He’s right, a product like that would have failed dramatically. At this point I just want them to release a dumb AF, streaming-only, inside-out tracking VR headset that connects to PCs. Forget trying to cram an expensive Qualcomm or AMD chip in there, it will never give you the ideal VR experience. Make something that’s $200 bucks, connects to any PC running SteamVR, and just does extremely well with streaming and low-latency. Both Airlink and VRDesktop have already shown that its possible to get extremely close to a cabled experience. All that’s left is some polish.
I just want to be able to buy something like an Oculus CV1 without Oculus software/proprietary hardware and a nicer screen. I’m still rocking the same unit I got several years ago and it’s still plenty fine for most things.
All of the fancy things like wireless and no-tower tracking are nice, but I imagine a lot of players are going to be seated and just want the immersion. Why not have a $300-400 offering that does this?
I could be wrong on this since I have no source but I always assumed that Oculus headsets were cheap because they’re a Meta product and you’re actually paying for it with your data/telemetry.
Like, the ungodly amount they spent on VR R&D is absolutely not being made up for by the few hundred dollar price tag on their headsets — I bet that barely covers the cost of materials. That must be for a reason.
I think having base stations not only increases price but also makes it unapproachable for a vast majority of people. Personally, I didn’t even consider the CV1 or the Index because I just didn’t have a room that could properly accommodate them. For the sitting use case, no-tower tracking is actually very suitable and probably works better.
even at ideal condition there is about 1~2ms latency(streaming 1080p game), while hitting 90hz requires 11ms frame time. so you are asking the game to at least perform at 111fps or above to function under said ideal condition. I think if some manufacturer can put together a chip set where they do the frame gen tech on the head set side, so the game just need to run at 60fps it would be a better option.(like PS VR ) Frame gen does require some other buffers to generate the in between frames, so that’s more info to stream over the bandwidth.
That’s basically what I got. Xreal Air (formerly Nreal until a C&D from Epic). 1080p per eye and something like 49PPD with a 45° FOV. Tracking is 6DOF and requires software on the host (only complaint) and connectivity is via a USB-C cable (uses DP alt mode).
It’s nearly as “dumb” as an HMD can get. From the teardowns that I’ve seen, it’s really just got an MCU, a GPIO expander, a 6DOF chip, and the displays + drivers. And I love that about it. No batteries or anything to worry about.
It is pretty narrow but also what makes it work, IMO. I don’t have them for immersion but for display replacement. The narrow field of view lets the 1080p display have nearly 0 screen door effect. Plus, the birdbath optics are really cheap compared to waveguides or fancy lenses in VR headsets.
This has been on my radar for a while to compliment my steam deck. But I believe it doesn’t do head tracking with the steam deck or does it? I just want a floating screen in front of me that stays still when moving my head around, otherwise I’m gonna hurl!
I think it’s great for my Deck but, that will indeed be a problem. The headset contains only the sensors and display systems but, none of the logic circuitry to “pin” displays. Including that would increase the price a good deal.
Understood thanks for the feedback. After posting you reignited my interest and I found out that they also have their product called beam which would do the trick to make a spatial display… if you’re willing to cough up another 120 for it!
Yeah… I’m not :P But, I am plotting a DIY solution. A solution that will probably cost more than $120 on components but, I think it will still be worth it.
So, I’ve got one for my steam deck and it’s less an issue than you might think, in my opinion.
When you’re focused on the screen, it doesn’t create too much incongruity when the background shifts, and it’s easy to just let you brain parse the screen as something that just floats in front of you.
It’s not immersive enough to get the inner ear involved and confused. It’s a lot closer to holding a phone sideways about six inches from your face and moving your head around.
The only time it felt weird was when I was using it in a well lit room, and I shifted my focus to something not on the screen, that was closer than the apparent distance to the floating display. It was weird feeling my vision try to reconcile that the nearer thing was moving behind the far thing.
Well, they also sell weapon skins that cost as much as the entire game used to cost. So I’m sure they are just trying to do damage control while also not changing their monetization.
I don’t mind it if the game was always free to play. They gotta make their money somehow if that’s the case. The problem I have with Overwatch and the microtransactions is that they went free to play after they already made a fuck ton of money off of loot boxes and the fact that you used to actually have to buy the game. It’s just a cash cow and gameplay (including matchmaking, like you said) has suffered considerably. Not only that but they charge as much money as entire games for skins. Games like Overwatch when it first came out.
