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Novamdomum, do games w Nintendo's lawsuit against Palworld isn't just bad for the industry, it's bad for Nintendo
@Novamdomum@fedia.io avatar

I think the thing that's the most confusing about this is why did they wait??

"The timing is particularly baffling: Nintendo did not strike when the iron was hot and everyone was talking about Palworld and Pokémon, and at this late date, why bother? The greatest heights of Palworld's success were clearly driven by the memetic catchiness of its Pokémon parody, now it's just another survival crafting game with a stable enough core community⁠—see also Valheim or Sons of the Forest. Palword has faded into the background, a brief curiosity overshadowed by 2024's far more enduring megahit, Helldivers 2. Just in time for everyone to have largely forgotten about Palworld and moved on, Nintendo has swooped in to announce: "In case you've forgotten, they're the little guy, and we are huge, awful bullies."

Palworld has reportedly made nearly $500 million now (source - Simon Carless). Even if Nintendo win in some way won't it cost them so much more to take Pocket Pair down now?

ColeSloth,

To maximize profits and costs they can go after, and to be a bit less on the radar of the public eye. Now that palworld is essentially done making money, Nintendo can go after that amount.

Say it is the throwing spheres that Nintendo is basing the suit off of. If Nintendo tried suing in the midst of its popularity, palworld could have just switched the capture system to like a special gun or cubes or something. Nintendo wanted to wait in order to financially crush them into dust.

burgersc12,
@burgersc12@mander.xyz avatar

They waited until they could file a few new patents, namely the catching and mounting mechanisms. Now they have a bit more legal standing it seems, although I’m not sure how this is all gonna shake out

pennomi,

Patents filed after your rival releases a product don’t work - it’s textbook prior art.

burgersc12, (edited )
@burgersc12@mander.xyz avatar

Not sure how it works in Japan but you’re probably right. Edit: Was thinking about this article that lays out the known details pretty well

CheeseNoodle,

I remember reading that Japan is very weird in regards to patent law, there’s almost no oversight whatsoever even for incredibly basic concepts like a title screen but there’s kind of a general agreement not to sue eachother. Assuming thats true Nintendo is currently burning a lot of face right now by breaking that precident.

Killer,

They aren’t “new” patents. They’re divisional patents, essentially splitting an older patent into two different patents that retain the date of the parent patent.

Either way this is a pretty scummy move on Nintendo’s part.

CaptPretentious, (edited )

I’m going to patent the crap out of everything.

Like if you push a button in the direction your character is facing you move in that direction. I’m going to patent that shit.

Then I’m going to patent that if you push button and the opposite direction of your character, if it’s a 3D game you turn around. And then I have ab separate patent with having the character walk backwards.

I’ll just take the absolute piss out of the most basic things and absolutely everything I can find. And then throw a bunch of frivolous patent lawsuits at Nintendo.

I know it’s petty. But maybe Nintendo, like many other corporations in the gaming industry, have just been around maybe a little too long and have lost the vision and the purpose. Cuz at this point Nintendo’s not even trying. But they are heavily relying on nostalgia for sales. They’re more known for being a litigious company than a gaming company.

Carighan, do games w Nintendo's lawsuit against Palworld isn't just bad for the industry, it's bad for Nintendo
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

I love how this continues to crank out articles with 0 information and everyone speculating what it might be about.

Don’t get me wrong, Nintendo are dickheads, but you can clearly see how everyone greedily clicks on these articles considering how often they get rehashed.

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

I am just curious, do you have a take on how Nintendo’s lawsuit could be legitimate? Even a high-level theory, surely if you are so concerned about speculation and “greedy clickbait”, you have some logical ideas to back this up?

slazer2au,

There is not enough information to have a take on it. That is his point.

The total amount of information out is:

  1. A filing has been made.
  2. They are claiming patent infringement.

That is literally it.

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

I would argue we do have enough information to have a take on it. What legitimate patent infringement case do you see in context of Palworld and Nintendo’s products? Be clear and specific.

If you’re going to call for a ban on commentary, you need to have some of argument.

