bin.pol.social

Botanicals, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

Any of the Civilization games. I used to spend 10+ hours on a single session! My ass can’t handle more than 1-2 now

ameancow, (edited )

I keep trying Civ VI and keep uninstalling it before finishing a single game.

I can’t put my finger on exactly what’s changed since earlier games, but it’s lost a lot of the addicting charm and intuitive flow that made me play prior versions for days. Also, the goofy-ass style and overly dramatic narrative starts to irk me.

If that’s the trend of the franchise I sure won’t be touching any of the later ones.

chunes,

Sometimes I think it’s nostalgia talking, then I go back and play Civ II or Civ IV and confirm that no, no it is not.

SnotFlickerman, do games w Why is Valve being sued for almost $900 million, but Epic Games wasn't sued when they bought Rocket League and Fall Guys to remove them from steam?

What are they being sued for? I guess I missed this?

Also I guess it could be argued they only removed it from new sales whereas people who already owned those titles on Steam still have them on Steam.

eli, (edited )
@eli@lemmy.world avatar

They are being accused of price fixing with the whole “can’t sell games for cheaper on other store fronts compared to the steam listing” thing

warm@kbin.earth explains it better below:

It only applies to Steam product keys though, so developers cannot sell cheap Steam keys on other platforms while still taking advantage of Steam’s services.

SnotFlickerman,

Oh well that’s totally fair, honestly.

It locks out real competitive pricing.

warm,

It only applies to Steam product keys though, so developers cannot sell cheap Steam keys on other platforms while still taking advantage of Steam's services.

eli,
@eli@lemmy.world avatar

Yes this is a more apt description, sorry, this whole thing has been stupid tbh.

Cavemanfreak,

I believe the problem is that it isn’t just Steam keys. There’s apparently emails from Valve employees that state that it’s all versions of the game, and that seems to be the real crux here. And if that’s true it’s pretty shitty, and they might actually lose this.

warm, (edited )

Do you have a source for that? All I can find on their Steamworks site is the rules on Steam keys being restricted, not other versions. Maybe I missed that email part in the news.

Cavemanfreak,

They were mentioned in a recent Youtube video by Bellular News. I haven’t read more about it myself.

sukhmel,

I guess whether this is true or not will be a defining point of the whole lawsuit

Cavemanfreak,

Yeah, that seems to one of the few things here that might actually be relevant.

mic_check_one_two,

It only applies to steam keys though. Like if you want to sell on other storefronts (like Epic) for cheaper, it’s perfectly fine. You simply can’t sell steam keys on other storefronts for cheaper. It’s not really “price fixing” as much as it is “Steam ensuring their servers aren’t used to download the game unless the dev has properly paid them for the key”…

Like imagine a company wants to sell more copies of their game. So they set up their own site to sell directly to consumers, and it’s cheaper than buying on Steam. This is totally fine. Consumers can still choose to add the standalone version as a non-Steam game to be able to launch it via Steam.

It’s only a breach of contract if they start offering steam keys for that same (cheaper) price, which allows the game to be downloaded via Steam, includes achievement integrations, includes Steam’s friend list “join game” multiplayer, includes Steam Deck/Steam Machine optimizations, etc… If they want all of those nice Steam integrations, they need an official Steam key. And that Steam key can’t be sold cheaper than on Steam’s official store.

Nibodhika,

How does it do that?

bookmeat,

I think this lawsuit is actually about allowing people to buy dlc from other stores for games that you bought through steam?

unknown1234_5,
@unknown1234_5@kbin.earth avatar

ah yes, they are price fixing by saying devs can't set the price on steam (which the devs control) higher than the price on other platforms (which the devs also control)

Nibodhika,

That’s not true, it only applies if you’re selling a steam key. Devs are free to set the price on any platform they want, want proof? Check out the currently free game on epic which has never been free on Steam.

Steam provides developers with infinite steam keys that they can sell outside of steam for 100% profit, however those keys cannot be sold at a lesser price than what it’s sold on steam. Which honestly sounds like common sense.

Lfrith,

That itself is false too with a quick look at isthereanydeals showing lot of steam games being sold cheaper outside of the steam store.

Even the Steam key guidelines don’t explicitly state that steam keys can’t be sold cheaper.

