I completely understand how overcluttered and distracting some HUDs can become. I have found however that fully HUDless experiences tend to be more of a novelty than an increase in immersion.
If I’m playing a shooter and don’t have information on, say how many magazines I have, I find that more distracting than immersive. In real life I could quickly pat my vest to know. A HUD can be a replacement for information that seems intuitive to have because in a real situation we’d have kinesthetic feedback.
Basic information like health while injured is simply too useful. Realistically my health isn’t defined by a single variable bar nor is it restored instantly from a grievous wound by a using a syringe, so I find that seeing the bar is useful for succeeding in the game even if it is equally as unrealistic.
Something like the iHUD mod for modern Fallout games is my ideal HUD. It is modular and I can define what information I see, what information I don’t, and for how long the information I do get stays on the screen. Health can be set to only show at certain thresholds, the compass directions or map markers can be disabled unless I ask to see them briefly. Other elements similarly made optional.
I’ve played fully HUDless in both Metro games and in modded STALKER games, and each time I do I find myself going back to having at least a minimal informative HUD.
I don’t hate HUDs and I think most people who try HUDless don’t actually hate them either. What is hated are obnoxious tool tips, flashy HUD animations, and floating intrusive quest markers. If UX designers do their jobs right, people don’t know they did anything at all.
I think you hit the nail on the head, give me what I need to know when I need it, and make it more environmental when possible. Halo for example had the assault rifle show the ammo count on the gun itself and other games have as well, there are countless other ways to give information organically to the player.
There are diegetic elements like that, but also how the non-diegetic HUD delivers information.
When is it giving information? Is it giving me information I don’t actually need at the moment. For example a first person game that always has a compass or minimap. Maybe I want those sometimes, but do I want them always?
What are the visuals of the HUD like? Are they easy to read? Are they distracting? HUDs that have stretched and difficult at a glance fonts are a bad idea to me. Simple fonts that can be read against a variety of background colors are seemingly underdesigned to many UX designers, but it’s all I want sometimes.
Do HUDs have needlessly animated elements? Sometimes just putting a plain and simple number or bar on a screen is enough, but many games add so many artistic flourishes that it gets in the way of the game visuals.
HALO CE had its shield bar with the little health dots underneath. Technically diegetic, but obviously a gameplay element. It wasn’t distracting, it was clean and easy to read, it gave information that was constantly relevant.
I much prefer a compass to a mini-map, for me the mini-map is the worst offender in terms of pulling my attention constantly into one corner of the screen. Halo’s motion sensor was good in that sense too, I’d check it but not constantly.
Both Zelda BotW and TotK have the option for a “PRO” HUD mode which only shows certain elements of the HUD at the right time.
It makes exploration so much more fun when you’re not (if not subconsciously) navigating with the minimap instead of the environment in front of your eyes.
+1 for Battlefield 1. That game nailed the cinematic experience and without a HUD it’s turned up to 11.
Have you played heists in GTA5 in first person without a HUD? It becomes a completely different game!
I never forgot the woman who asked me to look for her husband, I found him, dead, killed by bandits. She was in tears, saying life would never be the same.
Five minutes later I sold her stuff, and she was like “Nice weather today, isn’t it?”.
That killed every immersion at that moment.
It was Skyrim. It has fantastic moments, but there are lots of moments that kill every immersion it built up on a grand scale.
Like I kinda get what you mean but stuff like physics glitches and weird moments like your described just make me laugh.
Even in a serious situation like a grand epic battle the sight of a deceased character model slowly vibrating before launching into the cosmos is hilarious to me.
Or in your case a widow who’s heartbroken and sobbing then the cutscene ends and she’s just “hi how can I help you today?” in a cheerful tone and I just burst out laughing
Immersion is one aspect, but I also find that artists put so much work into creating great visuals, it almost feels like I’m ignoring the great things to look at by chasing dots on a map. I really just want experiences that help me focus more on the world in front of me.
It maybe works better as "suspension of disbelief", like in other fiction. You sustain it and you can go very abstract. You break it and things get weird.
I don’t think it’d be possible to trick me into thinking I’m not playing a video game. You can have 0 UI, and I’ll still know I’m looking at a screen and pushing buttons. Maybe way off in the future when VR has gotten a lot better, sure, probably.
I think it's less about being "tricked" into believing you aren't actually playing a game, and more along the lines of having the mindset that you are actually playing as your character. It's more like the difference between performing tasks, going from A to B, and checking boxes on a list, versus actually feeling like you're going on an adventure.
I didn't say anything about actually believing you are the character. Immersion doesn't have anything to do with deception and is more about being engrossed or deeply involved with something. You can be immersed in other things too, like a tv show, book, or tabletop game.
Sorry, when you said “have the mindset that you are the character”, that came across to me as believing you are the character. Also, I have been told in the past by people who care about immersion that that is what immersion is, so I’m still trying to grasp what it actually is.
I’m also struggling to see having a UI hurts immersion, especially since, as you say, reading a book is immersion, and a book is all text. I’m wondering, also, if maybe different people mean different things when they talk about immersion.
