Following the meta isn’t the only path that leads to victory, especially as the meta becomes too entrenched. You need people that don’t follow it to come up with the new meta-buster that eventually becomes the new meta… but the vast majority of the players just do the same one thing over and over until their website tells them the meta has shifted, then they all do that same thing.
While of course making fun of anyone that doesn’t play that way.
I have 12,000h in war thunder and posted several videos about hilarious meta changes and likely been the reason why they got balanced out several months later.
My top tip is if you find a meta shifter, don’t share the info. Just enjoy it while it lasts
Current MM theory basically always puts the worst players on teams with the best players to “even out” the teams. But it leads to a terrible experience for everyone involved because the bad player gets constantly shit on and the good players are stuck trying to hard carry a whole team.
When that ends up happening for 1000-2000 hours of gameplay people get frustrated and call out the bad players.
Good players and bad players are both outliers. If you assign a numerical value to the players it’ll more likely try to balance the teams more than anything. I’ll put together an example.
P1: 100 - Best Player in the game
P2: 50 - Average Player
P3: 40 - Just below average
P4: 2 - Brand New to the game
To match these 4 players there’s only so many choices. Put P1 on a team with P2 or P3 and the other side is extremely disadvantaged. By putting P1 and P4 together, they average out to ~51. P2 and P3 average for ~45. The game thinks that’s a valid matchup, but really nobody is going to enjoy it.
This happens in both pubs and competitive modes because it maximizes “engagement” from the worst players, as they have a higher chance of being carried to a win when they’re put with the better players. Those also tend to be the ones who spend the most money, so these companies cater to them at the cost of enjoyment for everyone else.
Playing with people leagues better than you even if you are carried to a win sucks. In a lot of games you don’t even get to actually play. You’re dead before you get a shot off or never get to touch the ball or you fall off at the first obstacle and end not even getting to finish the race because you’re so behind everyone else.
That’s also true, and is often my experience in non-shooter games.
However it does work out that the lowest common denominator doesn’t care if they didn’t do anything. They’re just happy to win. The couch casuals aren’t ever going to be great, so their standard of a great game is much, much lower than anyone who plays daily or even every few days
I think it’s more of a votekick problem. There’s always going to be people whining about their teammates regardless of skill differential. People will also find ways to accuse same and higher ranked players of being bad at the game, because it’s more about ego and them being in a bad mood.
Even in games where votekick doesn’t exist this level of toxicity does, and it’s often because of the manipulated matchmaking algorithms putting them in that bad mood and inflating their Ego.
I don’t think that’s the reason, I think they’re using the game as an outlet for unrelated frustrations in their lives, but I agree that toxicity still exists in games without votekick. But personally I find it infinitely more tolerable playing a game with toxic people when they don’t have the power to kick me out of the match, because that means I’m not obligated to try to appease them.
Ugh. Then you have never had them throw the game and basically work against the rest of the team just to hurt everyone else.
I don’t think there is any easy answer, it’s just more people playing and the world being ever increasingly full of narcissists who just only can think of themselves as right that means a portion of any online take is gonna be shit. And yeah it really made me stop bother playing
For real. Was playing a Star Wars game again recently. Devs had dropped support and the community had become rampagingly toxic. I found a discord to play with people and actually have a voice chat and they all whined about how no new players showed up but they were repugnant to an extreme. Hyper gatekeep-y for a start but then add on a massive dose of sexism, racism and every other flavor of bigotry.
Decided maybe that the game had died for a reason and uninstalled that shit.
Kinda reminds me of the current state of SW:Squadrons. The only remaining community are the toxic sweats. The player count is so low that you pretty much always have to wait minutes to start x.x
I was talking about Battlefront 2 (2016) but Squadrons also applies. I tried playing that game online 3 times and just never bothered continuing it. I get being sweaty, fine, but being toxic about it is something else. Just not interested in it anymore. Been playing stuff like Baldurs Gate 3 perpetually now and it’s great. Or the Hitman trilogy. Actually looking at my playstation almost all the games are singleplayer. Only multiplayer game recently is a co-op game, It Takes Two.
Oh yes it can. People will compete over the kills and kill hog as much as they can. Some people will actively block you so you can’t shoot while they’re in a lightsaber hero. It’s just exhausting.
I hated quests that required killing an NPC because the game felt empty enough already. I would actually use cheats to resurrect NPCs afterwards just to have more bodies moving around.
