Hardware is not the only thing that can be emulated. Here’s an example. To claim that things emulating software components are not emulators is simply incorrect, like claiming that squares are not rectangles. It’s always disappointing to see someone spreading that falsehood.
It’s true that Wine is not a hardware emulator, nor is Proton. But make no mistake: they are both emulators.
The unfortunate backronym made a kind of sense 20 years ago. At the time, lawsuits were flying hard and fast at projects offering APIs and tools modeled after commercial operating systems (Unix variants), and there was no established case law protecting them. The prospect of Wine contributors getting sued into oblivion by Microsoft was a very plausible threat. Rebranding it as “Wine Is Not an Emulator” helped frame it as something different as it grew and gained attention, and although that phrase is inaccurate, “Wine Is Not a Hardware Emulator” wouldn’t have fit the existing name or distanced it from being seen as a Windows work-alike. Also, most emulators of the time happened to be hardware emulators, so it didn’t seem like a terribly big stretch.
That time is gone, though. The legal standing for software based on reverse engineering is more clear than it was then. Microsoft has not sent its lawyers after our favorite runtime emulator. The backronym was thankfully abandoned by the project some years ago. Weirdly, there are still people on social media spreading false statements about what the word does and doesn’t mean.
The term “Emulator” is not well defined and the boundaries are not always clear. But in computer hardware and software, emulation usually refers to CPU emulation. Overall one could argue that WINE is an emulation, because it emulates a certain “thing”. But as said in computer science it has accepted by most people (for the sake of having categories) that CPU emulation is emulation, and otherwise its not. Especially if we talk in context of videogame emulation. Like Virtual Machines are no emulators, because they do not emulate the CPU itself.
Slightly offtopic: I often discuss and justify why I do not consider FPGA an emulator. Sure it emulates another hardware, but in the terms of console emulation of videogames, FPGA executes the CPU cycles native. There is no middle layer in between that needs to be interpreted, it runs the CPU commands that was “programmed into”. So FPGA is mimicking, not emulating.
Just like with many other words in human language (which also is not clear across all translations and dialects of human language), the term “emulation” is just not 100% defined and there is nobody who has the definitive answer to it. And that’s okay. It’s a “domain specific” language; which means, you have to specify it before in order to make use. Otherwise you can assume it from context its “usual” meaning. Does not mean its clear, but it means nobody has the right to act like having a clear definition and saying anyone else is wrong.
as said in computer science it has accepted by most people (for the sake of having categories) that CPU emulation is emulation, and otherwise its not.
It’s important to keep in mind that things said in computer science for the sake of having categories are usually said within the very narrow implicit context of a particular field of study, like microprocessor design. It makes sense there for the sake of brevity, just as arcane acronyms make sense when everyone in the room understands what they stand for in that context. But the context no longer applies when we’re out in the rest of the world using a word that is not so narrowly defined, as we are now.
I think we mostly agree, because you pointed this out yourself:
It’s a “domain specific” language; which means, you have to specify it before in order to make use.
However, I want to clarify my position in response to this:
nobody has the right to act like having a clear definition and saying anyone else is wrong.
I often encounter people on social media chiding or mocking others for referring to Wine as an emulator, which is disheartening for a number of reasons. Importantly, the people reading such comments are being taught that it’s wrong to call Wine an emulator, when in fact it is not wrong at all. Wine’s very purpose is to emulate. This is plainly visible not just in how it is used, but also in how it is developed (many of its behaviors are reverse engineered Windows behaviors, departing from the API docs) and how it functions (it does a heck of a lot more than translating system calls).
The Wine project’s FAQ acknowledges the misunderstanding, a bit indirectly, by pointing out that it is “more than just an emulator”.
Unfortunately, since most people in the discussions I mentioned have no visibility into Wine’s internals, they don’t know any better than to accept what they were told by multiple people on the internet. They are misled by a smug few who love to tell others they’re wrong by repeating that officially abandoned slogan that was never really true (at least not in the context that framed it) in the first place. And then some of the misled people adopt it themselves, so we end up with more of the “you’re wrong” attitude, perpetuation of a ridiculously narrow understanding of the word, and people who publish about the topic performing awkward linguistic gymnastics to avoid simply saying “emulator” for fear of rebuke.