From my perspective, it is crazy to defend some random corporation in this way when you can’t even come up with a basic explanation of why critical commentary is not justified at this stage.

slazer2au,

What legitimate patent infringement case do you see in context of Palworld and Nintendo’s products? Be clear and specific.

Without going through all of their patent filings no one can. So again, that is the point. Lack of info

If you’re going to call for a ban on commentary, you need to have some of argument.

Never said a ban on commentary, just hate bullshit articles.

From my perspective, it is crazy to defend some random corporation

Something I agree with you on. Let them fight. This discussion is in the context of bullshit articles with zero information.

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

Without going through all of their patent filings no one can. So again, that is the point. Lack of info

We are both gamers (I am assuming this is true for you since you’re commenting here). I am not talking about legal understanding of Japanese patent law. Just a practical evaluation of Palworld vis-a-vis Nintendo products. What genuine technical innovation (I am not talking about bullshit patents for stuff that was implemented many decades ago) do you see in Nintendo’s products that was copied by Palworld?

This is not difficult.

Never said a ban on commentary, just hate bullshit articles.

The implication of thread OP was that articles critical of Nintendo (in the context of this case) should not be published as of today, no? Why is any commentary immediately categorized as “greedy clickbait” or “rehashed content”?

Something I agree with you on. Let them fight. This discussion is in the context of bullshit articles with zero information.

I would argue it’s not a bullshit article as I have yet to hear a single example of what legitimate (in the real sense, not related to Japanese patent law) case Nintendo has. What is this magical innovation that we see in Nintendo products that was copied by Palworld?

missingno,
@missingno@fedia.io avatar

I am not talking about legal understanding of Japanese patent law.

But that's what the case is about.

I would argue it's not a bullshit article as I have yet to hear a single example of what legitimate (in the real sense, not related to Japanese patent law) case Nintendo has.

Well then the fact that we still don't know what the case is really about is exactly why these articles are useless. No information in there.

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

What is your argument here? Your support the Japanese patent law irrespective of whether it reflects reality? You would be OK with Japanese patent that is de facto non-valid (i.e. the approach was already used in games 10+ years ago) just to support a random company?

I am going off memory, but one example would be one of the Japanese gaming companies patenting cross-game saves (release to sequel); an approach that was implemented by the Ultima games 10+ years before the patent was filled? Do you support this?

We have access to Palworld, we have access to Nintendo products. If commentary criticizing Nintendo is “greedy clickbait”, then what innovation has been abused by Palworld? Can you provide an example in context of gaming experiences?

Butterpaderp,

They just think the article sucks, which it does lmao

It’s not that deep, dude

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

Sure, I mean this is a forum discussion (in a relatively underground platform no less).

I don’t see what this has to do with what I am talking about. If the article sucks, what is this innovation in Nintendo’s products/services that was copied by Palworld? This is a very simple and straightforward question, no?

What’s wrong or “too deep” about a question like that?

missingno,
@missingno@fedia.io avatar

Let's go back to the start of this comment thread:

I love how this continues to crank out articles with 0 information and everyone speculating what it might be about.

Don't get me wrong, Nintendo are dickheads, but you can clearly see how everyone greedily clicks on these articles considering how often they get rehashed.

That's the argument: these articles add nothing to the discussion. And you responding to that with "but can you prove Nintendo is right?" isn't the point and also isn't adding anything to the discussion.

GBU_28,

Lol it’s not a ban, it’s a comment that suggests these articles are of poor quality

pyrflie,

deleted_by_author

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  • halcyoncmdr,
    @halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

    Except this isn’t a copyright case. They’re claiming patent infringement.

    pyrflie,

    deleted_by_author

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  • halcyoncmdr,
    @halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

    Not disagreeing, just pointing out it’s not a traditional copyright claim like so many others we see.

    Stovetop,

    Hard to know if the patent is expired when they haven’t even officially announced which ones they plan to bring forward in the suit.

    The only info I was aware of so far is that there were multiple claims they were making.

    Chozo,
    @Chozo@fedia.io avatar

    What patent are you referring to?

    MrNesser,

    So nintendo and palworld are based in Japan which has no fair use on copyright.

    If this became a copyright case in Japan and palworld won it could change the law on copyright fair use in, which Nintendo and other corps don’t want as it would open up new games based on their products under fair use.