I don’t mind microtransactions in free to play games, I really don’t. It’s just the method they are using is just blatantly greedy and targeted for whales that will pay anything for fear of missing out.
I am with you on that one. I was speaking from the point of view of someone who didnt buy ow1 because I only got into the game after ow2 so I completely forgot it wasnt free before. Its sad how nowadays you cannot ever have “complete” games. Most games just few unpolished and unfinished and they just throw things at it trying to make money. Which for me is so ironic because I think ow has a solid gameplay mechanic - it just gets completely shadowed by all the financial decisions.
Things went out the window for me when Niki Minaj killed Messi with a neon green sub-machinegun. You’d think that would be a great game, but it’s a bit too much for my likings.
I never really agreed when people said that they want their super realistic call of duty, but this really is just absurd. Even if these skins were free is would be obnoxious. At this point you can only blame the poeple who buy that garbage
On the one hand I agree, it was obviously a calculated move to bait sales before microtransactions were added, which is incredibly scummy. But on the other hand, if a game reviewer gave it a certain score before microtransactions were added and nothing was altered/removed from the experience that was originally reviewed, I guess I don’t see the problem with the score they assigned at the time (assuming it was reviewed in good faith).
You can install it out of the box and disable game updates and not see any microtransactions, which will let you play it exactly as it was when it was first reviewed. You won’t get to do any online play, but I guess the bigger takeaway in that case is that any game which relies on online/live service elements for continued engagement needs to have a big fucking “CAVEAT EMPTOR” on every review.
To be fair, most games these days have build in update checking, and more and more multiplayer games are always-online-or-piss-off type of games which shoot down your idea. I wish it was still possible in all games, but alas…
Right, but what I was getting at with how prone to change online experiences inherently are, it seems odd to rely on reviews to begin with. Sure I suppose it is irresponsible for a publication to make claims about the quality of an online experience, knowing that there is no guarantee of consistency over time, but the customer also shouldn’t approach any online/live service experience with an expectation of consistency, because change is inherent to the model. Enjoy it while it lasts if it is fun, but again, caveat emptor.
The feeling of betrayal people have about online experiences is thankfully leading to pushback against live service models in general. Too many companies out there doing bait and switch bullshit.
If a game like Tekken happens to have a solid campaign and fun local multiplayer, I would be okay with leaving a good review up, because that is pretty much all that would have been reviewed ahead of time before there were other players to do online modes with. If a publication has a specific “no microtransactions” criteria, though, then I suppose they can do whatever they like afterwards. But anyone should be able to still obtain the day 1 version of the game and play it offline if you don’t like the direction they went with its updates. You might just need to be more creative on PC to find them.
It’s nitpicking, whether it runs at 3840x2160 or 4096x2160 does not matter. Same goes for calling it 4K or UHD, even when one is technically incorrect.
If even Sony calls their 3840x2160 blu-rays “4K UHD” I’m fine with the average person using them interchangeable.
The logic of some people goes that anything under 4000 horizontal pixels is not “real” 4k. But as mentioned, I don’t care and also call 3840x2160 “4k” simply because it’s shorter than “2160p”.
Calling 3840x2160 "4k" makes sense since 3840 is so close.
On a different note sometimes I've heard people call 2560x1440 for "2k" but neither 2560 nor 1440p are close to 2k so that makes little sense to me
And I don’t want a definition for “4k DCI” or “4k UHD” … just a formally accepted definition of “4k” (in the context of a display resolution). We can all agree that it colloquially means the number 4000, I hope.
There is not one definition, if you hear “4K” you can use the context of the conversation to determine if they’re talking about the consumer 4K UHD format or cinematic 4K, neither of which have a vertical resolution of exactly 4000px. UHD standards are maintained by ITU DCI standards were developed by the DCI group and are now maintained by SMPTE
There is not one definition, if you hear “4K” you can use the context of the conversation to determine if they’re talking about the consumer 4K UHD format or cinematic 4K
I had to go digging but 3840x2160 is both 2160p AND 4k UHD. 4096x2160 is something called 4K DCI which is more of a camera or film industry thing and is rarely used for things like TVs or video games.