I think all three of those results make the world a little worse, so I’m here to let everyone reading know that it’s perfectly appropriate to call Wine (or Proton) an emulator. Anyone who claims it’s wrong to do so is perhaps a hardware field specialist who has lost sight of the importance of context in language, or (more likely) either honestly mistaken or an internet troll.
Besides those toxic people who claim something and everyone else is wrong, its not too bad. In the end, all it is about is just one tells someone else a specific definition of a word. And in a sense he is always right, because he (or she) is defining it at that moment.
I understand what you are saying there (last paragraph), but, there is context if one says Wine is not an emulator (not because of its name). The reason is, we are talking about software emulation in the sense of gaming. And there are emulators to play videogames literally emulating other systems. And we have other words to make a category for distinguishing reasons such as Virtual Machines or API compatible or ABI compatible too. I’m fully aware of the fuzzyness of the terms. I’m also fully aware what upsets you when people tell others Wine is not an emulator. But they do it with intentions to teach (such as you and me here), at least usually. Trolls aside or “idiots” aside.
So looks like you are right; we agree each other us here.
Not a fan of someone who uses the r-slur and makes a show of not being “woke,” but I agree that that list is utterly ludicrous. Flagging something like it’s practically unplayable because you can if you search for them find a couple of same-sex characters in the ass end of nowhere holding hands is kinda mind-blowing.
They even complained about someone claiming to be asexual. Seriously?? Someone not wanting sex is the big horrible Woke Agenda™ being shoved down poor, innocent Gamers™’ throats? Look here, it’s incels doing reverse wokism “making” a game engine because Real Men™ never use a premade one! Don’t think about why they would want to associate with a general-purpose game engine despite also claiming that every dev must make their own! Thinking is WOKE! You’ll turn gay if you think!
Because of idiots like them, either not understanding what woke means, or by taking it to comical extreme, real issues get buried under. I wouldn’t be surprised if this list was created by an Ai or was meant to be funny in the first place. I would say some stuff there has nothing to do with wokeness at all, such as gay relationships is too woke for them. I go this far and say whoever made that list seems to be anti-gay.
And that’s my take, going too extreme is always bad and destroys any nuances and makes real problems hard to find and discuss.
Don’t multiplayer PC games have anti cheat software that is malware-esque and often times root level? I seem to see folks pissed about all the anti cheat software on PC all the time
Point being, don’t you get fucked to play online one way or the other anymore?
PC players have the choice to install that software when they install the game. It’s easy to know which games use DRM and invasive keenel level anti cheats. Console players have no idea how much personal info they are leaking to a broader audience and their 800 corporate friends.
But my point is, if you want to play said game onlline, you have to give up your privacy in unknown ways, too. There’s no way to know what Denuvo or whatever is sending off to their 800 corporate friends or what they’re collecting while you play, either.
everyone already talked about the games that came out the last month? you can find endless oodles of detailed information, you can go look at the critic ratings via metacritic/opencritic, you can go look at the last months worth of social media threads about games, it’s really endless
i don’t think there’s a lack of information there, I understand you’d like a compact packaged version (and i’m certain someone on youtube provides that if you go look) but It’s really not hard to understand why people would be more interested in a video about future unknowns, over just seeing what happened last month, which you probably already know, you were there.
I understand your point. It will be good to have videos of past months or year game video. But getting to see the upcoming games video kind of gives a feeling of hope that something is coming soon. I am personally hyped for dragon dogma 2!
i mean lets be honest, you won’t want the video regardless. you just want the list in the description so that you can give your opinion without watching the video.
that’s okay, it’s a discussion forum, but lets be honest with ourselves.
That’s cool that you’re looking forward to it. It’s nice to have something to be excited for. I guess I’ve just been burned one too many times to give in to the hype again.
I’m not even really talking about this video specifically, just that these type of videos are usually hyping stuff up, getting clicks, and in the end the games are often a letdown.
Epic is trying really hard at making a Roblox-like ecosystem out of Fortnite. They even have a half-stripped-down-but-with-extra-things version of the Unreal Engine (editor) to build games that are a part of this ecosystem.
There’s a significant enough overlap between the Fortnite/Roblox playerbase that Epic thought they could make a decent amount of money by “poaching” the Roblox model and keeping it under their roof.
He talked a lot about his experience and feelings (and that's great!) but I wish he went a bit more into actual mechanics. How "RPG-like" is the game, do choices and builds matter or do you just stack stats and better gear? How is the enemy scaling? What are the build archetypes, if any? Other outlets said the exploration is a bit lacking, so is the settlement building complex enough to carry the game on its own or are we going to have to wait a few years until we get "sim settlements" or something?
