lemmy.world

CaptKoala, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating

People I know (not PC gamers obviously) balk at the sight of me playing a PS1 game on today hardware.

“Why would you play a game that old on such a powerful computer?”

“That’s obvious, upscaling exists, and games from this era were/are more complete, entertaining and bug-free than most things released in recent years.”

“Huh… Guess that makes sense.”

Is usually how it goes anyway.

Psaldorn, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
@Psaldorn@lemmy.world avatar

Genuine question: why does bedrock exist? What does it bring? Why is there the choice between java, bedrock and “Minecraft for windows”?

How do you fuck up this badly?

I tried using the launcher to move a java install from C: to another drive and it just points there and doesn’t do anything? Steam had this stuff figured years ago

Opisek,

Minecraft rewritten for better performance with platform interoperability in mind and so on. Essentially what could’ve or should’ve been a replacement to Minecraft if done right. It was not done right. Quite the opposite.

Mango,

In what world is c++ better for cross platform than Java?

Xatolos,
@Xatolos@reddthat.com avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Mango,

    Oh ok that’s fair enough. I forget those exist sometimes.

    EatATaco,

    You forget consoles exist?

    Mango,

    Yeah, except retro consoles.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe,

    C++ is generally more performant than Java.

    …vercel.app/java-vs-cpp

    Mango,

    What’s that got to do with making things cross platform? Java programs only need to run in a Java runtime environment of which there’s one for basically everything. If you make something that runs in a JRE, it’ll be able to run on any device with a JRE that’s up to date for it.

    kewjo,

    given how many targets are supported by llvm there’s really little difference in cross platform support asides from building artifacts for the specific target platform. wrapping package delivery in a package manager removes the additional complexity to the end user.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe,

    Minecraft Java runs like dog shit. Making a faster port of it was worth it. They just botched it because Microsoft got its hands on it.

    Mango,

    Oh yeah that totally explains why it’s always been perfectly fine for me as long as I’m not looking at a giant wall of those shelves that display their contents from whatever modpack that was.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe,

    Bedrock routinely outperforms java.

    piped.video/watch?v=qLjOIulsNcM

    piped.video/watch?v=Z4GrbD2MA5o

    piped.video/watch?v=p_mCekWWW_8

    Just because you’re perfectly fine doesn’t mean all other machines are.

    Mango,

    So? What’s that got to do with making it cross platform?

    I could ask what makes food hot and you would come in here telling me your refrigerator brand uses less electricity.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe, (edited )

    I wasn’t strictly talking about cross platform. I was talking about performance, which is tangential to the cross platform thing.

    If you’re planning on making a game cross platform, you should choose a language that performs well for gaming on all platforms. Java ain’t that. Which answers your question:

    In what world is c++ better for cross platform than Java?

    C++ is better for this application.

    supersquirrel,

    Good thing we have Minetest and Vintage Story!

    fhqwgads,

    Because Bedrock runs on phones, tablets, consoles, and a host of other random crap, and does so relatively well. Because of that the install base and playtime especially among younger players is actually massively skewed toward Bedrock being the more used. Add to that rumors that the Java codebase at least was a terrible mess, and the performance issues Java edition still has to this day and it’s no wonder they wanted to do a full rewrite, especially after having to make things like the console editions and even one for the 3DS.

    The windows launcher is annoying though.

    kadu,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    There’s also the fact that Bedrock patches bugs that the Java community freaks out about patching. Several chunk update glitches and undesirable redstone behavior are exploited by the Java players, and they go nuts over the idea of fixing the issues. Bedrock, being a new codebase, obviously didn’t port over old crusty bugs and therefore doesn’t have to carry over those expectations.

    fhqwgads,

    To be fair I’d call it a wash. Bedrock fixes a lot of weird stuff like quasi connectivity and being able to push things like chests with pistons but also introduces it’s own bugs like weird timing things and randomly taking fall damage. There’s also weird differences like being able to do things with cauldrons or just like minor texture differences that they are slowly bringing into sync.

