eurogamer.net

dsemy, do gaming w Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient - Opinion

I don’t play Bethesda RPGs for the set pieces.

I don’t care that Cyberpunk’s NPCs are programmed to walk to a specific place, stand in a specific way and say a specific thing at a specific time.

Cyberpunk’s main quest claims you have a few weeks to live just when the game really opens up to you, so thematically you are discouraged from pursuing side content, but it doesn’t really matter since except for a few quests most are very generic and most of their “story” is delivered through a call anyway. Great storytelling right there.

The NPCs in Cyberpunk are braindead, and when the game came out the set pieces didn’t work half the time.

I really rather Bethesda spend their time improving the parts of the games people who like their games want them to improve, instead of focusing on stuff their competitors are doing.

Ashtear, (edited )

It’s too bad you didn’t like the narrative structure with the calls in CP2077. That one ending uses them (or I guess you could call them voicemails, considering) to devastating effect. One of the most harrowing sequences I’ve seen in a game. It might have even saved a couple of lives.

gothicdecadence,

I’ve played the game and looked up all the endings but I only personally did the >!Nomad/Panam!< ending. What calls are you referring to?

Ashtear,

It’s the

ending spoilersuicide ending. All of them have calls during the credits, this one just hits very different.

gothicdecadence,

Ahh gotcha! I’ve never played or watched that ending so I didn’t know that happened. Makes sense though

SaltySalamander,
@SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

In other words, you've got maybe a couple hours in Cyberpunk.

acastcandream,

What? Dude the best part of the game is the opening 5hrs. It’s all downhill after that.

dsemy,

36 according to Steam. Sorry I don’t have more than a full day and a half to give a game before I give up on it to play something I enjoy.

KeenFlame,

I really don’t understand your reasoning. They use mocap and actors and spend so much time recording these scenes, then you don’t play them and then say you prefer Bethesda npcs? Mocap scenes and npc AI is so wildly different things. Ai That doesn’t even react when you shoot them? That can’t stealth? That clip into environment while looking at you like you are a ghost? I really try hard to understand your take here

dsemy,

They can spend an eternity on them and I still wouldn’t care about those scenes, it’s just not what I look for in a game.

tacosanonymous, do gaming w Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient - Opinion

It’s the most “mid” game I’ve ever played.

Also, it is not an RPG.

squid,

There isn’t such a thing as modern RPGs, not mainstream anyway

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Even with an extremely narrow definition, that's a bold thing to say in the wake of Baldur's Gate 3.

squid,

I wouldn’t say baldurs gate is mainstream, at least not in the same way as cyberpunk or Bethesdas games

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It's in the top ten most played games on Steam and had sold at least 5 million; even that number is two months old and doesn't include PlayStation. If I were to wager a guess, which you can often extrapolate from the number of reviews on Steam, it's much closer to 10 million, which is how many copies a typical Assassin's Creed or FIFA game will sell. Baldur's Gate 3 is mainstream.

Lowbird,

Agreed. It is though an example of a game breaking out into the mainstream from a normally more niche genre (this particular type of dense, top-down, turn-based RPG). I’m curious to see if its subgenre will grow more popular in its wake, too, and by how much.

I find it particularly interesting that it became such a hit because its systems can be rather overwhelming for people who aren’t already familiar with 5e/tabletop rules. The sheer amount of rules to learn, the volume of specific items and text bubbles to read, the fact that some aspects of the interface aren’t really tutorialized well, etc.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

I had no understanding of 5e, and there were a couple of things I didn't understand, but so much of that game, especially at the beginning, is choosing an option with a high chance of success and shoving or throwing things that most games wouldn't let you shove or throw. The way the game lets you verb any feasible noun, coupled with higher production value, is probably why this one hit. It's going to continue to make other RPGs with even higher budgets stand out as dinosaurs; not just Starfield but especially BioWare's next couple of efforts, given their Baldur's Gate lineage.

