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callouscomic, do games w Ubisoft Says That XDefiant Has Fallen Behind Expectations

It’s okay Ubisoft. YOU fell behind our expectations a looooooooong time ago.

Rentlar, do games w Ubisoft Says That XDefiant Has Fallen Behind Expectations

Not even enticing people with “free premium currency” just for logging in could entice me to play an Ubisoft shooter.

garretble, do games w Ubisoft Says That XDefiant Has Fallen Behind Expectations
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

The market is so saturated with these type of shooters — especially ones with generic army dudes.

I’m not really surprised.

ichbinjasokreativ, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles
  1. fire all DEI consultants
  2. get rid of woke writers
  3. stop making everything live service
  4. give devs more time to optimize
  5. don’t overmonetize your games

literally all they need to do. If you make games that people actually want to play, then people will buy them. And if you want to have lgbtq characters, then do it like borderlands 2, that game got it right in 2012.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Why would firing DEI consultants improve the work?

And if you want to have lgbtq characters, then do it like borderlands 2, that game got it right in 2012.

In what particular way do they differ?

ichbinjasokreativ,

Because things like black protagonists with hip-hop music in the background make no sense in a feudal japanese setting and people are sick of games being abused as vehicles for morality preaching.

An example from borderlanfs two could be Sir Hammerlock, who was introduced as a normal (for borderlands) character early on and later in a side quest was revealed to be gay in passing. That’s the kind of ‘representation’ you want for lgbtq to be “normalized”. In modern games, his story would be one of struggle against straight white oppressors at the end of which there would be a five minute long cutscene in which everybody turns to the camera and informs the player that being gay is normal and that prejudice is bad and that straight white people are inherently evil. I’m overexagerating (spelling?) of course, but you get the point.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Because things like black protagonists with hip-hop music in the background make no sense in a feudal japanese setting and people are sick of games being abused as vehicles for morality preaching.

But games about dudes in medieval-looking sci-fo power armor stomping around WW1-styled soldiers do?

And that doesn’t preach any morals? But a black guy in a samurai setting does? How come one does, but the other does not?

Also…

An example from borderlanfs two could be Sir Hammerlock, who was introduced as a normal (for borderlands) character early on and later in a side quest was revealed to be gay in passing.

Maybe don’t make it as readily apparent how much you internalized gayness being abnormal. Telling. You wouldn’t write sentences like this if that wasn’t a normal thought process for you, since you did probably not have to actively consider your wording.

ichbinjasokreativ,

Bullshit. Normalization means not making a big deal out of it, which goes contrary to the woke standard of putting it front and center.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

But like you say, if you want to normalize it, shouldn’t it be front and center then? Since that’s part of being normal, also being front and center?

ichbinjasokreativ,

It cannot be front and center and normal at the same time. It cannot be the main part of a character’s identity, else it will always be perceived as “special” and “extra”, but not “normal”. Devs can make whatever game with whatever chars they want ofc, but the result is what we’re seeing with ubisoft.

I’m just ranting at this point.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

It cannot be front and center and normal at the same time.

Why not? If it’s normal, any possible identity and any possible element will be front and center every so often, no? That’s what normality means after all? Something has to be front and center, and if everything is normal, everything will appear there repeatedly?

AFC1886VCC,

You’ll get nowhere with these people and their epic Olympic level mental gymnastics. Ultimately, only heterosexual white male characters are allowed to play prominent roles in video games.

ichbinjasokreativ,

I’m not saying that lgbtq characters cannot play prominent roles, I’m saying that people will roll their eyes if being lgbtq is their primary attribute.

mriormro,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

Every day I grow more and more tired of you braindead idiots.

ichbinjasokreativ,

funny, given that most gamers seem to agree with me, according to sales numbers. Noone wants this shit in games. Perhaps we’re not the problem.

frostmore,

last time i wrote something similar to yours,the left wing nutjobs came rushing in,guns blazing.

god damn wokies.

ichbinjasokreativ,

Yup.

frostmore, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

they can start by just making games as gamers want it,not inserting lame ass political agendas in their games or hire politically correct nutjobs to determine how games should be inclusive.

grayhaze,
@grayhaze@lemmy.world avatar

What you mean is making games how you want them to be, not the overwhelming majority of gamers. Stop thinking everything is an agenda designed to limit your freedom.

frostmore,

ubisoft stock price plummeting,black myth wukong having more players than star wars franchise,game with DEI rubbish tanking or having little to no players,yea majority have spoken alright.

grayhaze,
@grayhaze@lemmy.world avatar

I just need you to say the word woke now, and I’ll have completed my incel bingo card.

frostmore,

lol,cope and seethe.

helenslunch, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

This is going to be one of those “Ubisoft investigates Ubisoft and found that Ubisoft did nothing wrong at Ubisoft”-situations, isn’t it?