It definitely looks like a purchase for me down the line but I still can't tell what kind of demographic is the game actually aimed at, if that makes sense. Is the focus exploration? Basebuilding? Story? Or is it really everything a bit but nothing in specific?
You can make of it what you want, but you have to make the effort. There is a mission for base building, and mission boards for doing cargo, bounties, exploration, etc. The game does start out with the storyline, but it doesn’t force you to stay on the story past a certain point, you are free to go off and do what you want, but it also doesn’t hold your hand, and you have to figure out a lot of mechanics on your own.
It’s a competitive game. You have to be able to recognize features as fast as possible and a vibrant color scheme can help with that. And I just like seeing things without turning max brightness and going in the basement. There is no need to set some mood here with a dark gothic color palette
In a competitive RTS game where there can be multitude of different units in the hundreds you need to be able to tell the difference between. Else its just a messy blob that you attack move into and theres no skill or strategy, just a spray and pray. Visual clarity is extremely important otherwise the game feels bad to play and the competitive scene will die instantly cause no spectator can understand whats going on.
Exactly. Visual clarity is not just for the players, which can get used to anything after thousands of hours of play, but for spectators as well which will not have the same dedication.
I’m going to keep this short. It takes a long time for society to “catch up” Facebook, twitter, the shitshows of algorithmic social media. It’s like watching a snail race but, that doesn’t make it right is what people are saying. When you go to the store and buy an apple they expect that apple to be theres except this is digital purchases and even in the terms it says that it can be modified by the corporation at any moment. Shit it’s been 112 years and climate change was only recognized as a real problem by the public in the last 30 years.
I know it’s like the people who get mad at me when they get hit with my chainsaw and it’s like “look wrong or right I’ve been out here swinging these chainsaws while wearing a blindfold for 24 years you need to get used to it”
Do we need to wake up to that? Or do we need to say that’s bullshit? Which one sounds better? Maybe companies need to wake up to the fact that they shouldn’t be able to do anything they want. Why can’t we wake up to that reality?
Ah fuck it, I know it’s against the meta here but I got it yesterday for 38€ and I actually really like it. Didn’t play the beta, didn’t see any videos beyond the initial trailer years ago and just got it because I like those kind of games.
Oddly it reminds me a lot of Freelancer, you sail, you fight, you trade, you humm to the shanties, you upgrade your gear and ship and sometimes you do all of that together with other players. I don’t care for the hand to hand combat or the land gameplay of Blackflag cause these were actually the things I liked the less, and to be honest I also would not need the land gameplay in Skull and Bones since the real character of the game is your ship.
If you’re fine with that and get it a decent price tag, it’s a really entertaining and fun game. For me after 6 hours of gameplay it would land somewhere between a 7 and an 8 out of 10 I think and I can really see myself playing for a longer time :)
I don’t expect it’d even be worth $20 to me, but I can sort of understand the online appeal. Sometimes having a relatively basic game happen in a shared open world, where people can choose to cooperate, adds some fun moments. The Division and Sea of Thieves would be examples of that. Watch Dogs 2 also had some very good times where you might be driving around, and without any “prompts” or loading, have a chance to join a midcity chase with/against another player.
I am in shock at the number of people upvoting positive comments about this scam project. Until they refund all the people they defrauded to get the project off the ground, they will continue to be dragged down by their own fucking karma.
Suckers want to spend money on it now, knowing everything we know now? That’s on you. But plenty of us didn’t know we were being conned at the time.
I will never let myself live down the stupidity and shame of falling for their bullshit not once, but twice. I’m ~$150 poorer thanks to my impressionable college-brain thinking their “complete in a few years” line back in 2014 was even remotely possible.
It’s sort of how I try to view my past fuckups: I can’t change the past by feeling like an idiot for making some mistake, but I can try to learn to not make the same mistakes again (and instead make new and exciting mistakes) and learn to “forgive myself” in a sense.
Fuckups are inevitable parts of life, and beating myself up over mistakes won’t stop me from making new ones. I do need to learn from them when I make them, so I might as well do it in a way that’s less unpleasant and doesn’t require carrying around an ever-growing pile of memories labeled “I’m an idiot for doing […]”
@Stillhart@SeaOfTranquility even if it comes out its gonna be pay to win garbage. They sold goddamned star destroyers for thousands of dollars, you think those won't have an advantage?
