t heard about the details, what’s your source on that?

As far as I recall, the developer said he didn’t know the actual reason for the ban.

markz,

Some previous article which contained valve’s response, and a description of the scene. I didn’t find it immediately, but I’ll check again.

markz,
dukemirage,

What’s CSAM?

Suburbanl3g3nd,

Pretty sure it’s child sexual abuse material

markz,

Child Sexual Abuse Material. Legalese for child porn and adjacent things.

SharkAttak,
@SharkAttak@kbin.melroy.org avatar

I also was wondering why, it's always been called CP and then recently they changed acronym 🤷

Passerby6497,

Like the other user said, porn implies some level of consent which children cannot give. Calling it csam ensures there’s no confusion about it being abuse.

bobzer,

Calling it csam ensures there’s no confusion about it being abuse.

Just confusion about what the stupid acronym stands for.

Arcane2077,

Forming an opinion from your made up justification is a sign of poor judgement

Kraiden,
@Kraiden@piefed.social avatar

It’s a direct quote from the article you’re commenting on, and that my opinion is based on.

But please, don’t let me stop you from attacking my character instead of my argument

Arcane2077,

I was talking about your comment, not the quote. Weird that you assumed otherwise

“I’m assuming they don’t mean a suggestive camera pan, but actually something problematic on screen, in which case, I totally support the ban. Devs were given the opportunity to change it, and they said no. Ban away imho. The fact that this is considered controversial is pretty disturbing to me.”

Devs were not given the opportunity to change it as it wasn’t there in the first place

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Yes it was

REDACTED,

I’m almost thru the game and I did not notice any sexual conducts with minors

Kraiden,
@Kraiden@piefed.social avatar

Yep, I’ve since read some other articles and it seems there’s more to this specific case

jordanlund, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Sounds like the gaming equivalent of the play “Equus”.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equus_(play)

I can see why some would shy away from it, but banning it is the sort of thing that will keep gaming from becoming a unique art form. 😟

dukemirage,

It already is a unique art form. This is not defined by the commercial availability, and this game wouldn’t be the first art piece that understands controversy as part of its essence.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

It was a child doing pony play, riding a naked adult man-horse. The dev claimed it was not sexual.

I don’t think gaming needs CSAM to be a “unique art form”, but you do you.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Read the plot summary of the play Equus linked above.

Like I say, this sounds like the gaming equivalent of Equus, which, when performed, involves a character supposed to be 17 doing exactly that.

The horses on stage are supposed to be “real” horses, but are performed by human actors. The male actor in these scenes is also typically nude.

NGL, it’s a HEAVY play to read and even heavier to watch, but it also won the 1975 Tony Award for best play…

douglasg14b, (edited )
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

Y’all need to read what CSAM is. Questionable or objectionable art isn’t CSAM in the same sense that drawing a murder isn’t murder and drawing Noncon isn’t rape.

Depiction isn’t harm, if it was damn near all literature would be in the same category.

Let’s not go down that slippery slope.

Books like Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret – Judy Blume would be considered abuse material on such an asinine slope.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

Y’all need to read what CSAM is. Questionable or objectionable art isn’t CSAM in the same sense that drawing a murder isn’t murder and drawing Noncon isn’t rape.

it’s literally legally defined as CSAM in most western countries. and I probably wouldn’t be arguing otherwise, since it looks like the other dude who did that got all his posts deleted by the mod.

khepri, do games w It turns out Saudi Arabia will own 93.4 percent of EA if the buyout goes through, which is effectively all of it

Boy EA really hit rock bottom and just kept on a-diggin til they struck oil didn’t they.

OutwateredFish, do games w It turns out Saudi Arabia will own 93.4 percent of EA if the buyout goes through, which is effectively all of it
@OutwateredFish@lemmy.ca avatar

We are all children of jesus petro states.

desmosthenes, do games w It turns out Saudi Arabia will own 93.4 percent of EA if the buyout goes through, which is effectively all of it
@desmosthenes@lemmy.world avatar

EA games suck nowadays anyway; this was just a buyout for shareholders and founders.

