pcgamer.com

SkunkWorkz, (edited ) do games w EU tax officials confront the most pressing legal question of our time: If you sell RuneScape gold to someone and they use it to buy a magic sword, do you still have to pay taxes?

Yeah seems like the writer of the PC Gamer article doesn’t understand what VAT is.

To laymen like you and I, this situation probably seems pretty open and shut. If you make money on something, you pay taxes on it.

Yeah VAT is not a tax on money made. VAT is a tax that is applied to a transaction for goods and service between a business and a consumer. VAT is a tax that the consumer pays. The business only collects it and has the obligation to pay it to the tax services. So even if a business makes zero profit they still need to pay the VAT they collected.

The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.

MBech,

If Runescape gold is legal tender, do I have to pay taxes on my earnings from my Zulrah grind?

SkunkWorkz,

Probably income tax or a gambling tax like what you’d pay if you win money one a game show. But there is a threshold, so tax free for small earnings.

commiunism,

Yeah, that’s why they added the GE tax

brsrklf,

The question here was if RuneScape gold is a product or if it is legal tender. If it was legal tender then you don’t pay VAT on it, similar to when if you trade one currency to another VAT is not applied.

Even if they went that way (good luck with that), doesn’t that mean farming gold regularly and for profit should still be registered as a professional activity? Or at least the result of it declared as revenue?

I don’t think they want that.

SkunkWorkz,

Of course he still needs to pay income tax. But that’s something else from VAT.

Dyskolos,

Speaks greatly for the quality of pcgamer. Guess the schools in the USA aren’t the very best.

mushroomman_toad,

to be fair, I don’t think any US state has VAT.

Dyskolos,

AFAIK they do? Different even in every state.

elephantium,
@elephantium@lemmy.world avatar

Many US states have sales tax, but I don’t think it counts as VAT.

Dyskolos,

Ah right, just a sales-tax. I should’ve shut up 😁

Thorry,

The real genius behind VAT is that it isn’t just applied to transactions between business and consumer, but to all transactions. The rule is normally very simple, it’s applied to all transactions, with few exceptions. The rate can vary, but those rules are also usually very simple. The trick is: When a business has a transaction with another business, VAT is still applied, but the selling party has to levy the tax and forward it to the government and the purchasing party can ask the government to give back the tax they paid on the transaction.

This may seem a bit convoluted, where the tax goes through the government only to end up back in the business. But this ensures the tax is applied always. Normally a profitable company would sell their products for more than the components they purchased. The difference between these two is the value added. And by getting back less from the purchases as what they have to pay for sales, the tax is only applied to the value added. And for consumers it functions as a sales tax, being applied to all transactions and no way around it.

This system is way harder to mess with than any other form of sales tax. The rules are simple with few exceptions and thus very easy to reinforce. It’s also a more fair system, where each party in the chain pays a part instead of the consumer paying for all of it.

In the end the consumer pays most, but as the taxes are supposed to be used to make their lives better, it seems like a fair deal? Now if you have a government that’s more about filling their own pockets than actually doing what they need to do to improve the lives of the people living there, well then you are going to have a bad day. But that doesn’t happen in civilized countries right?

Tetsuo,

VAT fraud is harder but my god when some people achieved it they pretty much unlocked a money spawn glitch IRL…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_trader_fraud?wprov=…

Thorry,

Yeah EU VAT opened up a whole can of issues. It’s super complicated and annoying, with all sorts of weird exceptions. The exact opposite of what VAT was supposed to be. EU countries should have just gotten their shit together instead of this patch work.

I’ve actually seen that fraud in action. People used to ship around huge amounts of phones and CPUs, because they were high value, but took up very little room. A truck full of pallets of tray CPUs could be worth a huge amount.