    The only way Nintendo can attack palworld is via patent infringement.

    ben_dover,

    If this became a copyright case in Japan and palworld won it could change the law on copyright fair use

    not every country has case law. most of Europe is eg using “code law”, which means a precedent doesn’t change the law, but only applies to the one specific case with all its specific context and circumstances taken into account. under slightly different circumstances, a judge may rule differently

    Ashtear,

    Yes, there are going to be opinion pieces like this one filling the space for a major news story like this one, but there’s still room for proper journalism right now. I recommend folks check out PC Gamer’s interview with an IP attorney that worked in Tokyo (which was also the second link in this posted article).

    Software patents are a thorny topic, and it’s worthwhile for enthusiasts of the industry or those interested in IP law to read up on the concept in general. There’s risk for Nintendo here, and I found Sigmon’s offhand comment about how Nintendo’s ramped up legal hiring to be particularly interesting.

    GBU_28,

    Even with more info these articles just devolve into

    Mario man bad but we all still love Mario? New Zelda in the spring be sure to line up now.

    BmeBenji, do gaming w The Day Before studio returns from the dead and asks for a 'second chance': 'From now on, our development and marketing will be based on the principle of honesty'

    From now on

    Just like they said yesterday!

    NigelFrobisher, do gaming w The Day Before studio returns from the dead and asks for a 'second chance': 'From now on, our development and marketing will be based on the principle of honesty'

    “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me, you can’t get fooled again.”

    JudahBenHur,

    classic

    DebatableRaccoon, do gaming w The Day Before studio returns from the dead and asks for a 'second chance': 'From now on, our development and marketing will be based on the principle of honesty'
    Kolanaki, do gaming w The Doom mod that turns Margaret Thatcher into an undead cyberdemon has been removed by Bethesda yet again, this time for 'disobeying a ZeniMax employee'
    !deleted6508 avatar

    Can you only use the in-game mod browser or something? Put the mod up somewhere else that Bethesda doesn’t control. It’s not like it’s hard to modify DOOM manually by dropping the files in the folder.

    Additionally, extend the mod to include the CEO of ZeniMax as a Baron of Hell or Revenant.

    Elkenders,

    It is, it’s the end of the article.

    princessnorah,
    @princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I believe the place it was banned, was on consoles.

    garretble, (edited ) do games w Ubisoft comes crawlin' back to Steam
    @garretble@lemmy.world avatar

    “Gabe was quoted as saying, ‘Yesss, another yacht for me!’”

    Edit: Oh sorry, when he’s our billionaire he’s cool, right?

    PlasticExistence,

    Uh, excuse me, but Gabe buys submarines thankyouverymuch

    Kecessa,
    tee9000,

    Your name contains the name gabe.

    Who is bending to corporate interests NOW??

    Kecessa,

    Preach brother, fuck all billionaires!

    drunkpostdisaster,

    As far as billionaires go it could be worse.

    garretble,
    @garretble@lemmy.world avatar

    For sure.

    But the nerds around here put him on a GIIIANT pedestal.

    It’s OK to make fun of Gabe, guys, he doesn’t care about you as he tries to figure out which of his six or seven yachts to ride around on this weekend.

    baatliwala,

    Sounds like you care about the nerds more than they care about him? No one even mentioned him in this thread so what are you wafflin on about?

    tee9000,

    To be impartial, he has a fishing yacht, hospital yacht, research yacht. Seems like these are probably floating businesses? Anyone know in what capacity he uses them?

    Does bezos lease out his yacht to customers to help pay for itself or are these literally just sitting and being maintained for personal use? I guess i dont really know much about yachts.

    rdri,

    Steam getting better isn’t linked to anyone becoming a billionaire. That sentiment sounds like people can’t stop looking for things to blame Valve for.

    Is it too difficult to accept that every single company failed in competing with Steam? I’d say they didn’t even try their best (especially Epic). Must’ve assumed that just serving a website with a web app is all they needed to get as rich as Gabe.

