forbes.com

Nacktmull, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour

Well, fuck them, at this point indie games are often better than AAA titles anyway.

DaSaw, do gaming w The Main Lesson From ‘Baldur’s Gate 3’ Should Be ‘People Hate Microtransactions’

The industry can’t learn this lesson from their customers, because they didn’t get the bad idea from their market. It’s a society-wide trend, a symptom of a whole economy under the control of a narrow coproate elite that knows little to nothing about the industries they control or the products they produce. They contribute nothing to the productive process. They only work to streamline the parasitism that infests our society.

I have experienced this on the production end, as well. I used to work in pest control. For a brief period of my career, I was lucky enough to work for a midsized regional company, grown from a small family business, that was focused on solving actual customer problems. We did tons of one shot work. We did do quarterly and bimonthly service, but there was no particular pressure to subscribe, or to cajole customers who wanted to cancel service (because we’d successfully dealt with the problem) into continuing service.

Then the elderly couple that owned the company sold us to a global megaconglomerate (one of the “Big Three”). Over the course of a year, our focus changed. “Recurring revenue” was now the watchword, which is a tough fit in an inherently seasonal industry. And the reason they do this, in pest control, in game development, in every industry that can potentially produce any kind of surplus wealth, is because the owners (“investors”) neither know nor care about any of the details of the industries they control. All they want is regular and ever-increasing revenues, in exchange for nothing at all. You can’t even say it’s in exchange for access to their savings, because though there is a little actual savings in the system, that’s chump change compared to the ever growing wealthy elite that controls our society and devours our productivity.

setInner234,

Beautifully written and entirely spot on. The question is whether we will do anything about it. We probably have 10-30 years before this elite will entrench themselves forever with some kind of robot police that truly can’t be overthrown. (And it’s not like anyone is rising up now, even though the power is clearly with the workers)

And then this elite will Habsburg-jaw themselves into oblivion and all that remains of humanity are machines built in the name of shareholder profits. What a sad way for things to end.

Nitrate55,

Or, alternatively, they’ll ruin the earth’s climate in their selfishness and greed and either find a way to leave the planet and abandon the plebs to die, or more likely, die right alongside us as the climate collapses and ecological disaster wipes out the human race.

Either way, greed ends up destroying us all.

DaSaw,

I see a different future. The tendency of wealth to be drawn upwards as position comes to replace labor as the primary means of gaining wealth ultimately puts a cap on progress. It’s a soft cap, meaning it might happen sooner or happen later, but it will happen sooner or later. Eventually, the imbalance reaches a tipping point, where the slightest jolt to the system sends the entire thing crashing down. Maybe people get pissed enough that general rebellion breaks out. Maybe the population becomes sufficiently stressed and undernourished and, therefore, immunocompromised that a global pandemic goes well beyond COVID into Bubonic Plague territory. Maybe peoples faith in the system becomes so thoroughly damaged that law breaks down generally, forcing those ultra rich to devote so many resources to security the people providing the security become the new elite. Allowing “position” (in Classical Economic parlance, “Land”) to be in itself a source of private revenue sows the seeds of destruction for a progressing society.

Of course, once enough people die and enough capital is destroyed, society starts over again, going once again through an age where labor is in the drivers seat, until population and capital base recovers.

Rentlar,

Earning revenue by caring for your customers and the industry takes strategic direction, time, money and effort, and the kind of effort needed is different between industries.

Earning revenue by sucking the living shit out of a company works (at least temporarily) for any industry and a multinational C-suite executive can employ it to any industry to give themselves the guise of success.

It’s like instead of cooking and following a recipe, just take all the ingredients and stick it into a blender and call the smoothie a meal. You’ll get sustenance but you ruined what made food interesting.

slauraure,

Isn’t the whole point of pest control to kill ‘em [the pests] dead? Like, to have recurring business from the same customer one would have to not actually solve their problem. Barring any reintroduction of pests with seasonality as you suggested, or otherwise.

nexussapphire, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour

I always prefer a good 5 hour experience over a bland 60 hour experience.

Guntrigger,

It does sound like the next step here would be adding as much low quality filler content as possible to spread out play time.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Just add a bunch of GOW-style “slowly crawl through the narrow space” parts to pad the play time!

