There’s very little constructive discussion to be had about this, if any.
Civility is one thing, but there’s not really anything to debate here. What complexities?
The mod’s only function was to hide an options menu. Its only purpose is to hide the fact that other people might wanna choose something else than the default, it literally did nothing else.
It didn’t add any option.
If it added any option at all, like to replace pronouns in dialogues with your character’s name or anything that’d be something else but it’s not.
I doubt that mod was made in good faith, but I don’t really care either way to be honest.
I’m not triggered by that mod’s existence, nor by its removal because it’s all mostly outage bait.
That other poster knew that was going to be a dumpster fire before they hit the button to post.
I honestly doubt this one is meant to do any better.
I understand your perspective on the mod and its likely intent. My original aim was not to discuss the mod per se, but to explore how moderation decisions are made. If we can’t have an open debate, it becomes difficult to understand where we draw the line on what is or isn’t acceptable content.
Shouldn’t users have the liberty to tailor their gaming experiences according to their personal preferences, especially in a game known for its moddability? It’s also important to note that not everyone who might use such a mod is necessarily doing so with the intent of exclusion.
“Why should it be removed?”
Because it hurts real people.
“But shouldn’t people be able to modify the game as they want?”
Sure, they can do it themselves, but no one has to host content that causes real-world harm.
“But why draw the line at this mod?”
See answer 1.
Ya know, I love it when people like you use “civil discussion” as a mask, because it’s always the most transparent thing ever. Your real goals are always on your sleeve, but you just keep pushing the same things over and over again so that, in the end, you can say “Look, I was civil, they weren’t!”
Do you know what gives you away? It’s the way no answer you ever receive is satisfactory. It’s never enough. And it’s usually cyclical, too, which is exactly the behavior you’ve displayed here.
First, the mod in question is not adding a new feature to the game but removing an existing one, a fundamental difference when discussing user agency in customization. If someone finds this feature unappealing or unnecessary, they might opt for its removal via the mod, thus tailoring the game to their preferences. This is in the spirit of game moddability, which celebrates personalization.
Second, the concept that ‘no answer I ever receive is satisfactory’ misconstrues the purpose of engaging in discourse. Discussion is not a box to be checked off but a mechanism for deeper understanding. If the answers received were universally satisfactory, the discourse would be stagnant, wouldn’t it?
Lastly, if a mod does not align with one’s values, the solution is straightforward: do not download it. The presence of such a mod doesn’t mandate its use. Assigning a single motive to all users of a mod is not just an oversimplification but also an assumption that does not stand up to scrutiny. Therefore, as we engage in this dialogue, let’s not make broad generalizations but aim for a nuanced understanding.
Claim whatever motivations you want, but reading through this series of comments does a great job of showing everyone your real motivation. You are not here for rational discussion of moderation policy. Your trying to argue that bigoted materials should be allowed.
I can’t stop looking at this train wreck. But ima try.
There cannot and should not be balanced and open discussion on this issue. You cannot “polite” your way into finding a way to say that non-binary people are not legitimate.
This is paradox-of-tolerance stuff. Maintaining an inclusive community requires being intolerant of intolerance.
The existence of non-binary people does not hurt you.
Insisting on finding ways to deny that they exist hurts them.
While the concerns you’ve raised resonate with many, it’s worth remembering JFK’s words, ‘Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.’ As a society, we must consider the nuance that exists in any debate, even one as sensitive as this. Open discussion should serve as a mechanism to understand what defines intolerance and how to appropriately combat it, rather than shutting down dialogue altogether.
Jaki kraj taki pirat. Mistrz MBA, zarządza, w radach nadzorczych zasiada i zarządach też NGO tajemnymi, “społecznik”. Okazuje się, że niektórzy posłowie Konfederacji są lobbystami rządu chińskiego a tu Pan jest lobbystą Polskiego Holdingu Nieruchomości. Nic nadzwyczajnego, taki mamy klimat. Wiele innych osób poselskich, tylko lepiej się kryje.
You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nr, nr, nr.” By 1968 you can’t say “nr”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nr, nr.”
Republican strategist Lee Atwater.
Atwater’s point here is that dogwhistles work, and they’ve been a core strategy of regressive bigots for decades.
Today’s hateful bigots understand that they can’t openly say “I want to legislate trans people out of existence, even if that means they all die.” So they engage in layers of abstraction, and wrap their abstractions up in leftist talking points. They claim to be defenders of “free speech” even as they support laws that empty out libraries of books, remove shows from television or make discussion of anything LGBTQ related impossible online.
So to you, the innocent rube, removing a pronoun selection from a game might not sound like an attack on trans people, but it very much is. The mod was a rallying cry, a call to fellow bigots to express themselves while pointedly saying to every trans person watching “You are not safe. We are here, we hate you, and we want to erase your existence.”
The existence of the pronoun selector impacted them in absolutely no way, shape, or form. There was nothing to be gained from its removal other than the statement it made, the proud declaration of their hatred encoded in a language of abstraction that made it visible only to their allies and their targets.
And the fact that they can get away with this; the fact that they can openly torment their chosen victims while the average idiot pats them on the head and calls them a “victim of censorship”… That’s their favourite part.
I understand the concept of dog whistles and the historical usage of coded language to advance certain agendas. My primary concern here is not the mod itself, but rather how moderation decisions are made and the criteria used. If we can’t openly discuss these topics, it’s hard to determine what is or isn’t acceptable. I’m not advocating for intolerance; I’m advocating for clarity in community guidelines.
Starfield on my Xbox Series S. I just love it. It’s finally the perfect No Man’s Sky. Kind of. With more story, even better graphics, a fantastic score and so on and so on. Just waiting for 60fps
The Crew Motorfest Demo on my Xbox Series S. It’s okay. Would be waaaay better without the Tearing problems. Waiting for patch. If they get rid of the Tearing problem I’ll buy it.