I will give them credit for giving the NPCs homes and schedules. I love it when games have the NPCs actually live their lives like work, sleep, go to taverns, etc. You lose immersion in a game when the NPCs are perpetually glued to one spot.
That would be cool too. Random NPCs that you only see occasionally. Skyrim did have traveling merchants which was a nice touch. I’d like to see more of that. You could also have people who lived in the country show up on market days in town.
Yknow… even going into 3D the “big” cities haven’t felt as actually big as Castellia did. I think the amount of places you could go into and secrets you could find in it really helped.
Maybe it will be interesting to someone: what you see on the left is an artwork of Aldis, biggest city in a tabletop RPG called Blue Rose. As opposed to classic swords & sorcery, Blue Rose is in romantic fantasy genre.
Yes. I’m not the biggest fun of the rules but I truly love the setting - it is very evocative and inspiring in many ways. Highly recommend to read. The artstyle is gorgeous.
If you like D&D 5e there is an official conversion for that ruleset. Haven’t played it though
Meanwhile BG3 just has one district of Baldurs Gate available and it’s so detailed and jam packed with NPCs that it’s unstable for many people’s computers.
I mean Bethesda’s games are so full of bugs AND barren that I don’t see how this can be an actual talking point. BG3 is running just fine on my 6 year old pc
I’m a RTX 2080 user and everything is ok here. I’ve had more crashes on starfield than bg3 and have had to revert to earlier saves due to broken mechanics which I’m used to in the Bethesda style of things
I ran it with much worse hardware. It isn’t the power of the hardware that was the issue (unless you didn’t try turning settings down). Something else must have caused the crash besides power. Maybe not enough RAM or too slow of a CPU or potentially maybe loading from an HDD and it was too slow? It could also just be a bug with the specific hardware configuration in that computer.
Coop in BG3 is fairly buggy (split screen specifically) , I played with my wife close to launch and we ran into all sorts of performance issues and bugs on a high end PC. Still a great game though, but you can tell that split screen didn’t get a lot of love during development
I love BG3. It’s a very different game from Skyrim though. After all, that city is basically a third of the game. Plus BG3 has all kinds of travel and camera limitations that Skyrim doesn’t. That’s what lets them make the city truly seem like a sprawling city.
By comparison, Skyrim basically lets you go everywhere and it has a far larger map. Skyrim chose the “big as an ocean, shallow as a puddle” approach when it comes to map design. Though NPCs are actually deeper than BG3. Skyrim NPCs have lifes, while BG3 is frozen in a moment.
I don’t know Skyrim wasn’t that shallow. It’s not like most of its locations are window dressing like in an assassin’s creed game. Almost the entire map had somewhat meaningful encounters and mini story arcs
Yeah you’re right. I do think that in comparison to BG3 it’s very shallow, but in a vacuum or in comparison to many other games it’s actually quite deep
I always assumed that NPCs represented mroe than one actual citizen, because otherwise the world would become far to cluttered, and teh system requirements far to high to manage literally thousands of NPCs that exist for no reason.
Yeah, from a historical perspective it makes sense to cut down. Maybe not really as of Skyrim and later games, though. GTA games, including ones almost a decade older than Skyrim, manage to have a fairly reasonably high "population" of NPCs.
GTA and Skyrim are very different games and therefore need a different approach. GTA has some key characters which drive the story. The other NPCs are ‘set dressing’: fairly simple, nothing interesting to say, don’t have a home. They are just spawned in where needed. Skyrim has a different approach. Except soldiers/guards pretty much every NPC has a ‘life’: they have daily routines, unique voice lines, a place to sleep and go there every night - except they are on a quest themselves.
GTA and Skyrim go for a different feeling, which is why they need different solutions.
You’re aware nearly every npc has a name I wager? Those who aren’t are typically guards or bandits, half the NPCs in any given tavern have names but don’t have quests associated with them
I recall ages ago having read a theory about this concept of compression. That most game worlds that we see aren’t literal, but rather are compressions of the world that characters experience. A city that we see might have just 5 streets, but that’s just the city being compressed to a manageable size. For what characters experience, there’d be hundreds of streets. And same thing for NPCs, as you put it. We mostly only see the important NPCs and a small sample of others, but there’s many NPCs that really are there for story telling purposes, they just aren’t shown.
It’s a really good technique if pulled off well. After all, it’s really hard to have cities in game. You have to do something to limit it. Either padding it out, making most of it unvisitable, “compressing” it, or… just not having cities. Every option has downsides, but at least the compression approach optimizes for gameplay and your time.
