I get the nostalgia for simpler times, but fighting games have benefited so much from the fact that they can now be patched and updated over the internet.
Marvel vs. Capcom 2 had 56 characters, but ~6 of them were so strong that they rendered the rest of the roster nearly unplayable in comparison. And this is one of the games that was most fondly remembered! For every hit like that there were a dozen more that were so much worse they were quickly abandoned and forgotten.
For all the backlash to season 2, Tekken 8 is arguably still in a better place than the vast majority of pre-online fighting games. People are mad because standards have gotten so much higher, now that games do get patched we expect those patches to be better.
I’m quickly arriving at the desire to at least have these games lock in at the end of a season. They typically don’t make big changes during a season anyway. For as much as people were tired of buying Super, Ultra, Arcade, and Revelator releases of a game they already have, surely in the DLC era we can just treat them as expansion packs and still go back and play the old versions if we want to. However, due to skins and such, there’s an incentive for them to not keep the old version around. I really liked Guilty Gear Strive season 1 and didn’t care much for season 2. I would have loved to keep playing season 1 instead at the time, but it was gone. A lot of Dragon Ball FighterZ fans are mourning the game that they loved that isn’t accessible anymore.
Edition Select like in USF4 would be rad. But I think I'd just like to see a universal way for platforms to let you roll back to any version of any game. Wouldn't even require any extra work on developers' part, platform holders would just maintain an archive of patches.
Supporting it can be extra work; hosting the old versions costs the platform holder more money. It’s not automatic, but I really want them to figure it out. USF4 definitely required a ton of work for their edition select, but what I’m asking for is much closer to the boot menu of StarCraft/Brood War rather than picking the exact balance patch from a list of dozens, lol.
Don't know about other platforms, but it's worth noting that Steam already does keep old versions and there's some command line method that can force download an older depot. Valve could offer UI to officially support this.
Something that you may not be considering is that a big part of live service updates is stopping cheaters. Whether the game is balanced or not doesn't matter at all if other players are flying through the map and insta-killing everybody else.
Allowing the use of old versions of your game will consequentially allow cheaters to continue having access to known, exploitable files. Even if those files are no longer in use in the "live" version of the game, giving cheaters a sandbox to experiment in inevitably allows for further exploits to be discovered in the live version.
Normally games shouldn't allow players on different versions to connect to each other. Version checks may be something devs need to explicitly implement, but surely most games should already have them or else I have questions for the developers.
Also, in the context of fighting games specifically, this is largely a nonissue. Fighting game netcode works by sending button inputs only, and the other client will play back those inputs to independently verify the outcome. There's very little cheaters can try to do that won't just result in a desync. To my knowledge there's only ever been one cheating scandal in the FGC, and the accused turned out to be innocent in the end.
Hmm… I don't see how that hurts, yes. Problem with fighting games is you cannot release new characters without balance patches otherwise you break the game for half your roster if not more. And people absolutely want new characters.
But locking games at specific points maybe is worth exploring, yes.
It's not like I'm saying I hate classic fighters, or that there aren't any I still enjoy today. I've got plenty of hours on FightCade just dicking around in various random kusoge. I'm traveling to Combo Breaker in two weeks, and I signed up for six different brackets, two of which are retro titles (Waku Waku 7 and Twinkle Star Sprites) (you could also count Mystery Bracket, but the point of Mystery is to play trash that doesn't hold up).
But the games that have stood the test of time are few and far between. They're the exception, not the rule. If you think your game is too good for patches because it worked for Vampire Savior, you're a lot more likely to end up like SVC Chaos.
From a developer's perspective, they have to adapt to a changing market. All your competitors are iterating and improving their games, you need to keep up.
And hell, some of the most popular classics are patches in a sense. People play Super Turbo and Third Strike, but no one's playing World Warrior or New Generation. At least now players don't have to buy those kinds of 'patches' for full price.
A game can be fun in spite of balance. MvC2 is a beloved game even with its six character meta. But when there's room for improvement, and the internet now makes improvement possible, devs should take the opportunity to improve as much as they can.
Also, speaking of Tekken 5 - are you talking about the initial arcade release, the rebalanced console port, the "5.1" arcade rerelease, or Dark Resurrection? Because those totally count as patches.
That's the thing, there really was never a better time for fighting games 😂 I know it sounds preposterous, but back then if your main was in a re-release, you had to buy the whole game again to play, now you can just pay for a character DLC, or a season pass, and both are significantly cheaper.
Balance changes can be an issue, I agree, but in terms of how much the average player needs to spend on a game, things have improved.
There has been one constantly updated game that I loved, I think because it wasn’t actually live service.
Dead Cells! They were always putting out balance passes but also included a new weapon occasionally, then would release a true DLC that added new levels, new enemies and new weapons. Would spend some time balancing that drop and eventually release a new one.
I miss games like that, I’m happy to buy an expansion of a game I love, not going to buy a new battlepass or skins or whatever though.
