Aside from my concerns about the kind of shit libertarians think counts as free speech, how the hell would Microsoft implement a ban on a Minecraft server that Microsoft doesn’t host?
Like I assume it’s just connecting to the server by hostname or IP. What are they gonna do, hardcode the server’s known IPs and hostnames and prevent connections??
how the hell would Microsoft implement a ban on a Minecraft server that Microsoft doesn’t host?
if a minecraft server wants to enforce verification of the game license, the server needs to be in contact with the authentication servers of microsoft. the server operator can turn this off, but then moderation becomes much harder, as usernane based banning becomes useless, and the paywall from ban evasion disappears.
other than that, in recent years there’s something with chat message verification that I think involves sending some of the messages to microsoft? I don’t remember exactly
but also the minecraft client could have a built in blacklist of servers. I don’t know if it has but it’s not much work.
a ban from the authentication server is probably easier though.
The chat message verification is the Chat Reporting system, which can be required on servers. That’s a whole rabbit hole to go down. TL;DR you can get banned from Minecraft if your messages get reported. (Use the NoChatReports mod like everyone does)
If it’s one of the oldest ones, I assume it’s for Java, which means it’s entirely run by the server operator and not one of those shitty 3rd party hosted servers you can rent out from within Bedrock.
I don’t remember ever seeing anything about how you need to run a server of your own in compliance with Mojang’s rules in the EULA or TOS.
If you want to say what you want, go ahead. Nobody is required to host that speech or allow that speech to be hosted on their platform or software.
MS is attacking free speech here in the same way that a moderator attacks free speech blocking a Lemmy server. Nobody’s saying you can’t use a modded client to connect to their server if they self-host it, but they’re defederating on the main client because they want no association with it.
Minecraft servers are a unique case because they are hosted by the owners. Microsoft/Mojang does not host online servers; they just host the authentication server that the client pings to check the connecting account UUID (and pull the skin file). The whole way Mojang “bans” servers is by marking certain IPs to always be told the connecting account is invalid. Either way, server costs are paid by the owner. I recommend you look into Minecraft specifically because the model has its quirks.
Personally I agree with the MC servers here purely because of that fact. Also, Mojang/Microsoft should be seen as an enemy of the common people for many reasons - including their Copilot AI. If the Chat Reports feature (where purchased accounts are neutered because of automated chat reports) isn’t reason enough to dislike Microsoft, consider the following: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I recommend you look into Minecraft specifically because the model has its quirks.
I’m familiar. The first server I hosted was an alpha hmod server for some friends, and I’ve played a lot since then.
What MS is doing doesn’t prevent anyone from connecting to a server. It only puts a wall in the way, saying essentially to both the host and the players that this server violates MS’s terms for hosting, but not preventing them from doing so. Server owners can bypass this restriction in a few minutes with a single restart (assuming they aren’t using a modded server that can apply the change at runtime).
This isn’t unique to Minecraft. Games have supported custom servers for as long as I’ve been alive, and more recently as software became more and more internet-connected, restrictions on those servers have also been enforced. Being self-hosted or a custom lobby on a game doesn’t change this - the server software is still owned by MS and licensed to the users.
If anything, that it is so easy to bypass this shows that it’s nothing more than signaling. I would be much more concerned if the solution weren’t simply to change online mode to false. Sure moderation is another story, but there are alternative solutions, like IP banning.
Also, Mojang/Microsoft should be seen as an enemy of the common people for many reasons - including their Copilot AI. If the Chat Reports feature (where purchased accounts are neutered because of automated chat reports) isn’t reason enough to dislike Microsoft, consider the following: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
There are many, many reasons to dislike Microsoft. They have made many terrible decisions in the past, ethically speaking. This does not implicitly mean that every decision they make is bad or harmful. It only raises the question of intent behind decisions, and here the intent seems clear to me: they do not want their brand associated with the kind of speech allowed on that server.