No, this is going to be one of those “our stocks are tanking and investors want someone’s head on a pike” sort of meeting.

pyre,

after careful consideration of the management decisions that brought us here, we concluded that 1600 layoffs of low level employees is the solution. those who stay will crunch harder for the same pay to make up for any lost labor so we can keep churning out slop that definitely has nothing to do with our crisis.

EncryptKeeper, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

What it really comes down to is that this type of “safe” game design where you rehash the same game over and over again for 20 years thing used to make a shitload of money, that’s why they all do it, and now it doesn’t. Or at least, they’re discovering that there’s a mathematical maximum amount of times you can rehash something without innovating. And not doing that is too huge a pivot for a huge lumbering company like Ubsioft to make on a reasonable timescale.

This is what’s supposed to happen though. When not enough people buy games to make them profitable, the games have to change, or Ubisoft goes under. Either is fine.

frezik,

And I feel like half of that 20 years was based on FOMO. “I better get the next Assassin’s Creed or I’ll miss out”, and then it’s all the same crap but they still sold a million of them. People do eventually wise up to FOMO.

delitomatoes,

Miss out on what? Unity was a buggy mess on launch, skip, the British one was a snorefest. By the time of the reboots, Ghost of Tsushima, Elden Ring and BotW already came out

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Well, it also doesn’t help how much they are “accidentally” insulting multiple racial groups trying to make an Assassins’ Creed game.

EncryptKeeper,

I don’t think they’re doing that.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
helenslunch,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Honestly the quality of games is the tip of the iceberg.

parpol, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

I want to reaffirm that we are an entertainment-first company, creating games for the broadest possible audience, and our goal is not to push any specific agenda.

Press X to doubt

jettrscga,

What agenda is that referencing? I’m out of the loop.

parpol,
RIPandTERROR,
@RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works avatar

Oh look. Unpaid internships.

parpol,

First of all, discriminatory hiring.

second of all,

With more people playing video games than ever before, it is important for us to help build an inclusive entertainment industry that reflects the diversity of our players.

Sounds like an agenda to me.

RIPandTERROR,
@RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works avatar

I suspect you and I have different appreciations of reality and I’d prefer to avoid further conversation.

Cethin,

It’s important to have a diverse workforce, especially in entertainment, because people with different backgrounds will have different ideas. Ideas are the lifeblood of how we improve things, and especially creativity. You people who can’t see this are destined to fail. If you think this is evil rather than smart business to ensure you have the greatest strengths through differences of opinion are really blind. All of history has pretty much shown that diversity breeds creativity and growth. Hegemony breeds stagnation.

parpol,

Nope. It’s important to have a skilled workforce in gamedev. Hiring based on gender and sexuality means you purposefully pick lower skilled workers in order to fill a diversity quota. Being in gamedev and having lead a team of juniors I can say this with confidence. Skill and motivation is everything, and their genders and sexuality mean zero. In fact, you shouldn’t even see their genders or sexuality. Every worker regardless of background has a unique view, and can provide creative solutions without having to be reduced to their genders, sexuality, skin color.

Hiring based on gender and sexuality is discrimination, and illegal for a reason (and these companies get around it by using unpaid internships). It breeds hate and extremism.

Also, going to need to ask for some source of that claim of yours because historically the most creative and successful games have been made by entirely asian male teams or entirely white male teams, and games with diverse teams have been failing miserably.

Cethin,

Hiring based on gender and sexuality means you purposefully pick lower skilled workers in order to fill a diversity quota.

Incorrect. It means that you pick the best candidate, and when they’re equal you don’t just choose the white man like we always have in the past.

I’m a straight white man. I have no issue with diversity because it makes everyone better.

Every worker regardless of background has a unique view, and can provide creative solutions without having to be reduced to their genders, sexuality, skin color.

Sure, that’s true because everyone has a different background. However, a straight white Christian man would likely never think of some of the things a gay Muslim would think of, because they have faced different issues and been taught different things.

For example, there’s an issue with IQ testing, where the tests were designed for typical western education. However, different cultures can be better or worse at certain questions just by how they’re phrased. Some cultures may think of something geometrically. For example, all math by the ancient Greeks were done with shapes, not numbers. They would solve math problems in totally different and unique ways than a typical modern day western educated person would. They aren’t less smart for it. Their brains were just wired differently because of the way they were educated.