Starfield proves that with New Atlantis. Its annoyingly huge, spread out pointlessly (for gameplay purposes, obviously a capital city is going to be huge lore/realistically), and is all around irritating to find stuff in… As an example
We want cities that feel big and vast, while being manageable and navigable for players playing a game.
We want cities that feel that are full of life and bristling with NPCs, without actually having so many NPCs that that you’d need a cray supercomputer to process it all.
There are plenty of old engines that have scaled better than Bethesda's. If they can't get it to modern standards after all this time, it's time to toss the engine.
i think that is a bit unfair to bethesda’s engine. all those other engines have achieved their scalability at the cost of extensibility and easy to work with game systems. this manifests most visibly in how mod support works for bethesda games versus games built on other more “optimized” engines, but it affects the core game design as well.
even if id software released their internal tooling to the public, it wouldn’t be all that useful for making the kinds of mods people make for bethesda games, because their engine isn’t built for all the systems-driven game design that bethesda’s is. that moddability is born out of how bethesda has designed their engine, the gameplay systems they built in it, and the tooling that supports all of this.
it’s truly insane just what you can do with bethesda’s engine with relatively little work. and it shows when you compare to games that try to imitate their game design on other engines. the outer worlds felt really static compared to fallout new vegas and skyrim, because it was missing so many of these systems.
bethesda games have a lot of problems, but ditching their engine for something like unreal or id tech would most likely destroy most of what makes their games unique.
I loved the hell out of CP, but it killed me that most of the businesses were spray painted onto the sides of inaccessible buildings and that lots of business was done via vending machine.
Maybe that was the goal, I don’t know.
Huge, living breathing city but you can only set foot inside of a couple dozen locations, and if you go to a place that isn’t currently part of a quest nobody has much to say.
That being said, I haven’t played the latest Dlc and should probably have a fresh play of it.
Baldur’s Gate 3 has also done this very well. The build up to finally reaching the city of Baldur’s Gate really is worth the in game hype. The city is massive and the entirety of act 3 is spent within it. They use the standard trick of ensuring you can only visit part of the city, with much of the city being inaccessible but visible. That’s a great way to make the city feel like it’s actually city sized while still ensuring that the part you can explore can be explored in depth (as in, almost every building can be entered and is unique).
As contrasted with the GTA approach where the visitable area is far larger, but you can’t enter most buildings and it’s more generic.
I think it’s pretty hard for an open world game like Skyrim to achieve the way games like BG3 or TW3 do cities, though. After all, Skyrim basically lets you go everywhere, which makes it difficult to fake the size of cities. Skyrim also tries to have not one city but like a dozen cities and towns. I feel like if they wanted to make a realistic city, they’d need to really focus on a small number of cities (probably just one city and a few towns). I’m not sure of the Skyrim scale can really allow for cities as detailed as BG3 or TW3.
Skyrim also has far more in depth NPC, which have routines going all the way from waking up in the morning till they go back to bed. That surely adds scalability issues.
They could do a hybrid approach. Have many unenterable buildings and generic NPCs. But I’m not sure that’s a good idea. That’d make things look bigger, but it wouldn’t really be that much more content and it’d kinda waste our time in traveling to the good stuff. Or they could scale things down. They don’t actually need to span an entire province. They could have focused entirely on one city and surrounding area. But it does come at the cost of more limited lore options and a less varied map.
Personally, I like the Skyrim cities. They’re flawed, but very fun. Not a lot of games have the level of NPC detail that Skyrim has and none of them have the kind of massive, open world that Skyrim and Fallout have (I’d love more games like those).
The sad thing is enterable buildings is pretty achievable. They could have an algorithm to generate a generic interior based on a seed at the time that the player enters the building. It’s not exciting, and it would add complexity but it at least would make enterable buildings without massively impacting install size nor save size.
You can play with procedural generated cities and structures here for example to see the potential. Just imagine that instead of a top down map it generates an interior with generic furniture, clutter and possibly loot. Add in different sets of assets it fills in with based on building type and location and verify it generates the same interior every time it gets the same seed and you have a very efficient system for at least being able to enter every random boring building
Alternatively there is a gameplay argument to be made for only being able to enter buildings that actually do something gameplay-wise so you know what buildings you need to enter
Navigating Qeynos and Freeport before maps were made, accidentally attacking your guild master and adding your corpse to the pile by falling off of Kelethin bridges due to lag were a right of passage.
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