It’s OK to run a discount for Steam Keys on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time.

partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys

Key word being comparable which is why if you are a user of isthereanydeals or /r/gamedeals you’ve likely gotten most of your steam games from outside the official Steam store.

I think some people just assume Steam sales must be the cheapest and don’t look beyond it.

I am puzzled why people believe Steam keys can’t be sold cheaper outside Steam unless they never looked outside the Steam store.

This is one example of a game that isnt too old is Silent Hill F.

isthereanydeal.com/game/silent-hill-f/info/

Historical low is $31.49 from Fanatical and Steam low is $41.99

Nibodhika,

Sure, but that’s more about Valve not pursuing violations than anything else (in other comment I also mentioned how they turn a blind eye to Humble Bundle as well). But legally they could go after silent hill f and demand it be sold for a similar value to $31.49 since some time has passed and stem users have not been offered a comparable offer. I think what’s in the clause they make people sign is more important than whether they enforce it or not, because if it was about price parity with other stores then it would be abusive (even if they didn’t enforced it always), but if it is about selling something they provide then it’s not abusive even if they do enforced it always.

Lfrith, (edited )

I just keep hearing claims, but nothing actually definitive when it comes to sources. Do you have any actual evidence that price is not supposed to be lower, because I don’t see clear language stating that in the steam key documentation.

And then when it comes to real world price tracking it doesn’t fit with the claims that devs aren’t allowed to sell steam keys cheaper.

That’s what makes it unclear. What is the definition of not worse or comparable? It could be interrupted as $41 vs $31 meeting the definition while selling for $10 but going no lower than $41 would be considered a breech. There’s no clear language of it has to be equal or can’t be lower. It’s language with a lot of flexibility.

That’s why I don’t feel like claims of people saying Steam keys can’t be lower with such confidence is appropriate. The sources we have at hand isn’t cut and dry and actual prices don’t fit those claims either to state it as a fact.

nogooduser,

I’m pretty sure that Amazon also says that you can’t sell things on Amazon for more than you sell the same item elsewhere.

I’ve certainly seen a video claiming that.

GuerillaGorillas,

Which isn’t accurate and is more nuanced involving Steam keys like another user said. For instance, Prey is on sale for $6 on the PlayStation store but still $30 on Steam.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/10b8e30b-6a07-45fa-9cd4-c4c8cbcd41c6.jpeg

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ace46a16-5ff6-4aef-9fb0-de01ff7dba5e.jpeg

SparroHawc,

That’s because they can’t intimidate Bethesda with an email.

lath,

As per my understanding (which isn’t saying much), Steam takes a 30% cut of each sale. In UK, someone with a specific agenda claimed to represent gamers as a class and sued reasoning that the 30% cut inflates the price of games globally even beyond Steam’s store, harming everyone.

Did i understand it right? No idea. What’s the actual goal here? Also no idea. Is Steam the “good guy” in all this? Of course not.

lofuw,

Well that’s stupid. If Steam charged less, the price of games wouldn’t change.

Developers and publishers would just pocket the difference.

Lfrith,

Best example is Ubisoft and EA when they took their games off Steam and Epic wasn’t around but didn’t sell their games any cheaper despite 0% cut. Or Final Fantasy 7 Remake released as an Epic exclusive, but was priced at $70.

It is weird. Every other product people know that companies want to charge as much as the market will take to maximize profits. Most noticeable examples being GPU prices over the years and now ram and storage.

But, gamers for some reason think companies want to price things lower as though game companies are so noble they escape the greed of capitalism to seek out exponential profits.

Adeptus_Obsoletus,

Is Steam the “good guy” in all this? Of course not.

Too bad a lot of people, even here or in other threads, don’t get it, so they willingly cheer for Valve simply because Tim Sweeney sucks.

KoboldCoterie,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

I think devs actually get quite a bit for that 30%. Let’s present a hypothetical. What if Valve offered an option where you could list your game on Steam with no restrictions and they’d only take a 10% cut, but the tradeoff is, they won’t promote your game at all? Like, it won’t show up in any Steam storefront advertisements, can’t participate in sales, etc. - it’s still there if it’s linked to from off-Steam or if someone searches for it, but it won’t be promoted, period.

How do you think that would work out for developers? I’d argue not well, especially for small studios.