I think now most of the holes are patched. But for a while there were special rules surrounding phones and CPUs just because they were often used in the fraud scheme.

ordnance_qf_17_pounder, do games w EU tax officials confront the most pressing legal question of our time: If you sell RuneScape gold to someone and they use it to buy a magic sword, do you still have to pay taxes?

Can I get taxed if I buy a gf for 25k?

SkunkWorkz, (edited )

Yeah you pay VAT because you are buying a service. But your “gf” has to collect it and pay it to the tax agency.

meldrik,

You don’t pay VAT on a personal transaction though. But the girlfriend would probably have to pay income tax.

daniskarma,

We should know if the gf is selling herself as a second hand sale or if it’s a recurring economic activity. If so, she should register in VAT and collect it.

(Legality of that economic activity may differ by country)

ViatorOmnium,

Depending on the country, and depending on the gift, yes. Though it’s mostly not enforced.

Gonzako, do games w EU tax officials confront the most pressing legal question of our time: If you sell RuneScape gold to someone and they use it to buy a magic sword, do you still have to pay taxes?

Damn, good use of their time! Not going after trillionaries, no.

truthfultemporarily, do games w EU tax officials confront the most pressing legal question of our time: If you sell RuneScape gold to someone and they use it to buy a magic sword, do you still have to pay taxes?

This is actually really interesting!

This taxable individual, Kokott explains, was found to have bought and resold through “various forums, groups, and platforms such as Facebook, Discord, and Skype” enough RuneScape gold to earn €415,484—approximately $488,000 USD—between 2021 and 2023.

They then were ordered to backpay VAT because they made above 45k. Defendant says trading virtual currencies is like trading crypto, and VAT exempt. Government says its like selling a voucher instead.

Its corner cases like this one that make taxes complicated for regular people.

I also find it hilarious that tax lawyers and accountants will have to read that court decision.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Shit, sounds like I should set up some runescape bots to sell gold, even if I only get like 10k USD a year, that’s doubling my income

DoucheBagMcSwag, do games w The untold story of SiN Episodes involves freeway chases, electrical cannons, a nude Elexis, and a whole lotta penises

So we’re not getting SiN Reloaded are we

Evil_Shrubbery, (edited ) do games w The untold story of SiN Episodes involves freeway chases, electrical cannons, a nude Elexis, and a whole lotta penises

I member! <3
I was there, I loved the original game too.

And I’m still sad we didn’t get more episodes.
Fascinating read, thx for sharing.

Lol, I even posted on their forums on the day Elexis was born (the game is set in the future).

ampersandrew, do games w The untold story of SiN Episodes involves freeway chases, electrical cannons, a nude Elexis, and a whole lotta penises
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Fascinating story. The narrative at the time was that casual games were just too lucrative to bother with SiN sequels after Emergence, but of course, the truth has a lot more nuance.

ArcaneSlime, do gaming w Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 is richly authentic, intriguingly written, dripping with brooding atmosphere, and… not very fun to play, unfortunately

Still want to know if there’s any characters named Vesago in this game, if anyone finds him lmk!

BuboScandiacus, (edited ) do gaming w Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 is richly authentic, intriguingly written, dripping with brooding atmosphere, and… not very fun to play, unfortunately
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

Ah yes

Waiting for the unofficial patch then, true to VTMB1

A personnal opinion: I feel that this game might become one of my all-time favorites, considering that CybP77 is already part of that group. It being a game, that if described as having simply an “amazing atmosphere and cyberpunk world”, would be blatantly undervalued as it is the best in that regard, second to none, with additionaly very good writing and… not so great combat… The description given by the journalist describes perfectly the cyberpunk 2077 combat system too; some tactics/ cyberware (disciplines) are to annoying or hard to use to be effective and others are just instant win buttons (looking at you sandevistan (celerity)).

I’m optimistic for the moment, but we’ll see.

JohnEdwa,

One of the best builds to make CP2077 absolutely horrible to play is stealth + tech weapons. You spend all of you time crouched behind boxes, first trying akwardly to sneak your way in, and then shooting through them with the wallhack weapons.