Correct, but both can be called 2160p just because of their vertical resolution. Overall both terms don’t matter in gaming because aspect ratio can be changed on the fly (on PC) depending on the output device. Haven’t touched a console in years but I assume they are stuck with a 16:9 aspect ratio no matter what they are playing on?
1080p 1080i 720p (IE the i/p suffix) denotes a SMPTE resolution and timing.
HD/FHD/UHD (720,1080,2160 respectively) also denote SMPTE resolutions and timings.
These are SMPTE ST2036-1 standards, which are 16:9 and have defined (but not arbitrary) frame rates up to 120fps.
4k DCI is still a SMPTE timing, but used for cinema and is generally 24fps (tho can be 48fps for 2k DCI).
It’s SMPTE 428-1.
There are other “4k” standards, but not nearly as common.
If you have arbitrary resolutions or timings outside of the SMPTE standards, and generally fall into VESA standard resolution/timings or custom EDID resolution/timings.
Chances are your computer is actually running 1920x1080@60 CVT-RB rather than 1080p60.
Whilst 1080p60 and 1920x1080@60 seem like they should be the same, some displays (and devices) might only support SMPTE timings or VESA timings.
So, although a display is 1920x1080 it might expect SMPTE, but the device can only output VESA.
No problem.
Displays, resolutions, framrates, edids are all very complex. And marketing muddies the water!
I’ve encountered this issue before when using BlackMagic equipment.
What I was plugging into was described to me as “1080p”.
Laptop directly into it would work, and it looked like 1080p in windows display management.
Going through BlackMagic SDI converters (SDI is a SMPTE standard protocol, so these boxes went hdmi->sdi, sdi cable, sdi->hdmi, and would only support SMPTE resolutions/timings), the display wouldn’t work.
Because the display was VESA only.
4K UHD (along with 8K UHD and 16K UHD) are the consumer format standards for 3840x2160 image formats which includes Blu-ray. Full 4K or True 4K or DCI 4K is the cinematic 4K standard shown at 4096x2160, which many TVs supper via slight letterboxing
You are smoking crack if you think Roblox is a gmod knockoff, but everything else, unfortunately, yeah. I played Roblox in 2012 and it was pretty fun at 11 years old but the pay2win stuff was out of control even back then.
There were a few weird roleplay servers but back then it really just felt like “playing house” online, but the fact that anyone regardless of age could hop in at any time and send socials was fucking weird to me even as a kid.
It needs a serious rework of how the platform works if they want to continue marketing themselves as for children. The game has seen barely any safety improvements from what I’ve seen of current gameplay and mfs are wilin on the internet nowadays
I don’t know how many people are behind this, but I think they implement the consent frameworks manually, so if it doesn’t work you can report the website in the extension and help other people in the future with your contribution!
Seriously…idk why they are so…obtuse to fixing shiz sometimes. Granted we are talking about the same company that won’t embrace fan work the same as Sega so they’re kinda backwards imo. Esp since that stuff usually isn’t making money or is free promo for the real shiz Ala streaming and reviews. They’re not very smart imo on a lot of things and seem to punish fans for having fun with shiz too much…
I mean I doubt it. Hall effects have been on the market for ages(notably the dreamcast as a few other comments reminded me). They can’t possibly stop hall effects and mods that allow them at this point XD
You can patent a specific implementation of a technology, but not usually the principles behind that tech. Nintendo had patented this, too, but that likely has little to no effect on other hall effect joystick manufacturers.
I stopped playing shortly after OW2 came out. They killed my favorite role (tank) by throwing one of the tanks away, making the tank role miserable to play since the team fights were always on my shoulders. Then, on top of that, they unbalanced everything even more, and had to update maps for 5v5, forever removing some of them from the game.
That was all after the slap in the face that was taking away a game I paid money for to replace it with a broken, microtransaction-ridden experience.
I might be willing to look past the microtransaction BS and play again if they bring 6v6 with some of the original, unmodified OW1 maps.
The biggest issue is that IMO, even nowadays balance isn’t remotely as good as it was before the change, owing to the massive imbalance on all ends the 5v5-switch introduced, and them only working through that at a glacial pace. But even more so, this is annoying because of how it essentially undermines the reason they did this.
Sure, the queue time argument still stands. Yeah. But on a balance level, “Double tanks were problematic for game balance” is a bit of a moot point in hindsight. Yeah, they were, sure. Less so than 5v5 is, it turns out.