Shalakushka,
@Shalakushka@kbin.social avatar

It's because people aren't idiots like developers have thought for years. People don't mind a game where you need to read and learn as long as there is a payoff for reading and learning. We have been paying the price for devs thinking everyone is braindead for over a decade now as more and more mechanics and features are removed to please people who were never going to give the genre a chance anyway. By way of example, Dragon Age II didn't get the Call of Duty audience to play Dragon Age, it just convinced most who liked Dragon Age that EA only accidentally published one of the best RPGs of its decade.

Pratai, do gaming w Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient - Opinion

No, it’s Bethesda that makes Starfield seem ancient.

valpackett, do gaming w Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient - Opinion
@valpackett@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

for me, Horizon Zero Dawn was the real “wow, open-world storytelling can be that good and not classic Bethesda nonsense” moment

exu,

Idk, maybe it’s just that I’m comparing too much of the Witcher 3, but the story and importantly sidequests in Horizon Zero Dawn are mediocore at best for where I’m at atm. I’d concur it’s better than Bethesda though.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

The Witcher 3, to me, made Bethesda games feel dated. The structure of the game is nearly identical, but when you arrive at your quest, it never plays out entirely straight forward, much like the Witcher source material. Cyberpunk does follow along those same lines, even if it never quite hit the highs that Witcher 3 did.

barsoap,

HZD is very Ubisofty, but done right, as in it’s not littered to the brink with pointless collectibles and can actually be completed. It’s way more action than role-play or story focussed but that’s not a bad thing in itself. I think of it more like Tomb Raider, and for that kind of game HZD has plenty and very good storytelling.

valpackett,
@valpackett@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I couldn’t really get into Witcher 3. It was more the combat than the story but the story didn’t interest me much either…

acastcandream,

Yeah, I fell off it after about two hours.

scrubbles, do gaming w Cyberpunk's storytelling makes Starfield seem ancient - Opinion
!deleted6348 avatar

This is some of the most honest feedback about Starfield. It’s not bad. It’s just horribly dated.

It’s a standard Bethesda game, and it’s great for a Bethesda game. But Bethesda hasn’t updated anything in years, over a decade even. Characters are flat, storylines are fun but not engaging, it’s just… fine.

If this had come out in 2014-2016 as a successor to Skyrim it’d be one of the best games, I firmly believe that. But it didn’t, they took their time building it, which is good, but now we have games like the Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, RDR2, even ME3 came out after Skyrim. The format for story propelled RPGs has changed, and the bar has been raised.

Again I don’t want to be one of the “Oh bethesda bad boooo” people because honestly, I’m still having a ton of fun in Starfield. It’s just that for a brand new game… it’s really showing it’s age.

vagrantprodigy,

Honestly Baldurs Gate 3 is what really makes it look bad. Playing Starfield after playing that highlights all of the shallowness in Starfield.

scrubbles,
!deleted6348 avatar

Exactly. Compared to games from the early 2010s? It’d hold up. Compared to games in the early 2020s? It just can’t even be compared.

Moonguide,

Yup, this. I’ve played two runs by myself and on my fourth with some buddies and I’m still finding out meaningful stuff I didn’t do on my solo runs. Starfield is an upgrade in tons of aspects over previous beth titles (big exception is planetside exploration), they fixed tons of issues both Skyrim and F4 had. Skill checks, while not as present as they should be, pop up once in a while. Skill tree isn’t as boring as F4 but build variety suffers, same as in Skyrim. Character background pops up in convos sometimes (but isn’t as deep as it could be).

That’s starfield. It has the makings of a good game, and it is, but it plays it very safe. And because of that, NPCs are boring, as is the story, as is combat, as is pretty much everything else in the game. The only thing that impressed me was that one mission in the main quest but even that one was limp dicked on the finish. And ship costumization, but if I wanted in-depth ship mechanics I’d play KSP.