    SouravSatvaya, do games w Ubisoft comes crawlin' back to Steam
    @SouravSatvaya@lemmy.world avatar

    Doesn’t matter if the game is on Steam or on Epic if it’s a shit game.

    SaltySalamander,

    Ubi actually makes some great games. Give Anno 1800 a shot.

    drunkpostdisaster,

    Well, I bought FC5 for 10. It was still a rip off, but put that shit on sale and make something back.

    Funwayguy, do games w Ubisoft comes crawlin' back to Steam
    @Funwayguy@lemmy.world avatar

    As much as I agree the 30% cut can be a bit steep, I do appreciate that part of it is going into ongoing R&D like Steam Deck and Proton benefiting the whole gaming industry. I’d like to think of it like Valve are investing into PC innovation similarly to the way Playstation, Xbox and Nintendo do for their new consoles.

    CEbbinghaus,
    @CEbbinghaus@lemmy.world avatar

    But unlike valve the console R&D is limited to the consoles themselves. Valve is working to improve gaming for Linux in general and foster a more open and consumer friendly console system.

    stupidcasey,

    If you have to choose an evil monopoly hell bent on world domination and bloodshed you might as well choose steam at least they are owned by a private individual instead of a hive mind distilled from the pure greed of capitalism.

    Kecessa, (edited )

    A big part is going to buying yachts as well so Valve and Newell could 100% afford to charge a lot less than 30% and still do just as much r&d

    To the downvoters: I hurt your feelings by saying that multibillionaire bad? :( Their money comes from your pockets, wake the fuck up.

    luxurylaunches.com/…/gabe-newell-luxury-yachts.ph…

    Chozo, (edited )
    @Chozo@fedia.io avatar

    Lemmy loves to shit on billionaires, until it's one they think they like.

    Kellamity,

    I don’t know why you’re being down voted, he is literally a billionaire

    ‘No ethical billionaires’ apart from this guy apparently

    Kecessa,

    I’ve had this conversation so many times and some people just can’t imagine that they might be paying more than they need to just so Gabe can collect yachts… People feel they’re getting their money’s worth because everything they’ve ever bought is priced based on the fact that there’s multimillionaires and billionaires higher up the chain…

    PieMePlenty,

    AFAIK it falls to a lower percentage if you sell more copies. As to why I dont mind the fee as a consumer; valve invests its earnings into linux gaming and does cool shit like that. I can’t remember the last time i aplauded ea or ubisoft or epic for doing something like that. Oh yeah… it was never. Id sooner applaud Microsoft for investing into a non lucrative venture like accessible gaming accessories. But they aren’t on the same playing field… so from them, I’d expect it.

    If i were a developer, I’d let valve eat the 30%. The amount of customers they bring to the table, deal with chargebacks, host the files. That shit isn’t free. Epic has to take such a low amount because they don’t have as many users and can’t produce such sales numbers and don’t have to deal with as many chargebcks and don’t have to waste as much bandwidth hosting the files.

    Kecessa,

    Again, they can afford their R&D while paying their employees more than the industry average and while making the owner a multibillionaire, they 100% could afford to lower their cut without any negative impact on everyone but Gabe Newell.

    The lower % starts if a game sells enough copies to make 10m$, Valve has made 3m$ at that point.

    Stop defending the people that make you poorer, they’re not your friends, all billionaires exist at the expense of our wealth. All. Of. Them. Are. Evil.

    PieMePlenty,

    Well I guess I’ll just stop buying things then because all Im doing is contributing to some billionaire’s cocaine fund. This is capitalism. I learned to live with it. When the time comes to sieze the means of production and give power back to the proletariat, I’ll be there to help. Until then, I’d rather give Gabe my money so he can shove more ships up his ass than give it to Sweeney because at least Gabe will throw a penny back into linux gaming. Ill take the crumbs if I can get them because Im not a 21 year old student with a burning desire to change the system anymore.

    Kecessa,

    There’s a difference between dealing with it and defending it, you’re doing the latter by saying 30% is ok because reasons.

