I know they are probably bombarded with requests for comments and interviews, but CDPR have learnt nothing from CP2077.
they are going to over-sell this again, promising things that don’t materialize because they are dreaming of the thing now when it’s still 3-4 years away, then people are going to be disappointed when it releases and doesn’t have all the things they talk about.
Obviously consumers haven’t learnt anything either, we eat this up, but CDPR is going to get the fallout from it.
Obviously consumers haven’t learnt anything either, we eat this up, but CDPR is going to get the fallout from it.
I waited for almost 3 years of patches and a deep discount and I’m still somewhat disappointed, it’s just three shitty ubisoft sandboxs stacked in a next gen suit.
I’m talking specifically of the over-promising and under-delivering on game design. not the technical issues which is a whole separate problem that may or may not be solved by UE5
Now if only CDPR would eliminate their crunch work environment, and release games when the DEVS say it’s ready.
If you can’t afford advertising the game prior to launch, just don’t. That’s where for example Bethesda saved a ton of money. Released “complete” games within 1-3 months of the first announcement. (Do mind I’ve lost all hope in Bethesda)
In other hand, over-promising in terms of what’s actually currently out is fine. The issue is when you …
Don’t have the devtime. (Board releasing the game way before it’s ready, because marketing is so damn expensive, and the stockholders want it now not later)
Don’t have the skill. (Which means re-training all your employees constantly)
Don’t have the work morale. (Which leads to talent bleed, further exaggerating point 2.)
Additionally, this isn’t new IP like Cybeypunk was, you’re not designing in-game systems from the ground up or hashing out the gameplay loop…you’re just improving on an already existing formula that is well received. The main challenge is the new engine, but as you’ve said they will also get a lot of problems solved with UE too. I think it’ll be fine in the end.
Yeah, the money they are putting in hyping the game would be better spent on development. Don’t talk about it to people who aren’t involved in making it, just do it. I much prefer the steam early access method where it you think you have a good idea, you release it early on for a cheaper price. Then you see how it does and receive player feedback and iterate from there.
Too much hype can make a game seem worse by raising expectations too high.
I played CP2077 only recently after 2.01 patch and it’s kind of ok as an ubisoft sandbox. There’s something like 40 hours of well made content that’s on rails and a lot of really generic filler missions. I’m kind of disappointed and not because I expect voiced exposition and writing from such filler, but I did expect gameplay that was tuned to be challenging and it’s not. Seriously, Watch Dogs 2 (which is actually ubisoft) had better designed and balanced side missions. Here it’s just have these 5 dudes standing on a corner, you can kill them by hacking their shit without them ever seeing you or getting a chance to react. It’s a nice world that’s an average game garnished with a lot of Potemkin content.
I feel like cyberpunk was a great game, even on release. The story and gameplay were great, it just had performance issues for some PCs and it shouldn’t have been released on consoles at the time.
That said, CDPR marketing team needs to learn to temper expectations
I got it at release as well and I could not disagree more. It was buggy, broken, and incomplete. I watched police NPCs spawn in from the sky, my game softlocked when a story essential npc fell through the world. These were commonly observed issues, among a litany of other ones. You gotta have some serious rose tinted glasses to think it was an acceptable product on release.
Imo Gameplay and story were like a 2.5/5, went back for PL and it might be a 3. Gameplay is serviceable at best. Story was lifted from an GITS:SAC episode which is about the most praise I have for the game aside from the art department. The 3D assets in 2077 are inarguably beautiful.
I know survivor bias or w/e but literally no one I know irl who played it 10+ had those issues unless they were on console.
I played it for over a hundred hours immediately after release and only saw a few minor bugs like audio/lip animations not matching for some scenes. I don’t know how all my friends/coworkers were so lucky when all you see on the internet is “worst game ever, doesn’t work at all on release” comments
Same! Pre-ordered and played hundreds of hours. It should’ve been released 6 months later but most of the bugs weren’t game-breaking. If an NPC had their arms stretched out to the side or whatever, I’d just have a laugh and move on. I’ve had to reload a save to get a side quest to trigger twice. I don’t think it’s even ever crashed on me though.