Like the game was too ambitious and too chicken shit at the same time.

scrubbles,
!deleted6348 avatar

I really like this, honest feedback to them. The game is obviously made by committee. That’s exactly what my wife and I have been saying, that they did a lot of cool ideas - and then dropped them half way through. None of the ideas are fully thought out or finished, it all screams “Some suit said ‘no this is great, move on’”. Some quick examples

  • Base building, awesome concept, I want to build a base on a foreign planet.
    • But what do I do there?
  • Automated crafting. Awesome, I love Satisfactory! I can do this.
    • Wait, I can’t limit items in transit, so I can really only transport one item over a link? So it can’t really be automated.
  • Oh sweet, I can build my own spaceship?!
    • But you are rarely actually in space and really when you are it’s just a mini game between planets.
  • and you get companions to hang out with you on your ship?
    • But they don’t interact with each other or do anything like help you fight other ships.
  • Oh and we get to have a fleet of ships?!
    • but they aren’t actually a fleet. You never get to assign someone as captain of another ship to help you fight pirates. You just… pick which of your ships you want to fly right now.

And that’s just some. Like so so so many cool awesome fun ideas that were just… “I don’t want to play with this anymore.” The fleet one especially stings. I was really hoping I could assign someone as captain of another ship, and when we jumped/spawned in space there it would be on my left, and it could help me fight pirates. I mean, how hard would it be to program that? They already have the ship, they have AI for dogfighting other AI, it would just follow behind you until you entered combat.

acastcandream,

don’t worry, the gap gets a lot smaller when you reach act 3 in BG3 lol

BigBananaDealer,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

ive heard it gets insanely buggy and forgets previous choices once you reach act 3. havent played any baldurs gate game though, so i have no clue on specifics

Caligvla, (edited )
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

If this had come out in 2014-2016 as a successor to Skyrim it’d be one of the best games,

LOL nah, it’d be shat on like FO4 was. Maybe not as heavily, because it didn’t opt for voicing the protagonist, but sure as hell wouldn’t be called “one of the best games”.

SeeJayEmm,
@SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org avatar

My son complains about this but I’m glad they didn’t give the protag.

acastcandream,

it’d be shat on like FO4 was.

FO4 printed insane money and won countless awards. It did fine lol

deegeese,

They said FO4 was shitty, not that it lost money

Looks like Starfield is more of the same.

squid,

Idk I find starfeild could even be a downgrade in some way, no ai habits like shop keepers must be on a meth bindge as they never leave they’re stores, the openish world is gone, in one lengthy mission I’d see 5/6 loading screens, usually when going from planet to planet then into the city then to do the objective then repeat in reverse.

Swedneck,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

i don’t understand how they could ship the game with more than 1 featureless gray rock planet, the interesting environments is the bread and butter of bethesda games and the one thing you’ve been able to rely on enjoying even if you find everything else to be garbage!

Wahots,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

While the subsystem of 5e isn’t my favorite, Baldur’s Gate 3 has an insanely good RPG system and every sidequest feels pretty unique. No radiant quests like 2077 or Bethesda games Sure, the sex scenes could be a bit better, and I’d like more dialog once you become the best of friends with people, but it’s still amazingly deep with great voice acting and tidbits of stories in various places and situations.

I recommend it if you haven’t played it yet! It’s definitely my game of the year.

GizmoLion, do gaming w Eldritch fishing horror Dredge's first paid expansion The Pale Reach out November
@GizmoLion@kbin.social avatar

Tbh is the ending of this one is as uninspired as the original game, I won't be picking it up.
Game is fairly fun, gets repetitive by the end, but I'm kinda tired of games that just end unceremoniously. Looking at you too, stray.

gk99, do gaming w Sony confirms cyber-attack exposed details of nearly 7000 current and former employees

Sony confirms cyber-attack exposed details of nearly 7000 current and former

😳

employees

😴

PoetSII, do games w Cancelled loot shooter Hyenas allegedly "Sega's biggest budget game ever", new report claims

This was the most “design by trends the CEO’s son saw five years ago” game I’ve ever seen. From day one you could tell it’d be DOA since it would be arriving years late and millions of dollars short, with absolutely zero soul or intent. You could smell the cash shop and sandpaper one-liners from a mile away. I feel for the devs at CA that have been pushed into making this game, and are now facing layoffs for it’s inevitable failure. It’s really time the C-suite started getting consequences for their poor decisions. Let CA make Aliens Isolation already dammit.