YesButActuallyMaybe,

Remind me: when was this not the case? I never in my life heard anyone ever say ‘oh great, it’s an EA game’

utjebe,

Probably games around year 2000. Not so much recycling back then.

pinheadednightmare,

Yep, their early days were bad ass… pretty much like any company that starts out before they become corporate cock suckers

desmosthenes,
@desmosthenes@lemmy.world avatar

dead space, mirrors edge, original skate

yggstyle,

Just listed some of my favorites right there. ME was way ahead of it’s time. Banger game.

watson387,
@watson387@sopuli.xyz avatar
KaChilde, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle

The game company seems to have thought that they could drum up sales on other platforms by making this a media thing. Based on the additional platforms pulling out, it might have backfired. They could have let their little horse-porn game quietly release on every platform but Steam and made enough to get by. Instead they drew attention to themselves.

REDACTED,

Did it not work tho? This was my first itch.io purchase ever

KaChilde,

Not arguing the effectiveness of drumming up drama to sell your game, but they have also lost the accessibility of three major platforms in doing so.

Arcane2077, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle

No place for challenging art in video games. Books and movies have been pushing boundaries for millennia, but this new medium is way too effective at affecting people

-Valve, probably

markz,

I guess you wouldn’t be wrong to say that CSAM is challenging and pushes boundaries.

Arcane2077,

CSAM has nothing to do with this conversation. Are you lost?

Stabbitha,

Maybe look up why the game was rejected from Steam in the first place.

zqps,

The distinction may seem like nitpicking but no, CSAM is a legally defined term of depictions of actual children being sexually abused.

This game does not feature any such content. Not just because there are no depictions of real children, but also because the fictional children depicted aren’t subjected to sexual abuse.

Valve’s language cites “sexual conduct” which in this case reportedly (I didn’t watch it myself) has been stretched to include nudity that is non-sexual in nature.

I get why Valve would err on the side of caution, but that TOS decision is no basis to turn around and make the legally relevant claim that the game features actual CSAM.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

CSAM is literally why the game was banned from Steam.

cronenthal,

It is available on other, quite popular, stores. GOG and itch.io are household names in PC gaming.

Zorque,

As long as that house exclusively uses Linux.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

GOG and Itch sell mostly windows games.

Lifter, do games w This Minecraft map that recreates [Kowloon Walled City], one of history's most notorious slums made me reconsider what's important in 3D level design

Stop with the clickbait please.

crapwittyname,

That’s a decent little article which makes a fair point well. Which criteria are you using to define it as clickbait?

Lifter,

The headline is omitting a vital part of the article, namely the “one ingredient”. You have to read the artivke to finish the title, which can be a definition of clickbait.

crapwittyname,

For me, it didn’t trigger my clickbait alarm. Yes there’s a hook there but I’m already interested in Kowloon City, Minecraft and 3D design so I was happy to read it.
Maybe if the title had put “: people”, at the end then it would have been completely above board, but it’s still a far cry from something like “The New Minecraft Map That Recreates a A Demolished 90’s Era Enclave Has One Super Important Thing Missing!”, followed by pages of ads.

baconsunday,

What is the clickbait

Zoomboingding, (edited )
@Zoomboingding@lemmy.world avatar

We’re just used to it by now, but the title is phrased in a way to make you curious what the author meant by “what’s important in 3D level design”. I wouldn’t call this clickbait, but it’s definitely written in a way that intentionally omits the central conclusion. A better article title would say “Its lack of residents show how important this is for 3D level design”.

Lifter,

ExCepT for OnE InGreDiEnt!!

froufox,

It’s not clickbait, you see this line only after you clicked at the link

ilinamorato,

I read the article. It appears to deliver on the promise of the headline pretty completely. What is promised is a little bit too nuanced and complex to be neatly encapsulated in the headline any other way. The headline also isn’t sensationalized or misrepresentative of the content. And, honestly, the reason I think most people are clicking is for the Kowloon part, not the level design part. Are you just upset because it sounds a little bit like a LinkedIn status in its construction?

