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Honytawk, do gaming w You can't sue us for making games 'too entertaining,' say major game developers in response to addiction lawsuits

Well, apparently we can

bjmllr, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

phil spencer explains market discipline

theboomr, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

Comrade?

Sanctus, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

You know who will give you money? Customers if you stop treating them like piñatas.

PeachMan,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

Valve is an excellent example of a company that is privately owned, so they don’t have to satisfy shareholders with constant growth for growth’s sake. And yet they’re still growing and making a profit, because they make a good product.

Phil and Xbox don’t have that luxury because their masters sold out decades ago.

GnomeKat,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Valve is also a good example of platform monopoly. People need to stop treating valve like they aren’t also a big problem with the modern games industry. They are PC gaming’s landlord taking a 30% cut of every sale. You have to be smoking crack if you think that doesn’t hurt game developers.

Geth,

They are a monopoly because they’ve had the best product on the market consistently for 15 years. There used to be huge resistance to them and their drm from gamers, but they have shown over many years that they are trustworthy, unlike others that have tried this.

This is not an Apple or Google store situation where proper competition could not exist. They were always up against giants like Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft or more recently Epic.

GnomeKat,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

No they don’t, Steam barely ever gets updated, it’s not magically better than the others it’s just the one everyone uses.

Digital storefronts are natural monopolies. No one wants to use a different game launcher because it’s annoying to remember multiple passwords, to remember which game is where, to install and have multiple launchers running. None of that is Valve doing some amazing engineering that no one else has done, it’s just the natural state of game launcher / storefront economics. The only reason Steam is what people prefer is because it was the first one on the scene and has the lion share of users and games for sale.

We see the same thing happen with streaming platforms, the same thing happen with social networks. And Steam is also a social network which reinforces the monopoly. The other launches have friends and chat and shit but no one uses it because their friends are on steam or discord.

anyhow2503,

I don’t doubt that Steam being first to market is the biggest reason for their success, but you make it sound as if there’s some alternative store that is better for the consumer in some way. What’s the alternative? I have yet to see any other store/launcher come close to Steam in terms of features, even more so when it comes to Linux support, which Valve have turned into a viable gaming OS pretty much by themselves. In the end, even exclusivity and drastically lower fees for publishers didn’t make EGS the success that Tim Sweeney wishes it was and I think at that point being first to market can’t be the only explanation. They have to be doing something right.

Zahille7,

I think we’ve found Sweeney’s Lemmy account lol

Geth,

Today, yes, I agree. It’s really hard to compete with them anymore. But 15 years ago when everyone was rushing to capture the market, there were many opportunities to do so. Steam and valve were never infallible, but at least they took feedback and stayed consistent, unlike their competitors.

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Well if its a natural monopoly, they can be regulated to assure the price is fair and developers get a fair share of the returns.

UndercoverUlrikHD,

Nothing stops you from busting your games on other platforms when available. I always choose GOG over steam personally. What cut they take from publishers isn’t consumers’ concern.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I always choose GOG over steam personally. What cut they take from publishers isn’t consumers’ concern.

It’s also 30%, so I don’t understand his argument.

Zahille7,

Damn I’m surprised you got up voted for that.

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

This isn’t reddit, people here don’t mindlessly kiss ass.

sigmaklimgrindset,

Uh, the Lemmy circlejerk definitely exists.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

They are PC gaming’s landlord taking a 30% cut of every sale. You have to be smoking crack if you think that doesn’t hurt game developers.

Which is the industry standard. Who’s the one who is smoking crack?

What percentage do you think they should be getting?

PeachMan,
@PeachMan@lemmy.world avatar

They could definitely treat developers better, but they’re an example of treating customers right. That’s why they’re the biggest platform, and that’s why they admittedly have something debatably close to a monopoly.

Aasikki,

Bullshit. That 30% cut pays for all the features that make steam a better store than any other store. Those features are all free for the gamers, because they are essentially paid by the devs in that cut.

If that cut wasn’t worth it, I don’t think Microsoft, ea and others would have come back to steam after trying to make their own stores (and failing).

How can it be a monopoly when I can just download another store with a click of a button? Which I have also done, and even bought games from those said other stores, but the experience was just completely miserable compared to steam, up to the point I’ve considered rebuying those games on Steam.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but they give you so little money compared to investors and shareholders. 😅

AstralPath, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

Nobody forced this guy to be a soulless capitalist. He chose his career path. Oh woe is you, Phil. Must be so hard for you. /s

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

He’s speaking for the rest of the industry that also makes product that tangentally pays his bills. Not all assholes have to be brazen 24/7.

irish_link, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

I genuinely believe he just wants to make cool and fun games.

Dangdoggo,

I don't think that :/ I think his statements and the games he chooses to back sort of prove that ultimately profit is what he is interested in. I don't blame him for that. But don't make him out to be what he isn't. He is a CEO first, being a fan of games falls lower on the list.

UndercoverUlrikHD,

They aren’t exclusionary.

Dangdoggo,

No but if you "just want to make cool and fun games" you wouldn't fund Gears 5 or Halo Infinite now would you?

UndercoverUlrikHD,

I think Phil like most executives prioritise whatever they think will be best for their career, regardless of what their preference is

Melonpoly,

He’s had all the time, money, and resources to do that and hasn’t.

squid_slime, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'
@squid_slime@lemmy.world avatar

I’m glad he can see the issue but then part way through the interview he loses it, and jumps to feeding the capitalist system

saltesc,
regul, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

That’s not what capitalism means, dawg.

eskimofry, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

Sounds like skill issue.