Gargleblaster, do gaming w The Main Lesson From ‘Baldur’s Gate 3’ Should Be ‘People Hate Microtransactions’
@Gargleblaster@kbin.social avatar

Baldur’s Gate 3 is certainly the latest and most prominent example, but Elden Ring, both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. The Witcher 3. The Last of Us Part 1 and 2. No cash shops, substantive DLC, if there is any.

And what do all those games have in common?

They're solo games.

It's PvP and MMOs where you can purchase an advantage, show off your bling, or purchase expansions to get a head start on the competition. That is where the microtransaction infestation occurs.

alternative_factor,
@alternative_factor@kbin.social avatar

Yup, this is why the last two Diablo games have been always online, no one is going to spend $25 on a skin macrotransaction when nobody else can even seen it.

NightOwl,

I have wondered what percentage of gamers don’t purchase any mtx in those type of games. We get revenue numbers, but I’ve wondered how many gamers avoid that aspect while playing the game.

Firemyth, (edited )

The problem is you only need a handful of whales to buy all the things for mtx to be profitable

NightOwl,

Oh yes. Well aware of that. Just more wondering how much of the userbase never actually spends money. Curious as to either how much of a majority or minority the active users who don’t buy any mtx is.

alternative_factor,
@alternative_factor@kbin.social avatar

I've been an MMO gamer for a VERY long time and I would say the whaling thing is a perfect analogy. I often pre-order expansions to MMOs like WoW and FFXIV but I have never bought cosmetics other than two race changes for FF, which would make me a "dolphin".

I noticed in WoW and FFXIV that if someone has one mount you can only get from the cash shop, they are VERY likely to have bought TONS of other cosmetics from the cash shop. If they don't have any cash shop mounts, they won't have any cosmetics from it either. It seems like most people are either "all in" or nothing, people like me are very rare.

frog,

I’m a lot like you as well. I’m one of those players who buys cosmetics from cash shops when I see something I really fall in love with, but I don’t feel the need to buy everything. I look at it as an occasional treat: sure I won’t own it when the game shuts down at some point in the future, but if I spent the money on, say, a takeaway meal or a night out, that lasts a couple hours and then it’s gone. I’m definitely a dolphin, not a whale.

But I wouldn’t spend a vast fortune on trying to get everything if I have to spend real money. In some MMOs I’ve bought cash shop cosmetics from the auction house, though. I think that can distort the impression of how much someone has spent in the cash shop, making it look like they’re “all in”, when in reality, they’ve just been playing for so long that they have more in-game currency than they know what to do with.

I reckon the “dolphins” are more common than you think.

Veraxus,
@Veraxus@kbin.social avatar

It’s a small percentage (10% on avg), but those who do spend, tend to be repeat spenders.

NightOwl,

Is there any actual concrete sources? It’s what I believe to be true too, but would be nice to see something concrete. It is fascinating how a small percentage of gamers change the landscape for a huge majority of gamers.

Rai,

D2R was fucking stellar.

…different studio, though.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

I don't want the lesson to be learned that devs should only make single player games either. Baldur's Gate 3 itself is co-op, for instance, and Elden Ring has substantial online components for multiplayer and otherwise.

iAmTheTot,
@iAmTheTot@kbin.social avatar

That is where the microtransaction infestation occurs.

Horse armour has entered the chat.

worfamerryman,

I wonder if this is largely why I stopped playing online games?

I played overwatch1 a bunch and while it had dlc, it was nothing you could unlock on your own. I stopped playing overwatch 2 almost immediately.

irmoz,

Dude MTX are all over solo games too, what are you smoking

Yearly1845,

deleted_by_author

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  • EremesZorn, (edited )

    No, you’re right, it’s all of them. Ubisoft is one of the worst perpetrators of this shit actually. Far Cry games having an online shop is so unnecessary.
    Edit: In fact, they’re so bad they attempted to implement NFTs in Ghost Recon. Like… what?
    That didn’t last though.

    vanquesse,

    the nft implementation in breakpoint was so bad that it seemed like it was missing the point on purpose. It was just different serial numbers printed on a helmet and the rarer the helmet the more play time you had to have on your account to actually wear it. So the nfts were barely unique, didn’t look cool and you couldn’t just buy whatever to show it off. Respect to the devs that managed to pull this off when execs asked for nfts.