The promotion those games get applies to the game as a whole, not only through Steam - someone can see the promotion on Steam, then go shop around and buy it elsewhere. Why should Valve promote a game if they aren’t getting a cut of the sales?

alsimoneau,

Plus you get the download servers, payment processing, customer support, reviews, …

yopp, do games w Why is Valve being sued for almost $900 million, but Epic Games wasn't sued when they bought Rocket League and Fall Guys to remove them from steam?

Because sweeney is greedy lying piece of shit, who’s using “think of poor developers being robbed by app stores” to cut himself bigger market share by suing fuck out of competitors

Like they won over google and guess what? He fucked over “all the poor developers” and cut himself a juicy deal to settle antitrust case

Fuck him, fuck Epic

appleinsider.com/…/epic-hypocrisy----google-gets-…

daggermoon,

Epic customer support is also garbage. I’ve sworn off the company.

Aljernon, do games w Why is Valve being sued for almost $900 million, but Epic Games wasn't sued when they bought Rocket League and Fall Guys to remove them from steam?

I haven’t really looked deeply into this issue but what caught my eye was the claim that a 30% fee was excessive. I’m no insider into video game publishing but 30% is the standard retail markup for many things. If you bought a candy bar today, it probably cost the mini mart you bought it from 70% of what they’re charging.

Taldan,

30% is the standard retail markup for many things

It most certainly is not standard in retail. Most retail stores have a margin of a couple percentage points. Walmart, for example, is ~3% net margin most years

Unless you’re trying to compare wholesale price to final consumer price. In which case I would say that’s a silly and pointless thing to compare, but even then it’s far smaller than 30% across retail and varies wildly based on the individual item being sold

A 30% cut is only really common in the tech sector where the underlying economics make it feasible

umbraroze, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?
@umbraroze@slrpnk.net avatar

There’s like a boatload of really classic Xbox 360/One era games that I’d love to play on PC.

Problem is they were made by Ubisoft or EA. Repurchasing them is already dubious from the get-go, but chances are the versions in Steam, if they’re still there at all, are old neglected buggy builds. And things are not much rosier on the Uplay or Origin! They may have gotten a patch or two, but old shit’s janky. These need the GOG treatment.

I did get the Mass Effect trilogy rerelease for a pittance. Also found out I somehow had Dragon Age Origins already. These should keep me occupied for a while, as (to paraphrase a certain video game villain) at this very moment, EA burns.

justdaveisfine, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

Most anything PvP.

I just can’t do anything with games that don’t allow me to pause (or go idle) as I just have constant interruptions.

It doesn’t help that many PvP games also have sweaty tryhard metas that put you on a different level if you’re not reading up on forums or discussions.

Abundance114,

I’ll straight up admit that I can’t compete in most pvp titles; and I don’t want to be a loot goblin for the high school kids who are going to 360 no-scope headshot me from across the map and then tea bag my corpse.

ameancow,

Arc Raiders took this trope and turned it on its head. The game is entirely about being a loot goblin around other people in a no-rules environment but if you don’t pick fights, you will gradually get matched to servers with other people who don’t pick fights, and you start to meet people and have adventures together, it happens very organically and pleasantly, and if you ever DO run into a PvPer the game doesn’t really give a huge advantage to sweaty try-hards, a newb with a basic gun can defend themselves just as well as some well-equipped player hunter.

Aljernon, do games w Why is Valve being sued for almost $900 million, but Epic Games wasn't sued when they bought Rocket League and Fall Guys to remove them from steam?

I haven’t really looked deeply into this issue but what caught my eye was the claim that a 30% fee was excessive. I’m no insider into video game publishing but 30% is the standard retail markup for many things. If you bought a candy bar today, it probably cost the mini mart you bought it from 70% of what they’re charging.

Asparagus0098,

Just letting you know that you commented the same thing twice.

Bakkoda,

That’s what Apple charges devs in their “ecosystem” correct?

protogen420,

thats what apple forces and imposes on any developer that uses the app store, which is most of them since on ios alt stores are only a thing on eu and japan afaik

Grimy,

Retail needs a location to store and sell their product. They need employees as well. One small Walmart has as many employees as steam does. Retails also buys the product in bulk, there is a bigger risk involved if it doesn’t sell or even sells slowly.

Huge difference imo.