I can't believe there's people who still defend the amount of time and money that's gone into this. It boggles the mind.
Spending more than a basic access package is absolute stupidity and those that do it and regret it have no one to blame but themselves. I spent $45 dollars and play the exact same game and can buy most of those expensive ships with in game money after a few days of playing.
I have had hundreds of hours of great times in Star Citizen. Your anecdotal experience and very emotional hatred for this project because of your own bad financial choices doesn’t make my good experience, the most common experience, untrue. The massive, growing number of active users trumps your loud minoroty’s passionate hatered. Hatered 100% based on hot, salty tears because you wasted your own money on pretend spaceships like a spoiled child, not based on an objective look at things. You were 100% informed about the realities of this project, you just ignored it. I know this because I’ve been following it too and didn’t spend buckets of money on a videogame that isn’t even done yet. Because that would be really irresponsible of me.
This game keeps making money and keeps adding more users. This is because it is fun to play for more people than not. Otherwise they would be failing after this many years. Grow up, get a life, focus on games you like, ignore the ones you don’t like a healthy adult. Don’t spend money on speculative projects if you don’t want the project to change, caveats have been everywhere saying as much since day one. The only person that lied to you was you.
I personally don’t like the game at all. Some mechanics are interesting, but the game being pay to win and “shit on new players all you want, there is no consequences” just makes me never want to start it again. I really thought there would be some semblance of PvE possible, but you’re always in a PvP setting.
That being said though, while I do hate the dev process, and find it disingenuous, it’s not a scam at all.
Not enjoying the game is a fair criticism. It is slow paced and there is no pvp off switch, only things you can do to minimize risk by learning best practices. It’s not for everyone. It’s going for a sci-fi second life vibe, it’s not very gamey. I don’t think everyone expects that. And the prototype criminality system is rather useless right now, you’re right, so you get griefers and undeserved fines here and there. I can still have a lot of fun despite these things, but I can totally see it being not worth everyone’s time, especially for the lesser flushed out jobs. I have had my share of bug induced rage quits.
But yeah, they are making a huge game in good faith, any claim of it being a scam is childish. Any claim that it’s not fun is a valid opinion if they’ve actually tried it.
They know whale hunting is paying for the game, without them it’d be a tiny, indy, space game we’d have all forgotten about by now like they thought they’d make back in the original in Kickstarter. Some people have better stuff than me because they earned it, some just bought it, but it’s more RPG than competitive shooter and the in-game progression is fair so far so it hasn’t been world breaking yet, plus it ads a lot of diversity and multicrew options right out the gates. So it’s not great, but it’s less shady than premium currencies, battle passes, or loot boxes to me.
I prefer that they are spending the money one actually developing advanced/new engine technologies than just releasing a half baked cames and a huge profit.
They got loads more money than they expected and increased the scope to match.
(I agree on the pricy ships though)
Even if they went bust and the game failed, I would be happy if other big studios got the engine.
Before Star Citizen got announced, I tried to get up a project that would’ve been better, bigger, and far more revolutionary… only I didn’t lie about it, so funding fell on blank stares at best, and a bunch of insults at worst.
Congrats, you voted with your wallet to get conned, so you got what you voted for. Same with No Man’s Sky.
The average citizen has no vision or perception of the costs involved, so you either con people, or nothing gets done.
Are you a well-known developer though? One of the reasons why Starfield attracted so much attention was the name Chris Roberts attached to it. As flawed as his legacy is, he’s a household name in the industry. Are you? What was your project about? How big was your team?
Precisely, you just described what’s needed to pull a con. My project was just an engine capable of running a real-scale galaxy with consistent time travel, we had no great concept artists capable of churning out eye candy marketing material. Should have made it a solo project about digging mines, or something.
I loved Alien Swarm, although it’s like just one episode from a big game. It’s disheartening it’s still like that. This game has a potential, especially for coop gaming. Just no content to flesh it out.
I remember playing the shit out of Alien Swarm back when it came out over a decade ago. It showed a ton of promise. It’s a shame they haven’t really fleshed it out since then.
Alien Shooter and Zombie Shooter series are direct inspirations to this Valve’s experiment. Idk if they are good on your platform or if they are meant to play together with others, but I liked some of these older entries playing solo. Maybe you’d like them too.
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