Microsoft can revoke service for any reason, so it’s legal. Yes, this is exactly how it is done internally. The only way to bypass Mojang’s blocking is to run a “Cracked” server, where accounts are never checked, but in that system anyone can log on as any name.
What I’m saying is that it sounds like lying. If you say “Hey, is KelvarCherry legit?” And they say “no” they’re lying, but if they say “you’re not allowed to verify users” that seems fine.
Minecraft Java edition got 1.19.1 back in July of 2022 that enabled chat reporting, message signing and server wide bans. It was the turning point where Microsoft pulled trust and control away from its users and begun acting more like a middleman.
The issue then would be migrating all of your existing server to an offline server auth method. If there’s anyone who doesn’t log in during the migration period, anyone else could nab their account name (and presumably everything that account has on it) once it’s fully swapped over.
Plus, if the server remains popular after this, Microsoft lawyers could pursue legal action on the operation to bypass their auth servers as well
It’s inevitable. Microsoft didn’t give Notch a billion dollars because they thought they could improve the product for the users. They bought it because of the number of users. They saw a revenue stream that wouldn’t require very many resources to maintain and that they could also expand to multiple microsoft platforms and then lock behind a walled-garden to sell access as a service. Of course they wanted to confine the player population to servers that microsfot controlled. That is the only way they could ensure that any add-ons/mods/players etc were gated behind their own storefront.
I hate Microsoft but I also hate self-described “Libertarians” complaining about free speech because it usually means they want to spam slurs and white supremacist bullshit without pushback.
I replied to a comment like this somewhere else, so I’ll just paste this here
Take this with a grain of salt, as I’m a commoner on the server.
While freedom of speech means you can yell whatever racial slurs you want, it doesn’t mean you are free from consequences. When you start saying bigoted stuff on the chat, you will be targeted by players and get /ignore’d.
I would advise you to make your own judgement by reading the chat logs on Discord or IRC, but not everybody has that amount of time. Some people said vile stuff here, but every time someone says some weird stuff, it always gets backlash, and it definitely isn’t a nazi breeding ground.
Also I’ll add this, Most of the server staff and community are queer and from different backgrounds, slurs aren’t taken kindly here.
While freedom of speech means you can yell whatever racial slurs you want, it doesn’t mean you are free from consequences.
This seems to be the MS stance as well, and they seem unwilling to associate with that kind of speech, so they want to cut that connection off as a consequence.
MS isn’t telling them not to speak. MS is telling them to take their speech somewhere else.
Mojang as well? Because MS employs hundreds of thousands of employees making their own decisions and owning their own work. I don’t see how Minecraft has anything to do with the poor decisions made on Azure.
That aside, the fuck does Halo have to do with Mojang? Unless you’re saying it’s the Xbox people as a whole I guess, which makes a lot more sense to me. I saw a bunch of people talking about Palestine and assumed you were just talking about that somehow.
Anyway, none of this really explains to me why they should not be allowed to limit speech on their own platform, regardless of what speech is limited. People can always pack up and go somewhere else. This isn’t the government coming in and arresting some people for having an opinion they don’t like. This is a company coming in and saying they want that speech somewhere else.
Edit: found the Halo reference, had no idea this was a thing honestly with the dumpster fire that is the US government going on.
I am? You’re the one coming out of left field with the Azure issues?
The actual topic is Microsoft games wanting to distance themselves from alleged racist speech while at the same allowing one of their largest IPs to represent one of the most openly racist organizations we have seen in recent American history.
The issue is whether they can limit speech on their platform. Their own hypocracy means absolutely nothing. They are free to be as inconsistent as they want so long as their rules stick to their own software and platforms.
Edit: I should add that “they should allow racism here because they do somewhere else” has to be the most wild argument I’ve ever read.
I mean fair enough. I think we both agree on a base level. I’m not arguing they shouldnt limit their server, and you’re not arguing that their ICE support is laudable. Think we just started misaligned.
