I know your question is likely rhetorical, but for the same reason. They improved on it enough to drown out the bad press and turn people’s opinions.
I think that both games are good games, and they’re both fun. They had to meet unrealistic release expectations both internally and externally so had a terrible experience at launch. There’s clearly more money in fixing the product and improving public opinion though, so they did.
I think people often forget that many games are the product of a really significant amount of people working for a significant amount of time, and that both the company paying them and the people working would like money to go in instead of out.
Selling entertainment/art is sometimes self contradicting.
Demons Roots is probably the best RPG Maker game I’ve played that was actually playable as an RPG. (So, not counting things like To The Moon which other people have already mentioned.)
I wasn’t a fan of most of the sexual content in Demons Roots, but taking the whole thing as basically a giant love letter to fucked up doujinshi stories – i.e. to unpolished indie writing with wild genre bending plot twists in addition to the hentai stuff – I can accept it for what it is. The game has that RPGMaker wabi-sabi; it’s not especially well-crafted software… but the combat was OK (unlike a lot of indie RPGs), the music was good – a mix of original and mostly well chosen asset packs (I still listen to some of it occasionally!), and, without getting into spoilers, it did a couple of very memorable things…
That dominoes shit makes no sense to me. I’ve tried to look up the rules multiple times online and then I go into the game and try to make a legal move and the game won’t let me.
Pretty confident “Look Outside” is an RPG maker game. I cannot recommend it enough. It is an immaculately written game, and oozes passion and personality.
Because instead of the usual triple a studio promising the moon for sales then delivering a pebble and not giving a shit, it was a guy who got caught up in the hype and handled it badly, and then him and his small studio worked their asses off to make the game justify the price charged. I know it’s hard to drop the cynicism living in the modern world has instilled in us, but I genuinely think it was a collosal fuckup and not malicious, and they ACTUALLY put the time and effort in to deliver the promises they could and a fuckload more atuff that wasn’t. In a day and age of companies lying on purpose for profit and not giving a shit, it’s a breath of fresh air.
That I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but the mythology of redemption through free update is part of being a beta tester for LNF, that’s pragmatism on HG’s part shift their burden to the fans, not a colossal fuck-up as you claimed.
and somehow it wins “Best Ongoing Building” every year.
Except it doesn’t. It’s been nominated for Stream’s Labour of Love award six times in the past ten years, and never won it. In fact it’s never won any Steam Awards. It won Best Ongoing at the Game Awards twice, out of a decade of being ongoing, and it won a similar award from PC Gamer once.
Well that is what lot of devs do, after scamming and getting the quick money and stop working on it. But they kept working for years, still ongoing 10 years after launch. Even with the hate they got and after they got exposed.
Because, as this article that you keep linking says, they already made bank with the broken product in the first place. They could have just taken the money and closed the studio, or at least rebranding and going for the same trick again and again, as so many other actually do. They did not do that, they chose to do the opposite, which was an incredibly bold decision at the time.
You also keep linking another article showing how they made so much money recently, like in 2022, but you forget that this is now, with hindsight. In 2016 just after release, it was more dangerous for them to keep working on a game nobody trusted anymore.
And for the record, I bought NMS in 2022, and liked it okay-ish. It’s far from the best game ever, but arguing like you do that “they only added stuff they said would be in the game in the first place” is clearly fallacious.
Fair enough, I will address that. It’s a commendable act…in the game industry, but at the same time, it is the professionalism expected in another industry, which is why I brought up the building analogy in my original post.
To The Moon (XP) is pretty good. The Legend of the Philosopher Stone (RM2K3) is a personal fave although its incomplete and cancelled Final Fantasy Endless Nova (RM2K) is only a FF in name and is also really good.
Then there’s the ones everyone’s talked about; Ara Fell (originally), In and so on
I agree, and a big part of that is that everything they’ve added over the years just feels bolted-on.
I tried to give it a shot a little while back and tried to do one of the things that was initially promised you could do, be a trader. Pretty standard space game fare. Only to find out it’s a pretty pointless and broken experience because the way you do interstellar trade in that game is by putting goods in your pockets and walking through portals that exist in every single space station. You never even get in your ship lol.
The game still just feels like a tech demonstration of a bunch of disparate systems that fail to integrate with eachother in any meaningful way. They’ve made the puddle much wider over the years but their outright refusal to make it any deeper is absolutely nuts.
A redemption arc implies fucking up in the first place and working to rectify the previous mistakes.
They lied and the game was missing a lot of features at launch, but now all those features (and more) are in the game, which is still being updated for free a decade later.