WraithGear,
@WraithGear@lemmy.world avatar

and steam needs data centers and servers and power and all the stuff to keep those running. ultimately though it didn’t matter. if steam thinks that their ecosystem is worth charging that much, then it’s up to the dev to decide if what steam provides is worth it to them

Grimy,

We don’t know how much it costs for their servers but I doubt it’s anywhere near what they charge devs. Gaben having an 11bn dollar net worth kind of points to that.

The biggest problem is that it isn’t up to devs since steam has market dominance. Not putting your game on steam is basically suicide, they have close to 90% of the PC market…

Katana314, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

I love the story of Final Fantasy XIV, but it can easily categorize as “One of the most expensive singleplayer games of all time”. On top of buying the expansions, you’ll need to pay for each month you play; and unless someone’s really speedrunning, that will start to add up. Worse, for a first timer setting up their account, their website and payment system is really stuck in 1998, making giving them money an obtuse task. And, while the story has its great moments and excellent side content, a depressing amount of it is extensive polite dialog with just simple quests where you move to a location and right-click on someone. I’ve finished Dawntrail, and am glad I experienced it, but I can’t blame anyone who sees it all as beyond them.

garretble,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

Counterpoint: Someone can play up through Stormblood without having to buy anything.

But, yeah, I agree. I don’t really want to think about how much I’ve spent on this one game over the last 12 years. But roughly spitballing:

  • ARR, Heavensward, Stormblood, Shadowbringers, Endwalker, Dawntrail…I’ll say that’s 6 x $40 (not accurate since I bought special editions for some and moved from PS3 to Pc so that’s an extra cost there, too): $240
  • $13/m for 11 years (I’ve played ARR since launch but there have been some times where I turned off my sub for a little bit so I’ll just knock off 12 months): 13 x 12 x 11 = $1,716
  • Various Mogstation purchases, roughly $40?
  • Total for me with this napkin math: $1,996

Woof. But, I do love the game and spent all weekend playing it just now. So there’s worse things to spend money on.

cyberpunk007, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

Rdr2. I’m not making a damn account just to play the game offline.

Abundance114,

I would create ten different accounts to play a game that’s the quality of rdr2.

cyberpunk007,

Ya maybe one day. I also morally don’t want to support that behaviour.

Elden ring is the gold standard for me in multiplayer. It’s optional. It just requires you to be online. No account creation bullshit. And it’s a quality game also.

jiri,
@jiri@mendeddrum.org avatar

@cyberpunk007 @Abundance114 that is if you play on PC. other platforms might require subscriptions of some kind in order to enable multiplayer feature(s).

Jackcooper, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

Breath of the wild God of war (ps4) God of war (ps5) Resident evil village Super Mario whatever the switch one is

I’m midway through all of these except the god of war sequel but life has taken over. I miss gaming.

johnnixon,

I watched a friend beat TOTK so I just ran around and tried to 100% the game rather than beating it. Slower times too.

dreadbeef, (edited ) do games w Why is Valve being sued for almost $900 million, but Epic Games wasn't sued when they bought Rocket League and Fall Guys to remove them from steam?

Why is Valve being sued for almost $900 million

“The legal action, originally filed in 2024 by digital rights campaigner Vicki Shotbolt”

Vicki is a leading campaigner for children’s digital rights, with over 20 years of senior leadership experience in national charities. She is the founder and CEO of Parent Zone, an organisation that works with families and global brands to improve the lives of children in today’s digital world.

(Source: steamyouoweus.co.uk/about-us/)

That is why Valve is being sued for 900 million. Because Vicki Shotbolt wanted to. Why did she want to? Here is her claim (in her own words, not mine):

But Steam’s prices appear to be the lowest?

Steam can offer the lowest prices because of the anti-competitive price restrictions that Valve often imposes on game developers and producers (the Price Parity Obligations). This means a publisher or developer would not be able to list a game on another platform as well as Steam, unless the prices offered on Steam is the same or lower. This applies to games on all other distribution stores (including online and physical stores) not just those distributed by Steam Keys. This allows Valve to maintain the monopoly position it has for PC Games as there is not real incentive for gamers to go elsewhere where a game may be cheaper (which would then in turn enable those other platforms to improve).