Lifter,

I’d orefer a title to summarize the article so that I know whether it’s worth my time investment to actually read it at all. Now, I’m put if by the blayant cliff hanger at the end of the title.

ilinamorato,

It’s a very good summary of the article. The things the author reconsidered were pretty nuanced, and trying to describe them in a headline without making the headline even longer than it is.

Would you have liked this better?

“This Minecraft map that recreates Kowloon Walled City, one of history’s most notorious slums, made me realize that 3D level design isn’t just about the complexity or the environmental challenge, but about the internal lives of the people who live there and the way that the game implies a greater reality that exists beyond the confines of the camera’s field of view”

Because that’s too long to fit in a tweet.

TalkingFlower,

“This, it should be stated, was not the objective of Sluda’s build. But it nonetheless made me think about what I deem important in virtual architecture and level design more broadly. My favourite games are always those that give me a complex, natty 3D space to unpick, like Dishonored 2’s Stilton Manor, Hitman’s Sapienza, and Thief: Deadly Shadows’ Shalebridge Cradle. But playing Sluda’s map made me realise these levels are more than just environmentally challenging sequences of rooms and corridors. They say something about the people who lived in those spaces, exuding their virtual history from their grimy walls, spooky attics, and beautifully recreated gelato shops.”

Yeah, but…

Minecraft will never achieve the writer’s design requirement; immersive sim level design philosophy is where he is aiming, where highly environmental detail for storytelling and possibly some competent AI, both hostile and friendly, to support the immersion.

MC is just a block-by-block construction, competent with building form, and it offers some simple decoration, and no more; I can’t see how it is a fair comparison.

Cocodapuf,

You might be too easy to bait.

Lifter,

I wasn’t baited. Didn’t read it.

Cocodapuf,

Right, because you smelled bait… which wasn’t actually there.

Deestan, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle

Looks like it has triggered someone’s “we can’t be seen backing down!” reflex at Valve

Goodeye8,

What are you on about?

Deestan,

The game being banned for a misunderstood piece of placeholder concept art in a Steam approval preview build, which was both removed, and explained. Then Valve refusing to reconsider it and rejecting all attempts to clarify their objections.

Goodeye8,

I know. It’s not Valve’s fault the developer fucked up and gave them the wrong build to review. But that has literally nothing to do with this article unless you’re somehow trying to insinuate that Valve influenced other storefronts.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

if one of the builds for your game contains CSAM, then I don’t really give a shit what alternative builds you have, I don’t want to play anything made by you. kudos to Valve for not dealing with pedophiles.

TalkingFlower, do games w This Minecraft map that recreates [Kowloon Walled City], one of history's most notorious slums made me reconsider what's important in 3D level design

He cites a lot of Immersive Sim level design, Minecraft does not have that sort of detail; it merely provides a block-by-block construction system with some rudimentary decoration, it’s not gonna achieve his design requirement.

cronenthal, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle

Based solely off the trailer I can see how a big American storefront would err on the side of caution here. There is very little to gain from carrying a game decidedly built with controversy in mind, but a lot to loose.

With the publicity around it and sales still possible through alternative stores maybe things will turn out alright for the developer in the end. “Banned” media is always in demand, after all.

Bronzebeard,

Unless it unexpectedly sells gangbusters, the dev says they’re likely to shut down as not having the massive steam audience to sell to won’t net them enough to continue. And people are stupidly loyal to valve for some reason.

Maestro,

That's because Valve is privately owned and this has largely resisted the enshittification that largely plagues public companies and private equity frims.

Bronzebeard,

Except people give them passes for shit that they don’t extend to other companies. The blind loyalty is stupid

Zorque,

Such as? Perhaps if you specified on what they’re getting a pass for people could be a little less blind.

markz,

It very well could be true, but the dev also seemed full of shit in the first interview I saw, pretending that he had no clue why it was banned.