It’s just become blindly accepted that it is/was unplayable. I remember seeing so many articles months, even a year, after its release just confused about how so many people could be playing this unplayable game. Yet it’s always been consistently in Steam’s top 25 games for active players. It’s a weird disconnect.
Bugs and performance aside it was still a mess with very little to make it an lifelike and interesting place. The combat was unbalanced as hell, with only a few things being viable and the most effective classes in combat could be multi-specc’d. Sure why not have a hacker that can slow mo and use melee while also being proficient with guns? No way that could break the game balance.
Literally just overhauling the police system doubled the interactivity of the game by allowing you to actually engage with the crime&justice system beyond getting instantly killed by MaxTac because they can spawn three stories up and four blocks from where you just killed someone with a silenced sniper rifle.
I’ve a day one buyer and I wouldn’t even consider the game worth full price until 2.0. I’d say it was maybe worth 30-40 with 1.6 because most of the egregious bugs had been removed.
I feel like I’m in the minority here, but imo CP2077 is a much more fun game than the Witcher 3. I couldn’t get more than a few hours into TW3 without getting bored, which was never a problem with CP2077.
It was actually one of the major reasons I didn’t initially buy CP2077, as I very much disliked the gameplay of TW3
Tiny boat we’re in. I started with the witcher 2 right after having played dragon’s dogma and couldn’t handle the extremely clunky combat. My friends assured me 3 was a huge step forward and I was harassed to play the whole game on stream, and I did. Honestly, not that big of a step, the world felt starkly dead compared to other open world fare, the combat was years behind games that came out at the same time, and the story and setting did not feel very unique to me at all.
I felt the same way about a lot of the heavier dialogue that people did at large about Forspoken. Plot felt like it was on stilts, barely hitting the points it needed to to keep my interest. Not that it was out of context bits like Forspoken, but the dialogue felt out of touch with the setting really frequently. Poor selection of magic despite what was shown to you in-setting. Build balancing like an mmo where nothing you craft or otherwise come into owning early on actually mattered at all. 15 more armor was not changing the number of hits you could take in a fight it all.
TW 3 wasn’t super inventive or even really fun compared to other games that launched when it did or even before, and I don’t understand the extreme hype for it when everyone I talk to says the first two games are so wildly different and worth skipping, which has been my experience. If it’s not about the characters’ story arcs across all 3 games, what the hell is it that makes people enjoy it so much? I’ve looked hard, I’ve played hard, and I just never found it.
Personally I spent over a hundred hours in TW3 and finished all the DLC whereas I couldn’t get past the first few intro missions to CP2077. Gave it up in under 20 hours or so. Can’t even remember why the game just never stuck out as special in any way to me.
Same here. I love Cyberpunk, but I just can’t get into Witcher 3 after attempting it a few times. It’s boring, the combat is shitty and I’m just not interested enough in the lore to deal with it. Not that the combat in Cyberpunk is great either. I guess I’m just more interested in that world.
I get that it was delivered with bugs and server issues. I get that it wasn’t what was promised to the players. But being toxic to the devs? Fucking get a grip. You don’t like it? Get a refund. And probably don’t preorder in the future.
I’m so happy so see this upvoted here. On Reddit people say toxicity is justified if developers do “stupid shit”. Or they say the toxicity is their own fault for making a mess, it should be expected, etc. Glad to be gone there
One would think the gaming industry and consumers learned from the last 35 mistakes where big AAA titles had a dumpster fire launch because it was unfinished, unoptimized or over promised but no. This is gaming now.
Still attacking the devs and borderline creating a witch hunt is a bit too much. Just vote with your wallet. Or if you bought it refund it ffs.