This is exactly what fighting games do though. A season is an expansion (new characters) and there typically is a balance patch after a new character drops, then they move on to a new season.
IDK what people who don't play fighting games think a season is, but judging by some comments in this thread, not every one seems to know.
As I typed that I kinda forgot this post was about a Fighting game. I was speaking more generally about GaaS. It’s good fighters still have something akin to old school DLC!
I would normally agree with you. But a fighting game is completely about the balance. You’re assuming the team under crunch, aiming for a financially-beneficial release date magically got it 100% right the first time, under pressure. In reality, they’re responsible for balance. They got it wrong, but it sounds like they’ll fix it.
Game seasons are not really the same thing as live service games though.
I’m really not into Tekken but there are games I play that have setup. Of course probably the most famous of all been Foxhole.
Anyway the point is that without “seasons” (simply called that because it harkens back to TV not because there are necessarily four in a year) there isn’t really any natural conclusion to the game, so you have short tournaments and people rank up within those tournaments, but obviously you don’t want the tournaments to go on for too long because otherwise there’s no way in for new players as they’ll start way down the rankings and not be able to compete. The solution for this is to reset everything every season, but then you’ve got the problem that people learn the meta and are able to rank up to high ranks almost immediately, whereas newer players don’t stand a chance so you haven’t really fixed the problem, the solution to that is to change the meta every season. That way everyone has an equal chance of working it out for themselves and ranking up.
I’m pretty sure they even did this with OverWatch back in the day.
Yeah, this is not applicable to fighting games, not in the past, not now.
In the past: they didn't do live updates because the technology didn't allow it, but they re-released the same game 100 times (See how many versions of Street Fighter 2 exist as an example)
Now: we get one version + balance patches and DLCs, and decent publishers do repackages after every season to make sure the price of the base game + DLC doesn't exceed the initial price mark: typically $60.
Game balance is so easy, you fonit once and then it’s perfect forever. No new characters, just buy a new game, just like in the street fighter 2 days. What a braindead take.
In this context, Tekken and other fighting games have competitive and content seasons. Where over a year winners from large international events earn places in a final, and new characters/stages are released
After the final there is normally a very large update to the game which comes with new game mechanics and large balance changes, and the start of a content season pass. With enough time before the first tournament kicks off(street fighter is being weird this year though)
For Tekken that season patch dropped recently but was a massive let down(fuck up) and the community wasn’t happy with it at all.
Pretty much for as long as online games have gotten updates. DOTA kinda codified it with the Battle Pass system but WoW battlegrounds/arena had seasons way before that. They’ll wait and do content/balance updates in chunks and that effects the meta in waves defined as “seasons”.
It’s everywhere now. It can be weaponized FOMO or a clean way to provide regular novelty without being tied down to legacy content.
wouldnt go as far as saying that hasan is a decent human being. no doubt, i rank im way higher than elmo. but that guy is still problematic on so many levels even if his believes align here there with my own. but to apply even more nuance to my shitpost: the most unfair part of my post was to generelise an individual single dev beeing the entirety of the soulless corporation of ubisoft.
/hmm, lots of fans around here. idk how one can fall for this disingenuous fuckface. but you do you.
Hasan, Elon and Ubisoft… what is this, a shit triangle?
no doubt, i rank im way higher than elmo.
idk how one can fall for this disingenuous fuckface.
you know who was disingenuous a moment ago? you.
wouldnt go as far as saying that hasan is a decent human being
Why? just to be clear decent doesnt mean you have to like him, it doesnt mean he is perfect. it just means he generally stands for whats good. he is a good person. its not really a high bar to clear.
decent, adjective
<span style="color:#323232;">1.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">conforming with generally accepted standards of respectable or moral behaviour.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">"a decent clean-living individual"
</span>
i hope you realize how much right wing propaganda has gotten to you. if you really care, you should watch hasan’s interview with novara media.
And if you think he doesnt do enough, well he recently went to a bernie/aoc rally and streamed the entire rally to 50k+ viewers. he has done fund raisers for good causes. he went to union protests to raise awareness. many other things that i dont remember right now. thats on top of the positive political commentary he does, in a space that is almost completely dominated by right wingers. you dont have to completely agree with him to realize he is a genuine force for good.
tbh not in the mood to argue with you about it. if your a hasan fan. fair enough. i’m not. as i said i dont consider him as bad as elon, not even in the same ball park. but i still consider him shit. i was even subscribed to him a few years ago. i’ve seen enough first hand. my views on him arent filtered through takes of others.
so i was about to give you the win by going silent and just leave it be.
but:
i hope you realize how much right wing propaganda has gotten to you.
Not who you responded to, but can you share why you don’t like Hasan? I’ve mostly just seen clips of him talking with AOC and Bernie and when he covered the writer’s strike. I don’t know much about him and his content otherwise so I’m wondering if there’s more I should know?