TL;DR: Fascists fucking over (mostly) fascists. How about we sit back, watch, learn and switch to alternatives (Luanti), or at least offline/cracked Minecraft?
Tomorrow, to conform to the new regime, Microsoft starts to shut down private servers with mentions to LGBT and Antifa.
If you don’t stand up for free speech when its idiots using slurs, there will be no one left to stand up for you tomorrow when its your speech under attack.
No, but, we’re not in control of the standards here. This is how every censorship process goes. It’s “For the Children” or it’s about stopping Nazis, and then when the system’s established and normalized, they creep it towards oppression and suppression. How people are supporting this with everything else we see in 2025 is beyond me. Palestine Action. Kimmel. Kirk.
I’m glad someone else sees it. I’m very unsettled by the widespread support for corporation-determined censorship on servers Microsoft doesn’t even pay for. Did we forget Jimmy Kimmel? Do you not know of the “Chat Reports” feature??
Minecraft is actually a spiritual successor to a mid 1940s board game entitled MeineCraft.
The original Minecraft creator, Notch, has long looked up to the author of the original and particularly idolizes the 34th Revision of the popular game.
(Severe sarcasm warning. Look away if you’re allergic.)
I like that they effectively compared themselves getting an email to people getting arrested for totally innocent social media posts about nothing in particular, which we can all assume is the case without looking into at all. I also like that they’re asking for widespread outrage against this, and want a person’s name to attack converse sincerely with in the Free Marketplace of Ideas™. Such a good, honest person we can definitely trust implicitly, trying to protect Freeze Peach™ from Woke™ Left-Wing™ tyrants like Microsoft.
Maybe “like” is the wrong word. Hmmm.
[Not sarcasm] Right, we know what’s going on here. Gross, cruel, hateful people just wanna have endless “rights” over everyone else and I’m so sick of their games I can hardly even type a non-sarcastic sentence. Ugh. Bleh. Et cetera. 🙄
What Microsoft is doing with Minecraft should be illegal. After they purchased Minecraft from Mojang, they started changing the rules so instead of being a game you have purchased and you play with your friends how you want to play it, it’s a game that you have a temporary license to use in a way that Microsoft thinks is appropriate for small children, even if you are hosting your own private server like these people are doing. Microsoft doesn’t like the way that these people are playing the game and talking outside the game, so they are taking the game away. You may not like these people because they sound like the kind of people that use “free speech” as an excuse for hate speech, but would it be the same if Microsoft were taking away the game from servers that allowed people to specify their pronouns or use different color combinations associated with LGBTQ representation, which they may soon be pressured to do by the government of the country they are headquartered in?
While I would normally agree with this argument, this also comes right after they announced that they will stop obfuscating the code to make the game easier to mod. Most other software? Sure, changing the terms after the sale and all is shit. This? Write a mod. It doesn’t take that long if you know some Java. Or play on an earlier version I guess, or put the server in offline mode, etc.
Self-hosted private server, just like a lemmy instance, one joins out of their own will. Imagine mega corporations being able to decide what is acceptable on your lemmy instance and take it down if they don’t like it?
"if you were in violation of lemmy’s terms of use, yeah…” wait, is there a central lemmy that can nuke other instances? I thought the whole point of the Fediverse was that if you don’t like an instance, you just defederate from it, and that there was no central power.
Yeah, we used to own the software we bought and could do whatever we wanted with it on our private storage, but now capitalism has realized it’s more lucrative to only sell licenses. Imagine Microsoft/Apple/Google erasing your privately stored documents tomorrow because they contained stuff against their policies. Very dangerous when you have governments banning abortion, trans rights, and even labeling antifascism as terrorism.
I can’t believe the number of people thinking trillion dollar mega corporations overreach is good just because it’s happening to others. Tomorrow, it’s you - that’s why we need more consumer rights and privacy protection, but the thing about rights is that they are for everyone and not just for the people you pick.
is there a central lemmy that can nuke other instances?
There is a legal process. Violating the AGPL that Lemmy is released under, for example.