I blame everyone who pre-orders as well. You are part of the problem!
This was a Kickstarter Project where a lot of people backed
For years the devs didn’t give a lot of information to the backers
There was a class action lawsuit for scamming against the developers because they just took the money and didn’t do anything with it
Now they published something so they can say “here we did something with all of the money” yet it’s obvious that what they developed did not take years.
It’s pretty obvious that they only published the game in the current state because of the lawsuit. The game is a total scam and they deserve the hate from the people that invested a lot of money when backing. Backing on Kickstarter has something to do with trust. Of course, the project may never be finished and that’s okay. But it’s obvious here, that they just took the money and did not use it for the game.
This has nothing directly to do with The Day Before, but: Backing a Kickstarter is something completely different and that has to come into peoples heads. Preorders are for a mostly finished product that will 100% ship. The devs have enough funding from investors and publishers, the game will be released no matter how little preorders they will get. Crowdfunding however is for an idea in its infancy that might never be finished. Crowdfunding is an investment.
But where is the difference in this case, The Day Before? Well, easy: When you invest in a kickstarter, the company has to use the money you invested to actually develop the game. They can’t buy fancy cars with the money, they need to put it to good use. If the company uses the money for their own personal benefit, they can be sued for that. For preorders thats not the case.
I mean it isn't but sort of is at the same time. It firstly depends on what kind of kickstarter it is. There are many ways where its just a system for a publisher to gauge interest in the project. Those are typically just preorders however many others are just throwing money into a well and hoping something comes of it. I get people's hatred of crowdfunding and it can easily be a trap. Where a ton of people are just there to get the money and leg it or who are simply too incompetent to use the funds properly. Hell even experienced developer can be too incompetent, double fine studios/Tim Schafer is a poster child for this. While I love their work, they had a horrid run with crowdfunding and I guess it should have been expected since they are always late and overspend on their budget when they were working with publishers.
Now with all the negatives said, I think crowdfunding in all its forms can lead to wonderful project that simply couldn't have existed due to a lack of interest by publishers. Hell I doubt we would had Baldur's Gate 3 without crowdfunding and this isn't talking exclusively about BG 3 since the Divinity Original sin games really got the ball rolling for Larian Studios. Crowdfunding can lead to the rebirth of genres once thought dead.
That is important because in some jurisdictions “preorder” has legal implications and importantly, obligations for the seller. A kickstarter does not. Not yet at least, over in Germany there’s a discussion about whether crowdfunding is just a form of taking preorders (in the legal sense), which would grant customers the same legal protections then.
Kickstarter is a separate kind of the same problem: Greedy fucks leveraging systems against us. Any time money is exchanged, there WILL be shitheads trying to get some for nothing.
It becomes a problem when the systems at hand reinforce those shysters. Kickstarter is rife with scams, and capitalism in general is rife with lazy greedy fucks. The problem is, they don’t get punished for being lazy greedy fucks.
They have to rip off and harm a bunch of people before anyone will do a damn thing, and even then… If it’s a rich person or corp, the government might just shrug and say it’d be too expensive to enforce the laws…
There is a BIG problem, and it’s not the consumers.
It was the most wishlisted game on Steam, people are actively ignoring all the red flags and blindly throwing their money at anyone who can produce a half decent video online.
I’m not protecting the devs, the whole story is a huge scam and they straight up lied but again:
Stop pre-ordering, paying on kickstarter or buying stuff in early access unless you are absolutely sure you know who gets your money and what you are getting in exchange.
Yes the devs are scum, but does it really justify the cyber witch hunt? A lot of people just hopped on the hype bandwagon and jumped over the hate bandwagon without even knowing the details.
Just fucking refund or sue the bastards. I will only repeat myself: consumers are part of the problem. Stop buying incomplete buggy shit based on promises and pre-order bonuses.
Watch reviews, performance tests before buying. Everything is fucking digital, they will not run out of keys if you wait an extra day.