I mean, I played it. I liked it. Depends on your personal choice. I liked everything. From Graphics to Story to Gameplay. Clumsy at times, but didn’t bother me much.
I could not bring myself to finish Starfield. Such an old feeling generic janky game. Fucking fast travel simulator. They didnt even bother to fix the NPC faces. Like 5% technical improvements since Fallout 4.
Fuck that expensive crap.
Also looking forward to the Cyberpunk update.
Now maybe I can enjoy it. Love that world but I think I had every bug at release.
CP2077 was always an outstanding game to me, with flaws, but still outstanding from the start. Starfeld however… why is it 70€, it should cost 30€ then it would probably be worth it.
Damn I’m glad I bought AC6 at launch instead of Starfield, unlike half my friends lol. Pretty sure one of them got a save breaking bug on the same night I beat Balteus 😂😂😂.
I’ll probably still get it, but it’ll be months from now after the modding community has gotten established and the problems have been mostly worked out.
Cyberpunk 2077 suffered from over-promising as well as people expecting things that also were never going to happen. Some of the other issues on launch like police and people were really only noticeable under certain playstyles. I had 100%'d the game by around 1.3 or 1.4 (and I took my time) and had very few bugs, all quest ones easily solved, and while there were some shortcomings with the game it was very few. Mostly, the ending. I just don’t like finishing a game and being put back into my last save with the quest still active. I don’t really if the ending makes it not make sense canonically… Other than that, my main issue was a bit in regards to end-game perspective. Once you complete all the quests, you’re effectively no longer able to be a passenger anywhere. No metro system (can be modded in though) and no taxi and no friends, just me driving around, unlike the rest of the game where I was just a passenger watching the city. I can’t drive dude, I’ll get a relic attack and kill us (plus I wanna get stoned to Night City). There was a cool mod for cruise control though, which somewhat solved my issue.
I recently loaded up my save just to see how it’s running and I’m glad to see it’s even better than it had been, though still not much for me to do lol. What I think I’m most excited for is once PL releases the game is officially complete. Modders hopefully will come to finish their mods and the game can truly be the best it could be. It doesn’t have the extent of Skyrim modding but it’s got a lot of potential. No more patches breaking things :)
All in all I had a great experience with 2077 on a 2070 -> 3080, though I didn’t following the marketing past the E3 release video so the only thing I missed was wall-climbing with the Mantis Blades. I got my Spider-Man (rope-swing) mod and that’s good enough for me.
I first played Cyberpunk after 1.3 came out so I never had that early bad experience so many did (I only ran into one major bug, blocking progression in one sidequest). It was also my first introduction to anything in the Cyberpunk setting so I didn’t know what to expect, but I quickly fell in love with it. Even without Phantom Liberty, I’m sure I still have a half dozen major sidequests on top of the nomad origin story that I haven’t done yet.
I’m pumped for this, especially after being a bit disappointed in Starfield. I’m ready for graphics that pop again, the amazing facial animations, the fluid combat, and more Cherami Leigh. Hell, I’m ready to hear the character creator music again, lol.
The pronoun mod took away pronoun choices. It was created by an obvious transphobe, and Nexus got rid of it because they have no patience for obvious transphobes.
See, so many of the things below I can think of about games I was addicted to but wasn’t really enjoying. Like, if I’m hearing the music while I fall asleep? That’s a sign I’ve been playing it a crap load, but I also can think of many games that sucked me in chasing carrots and kept me up until dawn… but the actual fun parts were fleeting.
Games I actually enjoy have me grinning like a maniac once I start getting into top-tier flow with the actions available, like threading needles in a racing game.
I feel like the person posting that in the first place was not really acting in good faith - with as highly politicized as the topic is, and with how much people genuinely care about it given the way people’s rights to just live have been so quickly taken away, posting that was basically lobbing a grenade to watch what happens. It couldn’t just be an innocuous post because by nature of what it was, it wasn’t innocuous, and there was no way to not know that. People were going to get angry and the comment section was, very predictably, both here and in the Starfield comm it was cross posted to, going to turn into a dumpster fire. It felt like, to me, that the OP had an ax to grind, and that came out in their replies to people who were upset. It was by nature an incendiary post, and got incendiary reactions.
The recent exchange surrounding that post has raised serious concerns about the quality of discourse on this platform. Rather than engaging in reasoned debate to dissect the complexities of the issue, many participants seem to resort to inflammatory rhetoric. This unfortunate trend undermines the very purpose of a discussion forum and has led me to reconsider my continued participation here.
It is meaningless to engage in bad faith discussions. Are you aware of the paradox of tolerance? Tolerating intolerance only serves the purposes of the intolerant, while the tolerant get pushed aside (which could mean anything from disenfranchisement to death)
Therefore, the tolerant must be intolerant towards intolerance.
There exists no good faith or tolerant argument in which removing pronouns makes sense, it is at its base a message of intolerance.
There are no complexities and no discussions to be had, you are either intolerant yourself, or naïve, if you think this is a topic that can be discussed.
The intent of my original post was not to advocate for intolerance, but to question how moderation decisions are made, especially when there appears to be inconsistency. In doing so, I hoped to promote reasoned debate on that specific issue, not to engage in bad faith discussions.
While I understand that certain topics may be inherently fraught, the objective was to consider how platform moderation intersects with issues of free choice and community standards. That said, if the prevailing consensus is that some subjects are too divisive for productive discourse, then that too is a topic worth discussing.
I’m kind of curious to here about Nexus’ inconsistency. As far as I can tell they’ve been pretty consistent if the mod gets their attention. There was a Spider-Man mod that removed a pride flag, and Nexus removed that too. That feels consistent to me.
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