lemmy.world

littlebluespark, do gaming w Goals when developing a game
@littlebluespark@lemmy.world avatar

Thafuq is Dusk?

CluckN,

It’s a boomer shooter from 2020sh

Pringles,

What’s a boomer shooter?

EchoCT,

Think OG Doom. Like late 80s early 90s Doom. Boltgun is a good more modern example.

InFerNo,

Really good fun game

ArmokGoB, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.

Yes, there was no online play or updates, so they couldn’t steal back the game you paid for because they decided to stop supporting it one day.

Prethoryn, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

I think there is something to respect about both types of games these days.

iAvicenna, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.

oh fuck, those beautiful manuals just came rushing back into the surface from the depths they were buried under.

ImADifferentBird, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Game updates bring bad with the good, because devs often rely on them to deliver a full, playable game.

When you bought a game back in the day, you got a full, playable game on the media. It wasn’t always bug-free, because… you know… it’s software, but they had to at least quash all the showstoppers without the benefit of a Day 1 patch.

And don’t get me started about DRM…

CileTheSane,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

When you bought a game back in the day, you got a full, playable game on the media

ET would like a word…

ImADifferentBird,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Fair, but ET was such an awful debacle that it killed Atari as a company and paved the way for Japanese companies to take over the entire market for the next couple of decades.

Now it’s just business as usual.

Chailles,
@Chailles@lemmy.world avatar

They were also much simpler and smaller back then with often extremely limited specification variations. And DRM existed back then too, with some fairly egregious and infamous physical DRM checks.

HawlSera, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating

Do a fucking Simpsons Hit and Run remake and I might buy that…

Can they even remake that given that Apu is a major character in it and liking him is “Wrong Think” now?

CaptKoala,

Apu is the second best part of the entirety of The Simpsons: Hit & Run, second only to Homer in his undies.

I said what I said.

CaptKoala, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating

People I know (not PC gamers obviously) balk at the sight of me playing a PS1 game on today hardware.

“Why would you play a game that old on such a powerful computer?”

“That’s obvious, upscaling exists, and games from this era were/are more complete, entertaining and bug-free than most things released in recent years.”

“Huh… Guess that makes sense.”

Is usually how it goes anyway.

Psaldorn, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
@Psaldorn@lemmy.world avatar

Genuine question: why does bedrock exist? What does it bring? Why is there the choice between java, bedrock and “Minecraft for windows”?

How do you fuck up this badly?

I tried using the launcher to move a java install from C: to another drive and it just points there and doesn’t do anything? Steam had this stuff figured years ago

Opisek,

Minecraft rewritten for better performance with platform interoperability in mind and so on. Essentially what could’ve or should’ve been a replacement to Minecraft if done right. It was not done right. Quite the opposite.

Mango,

In what world is c++ better for cross platform than Java?

Xatolos,
@Xatolos@reddthat.com avatar

In a world with consoles. Java needs a JVM, and those aren’t typical with things like the Switch (2 soon), PS5, and Xbox Series (half the alphabet).

Mango,

Oh ok that’s fair enough. I forget those exist sometimes.

EatATaco,

You forget consoles exist?

Xatolos,
@Xatolos@reddthat.com avatar

I think they meant JVMs.

Mango,

Yeah, except retro consoles.

Olgratin_Magmatoe,

C++ is generally more performant than Java.

…vercel.app/java-vs-cpp

Mango,

What’s that got to do with making things cross platform? Java programs only need to run in a Java runtime environment of which there’s one for basically everything. If you make something that runs in a JRE, it’ll be able to run on any device with a JRE that’s up to date for it.

kewjo,

given how many targets are supported by llvm there’s really little difference in cross platform support asides from building artifacts for the specific target platform. wrapping package delivery in a package manager removes the additional complexity to the end user.

Olgratin_Magmatoe,

Minecraft Java runs like dog shit. Making a faster port of it was worth it. They just botched it because Microsoft got its hands on it.

Mango,

Oh yeah that totally explains why it’s always been perfectly fine for me as long as I’m not looking at a giant wall of those shelves that display their contents from whatever modpack that was.

Olgratin_Magmatoe,

Bedrock routinely outperforms java.

piped.video/watch?v=qLjOIulsNcM

piped.video/watch?v=Z4GrbD2MA5o

piped.video/watch?v=p_mCekWWW_8

Just because you’re perfectly fine doesn’t mean all other machines are.

Mango,

So? What’s that got to do with making it cross platform?