Not every person thinks the same. Cultures, education, oppression, trauma, pleasures, and everything else effect how you think and you you’ll think of. Diversity in thought allows us to take advantage of this as much as possible.

parpol, (edited )

Incorrect. It means that you pick the best candidate, and when they’re equal you don’t just choose the white man like we always have in the past.

That is not what is happening, and your scenario cannot happen unless by equal you mean based on a very shallow measurement. You’ll never find two people who are equally good. It also doesn’t say the program is for women, non-binary or skilled men. It excludes men entirely.

However, a straight white Christian man would likely never think of some of the things a gay Muslim would think of, because they have faced different issues and been taught different things.

I disagree with this view. “Only people of X can produce quality X” is just shallow thinking, and can in fact be used just as much as a counter argument like “only men can make quality games for gamers who are mostly male, so we should hire mostly men”. A straight white christian male can absolutely have similar views and ideas to a gay Muslim.

Also, if you’re hiring a gay Muslim over someone else just because they are gay and Muslim, how do you think that makes them feel knowing this?

But more importantly, what does gender, sex and ethnicity contribute to a team of programmers, which is half the workforce of gamedev?

In hiring, when asking for expert opinions, when looking for quality, the best gender is always “any”. The best sexual orientation is always “None of my business”, and the best race is always “Human”

AFC1886VCC, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

Maybe they should try not making crap games. All that money and they can’t get decent voice actors or writers.

dinckelman, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

I can’t name you a single Ubisoft game that i’ve had any interest in buying, in the last decade

altima_neo, (edited )
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

I missed when they’ weren’t so focused on development and more publishing focused. They published some bangers in the late 90s/early 2000s. Grandia comes to mind and a ton of Dreamcast games.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

All of the big publishers from 20 years ago doubled down on a couple of key franchises that make the most money and appeal to the widest demographic, rather than the old strategy of having a diverse portfolio across most genres.

FeelzGoodMan420,

The last Ubisoft game I bought was Far Cry 3 in 2012. None of their games since then have even remotely interested me.

Postmortal_Pop,

I don’t recall the name but there was a farcry game on original Xbox that came with a map maker for couch PvP. It literally let you shape the topography and place any asset in the game, easily the best map maker I ever used.

Cethin,

I believe that was FarCry2. It was a really cool map editor. I wish more games still shipped those. I had so much fun with that one and Halo. I don’t know why that’s gone out of style, with the popularity of Roblox, Minecraft, and stuff, clearly kids still want to make things. (I haven’t played console in over a decade, so it might be popular still, but it doesn’t seem like it.)

SRo,

That’s not an unpopular opinion, that’s just a well known fact.

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Far Cry 3 loses all its steam the moment Vaas is out of the picture.

Which shows exactly why it was good: Michael Mando.

FeelzGoodMan420,

I actually really enjoyed Far Cry 3. But Far Cry 1 just holds a special place in my heart. It’s just such a good game and still holds up today.

owsei,
@owsei@programming.dev avatar

tbh I bought far cry 4, but because it was at a heavy discount and Ij ended up paying less than (the USD equivalent of) 4 dollars

SuperSaiyanSwag,

Prince of Persia came out this year and I would say that it’s one of the best metroidvania games ever made

Neon,

FC New Dawn was actually really good

kerthale, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

How about just the completely entitled attitude of the execs that think they can tell us how to enjoy something. Only to then whine that nobody wants to buy their 70 euro no better than mid game

Delphia,

They do damn near 10/10 work when they give a fuck, Thats probably the worst part.

Siege was damn near perfect as a tactical competitive shooter for the first few years. The Division was great, Just Cause was enormous fun and so on.

The problem is they hit a winner, and then milk it and milk it and milk it until we hate it or them.

WalnutLum,

I love the division 1 and 2 but the first game had some MAJOR bullet soak issues for the first half-year of the game’s lifetime.

Massive always does good work despite Ubisoft, in my opinion.

Katana314,

Massive are the ones that made Star Wars Outlaws - so it seems the world disagrees with you.

I wasn’t so interested in Outlaws, but I’ve sometimes thought the criticism was slightly overblown. It looks a lot better than some other Ubi games.

garretble,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly, Outlaws has flaws, BUUUUT it’s fun as hell. It’s a 7/10 game, but it’s fun. I enjoy my time with it even though I see some glitches here or there, or that the lip sync is a little jank.