Pxtl, do games w Cancelled loot shooter Hyenas allegedly "Sega's biggest budget game ever", new report claims
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

I don’t get it. The game looked completely unremarkable. Even its big hook of having some microgravity stuff was barely present in the trailers. This was their big play? Really?

a “total lack of direction” around the game, with one contributor stating many members of the leadership team were “asleep at the wheel but they never seemed to lose their jobs”. The same source noted an engine change and “not committing to doing anything adventurous with the game” were all part of Hyenas’ ultimate demise.

Yeah, we can tell.

funkless_eck,

and gravity was done in a bunch of games - notably Borderlands Presequel but it was present in the original Quake.

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Well yeah, but there’s lots of ways to make that more interesting than just “set gravity really low in this zone”.

ChaoticEntropy, do games w Cancelled loot shooter Hyenas allegedly "Sega's biggest budget game ever", new report claims
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

SEGA spent the most money ever… on a game that was years late to an old sub-genre, while mimicking games that had already failed like Lawbreakers. Great job.

clearleaf,

There are so many parallels to Lawbreakers that it’s kind of freaky. History has completely repeated itself.

UndercoverUlrikHD, do games w Cancelled loot shooter Hyenas allegedly "Sega's biggest budget game ever", new report claims

Total War Warhammer 3 “died” for this, talk about terrible management.

4am, do games w Cancelled loot shooter Hyenas allegedly "Sega's biggest budget game ever", new report claims

“Gleeful Audacity” is the best way I’ve heard to describe the “Harley Quinninfication” of game characters.

Can we stop with the ultra polished sexy ringleader clown steampunk eyeliner girls? It’s tired AF.

FracturedEel,

How many are there really?

wooki,

I’m curious as well tbh

peasinspace,

tell me where they are so i can avoid them

lester,

I mean, I don’t like this particular stereotype as well but it’s hardly a trend.

HuntressHimbo, do games w Cancelled loot shooter Hyenas allegedly "Sega's biggest budget game ever", new report claims

As a fan of total war warhammer this is so sad but also so cathartic. Its sad that this is how CA and Sega executives treated their employees and their IPs, but cathartic because it proves that the community was right and we were being gaslit. Pour one out for the community managers who the execs used as disposable flak vests for all their shitty decisions.

GhostMatter, (edited ) do gaming w Fall Guys developer hit hard by Epic Games layoffs, but studio to remain open

So many studios sold to massive companies to “ensure their future” in the last few years, but now that the zero interest era* is over, they’re being cut.

Sentinian, do games w Cuphead receives Xbox exclusive anniversary update
@Sentinian@lemmy.one avatar

Bonus menu of artwork, music, and behind-the-scenes videos, showing never-before-seen concepts and unused art as well as the entire Cuphead soundtrack

all stuff that’ll be online within 24 hours, no new gameplay content

Wolpertinger,
@Wolpertinger@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m glad this is the case, but still, exclusivity is bullshit.

BigBananaDealer,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

seriously, i want to play spider-man without spending a fortune on a ps5 or a computer that can run it

but, i have the old spider-man 2 i can always play on both xbox and ps2

520,

I mean, the new Spiderman games were made by a Sony studio and funded by Sony, so I can definitely see why those are exclusive.

BigBananaDealer,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

but spider-man used to not be exclusive

520, (edited )

Spiderman is a licensed property. Marvel sold time-limited video game licenses. The Activision games were never exclusive to any console because Activision had no particular stake in any one console. Then a video game license, a non-exclusive one, mind you (which means that other people can get the license and make games) was granted to Sony, who obviously does.

Thus, for the same reason 007 Goldeneye never came to playstation, Insomniac's Spiderman games aren't coming to Nintendo or Xbox.

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