Nakoichi, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'
@Nakoichi@hexbear.net avatar

Comments are surprisingly good

Omega_Haxors,

Lemmy is proof of what reddit would be without mass censorship and astroturf.

Talaraine, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

I dunno, maybe stop going public and just sell a decent game?

Donkter, do games w 'The gold rush is over:' Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon devs say that big Game Pass and Epic exclusive deals have dried up for indie devs

Yeah, game publishers are in their “cash out” phase after realizing there’s no competing against steam.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

There is if they’re interested in competing with Steam. Epic made some very competitive offerings for the supply side of things and then provided very little reason for customers to ever shop there, which it turns out is just as, if not more important.

Lesrid,

Let me gift games, let me wishlist games to receive gifts. There’s lots of other features I would also like but if other stores had that I’d be much more inclined to use the other stores.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

GOG does those things, for what that’s worth.

Veraxus,

GOG is great. I do wish Epic would improve their platform, though. It’s like they’re not even trying.

Etterra, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

Cry more rich boy, your tears are delicious.

PowerCrazy, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

I thought companies made money by selling a product to customers? Hmm, seems like there is some kind of contradiction here, perhaps Phil should look into that.

slaacaa,

Investors don’t care about that anymore. Line must go up more and right now. If not, they will replace you with someone who promises to do that.

The best ways to raise stock prices include downsizing, jacking up prices, and cutting product quality to save cost. None of these are even remotely beneficial to the customers.

intensely_human,

It’s like trying to win a rally by removing the brakes from the rally car.

Omega_Haxors, (edited )

It’s not a contradiction at all. Yes CEOs are the main beneficiary of the system but they’re still accountable to shareholders who run on pure capitalism. There’s plenty of examples of CEOs trying to do the right thing only to get sued by the shareholders then kicked out of their jobs. Nothing about corporations inherently needs to be done in a capitalist way, except the fact that publicly traded companies are legally required by law to run as capitalistically as possible, and if you don’t accept Venture Capital or go public, good luck getting anywhere in this system.

Hell, basically the entire premise of syndicalism is to put workers in control of the workplace and let things naturally evolve from there. Once you remove the core pillar holding capitalism up, everything will fall down one by one like dominos. If you want to see a fraction of how that works just look at places with high unionization compared to ones without and it’s like a completely different world.

Kushan,
@Kushan@lemmy.world avatar

You make money by both selling more and spending less.

Think about it, you can have none money left over at the end of the month by working extra hours at your job or by spending less money on something - but what if you can’t work extra hours because there’s none available? And what if you need that extra cash at the end of the month? The only thing you can do is spend less.

Phil is kind of saying the same thing you’re saying here, but it’s not easy to just “sell more”, not when everyone else is struggling to have that extra cash to spend.

The games industry right now, as a whole, isn’t growing. That means companies are selling less. Phil end everyone else would love to sell more, by all means if you’ve got some solid ideas on how to do that then every games industry veteran out there will happily listen to you, but the sad and shitty reality is that sales are down and when you’re a business, if you can’t increase sales you’ve got to cut costs.

And that means job losses. It fucking sucks and we can have debates all day long about the merits of capitalism and all that, but that’s the reality of today. That’s the game. Phil is being honest and up front here, it’s a shitty game but he’s playing it and if he wasn’t playing it, someone else would.

darkphotonstudio,

No. Modern capitalism is about increasing value for shareholders. Customers, quality, morality, etc. aren’t relevant.

intensely_human,

Profit, selling games, and maximizing value for shareholders are all fully correlated, to the point of being the same thing at different stages of the process.

Modern capitalism moves away from all three by focusing instead on current-quarter profit.

intensely_human,

The perception of profit is a more powerful force than actual profit.

Markets select for profit by simply trimming away the things that don’t make profit.

Boards of directors select for the perception of profit by firing CEOs who don’t provide them with that perception.

These systems are both operating. The companies that don’t make a profit will still die. It’s just that under this system, a company that’s on track to making profit can be redirected by a Board onto a path where they aren’t, because of that second mechanism.

dependencyinjection, do gaming w Phil Spencer blames capitalism for games industry woes: 'I don't get [the] luxury of not having to run a profitable growing business'

I actually can’t believe this is coming from a high level employee at a corporation.

Like we all know this is true, but isn’t it big to hear one of them talking about the insanity of the system.

deaf_fish,

I like it. I prefer the honesty.

teawrecks,

It’s PR. Anti-capitalist sentiments score well in focus groups.

lustyargonian,

Wouldn’t these sentiments lead to expectations and then actual changes in policies?

teawrecks,

As long as the policy changes lead to even more profits, then sure.

thesporkeffect,

If nothing else, it keeps an anticapitalist narrative in the public discourse

kadu,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

A controlled anticapitalist discourse. This is no different than that Pepsi ad with the “protesters” sharing a Pepsi with the police.

teawrecks,

Time will tell. I mean, he’s not wrong. I think it’s pretty clear that studios have to make profitable games at the cost of interesting games. But it’s not like msft or anyone else is going to change their behavior. They have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to profit as much as possible.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
teawrecks,

lol the difference of course being that Phil Spencer is not living on the income of a standup comedian.

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