    Psaldorn,
    @Psaldorn@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks for the info + @kadu & @Opisek

    UnityDevice,
    @UnityDevice@startrek.website avatar

    Because Bedrock runs on phones, tablets, consoles, and a host of other random crap

    And it also removes Linux support. Typical Microsoft.

    accideath,

    Linux and mac and any other x86 compatible platform that runs java…

    MonkderDritte,

    Bedrock not Java.

    accideath,

    Yes exactly. Java runs on Windows, macOS, Linux and any x86 compatible operating system that supports the Java runtime environment. Minecraft bedrock removes support for all of those but Windows.

    Jakeroxs,

    And adds support for Playstation, Xbox, Switch, Android, iOS…

    accideath,

    They all had minecraft before bedrock was a thing yet. That legacy minecraft without crossplay just got replaced by bedrock.

    fhqwgads,

    To be fair there’s a Linux version of the bedrock server. But yeah not having it on the steam deck is pretty annoying.

    0ops,

    Go into desktop mode, there’s a bedrock launcher in the package manager store thing, I forgot the names of both of those things, but search “Minecraft” and you should find it. Anyway, it basically loads the Android version of the game. It works pretty well. I play bedrock because everyone I play with is on Xbox

    nrezcm,

    Fairly certain I’ve had both versions working on our steam deck. It’s pretty straight forward like you’re saying.

    derpgon,

    Also swapped performance issues with more bugs that were there years ago and still persist because they are almost impossible to fix.

    In the end, we all know it was done either because they wanted to shove microtransactions down our throat and/or had some kind of deal to maintain the Java edition without microtransactions.

    Or, maybe, just maybe, they though “it’s just a block game, what could be so hard to rewrite it?” and absolutely failed what a single person got right almost immediately back in the day (like not falling through the floor all the time).

    jyte,

    rumors

    You can remove that word, rly.

    endhits,

    Java is a hilariously bad platform for games.

    kaffiene,

    No it isn’t

    NiPfi,

    What makes you say that? I’m genuinely curious

    Honytawk,

    Java is (or at least used to be) one of the first languages new programmers started with.

    Making it very accessible to create new mods.

    NiPfi,

    I haven’t modded as of yet but I started off with Java and am now a C# Dev and the transition wasn’t too hard since most of the same principles apply to both languages. Unity games, that are often written in C# to me are the most moddable ones, especially considering that there’s a ecosystem for Unity mods out of the box

    kaffiene,

    Minecraft. Runescape. Mindustry. Slay the Spire. Project Zomboid. Doodle Jump. Shattered Pixel Dungeon. Delver. Lots of mobile games. Also It’s rediculous to say Java is inappropriate for games when C# is used for games via Unity (unity is the value proposition there - c# is very similar to Java)

    joe_cool,

    Only if you’re incompetent. Otherwise just not optimal.

    Starsector, Rise to Ruins and Project Zomboid run well and are made in Java for example. It’s harder to pull off but it can be done. (still needs native libraries though)

    RandomVideos,

    Is there even a choice? You now get both games when you buy one(and you get the other game for free if you already own one) and you can play on bedrock on java servers with geysermc

    Psaldorn,
    @Psaldorn@lemmy.world avatar

    I accidentally bought Minecraft for windows for someone when I wanted java… so that was fun.

    The launcher just says “here are the options” it doesn’t say why you might want to choose one over another. Ive played since day 0 so I’ve always gone with java.

    Just felt like if bedrock was meant to replace java they should have just done it and dealt with it instead of having so many choices.

    vox,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Minecraft for windows is the old name for bedrock.
    it was based on the same MCPE codebase

    Crashumbc,

    Honestly? Most large companies are more like high school. It’s all, friend groups, people rubbing each other’s backs, and in-fighting between departments.

    A lot of VERY LARGE decisions get made for the stupidest reason.

    Rikj000, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
    @Rikj000@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Java > Bedrock

    F*ck M$ for even making Bedrock…
    It’s an inferior version of Minecraft and it fractures the modding community.

    umbrella, (edited )
    @umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Sylvartas,

    Also very on the nose for Microsoft

    accideath,

    Yea, back in the day I dreamt about a Minecraft that didn’t run on Java and thus better on the low end hardware I had. In my dreams it just still had all the benefits of the Java edition which is why I now dream of old Java Minecraft

    Aasikki,

    Yeah the infuriating part is not the mere existence of bedrock, but the fact that they purposefully made it suck. It could have been much better than the java version if they did it right.