Meanwhile other players clear the same mission in 45 seconds looking like the worlds biggest action hero badass with sandevistan and katanas and hacks and shit :D

BuboScandiacus,
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

Hacks is pretty much the same early game

Stealth is just bad overall, like in most games where it isn’t the main way to do things, as both the player playing stealthily and the one playing like rambo must be able to complete the mission and earn the same rewards

BurgerBaron, (edited ) do gaming w Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 is richly authentic, intriguingly written, dripping with brooding atmosphere, and… not very fun to play, unfortunately
@BurgerBaron@piefed.social avatar

I checked Robin’s site profile to make sure she wasn’t one of the people who thought Dragon Age Veilguard had good writing first thing. Nope that was Lauren, my bad.

Still doubt it but I’m hopeful now. I play all the higher rated low budget Choose Your Own Adventure text adventures/VN Masquerade games on Steam.

That said, I’ll find it pretty funny if the combat is truly as bad as it was in the first Bloodline game. I like Redemption best, and if I can get through that gameplay steamer I can get through this…probably not at launch price.

Rose,

I believe the developer has practically no experience with action games, so the combat being subpar wouldn’t be unexpected. I definitely wouldn’t be playing a WoD game for its combat though. I’d want a good story, characters, and the right aesthetics.

wesker, do gaming w Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 is richly authentic, intriguingly written, dripping with brooding atmosphere, and… not very fun to play, unfortunately
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I fucking knew it. This whole wait.

kurcatovium,
@kurcatovium@piefed.social avatar

Come on, it’s one persons opinion. Let me believe a little longer.

Rose,

People put too much hope into it. Personally, as a big WoD fan, I don’t care if it’s mediocre or worse. Thanks to Paradox, there have been many new games of the universe, so it wouldn’t be much of a loss. I don’t mind them being text-based either. It’s a lot better than nothing, which is how it was for many years.

If you’re looking for a fix of Bloodlines, just play the last Deus Ex games if you haven’t. They’re the same thing but without vampires.

mlg, do games w Nintendo reportedly gets even more obnoxious about patent law by taking a 'mods aren't real games' stance against a Dark Souls 3 mod that could invalidate its Palworld lawsuit
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Team Fortress was a quake mod

Half Life used a modded version of the quake engine

Counter Strike was a Half Life mod

L4D was a Counter Strike mod

Gary’s Mod is literally just a game revolving around you modding the Source Game Engine

Seems legit Nintendo.

dual_sport_dork, (edited )
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Here’s one that’ll hit them closer to home: The original Donkey Kong is literally a mod for the earlier Radar Scope cabinets. Nintendo had better hope they don’t wind up with any video game nerds in any juries or they’re going to open a can of worms on themselves that they really don’t want to have wriggling all over their lap.

MoreZombies, do games w Nintendo reportedly gets even more obnoxious about patent law by taking a 'mods aren't real games' stance against a Dark Souls 3 mod that could invalidate its Palworld lawsuit

If mods aren't real games, can we reverse the cease and desists for all the fan mods they've killed? After all, if they aren't real games and aren't to be considered legally for patent/trademark/copyright then they aren't violating anything?

markovs_gun, do games w Nintendo reportedly gets even more obnoxious about patent law by taking a 'mods aren't real games' stance against a Dark Souls 3 mod that could invalidate its Palworld lawsuit

I honestly think it’s absurd you can be doing something for nearly 30 years (longer than a patent lasts) and then try to get a patent on it retroactively. That seems like a completely insane cheat code for the patent process.

Bronzebeard, do games w Nintendo reportedly gets even more obnoxious about patent law by taking a 'mods aren't real games' stance against a Dark Souls 3 mod that could invalidate its Palworld lawsuit

“I want to control an idea I came up with, but that person who came up with that idea first doesn’t count”

Is an insane argument

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