No meaningless dev of a meaningless video game is ever worth a witch hunt. As a consumer, you have better things to do with your time. Like in this case, digging around in your nose, watching paint dry, or pouring another coffee. All quality uses of time that aren’t the waste that is getting angry at these devs.
I’m really confused about this. I only ever heard about this as ane extraction shooter. But I also only found some tiktok clips didn’t follow it in advance or anything
Isn’t that what sca- uhh, I mean super legit game devs normally do? Suddenly the scope was neeeever that big! You just think you remember all’ those claims that are still visible! No one actually said things you can prove they did!
I feel like this has happened numerous times already and somehow it surprises people every time. Like, there are channels on YouTube that only cover this sort of thing and have days of content.
Like CDPR changing Cyberpunk from RPG to Action-adventure. At least the game didn't release at that point though, but still. I mean Destiny even gets called an MMO when it isn't. Genre is kind of misused a lot, people just need to stop buying or getting invested in games that haven't even released.
I saw that announcement video when it first came out and was super hyped for The Division. I didn’t end up playing it until around 2019 and I was really impressed with how close to the trailer the actual gameplay was. I know it had some controversy, but I guess I’m easy to impress lol
Ah, that’s fair. I’m a pretty casual player and didn’t really go deep beyond the medium skill levels, so I didn’t really appreciate the cut-corners beyond that. I hardly even played much multiplayer TBH, I played and loved the single-player campaigns, which is what I tend to do on most games :D
No, you are saying that you are entitled to an developers code if they leave a project just because they let you test it. You are acting/being entitled as fuck.
Engywuck ( @Engywuck ) True… It amazes me when people become so entitled online, especially in the FOSS community. It looks like they think devs owe them something.
jarfil ( @jarfil ) They got free testing for the promise of releasing the source, then failed to fulfill that promise, so… yeah, they do owe those people something.
You are saying that getting people to do work for you by promising them something in return, means nothing, that you can break that promise whenever you want.
No, I’m a foss dev, and I speak for all of us when I ask you to please not join any of our communities.
Also I’m calling you out. You need to put up or shut up evidence of where that developer said that he would release his code as open source. And that he would do it in return for you testing it.
The promise I’m referring to, is to “release the code”.
(long version)I understand the thought process of people not wanting to show how messy their pre-production code is… but that’s why, following semver rules, you mark it as a version “0.x.y”. It’s not an exam, it’s nothing to be ashamed of, anyone who’s written code knows that’s how things work, and it’s on the community to be understanding of this, so the “initial dev” of an open source project should feel confident in releasing a tangled mess, no less no more.
Promising the code, then disappearing without giving a community that’s invested in the project a chance to take over, is what I find fishy.
I’ve nothing to say more on topic. Off topic, people may be quite different and even if objectively there should be nothing bad in releasing pre-production, they may find it sensitive + there might be someone to actively offend for that. I only encountered the former, luckily
So I just ran across this, after leaving a comment in that same thread. Posting it again here to try and add some sanity back to this discussion:
Okay, but there’s a line here somewhere. Pushing for new features and complaining in the issue tracker that a bug hasn’t been fixed soon enough is absolutely entitlement. Expecting someone to follow through on their word and release the source code is another thing entirely. Especially if they make the decision to stop working on it.
Go check out this EoL statement from the developer of Nomie. He open-sourced the code without even being asked too.
As far as I know the developer never actually said he would release the source. That is purely hearsay from @jarfil. He seems to think that if an app or program is free then it also must follow that it’s open source.
@Scary_le_Poo and @jarfil: if the two of you have a disagreement on another thread, please work it out between the two of you like adults there; don’t spill it over into other, unrelated threads.
@Scary_le_Poo, these types of personal attacks are not acceptable on beehaw. It is possible to disagree while still being kind and without resorting to angry or abusive language. Please try to remember beehaw’s guiding principal when interacting with others in the future.
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