    DrPop,

    So just fuck everyone who doesn’t play on Pc? There are aspects about bedrock that should be gotten rid of, but it’s existence is for the ability for cross play to exist. I play both versions but bedrock made making a cross platform server for my friends and I (who all play on different consoles) possible.

    Rikj000,
    @Rikj000@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Instead of making bedrock edition,
    they could have focused on supporting JVM, and thus Minecraft Java Edition, for more consoles.

    But since Java is a C# (also from M$) competitor, they likely did not want to go that route.

    Anyways, you can play Java Edition on Linux, Mac, Windows and also Android.

    Multiple consoles (E.g. PS4 / Nintendo Switch) unofficially support dual booting to Linux and/or Android.

    For Android you can use PojavLauncher,
    it even supports modpacks:
    github.com/PojavLauncherTeam/PojavLauncher

    I will not touch Bedrock edition,
    especially not since it requires you to sign in on your Windows with a M$ account, while my Windows KVM is Ameliorated, which strips the ability to do so, nor would I want to if I could.

    DrPop,

    Yeah I hate the signing into a Microsoft account part. It’s unnecessary and they need to get over no one uses Hotmail.

    vox,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    you don’t need to sign in, you can just sideload the appx package (it’s likely to fail due to license verification, there are ways around it tho, like stopping the licensing service)

    K0W4LSK1, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
    @K0W4LSK1@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Honestly I don’t see the issue here java already supports mods and they didn’t fuck with it and just added a way to do it for suckers as well

    Aasikki,

    Agree. I just wish bedrock was a straight port from the java version instead of being borderline ruined, the only difference should have been better performance from not using java and it being rebuilt from ground up.

    aeronmelon, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating

    “The Sims 2. A man with your specs?”

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Fun fact: The Sims 2 is abandonware. Other than buying used physical media, the only way to get it nowadays is through piracy.

    aeronmelon,

    Super Collection (Everything up to Bon Voyage) is still for sale on the Mac App Store.

    Aspyr even updated it to run on Apple Silicon.

    Godric, do gaming w They're often much older if I'm emulating
    @Godric@lemmy.world avatar

    Still playing Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines all these years later. Writing more than makes up for dated combat. Hoping the second one is decent.

    Cryophilia,

    Oh man that game is so good, they don’t make em like that anymore. Infinite replayability

    HawlSera,

    To be fair, as awesome as World of Darkness is… Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines is still the only good Video Game adaptation they’ve made (Why is it this hard!!!)

    stoicmaverick, do games w My wacky game made it to 4000 wishlists, have a meme as a thank you :)

    An ancient pre-cardboard version of dick-in-a-box.

    Blaster_M, do gaming w Classic Microsoft

    Insert quip about minetest

    Reminder that minetest (even with Mineclone 2) feels like “we have Minecraft at home” on a good day

    Floshie, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.

    There’s an analogy with the music industry too. Music recording before was for the “elite” who were sure that their music would hit. Nowadays, the music recording broadens to the public, ergo more less quality focused music is released.

    The same goes with video games

    seriousconsideration, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.

    I love my old school games and will never stop playing SNES, 64, PS1, and PS2, but there were plenty of crap games on those systems too. Just like how indies and Minecraft and Soulsbornes right now are dope as hell, but everyone complains about Ubisoft and EA so much you’d think that they were the only publishers in the 2020s. There’s been solid titles and shovelwware every single generation ever since the Atari 2600. Also, the games that a lot of us grew up playing that have gone down as “the best games of all time” like FF7 and Goldeneye would be considered borderline unplayable by kids today.

    BRING BACK MANUALS.

    darkpanda,

    Give Tunic a try. The in-game manual is a central piece of its overall puzzle.