Bronzebeard,

I mean, he released the communication he’s received. It’s not super clear. And the things he thinks it was isn’t even in the current version of the game

KaChilde,

The response said “no CSAM”.

If they had to scratch their heads trying to figure out what parts of the game needed to change to not include allusions to that, then they have bigger problems than not releasing on Steam.

yermaw,

They’d be as well carrying on. Its in a pretty unique position as being a game that people are talking about before its even finished, which is pretty uncommon for most titles, and can be “the game they tried to ban” which did wonders for Manhunt, GTA and Postal.

cronenthal,

Valve is pretty upfront about being a business first and foremost. Their customers are loyal because they consistently provide high value at reasonable prices, even though they are in a dominating position in the market. They’ve taken unpopular decisions in the past, but never any that seriously alienated a meaningful chunk of their customer base.

devolution, do games w It turns out Saudi Arabia will own 93.4 percent of EA if the buyout goes through, which is effectively all of it
@devolution@lemmy.world avatar

SA - fuck up everything.

Ludicrous0251, do games w The game "Horses" now barred on Steam, Epic and Humble Bundle

Steam was the first major storefront to refuse to carry Horses, a first-person psychological horror adventure about “the burden of familial trauma and puritan values, the dynamics of totalitarian power, and the ethics of personal responsibility” set on a ranch where nude human beings in horse masks are treated as livestock.

Publisher Santa Ragione said in November that Valve declined to carry Horses because it contained “content that appears, in our judgment, to depict sexual conduct involving a minor.” Santa Ragione disputed that characterization, but an appeal was rejected and the ban stands.

Seems like it’s treading a very fine line…

mech, do gaming w When the worst company in the world couldn't get any worse...

I wouldn’t call EA anywhere close to the worst company in the world.
Serious contenders based on their overall effect on humanity would be Monsanto, RTX, Aramco, UnitedHealth and Nestlé.

apfelwoiSchoppen,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

Exxon, Philip Morris, Boeing, Northrop Grumman…

TachyonTele,

Do they make video games?

apfelwoiSchoppen,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

If you follow the comment I replied to, they mentioned non-gaming companies.

cerebralhawks,

It’s from PC Gamer, so I think it’s safe to say they mean worst gaming company in the world. They could have said that though.

Even limited to gaming, EA, Ubisoft, and Activision have always been pretty much tied for it. Now Activision is part of Microsoft, and I think with both Activision and Bethesda and the shit the latter has caused lately, I think we can bump Ubisoft out. And I think when Copilot gaming rolls out, whatever they’re calling that, they’ll be worse than EA was before. The problem with EA isn’t so much what they were before though, it’s what they’ll be under SA leadership.

Gaming by megacorps has never been good for gamers, and it’s going to get worse. And yet people keep supporting them.

ZeroHora,
@ZeroHora@lemmy.ml avatar

Wtf is copilot gaming?

cerebralhawks,

It’s an AI assistant in your game that will help you, tell you where to go and whatnot by using Copilot to help by analysing your game.

Doesn’t sound too bad, I mean who cares if they see what you’re playing or how (bad) you’re playing? It’s just weird. Like the generations after mine used GameFAQs, or asked on Reddit, or watched YouTube videos. My generation read Nintendo Power, and shared tips on the playground or at school, whether we read it in a magazine or discovered it on our own. There were 1-900 numbers you could call, but no one I know called them. Maybe the rich kids did? I was forbidden from doing so (by my parents) and I never did. But that was actually another option. Like, Nintendo operated one. I think some of the third-party gaming magazines may have, as well. You could also write in, and maybe they’d publish your letter and a response, but that would take months.

PanArab,
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

Aramco and not Raytheon or Lockheed Martin or Palantir or Blackrock?

mech,

Raytheon is now called RTX.
They’re the ones who are so evil they keep having to rename themselves.

Grapho,
@Grapho@lemmy.ml avatar

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