I could ask what makes food hot and you would come in here telling me your refrigerator brand uses less electricity.

Olgratin_Magmatoe, (edited )

I wasn’t strictly talking about cross platform. I was talking about performance, which is tangential to the cross platform thing.

If you’re planning on making a game cross platform, you should choose a language that performs well for gaming on all platforms. Java ain’t that. Which answers your question:

In what world is c++ better for cross platform than Java?

C++ is better for this application.

supersquirrel,

Good thing we have Minetest and Vintage Story!

fhqwgads,

Because Bedrock runs on phones, tablets, consoles, and a host of other random crap, and does so relatively well. Because of that the install base and playtime especially among younger players is actually massively skewed toward Bedrock being the more used. Add to that rumors that the Java codebase at least was a terrible mess, and the performance issues Java edition still has to this day and it’s no wonder they wanted to do a full rewrite, especially after having to make things like the console editions and even one for the 3DS.

The windows launcher is annoying though.

kadu,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

There’s also the fact that Bedrock patches bugs that the Java community freaks out about patching. Several chunk update glitches and undesirable redstone behavior are exploited by the Java players, and they go nuts over the idea of fixing the issues. Bedrock, being a new codebase, obviously didn’t port over old crusty bugs and therefore doesn’t have to carry over those expectations.

fhqwgads,

To be fair I’d call it a wash. Bedrock fixes a lot of weird stuff like quasi connectivity and being able to push things like chests with pistons but also introduces it’s own bugs like weird timing things and randomly taking fall damage. There’s also weird differences like being able to do things with cauldrons or just like minor texture differences that they are slowly bringing into sync.

Psaldorn,
@Psaldorn@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks for the info + @kadu & @Opisek

UnityDevice,

Because Bedrock runs on phones, tablets, consoles, and a host of other random crap

And it also removes Linux support. Typical Microsoft.

accideath,

Linux and mac and any other x86 compatible platform that runs java…

MonkderDritte,

Bedrock not Java.

accideath,

Yes exactly. Java runs on Windows, macOS, Linux and any x86 compatible operating system that supports the Java runtime environment. Minecraft bedrock removes support for all of those but Windows.

Jakeroxs,

And adds support for Playstation, Xbox, Switch, Android, iOS…

accideath,

They all had minecraft before bedrock was a thing yet. That legacy minecraft without crossplay just got replaced by bedrock.

fhqwgads,

To be fair there’s a Linux version of the bedrock server. But yeah not having it on the steam deck is pretty annoying.

0ops,

Go into desktop mode, there’s a bedrock launcher in the package manager store thing, I forgot the names of both of those things, but search “Minecraft” and you should find it. Anyway, it basically loads the Android version of the game. It works pretty well. I play bedrock because everyone I play with is on Xbox

nrezcm,

Fairly certain I’ve had both versions working on our steam deck. It’s pretty straight forward like you’re saying.

derpgon,

Also swapped performance issues with more bugs that were there years ago and still persist because they are almost impossible to fix.

In the end, we all know it was done either because they wanted to shove microtransactions down our throat and/or had some kind of deal to maintain the Java edition without microtransactions.

Or, maybe, just maybe, they though “it’s just a block game, what could be so hard to rewrite it?” and absolutely failed what a single person got right almost immediately back in the day (like not falling through the floor all the time).

jyte,

rumors

You can remove that word, rly.

endhits,

Java is a hilariously bad platform for games.

kaffiene,

No it isn’t

NiPfi,

What makes you say that? I’m genuinely curious

Honytawk,

Java is (or at least used to be) one of the first languages new programmers started with.

Making it very accessible to create new mods.

NiPfi,

I haven’t modded as of yet but I started off with Java and am now a C# Dev and the transition wasn’t too hard since most of the same principles apply to both languages. Unity games, that are often written in C# to me are the most moddable ones, especially considering that there’s a ecosystem for Unity mods out of the box

kaffiene,

Minecraft. Runescape. Mindustry. Slay the Spire. Project Zomboid. Doodle Jump. Shattered Pixel Dungeon. Delver. Lots of mobile games. Also It’s rediculous to say Java is inappropriate for games when C# is used for games via Unity (unity is the value proposition there - c# is very similar to Java)

joe_cool,

Only if you’re incompetent. Otherwise just not optimal.