It’s a big ass Star Wars game (with no AC towers hooray!) where you get to rub shoulders with scoundrels and play Sabacc and visit honestly cool locations that are visually impressive.

I feel like most of the issues it has is probably a function of “we need this game out by X date” versus the devs’ ability.

intensely_human,

but it’s third person

brenticus,

I finished the main story last night and I basically agree with you. It’s got plenty of issues, but overall it’s fun. It is neither the 9/10 game of most reviews I saw nor the 4/10 game that people want it to be.

I think my main issue is that it wants to have a story about the underworld and how you can’t trust anyone and you’re a huge underdog just trying to survive but it doesn’t want to commit to it. It feels thematically janky in places and ways that feel design-by-committee. It fills the shoes of Shadows of the Empire decently enough, but it feels like it was trying to be 1313 and failed.

garretble,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

I have this feeling that once it starts going on more sales and more people play it the general consensus will be that’s it’s a pretty solid game. I also imagine like a lot of these games there will be a patch in the next month that fixes a litany of issues.

You’re right it’s kind of interesting that the factions don’t really add a lot of meaningful gameplay mechanics, but oh well. At first I was like, “I’m not working with the Pykes AT ALL because I know what happens in your spice mines.” But you end up just being friends with all of them as needed (to get their rewards).

Just having this big coat of Star Wars paint over this otherwise fairly standard action/shooter/open world game really does make it more fun, though. I still have a bit to go in the story, but I’m just basting around cleaning up side quests right now because it’s fun to do.

WalnutLum,

It seems like a very polarizing game, you either really enjoy it or not at all.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

I’m old enough to remember when Siege was a Rainbow Six game.

intensely_human,

Wait, that’s old now?

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

9 years old is pretty old for a video game. When it first came out, the goofiest thing about it was the guy who could heal you by throwing a syringe at you. Now everyone has goofy super powers and things that would never make sense in the same world as something like a Jack Ryan novel.

Suburbanl3g3nd,

My god Siege was good for the first few years. Intoxicatingly good multiplayer. Too bad they fucked it up trying to make it more CoD like. For example, I used to play with a completely hidden hud because it was so immersive and fun. Now it’s like rainbow six and Roblox had a baby and the weird game popped out. I can’t even hide my hud or crosshair any longer

Delphia,

Yes it was. It was so frigging good.

intensely_human,

they did a little bit of this to hell let loose. The primary thing that bothered me was how when the game came out there was no hit indicator whatsoever. no visual no sound nothing. it made for some very interesting gameplay. then they added it indicators, even if you’re like 100 yards away from somebody you can hear this bullet go “whap” if it hits them

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Ah yes the “sears” method of going out of business.

hdnsmbt, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

Nah, this is about money. They’ll definitely find a group of underpaid employees to fire.

RvTV95XBeo,

They’ll fire the developers that implemented the unpopular features (that they didn’t want to build in the first place but were forced upon them from executives, who, by the way, are due for their end of year bonuses!!)

slazer2au, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

Clearly what they need is more management layers and SCRUM masters to streamline the game creation process.

Kit,

Don’t forget AGILE. That should solve all of their problems, right?

DudeDudenson,

They’re going lean so they’re firing half their workforce so the rest can produce more work. Don’t worry though middle management is safe

100,

and a dozen more external contractors will def make their games better

pinpin,

And of course, the preferred way is to do it at the office, 5 days a week.

slazer2au,

How else do we foster a sense of team if all the devs are not in the office 5 days a week?

Janovich,

Also to promote a sense of community and close cooperation we’re moving to an open office plan. (I.e. packed in like sardines to glorified picnic tables with hot seating and noise everywhere.)

intensely_human,

We will be installing clackball tables every 20 feet

intensely_human, do games w Ubisoft's Board is Launching an Investigation Into The Company Struggles

it’s always really annoying when there’s the assumption that the existing team is not aware of and trying to fix problems. I hate when I have a problem and I’m taking steps to fix it and then somebody else steps in to say “let’s figure out how to fix your problem”.

UnderpantsWeevil, do games w Ubisoft Cancels Press Previews of Assassin's Creed Shadows
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Always a good sign for a release.

Zahille7,

I mean cancelling preview copies of Space Marine 2 seemed to work out. They got to finish cooking and it paid off for them in the end with everyone’s minds being blown (I haven’t played it yet myself, but I’ve seen reviews).

But that’s most likely not the case here.

PunchingWood, (edited )

deleted_by_moderator

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  • Zahille7,

    Taste is always subjective. I watched Charlie play it on YouTube, and he played the whole thing with mouse and keyboard and he fucking loved it. Like he was literally about jump balls deep into the tabletop and mini aspect of the IP.