I mean you’ve got people who are defending Bilzzard’s newest horse armor bullshit so yeah.
ETA: Yup, got quite a few Hardcore Gamers^TM in the thread defending this BS already with ‘it’s just cosmetics’, all fighting games do it, or won’t someone think of the devs, like like they think the developers are getting a cut off the money.
Yeah, you can find vocal people who will play the apologist for just about anything, it‘s baffling to the degree that I wonder if there‘s paid actors on social media in this sense
Gaming “journalism” can’t afford outright say “company deliberately tries to hide enshittification of their game” aloud. Might lose that access to selective early copies for review!
Close enough is fine with me, especially on a smaller screen. Imagine if it was like what we have with the Xbox Series S. It can play all the latest games just scaled down a little graphics wise, but not enough that most people would even notice the difference.
I think it’s saying a patent about hall effect sensors specifically relating to Nintendo and Switch style implementations. Obviously it’s not for the concept at large that’s been around for decades.
I loved my Dualsense too, and then the left stick started drifting so badly, it’s completely unusable now. It’s only about a year old, too. I blame Sekiro. Both my DS4s still work fine though, and they’ve seen much more use and abuse.
True, but you still do a lot of moving around with the left stick. And when you’re stressed out about imminent death at any moment, that can be hard on the sticks.
I loved Sekiro! My first time through the game, I probably died on that first miniboss a hundred times. On NG+, I got to and killed Lady Butterfly without dying once. What an amazing game. I should probably go back and finish up NG+ once Elden Ring lets go of me.
Ps5 controller was just as bad… I’m on my 3rd now and most of my friends are on their 2nd. I also had 1 switch controller go bad as well, but I also don’t play switch as much. This entire generation had the best controllers but also the worst problems I have ever had. Prior to these 2 systems I have never had a controller break before and I’m going back to original NES days.
I was talking about the PS5 controller. My DS4s (the PS4 controller) are holding up much better. At least the internals. The rubber on the sticks wore off, and I had to replace the tops. That was much easier than the 14 contacts-per-stick I have to de-and-re-solder on the Dualsense (PS5 controller) when I work up the courage to try that.
I loved my Dualsense too, and then the left stick started drifting so badly, it’s completely unusable now. It’s only about a year old, too
I really think that something changed with a major potentiometer manufacturer in the past few years. I don't recall stick drift on a PS2 controller that I used for many years, but I've seen it on a number of controllers from different vendors recently.
Only thing I can think of other than recent hardware problems is that maybe the controller hardware imposed a certain amount of deadzone at one point in time and stopped doing so in newer gamepads, and that masked the drift.
I really think that something changed with a major potentiometer manufacturer in the past few years.
I’ve heard a lot of hearsay that that is the case. Tech savvy people have taken apart some sticks and say that analog stick quality has taken a nosedive in recent years. Maybe it is just the effect of this sort of thing being discussed on the Internet more often, but I don’t doubt the veracity. I’ve had a few older controllers that I retired because of external wear whose internals were totally fine. Seems like controllers like Dualsense and particularly Switch Joycons are just poorly made.
Glancing over the patent, I don’t think Hall effect sensors are used here. Note especially the use of a fluid, and the presence of variable resistors (parts that can wear out in current-gen controllers) for each axis.
Instead, this looks like an analog stick force-feedback mechanism that could also be used for automatic re-centering:
Accordingly, in the first example, control of current to be applied to the MRF is performed in the way as described below, thus achieving both presentation of a feeling using the MRF and an initial position restoration operation.
This wouldn’t keep the potentiometers from wearing out, but with the right software, I imagine it could automatically adjust the sticks to compensate for mild drift. (I don’t know if this would work any better than plain old calibration; it’s definitely more complicated.) Also, games could dynamically adjust stick resistance, like the DualSense can adjust trigger resistance, for interactivity/immersion.
I wonder how much this would affect battery life, how long the fluid mechanism would last with normal wear and tear, and how environmentally toxic it will be when it eventually becomes e-waste.
The PDF linked in the article seems to be a scanned image, so control+F doesn’t work, but the text is searchable here: patents.justia.com/patent/20230280850
Whoa, that force feedback mechanism sounds really cool! It might not be able to force movement but it would provide resistance to movement. I could imagine it as if your player character is walking into a wall and the joystick wont let you push forward.
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