Starsector, Rise to Ruins and Project Zomboid run well and are made in Java for example. It’s harder to pull off but it can be done. (still needs native libraries though)

RandomVideos,

Is there even a choice? You now get both games when you buy one(and you get the other game for free if you already own one) and you can play on bedrock on java servers with geysermc

Psaldorn,
@Psaldorn@lemmy.world avatar

I accidentally bought Minecraft for windows for someone when I wanted java… so that was fun.

The launcher just says “here are the options” it doesn’t say why you might want to choose one over another. Ive played since day 0 so I’ve always gone with java.

Just felt like if bedrock was meant to replace java they should have just done it and dealt with it instead of having so many choices.

vox,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

Minecraft for windows is the old name for bedrock.
it was based on the same MCPE codebase

Crashumbc,

Honestly? Most large companies are more like high school. It’s all, friend groups, people rubbing each other’s backs, and in-fighting between departments.

A lot of VERY LARGE decisions get made for the stupidest reason.

Rikj000, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
@Rikj000@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Java > Bedrock

F*ck M$ for even making Bedrock…
It’s an inferior version of Minecraft and it fractures the modding community.

umbrella,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

its technically better.

microsoft just made it limited and stupid on purpose to make more money off it. which is more infuriating imo.

Sylvartas,

Also very on the nose for Microsoft

accideath,

Yea, back in the day I dreamt about a Minecraft that didn’t run on Java and thus better on the low end hardware I had. In my dreams it just still had all the benefits of the Java edition which is why I now dream of old Java Minecraft

Aasikki,

Yeah the infuriating part is not the mere existence of bedrock, but the fact that they purposefully made it suck. It could have been much better than the java version if they did it right.

DrPop,

So just fuck everyone who doesn’t play on Pc? There are aspects about bedrock that should be gotten rid of, but it’s existence is for the ability for cross play to exist. I play both versions but bedrock made making a cross platform server for my friends and I (who all play on different consoles) possible.

Rikj000,
@Rikj000@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Instead of making bedrock edition,
they could have focused on supporting JVM, and thus Minecraft Java Edition, for more consoles.

But since Java is a C# (also from M$) competitor, they likely did not want to go that route.

Anyways, you can play Java Edition on Linux, Mac, Windows and also Android.

Multiple consoles (E.g. PS4 / Nintendo Switch) unofficially support dual booting to Linux and/or Android.

For Android you can use PojavLauncher,
it even supports modpacks:
github.com/PojavLauncherTeam/PojavLauncher

I will not touch Bedrock edition,
especially not since it requires you to sign in on your Windows with a M$ account, while my Windows KVM is Ameliorated, which strips the ability to do so, nor would I want to if I could.

DrPop,

Yeah I hate the signing into a Microsoft account part. It’s unnecessary and they need to get over no one uses Hotmail.

vox,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

you don’t need to sign in, you can just sideload the appx package (it’s likely to fail due to license verification, there are ways around it tho, like stopping the licensing service)

K0W4LSK1, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
@K0W4LSK1@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Honestly I don’t see the issue here java already supports mods and they didn’t fuck with it and just added a way to do it for suckers as well

Aasikki,

Agree. I just wish bedrock was a straight port from the java version instead of being borderline ruined, the only difference should have been better performance from not using java and it being rebuilt from ground up.

aeronmelon, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating

“The Sims 2. A man with your specs?”

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Fun fact: The Sims 2 is abandonware. Other than buying used physical media, the only way to get it nowadays is through piracy.

aeronmelon,

Super Collection (Everything up to Bon Voyage) is still for sale on the Mac App Store.

Aspyr even updated it to run on Apple Silicon.

Godric, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating

Still playing Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines all these years later. Writing more than makes up for dated combat. Hoping the second one is decent.

Cryophilia,

Oh man that game is so good, they don’t make em like that anymore. Infinite replayability

HawlSera,

To be fair, as awesome as World of Darkness is… Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is still the only good Video Game adaptation they’ve made (Why is it this hard!!!)

stoicmaverick, do games w My wacky game made it to 4000 wishlists, have a meme as a thank you :)

An ancient pre-cardboard version of dick-in-a-box.

Blaster_M, do gaming w Classic Microsoft

Insert quip about minetest

Reminder that minetest (even with Mineclone 2) feels like “we have Minecraft at home” on a good day

Floshie, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.

There’s an analogy with the music industry too. Music recording before was for the “elite” who were sure that their music would hit. Nowadays, the music recording broadens to the public, ergo more less quality focused music is released.

The same goes with video games

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