    Neato,
    @Neato@kbin.social avatar

    And...every single ubisoft game. And bethesda games. I could go on...

    And Baldur's Gate is multiplayer. You can easily play 4-player online co-op.

    crow, do gaming w Here Are Some ‘Starfield’ City Maps, Since The Game Doesn’t Have Any

    In the future, maps have been banned. Somehow this never effected space travel.

    CarlsIII,

    Now every map is Taco Bell

    LoamImprovement,

    That explains why whats-his-breakfast in space cowboy town has his locked up.

    GoodEye8,

    Don’t forget the map points to literally a viewing distance from town, in a game where you theoretically have the entire planet to explore.

    xyguy, do games w WB’s ‘Ready Player One’ Blockchain, VR, AR, AI ‘Readyverse’ Will Of Course Be A Disaster

    Y’all know that Ready Player One was a DYS-topia right guys?

    Marsupial,
    @Marsupial@quokk.au avatar
    brsrklf,

    I didn’t know that meme, and the original tweet is funny and really hits the nail on the head for a lot of things…

    But from what I’ve seen of the movie, Ready Player One is more like “Please create the Oasis, so that asshole can have fun”.

    TwilightVulpine,

    Yep, Ernest Cline was always pro Torment Nexus.

    jjjalljs,

    Snowcrash was a dystopia too but that didn’t stop tech bros from jerking it to the metaverse.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    I think most govts and corporations see the word “dystopia” and understand “how-to manual”

    hydroel, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour

    If video games were priced by hours of dev time, I could kind of agree (with the theory, in practice it doesn’t really make sense). But let’s be honest here - that’s not what he means at all.

    dpkonofa,

    Not only is it not what he means but this same asshole would probably force devs to add padded objectives just so he could claim it takes more hours to finish. The new GTA will have 1000 missions where you have to walk across the whole map to retrieve some object that needs to be walked back to the other side if this dick gets his way. It’ll be the first game in history where it takes 2 years to 100% it and costs $200 so it’s a steal - only $100 per year of gameplay!

    hydroel,

    For some reason I can’t see your answer on the post: despite us being both from lemmy.world and me being able to otherwise access your profile and see your posts and comments, the only way I can see it is in my notifications, not as an answer to my post. Anyway.

    That’s why the original argument is inherently flawed: for the same price, I’d rather have 20 hours of carefully crafted content than 500 hours of AI generated fetch quests in a basic, procedurally generated open world from the latest version of the Ubisoft game framework. As a customer, I’m not buying playtime, I’m also buying the quality of that playtime.

    This is also why we don’t pay for a movie, an album, or even a show or an exhibition by their duration.

    ICastFist, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Man, imagine if movies or books charged you by the hour. Lord of the Rings would make bank!

    LufyCZ,

    Thing about a book (and a movie) is, that once it’s out, it’s done (99.99% done).

    For a game like GTA Online (be it V or VI), there are ongoing server costs, massive content updates, support, all that jazz.

    I’m not saying I support it, just that I understand

    mordack550,

    That’s why live services games needs to incorporate micro transactions. The studio needs to have a constant revenue stream to maintain the development and the infrastructure cost.

    That’s why live services game needs to end

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    That’s why live services games needs to incorporate micro transactions.

    Not really. Subscriptions are a thing, or used to be, at least. But they’re nowhere as profitable as mtx.

    That’s why live services game needs to end

    MMORPGs would like a word with you

    vivadanang,

    your understanding is misplaced; their ongoing costs are MASSIVELY offset by their in-app purchases already. to claim they need more is just greed.

    Koordinator_O,
    @Koordinator_O@lemmy.world avatar

    Game companies make profits unrivaled by any other industry and all we hear is “it’s not economic to sell a game for 60 bucks.” Now there are microtransactions and those profits skyrocketet. Now even that is still not enough. It’s just Ridiculous.