    TwilightVulpine,

    Tunic is great! The dev said he wanted to replicate the experience of playing a game in a different language that you don’t quite understand at first, and he made it perfectly. English is my second language, and it reminded me of the times trying to play games before I understood it, struggling with manuals and dictionaries.

    The special edition comes with a physical manual, but ironically the player shouldn’t open it until they 100% the game. It’s like a spoiler.

    uis,

    If you want to read some manual you know where you can.

    PersnickityPenguin,

    Manuals?

    Don’t you like logging into the same game 6 months later and the entire game mechanic and progression system have been changed???

    Xanis,

    Most people don’t know about, or don’t remember, the old bins filled to the brim with garbageware games. Back when shit was still the wild west and people were releasing crap left and right.

    CorrodedCranium, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
    @CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar
    MintyAnt,

    Where’s the modded one? It’s like drugs, give me modded Minecraft, my body demands it

    Andromxda,
    @Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar
    CorrodedCranium,
    @CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

    Someone else linked one related modding but there are several other Minecraft communities that are more niche. There’s one specifically for seeds for example.

    Underwaterbob, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.

    You don’t miss those games, you miss being a kid playing those games.

    Soggy,

    I still go back and play some old stuff from my childhood. Super Mario 3 is still a really good 2D platformer.

    Underwaterbob,

    Exactly. If people missed playing those games so much, they’d be playing those games. NES games are trivial to emulate.

    And this is the ultimate in survivorship bias. Super Mario 3 is often touted as the best game of an entire generation. There are a lot of mediocre NES games.

    solitaire, do games w Gameplay mechanics were also a lot better with more replayability.
    @solitaire@infosec.pub avatar

    The level of quality and number of bugs depends a lot on the era you’re talking about, as well as the platform. As a PC gamer from the 90s, much of my technical literacy came about from trying to coax games to work. My experience with console gaming was usually much more hassle free, though I have far less experience with it and don’t have a modern point of comparison (last console I even used, not even owned, was the PS3).

    My real point of “it was better in the old days”, is the industry learning to exploit addiction. It’s everywhere, and it’s not just gambling. The longer you play the more likely you are to pay so even without loot boxes and the like, games are taking as much out of casino playbooks as possible. It’s fucking revolting and should be criminal.

    As someone who has had problems with addiction of various kinds in the past, it’s so blatant to me. I can feel it playing into my vulnerabilities and it makes my blood boil. I avoid most gaming these days because I know if I let it become a habit, the next time life knocks me down I’ll fall victim to this.

    Soggy,

    As a PC gamer from the 90s, much of my technical literacy came about from trying to coax games to work.

    Kids these days have no idea how easy they have it. Tracking down a driver update or patch (that you just moved to an unencrypted folder) on a dial-up connection? Re-installing your OS from a series of floppy disks because something broke, again? Limiting clock speed because so many things were tied to CPU cycles and wouldn’t function on new hardware?

    PC gaming was a nightmare but you put up with it because StarCraft or Quake 3 online was dope as hell, we had Diablo and Myst and Half-Life and Doom and Putt-Putt Goes to the Goddamned Moon so it was all worth it.

    dogslayeggs,

    Limiting clock speed because so many things were tied to CPU cycles and wouldn’t function on new hardware?

    I remember the day I learned this lesson.

    solitaire,
    @solitaire@infosec.pub avatar

    Young gamers don’t know the pain of a BSOD and the interminable wait getting back into game on an IDE hard drive. Even a CTD was a nightmare.

    ricdeh,
    @ricdeh@lemmy.world avatar

    This is restricted to a small part of modern gaming, though. In indie games, for example, you find none of these exploitative practices (talking in general, of course) and get wonderful, masterfully crafted works of art by people who do game development out of passion (also speaking in general, of course).

    solitaire,
    @solitaire@infosec.pub avatar

    This is restricted to a small part of modern gaming, though. In indie games-

    Yeah, no, maybe the fact that you had to immediately jump to indie games should have been a hint that it’s not a small part.

    vox, do gaming w Classic Microsoft
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    they srill advertise java for modding even though there’s no “official” support tho

    shimdidly, do gaming w Classic Microsoft

    This meme format is awesome. kekw

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