Not the guy. I’ve watched a decent bit of Hasan and if you only listen to what he says, not examine what he does or who he does it for, then he probably seems like a champion for leftist causes.
That being said, he works for Night Media and definitely does not put his money where his mouth is. I personally dislike the hypocrisy.
Night media is a talent agency that was associated with Mr. Beast (you know, during his most popular years) and is still associated with Asmongold (you know, propaganda pointed at young men).
Hasan Piker is the son of a billionaire from Turkey. While I don’t know the specifics of how much money he’s received from him, if any, that doesn’t really matter. The man is a multi millionaire who has made his money on a platform that is absolutely riddled with propaganda mouthpieces. Many people do not see an issue with this, I do.
He also really loves to claim he’s a socialist, yet is a multi millionaire (after buying him and his family a 2.7 million dollar home in L.A.). Too many things don’t add up for me, so I stopped watching him.
All that being said, idk what’s in his heart of hearts. He might not be a bad guy, I might be assuming the worst. Make of it what you will.
Champagne socialist, supports piracy on innocent people, tankie - criticizes Christianity and American imperialism but supports Islam and China’s imperialism.
Wait, did you seriously create an account just to fanboy for Hasan - the champagne socialist, literal piracy supporter, and tankie? Wow, this is really sad.
This applies to the two streamers mentioned as well.
They are both grifters and scoundrels. Elmo is much worse of course, but it’s not exactly much of an achievement if one is better than the most corrupt and degenerate American oligarch.
anyways for context for those not terminally online, Hasan is a leftist twitch streamer (who supports Ukraine*), he made a tweet advertising ac shadows.
some far right elon fan made a brain dead comment about it and elon took the opportunity to also dunk on hasan (because surely he has nothing else to do right?) calling him a “a sellout”, to which hasan replied:
this bitch literally paid someone to powerlevel his character in poe2 lmao. wym i’m a fraud? elon i challenge you to a duel in elden ring. i will cook your fat rolling ass.
which got some 30k likes.
now hasan reply was already a ratio enough but then assassin’s creeds official acc decided to completely destroy elon:
Is that what the guy playing your Path of Exile 2 account told you?
its so bad that even asmongold isnt taking elons side on this one
elons isnt taking this well understandably. getting burned on a platform that he brought for 44b that gotta hurt lmao. like literally no one in the streamers/gaming space is taking his side. anyone that does immediately gets ratioed in the replies.
We should probably be thankful that that narcissistic manchild is so addicted to his social media. Imagine how much more destructive shit he could have accomplished if he actually put his mind to it.
He is a leftist political twitch streamer, supports Ukraine (just so we can get the fake tankie allegations out of the way), recently did an interview with bernie and aoc, and is just overall a solid character. Now admittedly he had some bad takes over the years but he has apologized/clarified them later.
Definitely massive. Never played it because I assume it’s too micro transaction focused but even more reason to believe they should have the cash to pay their talent
As someone who does actually play it - it’s only microtransaction focused if you get FOMO and like to collect all playable characters.
Usually you can guarantee a new high rarity unit once every two months or so of playing, but the real endgame is just exploring and there is no need to pay anything ever.
This is such a nothing article. “We asked the creative head of the Space Marine 2 team if he thought the PS5 Pro would improve the framerate. His SHOCKING answer??? ‘Maybe.’”
It’s bad and it’s kids. Like, the game is no better if you doin’t aim it at kids, but the fact they intentionally employ child labor as a gamified device is just disgusting.
It’s a game designed for kids with not enough moderation/limitations for a kids game. There’s literal porn games if you look in the right places (called ‘condo games’)
Yeah, the other problem with these kinds of open-ended social games that are heavily aimed at children is that adults who want to exploit children will play those games for that express purpose.
Same issue with games like VRChat, and to a less extent, Fortnite.
And I could say at least Kamala doesn’t have all her political opponents locked up. I wouldn’t do that though because boiling a politician down to a single issue doesn’t make any sense.
Maybe not to you, but when 15,000 children have been murdered and an entire population is starving, then boiling a politician down to a single issue does make sense to me.
I’m not apathetic, I’ve actively contacted my representatives demanding a cease fire. I’ve donated for aid for Gaza. Considering what Erdogan has done to the Kurds I find you argument extra rich. By all means continue to act all self righteous when I will be the one who has to deal with the other guy if you keep carrying water for his campaign.
Would you have an idea about what they would care about? Like are they just virtue signaling hard? Why not?
Like I could see Russians or Chinese or Republicans pushing this point just to sow division on the Israel point. But why “tankies”? Maybe I should just google it
people claiming to care about Palestinians but then encouraging votes against them. Voting any way but for Harris will harm them and that’s easy to reason through but they don’t care. Ergo they do not give an actual flying fuck about any Palestinian, they just want to be seen as doing so.
You can do the right thing for the wrong reasons and this is a classic case. He’s an ethno-nationalist. Ask him how he feels about Kurdish minorities or the genocide of Armenians.
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