    Also, “pandering to LGBTQ”? A) it’s 40K, which aside from aesthetics is one of the least sexual franchises of all time. B) fuck off with that shit.

    PunchingWood, (edited )

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • cowfodder,

    Lgbtqia people existing is not “real world politics” and they are grossly underrepresented in media.

    baguettefish, (edited )

    Do you have examples of DEI’d games? Do you have sources for saying devs don’t want to do it anymore? So far I only know of guys that record videos of themselves screaming “fucking pronouns” being offended by the mere presence of pronouns, and that’s not even “DEI”. There’s also that weird steam recommendation character who criticizes every game that has a woman who isn’t meant to be a sex object, but these are all very fringe and often severely disturbed people, not at all representative of any real impactful opinions.

    EDIT: Of course I don’t mean to say that these anti-woke beliefs aren’t dangerous in the right hand, or that anti-woke anti-justice warriors can’t pose a danger to anyone, but their beliefs do not need to be discussed and argued with every time, and definitely not in good faith.

    LainTrain,

    The funko pop star wars nintendo pronoun screamers are to the political right what Alex Jones is to Ronald Reagan

    AFallingAnvil,
    @AFallingAnvil@lemmy.ca avatar

    I feel like I need a translator for this comment

    baguettefish,

    I’m assuming “useful idiots continuing a harmful tradition”

    Wav_function,

    OMG totally agree. It’s so upsetting when my game isn’t just about straight white characters.

    PunchingWood,

    Not what I said. And like many others entirely missing the point.

    Wav_function,

    Yeah I’m making fun of you

    inb4_FoundTheVegan,
    @inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world avatar

    where no form of real world politics

    Oh fuck off, queer people aren’t politics. It’s literally just humans existing, but since some bigots want to limit their rights you call it political. This is the same exact thought process of asking “the Jewish question”.

    never cared what the main protagonist is like

    And yet here you are saying a bunch of dumb stuff about devs pushing things in. You can’t have it both ways.

    Rekorse,

    Do you have some examples? It would really help to discuss specifics.

    Dremor,
    @Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

    From the term used I can easily determine you are more conservative than most here, and even if your comment got reported multiple time on the basis of rule 2, I’d like not to overreact and give you the occasion to develop a bit more your arguments by providing examples instead of just “its like that because I feel like it is like that”.

    So, could you please kindly provide, as other in this thread asked, example of :

    • Games where those “political” topics doesn’t belong
    • Review criticizing SpaceMarine 2 for not “pandering to LGBTQ”

    I believe this would help open a more open conversation than some politically opposite attacking each other personally.

    In my humble opinion, Games being a work of art as much as it is an entertainment, it is up to the creator to chose what kind of story it want to talk about.
    Does they want to talk about how the LGBTQ community, which has been oppressed for a long time, in their game ? Fine by me, at lease I can have some insight from the viewpoint of someone of this community, albeit virtual, to better understand said topic.
    Those topics where not talked at all previously, so of course it would feel like it becomes a lot more present in the last years, just by contrast with the absence of it in previous titles. It is also a brand new storytelling topic on which game designer have very little experience with, so it is logical for it to be talked about awkwardly at time (thus the need for specialized consulting firm like Sweet Baby Inc), with some very obvious stitches at times. Just give them time to understand how to blend it better in the story and gameplay, and you’ll get the fun games you wish for, with a diverse cast you won’t even have to complain about.

    LordGimp,

    You can’t argue that 40k panders to the LGBT crowd because fuckin obviously if you’ve ever even looked at a 40k title, but you also can’t really argue that 40k isn’t at least a little sexual.

    You got ratlings, pretty much everything slaanesh, aeldari waifus, and the entire Ciaphas Cain series. And while yeah, you don’t exactly get steamy love triangles in mainline 40k lore, you also have callidus assassin’s and sisters of silence popping up all the damn time. Sex isn’t the focus (mostly. Looking at you ciaphas) but it’s certainly present in the setting.

    inb4_FoundTheVegan,
    @inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world avatar

    it’s a game that doesn’t pander to LGBTQ

    🙄

    Yeah, that’s not a thing.

    Zahille7,

    I mean I will say that apparently Concord has the characters’ preferred pronouns under their name in the top corner of the screen, but I literally had no idea that was even a thing until I saw someone make a post bitching about specifically that. Like even Charlie didn’t notice (or didn’t say anything) either time he played the game.

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