What is or isn't immersive is subjective, for sure. As far as a UI goes, some people may think that having a UI with too many elements or taking up too much space can detract from actually experiencing the game and its environments.
VR is decent enough that you can get lost in the game as is. Even if momentarily, like trying to kick the ball while playing ping pong and it falls near you
People get immersed in different ways. Some people get involved in the story, putting themselves in the character’s shoes and imagining it’s a real world. Some people get lost in the gameplay, enjoying the mechanics and focusing entirely on completing the challenge. For some people it’s TV, film, books, or just chatting at the pub and losing track of time. I’m sure you get immersed in something!
I’m on your side a bit, I mean, I hate getting lost, for me that ain’t immersion, having a HUD or being able to look beyond your usual sight scope is awesome and one of the best features of the videogames which are an escape of our mostly boring life.
With that being said, the other day I was playing BOTW (with HUD) in handheld mode in pitch dark (late night) with my headphones put on and I felt totally immersed more than when I play on my 50 inch TV, IDK, it just helps you to isolate in Hyrule that way I think.
I've been working through my first playthrough of Cyberpunk 2077 - it's fairly enjoyable, I'm glad I ignored it outright until well after big patches rolled out. There's something very satisfying about blowing up enemies through a camera.
I've also picked up Dwarf Fortress (Steam) for the first time. It has a lot of depth but has been fun to learn and try and figure out. I just flooded a section of my fortress by digging into an underground river.
My chill-out puzzle game has been Can of Wormholes and it's pretty fun! It's weird for sure... but definitely fun.
Bungie gave me some of the best gaming childhood memories.
So much Halo. I was obsessed with it as a kid. The gameplay, the story… It was a SciFi gaming masterpiece. Super fond memories.
I’m also a HUGE fan of classic Marathon and Pathways Into Darkness. People don’t give these games the credit they are due, and everyone should play them. You can find the Alephone engine, open-sourced by Bungie, and play all of the Marathon games and community scenarios completely free. A well-respected community member even ported Pathways to the engine.
Depends on people’s age! I was beyond childhood when that came out, but it was a game changer for me getting to play a FPS that was couch co-op. All FPS games to that point were mostly (all?) multiplayer competitive. PvE was always a solo experience until then!
This sounds more like you’re trying to justify buying new hardware, or are really bad at optimizing settings/have completely unrealistic expectations for visual fidelity.
A good CPU upgrade here would cost like $150-200, hardly a lot given the cost of the games OP listed. The best they could go for being the 5800X3D, it's still a gaming powerhouse and a great upgrade for users on AM4.
There's only so much you can do to squeeze performance from years old hardware, upgrading is an eventual need you have to consider.
Obviously upgrading is fine and dandy, though also it might imply a motherboard upgrade too and such. I’m not saying upgrading is useless or anything, it’s just good to have options without shelling out for the best hardware just to be able to play unoptimized games that run like trash. Maybe you’re content with how your computer runs and you don’t want to upgrade just to play a couple of games.
Keep in mind that if you upgrade your computer, then you still need to buy the games.
I think it's safe to assume OP is not a pirate, given they mentioned both game pass and a sale :D
They are in a good spot for a CPU upgrade, with the socket being the same, they can jump 3 generations of CPUs for a drastic uplift in performance as it's bottlenecking their GPU atm. It's the most cost-effective part in this case as they wouldn't need to upgrade their motherboard at all, perhaps just a new cooler depending on what they have already.
To be honest I tunnel visioned in my argument and forgot to read the current specs of OP 😄 But I was trying to apply my argument for people in general, not just OP.
A CPU upgrade isn't going to help with the issues they described. The games are just not optimized properly. Even people with high end, current hardware are having the same issues
This game was memorable and phenomenal. However, I don’t think I would have enjoyed it nearly as much if I’d known the massive spoiler in your comment. It looks like you tried to tag it or something, but it’s still showing up in plain text on lemmy.
Dear Esther stuck with me in a profound way. It was my gateway to a whole new genre. It broke my brain a little, as i initially tried to explore every nook and cranny of the boundaries of each area. The game grinds to a halt if you play that way. To any newcomer, just stay on or near the paths, and let the story unfold. There are no hidden chests or discoverables - just an incredible narration through memories and questions, and a chilling ost.
Removed. Apologies, I didn’t know it was visible, my client listed it as hidden text. I guess lemmy still needs to work on standardizing text formatting :/
Thanks a ton. I saw some other comments with spoilers flagged that were working, but they weren’t indented in block quotes, if it helps. I suck at markdown stuff, so that’s the best I can guess for troubleshooting.
I’ve tried some other games to try find a similar experience to Esther, but the quality of DE has proven to be rather rare.
What Remains of Edith Finch was similarly evocative, in many ways. I want to try The Unfinished Swan at some point, as a follow-up.
Leviathan was one that couldn’t click with me. I hate blaming the voice acting, because he certainly had the chops, so I’m guessing he wasn’t directed to be a sympathetic narrator, so much. I won’t say more, but I think they were just going in a different direction/vibe in that game.
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