    PieMePlenty,

    And those “reasons” were plentiful. Most importantly is their market share. From a purely business perspective, if a distributor has 200% more users and charges 100% more while offering the same features, they will be the better choice - purely from en economical perspective. 30% is ok because you will reach a larger audience and if so many publishers disagreed with Steam’s cut, they wouldnt all come crawlin’ back would they? In other words, the market dictates the price and the market has decided that price is 30%. It doesnt matter who does or doesnt defend it. Thats what it is.

    Kecessa,

    As to why I dont mind the fee as a consumer; valve invests its earnings into linux gaming and does cool shit like that.

    You’re also talking like they wouldn’t have as many customers if they reduced their cut which is completely ridiculous. More profit would go to the people actually doing the work or prices would go down.

    Stop defending the billionaire, you’re making a fool of yourself.

    EndOfLine, do games w Ubisoft comes crawlin' back to Steam

    Until I hear that they have dumped the requirement to log into Ubisoft Connect or Uplay or whatever they are calling it noe, then Ubisoft will remain dead to me.

    Makes me sad. I really enjoyed the Assassin’s Creed series and have waited for Shadows for what feels like a decade now.

    Z3k3, (edited )

    That plus resigning the same game every few months

    Fucking auto correct

    Resigning should be releasing.

    Apologies alll

    Zahille7,
    trashgirlfriend,

    I think they meant to say reselling?

    Z3k3,

    I was really confused by your responce thinking it was meant for someone else toll I reread my comment. I’m referring to the “ubisoft game” that we all know and are bored of

    stupidcasey,

    Considering the president that rocket league set, I would agree.

    essteeyou,

    Precedent.

    cmrn,

    Every time I go to play an old Ubisoft game I get to some stage in launching where I remember “oh right this is why I stopped bothering to play”

    AngryPancake,

    Especially painful on steam deck. If you get it working, it adds a good minute to the launch time

    dillekant, do gaming w The Doom mod that turns Margaret Thatcher into an undead cyberdemon has been removed by Bethesda yet again, this time for 'disobeying a ZeniMax employee'

    Yet another reason PC is superior.

    jherazob, do gaming w The Doom mod that turns Margaret Thatcher into an undead cyberdemon has been removed by Bethesda yet again, this time for 'disobeying a ZeniMax employee'
    @jherazob@beehaw.org avatar

    There should be a crowdfunding to project a giant looping video of this mod in front of their offices for a year

    shnizmuffin, do gaming w The Doom mod that turns Margaret Thatcher into an undead cyberdemon has been removed by Bethesda yet again, this time for 'disobeying a ZeniMax employee'
    @shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol avatar
    smeg,

    Faced with the return of one of humanity’s greatest threats, you have no choice but to head to THE TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL:

    🇬🇧 THE UNITED KINGDOM OF 🇬🇧 GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND

    I think we should put this on the tourist brochures

    kindenough,

    About that tourism...

    On the other hand we Dutch run ads in the THE TENTH CIRCLE OF HELL, begging the Doom spawn coming for some nice debauchery, not to visit Amsterdam. True story.

    leraje,
    @leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    We do tell people. For example, when you get off the train at Reading station it clearly says “Welcome to Reading”.

    TransplantedSconie, do gaming w The Doom mod that turns Margaret Thatcher into an undead cyberdemon has been removed by Bethesda yet again, this time for 'disobeying a ZeniMax employee'
    MindTraveller,

    You left your SI in the link

    scottmeme, do games w Ubisoft comes crawlin' back to Steam
    @scottmeme@sh.itjust.works avatar

    When you make a trash launcher, people tend to ignore it. Who knew?

    Kecessa,

    You could create the best launcher in the world and people would ignore it because they don’t want multiple launchers and their library is already centralized on Steam.

    conciselyverbose,

    Maybe.

    But until there’s an alternative that isn’t outright disrespectful with how complete and utter dogshit it is it’s hard to say that for sure.

    Inertia matters. But so does the fact that no one has bothered putting the work in to not be a trainwreck.

    scottmeme,
    @scottmeme@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I’m starting to build up my GOG library quite a bit, and that launcher in its current state is still better than Ubisoft Connect.

    datavoid,

    I feel like both ubi and gog launchers are basically unusable. I have no idea why gog doesn’t fix their shit

    JustMarkov,

    For GOG just use Heroic.

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