It is also not possible to offer add-on content on other distribution platforms for cheaper or at an earlier time: this limits the ability of rivals to compete on price and enables Valve to charge the consumer higher prices in the absence of competition. The claim argues that the add-on content is a separate product, and that through the price restrictions and inability to purchase add-on content from another distribution platform or the developer itself Valve has illegally tied these products and limited consumer choice. Consumers must then purchase via Steam and pay its commission charge.

In the UK, dominant companies are not allowed to charge excessive prices. The claim argues that Valve’s commission rate of up to 30% is excessive given: competitors lower commission rates; the way the platform operates for the consumer; and the high level of profit that Valve is making absent a viable competitor (which its behaviour directly restricts as developers are not permitted to list games at lower prices on competing platforms). This unfair commission charge is paid for by the consumer.

"[…] but Epic Games wasn’t sued when they bought Rocket League and Fall Guys to remove them from steam?

Steam has a much easier claim to be considered a monopoly. It’s a little like (note: I never said it’s exactly like or it is very much like—I only said it’s a little like) Chrome being a monopoly for web browsers—everyone chooses to install chrome on their computers when they install a PC and prefer not to use the pre-installed Edge or Safari. Very few people install Epic games, much like very few people install Firefox. If you want to game on PC, you pretty much have to install Steam to play with your friends you know? Otherwise you’re kinda lame and don’t have friends.

TallonMetroid, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?
@TallonMetroid@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly, I kinda want to play Stellar Blade to see if the gooner bait makes up for what I’ve heard about the gameplay, but I’m not gonna shell out actual money for it, especially since it’s got Denuvo.

Also, I know it hasn’t even been announced yet, because Metroid Prime 4 only just came out a couple months ago, but Metroid Prime 5. At this point, it would have to be a Switch 2 game, and I refuse to get one because fuck that game key card shit.

MidsizedSedan,

Shaun has a video essay on Stellar Blade. According to him, its very much “can I copy your homework” of Nier Automata, and some sekiro gameplay.

I have only played the the later 2. Nier Automata is something I will never forget, and (IMO) Sekiro is the best Fromsoft+Combat game. Highly recomend both of them

Katana314,

I stopped Nier Automata midway because it felt completely awful. Then I was sternly motivated by someone to give it a full go and finish it all the way, and it got EVEN WORSE.

Stellar Blade, though, made the gameplay very enjoyable; and its writing, while following a very similar theme, didn’t feel nearly so excessively ultra-grimdark. It kept some core reveals for close to the end (I guess unless you were paying attention to what few audio logs amounted to more than just “They’re coming…! Agh! We’re all dead.”) but I liked the dilemma it posed.

johnnixon, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

Anything on PS5. I bought one thinking I’d catch up on whatever I’d missed since the PS1 days. Heard that that mushroom zombie game was good. Never started it. I just sit at the desk and play another round of CS2 deathmatch.

Aneb,

The Last of Us?

johnnixon,

Yes! At this point I wonder how much of the show has spoiled my eventual run through the game.

prole,

The first season of the show is pretty close to the first game… You might want to just skip to part 2 if you have limited time to play. It’s the better game imo.

One of the best narrative gaming experiences I’ve ever had in my life, and I wish I could erase the memory and experience it again for the first time. Season 2 of the show is only the first half of the second game.

The Ghost of Tshushima/Yotei games are also great. And of course, Bloodborne.

Katana314,

Not quite the same dillema, but I have a similar issue. I have many singleplayer games I know I want to finish, but when I start my vegout state, it often defaults to a few known multiplayer games, even knowing I’ve had many sessions that leave me infuriated.

it3agle, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?

Alan Wake 2, I loved the 1st but I’m not using Epic’s shitty store. Especially with Epic’s general anti-linux stance.

Broadfern, do games w Games you really want to play, but can't or won't?
@Broadfern@lemmy.world avatar

Ori and the Blind Forest, and other metroidvania/pseudo-soulslikes with pretty art and stories.

I just don’t have the patience to “git gud” anymore.

Maestro,

Ori was pretty doable for me. It helps that death has no penalty and resuming is instant. But I couldn't get through Hollow Knight and I didn't even attempt Silksong. I'm too old for that shit. Literally, I don't have the reaction time anymore.

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, same. And my hands are fucked up, and my reflexes slower. Shame, I used to like that sort of game when I was younger. Ho hum, plenty of other good stuff to play.

deranger,

Ori isn’t bad. I’d not consider it “souls like” in the slightest.

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