Edited to add “Not letting me use slurs is a slippery slope to blocking positive lgbtqia statements” is an insane take, BTW.
The answer is simple - dont use their shit or abide by their terms. No, the intolerant do not gain any advantage with me by trying to cover with “freedom of speech” or “but what if they do it to trans folks?!?”
These are the people denigrating others, and while using a licensed piece of software too. Guess what - its under their licensing, thats their mistake. They can also stop being cool with having a Nazi bar.
Microsoft can’t take down their server. What they can do is ban it from connecting to their services. You do not need to connect to Microsoft to play on or host a private Minecraft server.
Hahahaha, they violated that well over a decade ago. It was supposed to give acceas to all future releases at one point, which died the moment it released on consoles. iirc people were pretty upset about it way back when.
Unfortunately the actual text of the alpha license terms appear to be lost to time, but you can find a number of posts online claiming the same thing, that it was worded in a way to indicate the license covered all future versions (across all systems), not just all future updates of java (and bedrock if you converted your account early enough).
While that may be true, that fact is immaterial. Microsoft can control which servers can exist, and thus they can and will do anything they want. The only way around them is to mod the game so that it’s more like a Terraria model, where anyone can run a server and anyone can connect to it.
this is already how it works for the most part, they just have Microsoft acting as a middle-man for player accounts as a form of DRM. you can remove microsoft from the equation entirely by using “offline mode” which also allowed cracked players to join.
Wait seriously? I’ve never played Minecraft, but the only control Microsoft has is an optional(?) account? Without that you can use any version of minecraft you want to connect to any server you want? That can’t be right, otherwise I can’t understand why this thread exists.
neither can I honestly, without mojang’s servers as a middleman there would be no account security and no skins, but both of those problems are easily fixed through server side mods/plugins made for that purpose.
this actually pisses me off a whole lot because i’ve hosted minecraft servers for over 10 years, and until recently Mojang had a completely hand’s off approach. the way I see it: if I’m hosting it on my own hardware then Mojang can get their filthy hands off it, only i decide what goes on my own god damn server.
Right, so it sounds like there needs to be a Mod that allows Minecraft clients to bypass central auth, I suspect a mod like that would look very similar to piracy as far as Microsoft is concerned.
no, the official server client has a setting called “offline mode” which bypasses the central auth without any mods what so ever, mods are only required to get back custom skins and security features
players could continue playing on their accounts like normal, they just need to do an extra “login” once they enter the server, to verify they aren’t spoofing as someone else
Phasmaphonia is pretty cool, multiplayer co-op with voice chat. Basically you play as a team of professional ghost hunters who have to investigate haunted places. Can be scary AF but awesome atmosphere and cool culture.
Ah, of course it's about the serious violations on free speech in checks notes the brutal dictatorships of Britain and Germany. The dictatorship of common sense dictating you how not to be an asshole.
eh, the exaggeration aside…the trend lately IS extremely worrying.
especially the treatment of protesters.
that said I’m pretty sure that’s got little to do with this situation…tend to agree with the others ITT: “libertarian” and “free speech” is seldom a good combination of words…
I can't deny there were some cases where the authorities have exaggerated. Especially recently. But you know where these people are actually coming from.
but do we? Microsoft is absolutely a mega-corp and would not hesitate to screw over people for money. If you’re anti-bigoty, don’t assume they’re your friend. Maybe someone “insulted” Charlie Kirk, or said that ICE are Nazis. Remember Jimmy Kimmel? I get your sarcasm in your original post, but I think you’re making an assumption that corporations are in the right when they take down speech, when they’d just as quickly shut down a trans-supportive group as they would a transphobic group.
This seems entirely tangential to the thread. At least from what I’m reading, they’re discussing whether Britain and Germany allow freedom of speech. Nobody in the thread seems to be talking about MS’s stance.
I think the statement that Microsoft is not your friend is noncontroversial, a given, and applies to every large corporation on the planet.
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