    LufyCZ,

    When did I say I support microtransactions? It doesn’t have to be both at once.

    nosurprises, do gaming w ‘Starfield’ Announces Nvidia DLSS Support, Food-Eating Button, Future City Maps

    By the time I buy it on a sale, it’ll be a great game it seems!

    snowbell,
    @snowbell@beehaw.org avatar

    I can’t wait to play it in three years

    massive_bereavement,
    @massive_bereavement@kbin.social avatar

    big patient gamer energy here, I didn't regret waiting for Cyberpunk.

    acastcandream, (edited ) do gaming w Microsoft’s Xbox Series S Parity Demands Are Now Handing Sony Free Wins

     I have a series S and even I think it’s unreasonable to expect full parity with a PS5/XSX after three or four years. It’s a $300 piece of hardware - it is remarkable what it does at its price point. It will be useful for a good 10 years, but it will not be able to keep up with new games after 5 at most in my opinion. It’ll be great for Indies or back catalogs.

    They need to stop trying to make it functionally a series X and focus more on making it a gamepass/xcloud machine. As it is, it’s just an albatross around their neck.

    Edit: Everything signaled that they were going to make it into a xcloud machine essentially. I’m not sure why they haven’t really pushed that harder.

    stopthatgirl7, (edited )
    !deleted7120 avatar

    I feel like their planning for it was really shortsighted - like they were hoping to get a as many people to buy the console as possible so they could “win” the console war early by having more people adopt it by putting out a cheap console people who didn’t want to spend so much would be drawn to, and weren’t really thinking beyond the first few years of the generation. Maybe they figured once they had the lead, they cold get people up upgrade or something. By they didn’t get the early lead and now the cheaper console means devs can’t really fully develop for Xbox. This will only get worse as more games start getting developed.

    phillaholic,

    Microsoft is terrible at Gaming. I fear how everyone seems to be ok with them buying companies up and putting games on GamePass. It’s not going to end well. It’s not even going well if you really take notice.

    acastcandream,

    It’s going great for me as the consumer with Game Pass. I have had over two years of essentially free games, because Microsoft rewards is too generous and easy to exploit. But I have no illusions about whether or not this consolidation is good for the industry. It simply isn’t. Yeah I guess y’all can call me out or whatever for using it anyway, but the series S with nearly free GamePass has just been too good for me as a dad with a full-time job and children. I’m still against the merger lol

    I vote with my dollar where I can, but sorry, sometimes I make compromises just like anybody else. That being said, if I have to start actually paying for it, even at the current price, I’m out. So basically it depends on when they decide they don’t want rewards to stay around.

    UngodlyAudrey,
    !deleted4132 avatar

    I mean, if you’re basically getting GamePass for free, I don’t think anyone would blame you for using it. May as well, right?

    acastcandream,

    Some people can be pretty dogmatic about this stuff but yeah, I feel like it’s better than cash. Especially because the stuff I do for rewards gives them pretty useless data and I have all kinds of privacy stuff running in the background protecting my data

    belated_frog_pants,

    Its going great now. The monopoly they want is to increase charges on you and you have to pay forever to keep access. This is specifically the point of gamepass.

    It may workout for you in the short rub, but you are still losing choice and value (you only rent access) in the process.

    red,

    As many people already boycott sony consoles due to them paying extra to game studios to never release certain games on xbox, there’s literally no alternative currently.

    And Game Pass is great, if they pump the price too much, it will just seize to be relevant and life goes on. AAA games are pretty dirt cheap considering prices have increased way slower than inflation and average game complexity.

    BadlyDrawnRhino,

    But Microsoft is doing exactly the same thing, only instead of paying for exclusivity of one title, they’re buying developers so not just their next title, but all future releases will be exclusive, up until MS decides they’re not worth it and dumps them.

    Sony absolutely participates in anti-consumer practices, but let’s not pretend that MS is any better.

    red,

    Day one releases on PC and Xbox, and coming later on PS5 is quite a bit different to day one on PS5, year later on PC and never on Xbox.

    There’s bad, and then there’s “you’ll never play this unless you buy our console”

    phillaholic,

    What games have Sony bought exclusively too? I’ve seen them pay for development of several. Microsoft has taken away sequels from PlayStation in the past. That’s worse imo.

    acastcandream,

    I feel like I made it pretty clear that I understand it’s going great right now specifically. 

    Oneeightnine,
    !deleted4231 avatar

    I think the problem they’ve given themselves is that they pushed it as a cheaper alternative to the X whilst also maintaining that it’ll be able to play the same games.

    How do they go about messaging that can’t be the case going forward without pissing off those that spent the money on the S in the first place.

    acastcandream,

    As I said in another comment, I own a series S, and I think it’s pretty ridiculous of me to expect a $300 piece of hardware to be able to play the latest games past five years. Even with what they have said, I just kind of assumed it can’t be true. 