I don’t like the game, and I wish the devs acted differently so that a redemption arc wasn’t needed in the first place, but it is what it is. The devs worked their asses off, the game is now playable and feature complete and is still being updated, and from the looks of it Hello Games have learned from their mistakes and are not promising the moon for their next game.
I mean, if the game is actually good with its common space tropes as their marketing materials, instead of having the need to be culturally reframed into a “chill sandbox”. 10 years of disjointed game mechanics and bugs still implies bad game design.
Instead of completely changing the game into something else, they opted to add features that complement the original gameplay loop, and lots of people love what the game has to offer.
There’s nothing wrong with not liking NMS, and as I said, I don’t like it either, but I wouldn’t say that the game doesn’t fit the promises made just because you don’t like it. From what I remember, they promised a sandbox game with a big universe and tons of planets to explore along with your friends. NMS currently has that, plus base building, ship customization, and more. All these systems are subservient to the main gameplay loop of going to planet -> gathering resources -> building more stuff, but it’s like that for every sandbox game. I don’t like Minecraft and Factorio either, but like, it’s my opinion. NMS never promised a 10 hrs story driven experience and cinematic cutscenes.
Doesn’t fit the promise made was not the argument; shoddily made, then being reframed into something else was the argument, nor was I expecting a “cinematic experience”. And no, I like Minecraft, MC is crystal clear about what it is trying to be: a building game first with an open world and survival element.
I cannot say the same with NMS and its space tropes and exploration loop.
Your argument is that the game doesn’t fit its “space tropes”, but somehow that’s not you having different expectations than what it was actually promised and delivered?
I expect functional dogfights, not simulator like flight model, but something arcady in a space game with functional AI. How is that an unrealistic expectation?
Let’s not even talk about a simulated universe of faction battles, which Sean even mentioned as being in the game.
There are also different factions in the game that the player can interact with and gain/lose reputation. According to the wiki, entertaining relationships with the in-game factions net the following benefits:
Availability of certain blueprints to purchase.
Faction specific dialogue options.
Possibility to start missions, which require a minimum faction standing.
High standing will grant the player aid at times when under attack by pirates.
Discounts on technology modules in Space Stations.
Maybe it’s not as in-depth as you (and I) wish it was, but it’s there already.
Don’t do that? I recently replayed the remastered versions of the old PS1 Final Fantasy games, and they have built-in cheat codes (press left and right stick to turn on God mode). I didn’t do that and played the game normally.
Thanks for proving my point.
You are strangely confrontational for some reason. But anyway, my point was that the game is, and always has been, exploration first, and everything else is complementary to the main gameplay loop. You were setting your expectations up for some sort of grand RPG dogfight game that never was, and are now telling us that it’s HG’s fault.
“Don’t do that?” I didn’t press S to win, they still circle around in an arc. And they can barely kill the player when he is not moving. Is that good dogfighting AI in a space game?
“You are strangely confrontational for some reason.” Because it is a common tactic for NMS fans to claim others have “different expectations”, which you have done twice already.
“exploration first” Precisely, Minecraft started as a building game, NMS started as an open-world sandbox, or is it an aesthetic planetarium? Does that mean expecting good dogfights is unwarranted? Would you please check their original promotional material on what they are selling?
Minecraft started as a building game, NMS started as an open-world sandbox, or is it an aesthetic planetarium? Does that mean expecting good dogfights is unwarranted?
It’s a sandbox exploration/crafting game, not a combat/flight sim game. The survival aspect in Minecraft is barebones and monsters are stupid and useless, so what? Why is Minecraft “crystal clear” about being a “building game with a survival element” but you still insist on NMS being a “space game”? What does space game even mean? Can’t two space games provide different experiences, a different focus on different mechanics, or is good dogfighting a prerequisite to all space games?
Would you please check their original promotional material on what they are selling?
I did. I could count the number of SECONDS space battles featured in their pre-release trailers on one hand. The major focus was always on exploring planets, taking in the sights and gathering resources.
Because it is a common tactic for NMS fans to claim others have “different expectations”, which you have done twice already.
I’m not a NMS fan. I think the game sucked. I hate sandboxes.
“You, however, had different expectations.” Why are you keeping hammering the flight sim angle? Did I say 6 DOF and Newtonian physics? And you wonder I got defensive? xD
“What does space game even mean? Can’t two space games provide different experiences, a different focus on different mechanics, or is good dogfighting a prerequisite to all space games?” Fair enough, then take it out; the abandoned mode should be the default. Everyone is finding combat so bad that it is obnoxious anyway, and I wouldn’t mind for it to become a fantasy planetarium like Space Engine mods. :)
“I’m not a NMS fan. I think the game sucked. I hate sandboxes.” I love them, I can do so much with them, this is not this one, though. Sandbox doesn’t mean there is an excuse for bad mechanics.
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