    I imagine in two or three years I will switch to dev mode and boot retro arch on it. 

    Oneeightnine,
    !deleted4231 avatar

    Right but you’re probably a little more clued up to this sort of stuff than the average consumer who’s seen the marketing and thought ‘oh lovely, I don’t need a disk drive’ in this thing.

    Both my brothers own the S. It’s an incredible little machine, but imo they screwed the proverbial pooch when they pushed this as a 1080p alternative to the more powerful Series X.

    acastcandream,

    Hey I get consistent 1440p and decent upscaled 4k! lol

    NuPNuA,

    In almost every other case, it is playing them. BG3 is one outlier.

    Oneeightnine,
    !deleted4231 avatar

    Only takes one though. As soon as someone looking at buying a console sees there’s a chance they’ll miss out, they’ll potentially make the decision to go with the Sony machine instead.

    Microsoft already has an exclusive issue, this isn’t doing anything but compounding that issue.

    NuPNuA,

    Oh totally, this isn’t a good thing. At the least Xbox has its own, hopefully great, RPG coming out at the same time.

    EarWorm, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour

    Unrelated question, does anyone know any good pirate sites?

    Killer,

    710+627=? x.to

    OfficerBribe,

    What happens if I post 1337x.to here?

    Dasnap,
    @Dasnap@lemmy.world avatar

    Death.

    mrfriki, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour

    Then why are not GTA games priced at $20-30?

    Draedron,

    Because they offer thousands of hours of play time? Like seriously, all the things you could say against this idea and you choose to go go with “But GTA, one of the games with the most lively open worlds, where you can do so much exploring and random stuff, doesnt have much play time”

    courval,

    I don’t think he said that… I think he meant playtime is overpriced which considering the amount of people worldwide that play gta and the profit ratios it definitely is

    SineNomineAnonymous, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour

    deleted_by_author

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  • A_Random_Idiot,

    I’d be shocked if GTA6 has an offline/solo mode, with how much they’ve milked GTA5 Online for.

    CertifiedBlackGuy,

    The fuck over SP got is the biggest crime after the cucking we got over Anthem.

    A_Random_Idiot,

    Which is why no one should buy GTA6.

    but of course you know the mindless hordes of ignorant little goblins out there will not only buy it, they will preorder the mega super luxury ultra elite edition at that, making the game have a launch day sales record twice that of what GTA5 was in its entire first week.

    Thus proving to TakeTwo, Rockstar, and every other company that it doesnt matter how shitty, or how exploitative that they are… because gamers are fucking morons and will dumptruck money to their doorstep, and not even major fuckups like cyberpunk and starfield can prevent it.

    CertifiedBlackGuy,

    I liked Starfield and I still logged a shit ton of hours on it.

    But it’s story, dialogue, and character interactions feel that bad combination of rushed and PG13 in a setting that should be R. The fact that they will likely never rewrite and re-record these quests kinda blows. And the looting took a step backwards with the lack of clothing pieces and non-unique clothing stats.

    I’m excited for what the modding community does to the game, which is the major reason I bought it. I’ve got over 3000 hours on skyrim, less than 200 of that is vanilla gameplay ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    SineNomineAnonymous,

    deleted_by_author

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  • A_Random_Idiot,

    You can have your story.

    in small, online only installments for 29.99 a piece.

    NutWrench, do games w GTA 6’s Publisher Says Video Games Should Theoretically Be Priced At Dollars Per Hour
    @NutWrench@lemmy.ml avatar

    Of course it’s a Forbes article.

    Amends1782,

    Forbes says companies should make more money. Wow hot take Forbes thanks

    xkforce, do gaming w Positive ‘Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League’ User Reviews Split Unusually From Critics

    Ah yes the Mcdonalds effect. Objectively its greasy trash food but sometimes that’s just what people want.

    Cannibal_MoshpitV3,

    McDonald’s is an anomaly amongst fast food in my opinion.

    All fast food is trash, but I have the exact same greasy, salty, mediocre experience with McDonald’s every single time. No other chain has the same consistency between different locations. Its just a safe option every time.

    jackpot,
    @jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

    thats very intentional, they all dource their potatoes from the same type

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