Grim Dawn is so good. If you have any interest, just go for it. I don’t even play many games like that, and I’ve put tonsss of hours into it now. Super underrated soundtrack too, imo.
The multiplayer is full of ultra skilled people who have played for years, so a steep curve. Best FPS campaign ever though, so I recommend it for that.
I have found that some games like this, sometimes I do really well if only because there is such an established way to do things well that my flailing about catches people off guard. Sometimes not following meta is a shock to expectations. I’ll win by sheer incompetence.
Not paying much attention to early access titles didn’t pay off here. I was unaware of the game until today, and would like to play it, but the dealbreaker is the price; I would pay what they were charging during early access, but not the current price. Guess I’m waiting for a sale, though that means I’ll very likely just forget it exists again.
Ehh can’t speak the for the parent comment but I don’t like spending more than 15 quid on indies unless it’s something I really like the look of. Like I bought stray and kena full price but I haven’t bought this when I’m not a survival fan so not sure if I’ll enjoy it despite it seeming like a good game.
Appreciate it. I actually found that out earlier today, and I gave it a shot. Tried it for a bit and uninstalled it, but I now know for sure that I would pay $10-15 for it, and no more.
Lol no it’s not, tons of great games are like $25. This game doesn’t have enough to deserve a $35 price tag compared to the rest of the industry and I’m sure sales will reflect that.
It peaked today at just shy of 100k concurrent players following its successful early access period, with about 70k reviews, both of which are indicators that it’s selling extremely well, as well as taking the #4 spot on the top sellers list on Steam.
Fortunately there are enough people who value them more than you, because most games, even moderately budgeted ones, wouldn’t be able to sustain themselves at that price.
“Moderately budgeted” compared to what? Modern AAA game budgets have absolutely exploded and are not sustainable, turning game dev cycles into 5+ year marathons and giving it Hollywood Syndrome where every game needs to be a blockbuster to be considered a success and no risks are able to be taken because of the massive investment each project requires. Do you think that’s sustainable? Or do you think that perhaps things have gone out of control when a $90 price point is being floated, even in conjunction with money printing anti-consumer features like lootboxes?
Let’s say that including benefits, a developer’s salary is about $100k. Maybe a small team of 8 people worked on a game like The Thaumaturge for 3 years. Before you even factor in contract work like voice acting, that would put the development budget at $2.4M. If the game cost $20, they’d have to sell about 120k copies to break even on that investment, which is far from guaranteed. By pricing the game at $35, their break even point is nearly half of that. This is a moderately budgeted game, not a AAA game with microtransactions.
Even an experienced team like Mimimi games, who made smart development choices by iterating on what they built before to keep costs down, releasing critical successes several times in a row, ended up closing down because the money coming in was too tight. Their games ranged from $30-$50 and had every sale, bundle, giveaway, and promotional opportunity you could think of.
8 full time 100k salaried employees is quite a bit more than “small team.” Doom was 6 people. That many people are simply not required to make the games that are being produced; they can choose to size down any time they want. If they want to go “all in” on making a “AAAA” game, then they need to deal with that reality and make a game that is actually worth $60.
Their games ranged from $30-$50 and had every sale, bundle, giveaway, and promotional opportunity you could think of.
Perhaps that’s part of the problem? Maybe they should have priced their works more fairly from the start and not rely on bundles and givaways which surely aren’t going to make them more money.
My point is, the “average” game is absolutely not worth $30. Most games should flop because they’re overproduced trash, and we should return to smaller, more artistic-focused development with a smaller scale, more consumer friendly pricing, and where the (few) devs get more slices of their pie.
I’m sorry that you don’t enjoy video games enough to pay $30 for most of the good ones, but I hope one day you can sit down with a calculator and realize why it must be that way.
I’d gladly pay $30 if they are worth it, most games are simply not worth it. Recently I’ve put over 75 hours into Atom RPG the last two weeks, and it’s $15 full price, and the developers have released a spinoff and announced a new project, so they seem to be doing fine.
Hopefully you can sit down with a calculator and figure out that things can be better.
That’s true, I’m using hours per dollar as a shorthand for value, but on the flip side if video games are going to be a couple hours of one-time fun, they gotta expect to have a price point similar to movie theaters which have a similar experience, which is like $10-$15
Video games are often afraid to be only a couple of hours these days, often to their detriment, but if you multiplied a movie’s runtime by 2-3x for some extra production value in your game, you end up at that $35 price point easily for a game that’s 5-10 hours long. Even for a direct comparison to Atom RPG, I’d rather pay 2-3x as much for a Wasteland game to get what I’m looking for, and Wasteland games aren’t exactly short. Neither is V Rising.
Video games are afraid to be only a couple hours because they are afraid of charging less than $10
If your game is short, doesn’t offer replayability, and doesn’t have any novel gameplay to truly set it apart, then youtube Lets Plays offer real competition of getting basically the whole package.
but if you multiplied a movie’s runtime by 2-3x for some extra production value in your game, you end up at that $35 price point easily for a game that’s 5-10 hours long
That’s making a couple assumptions though, that price point is for large studio releases and non-matinee prices. If I go see a movie on a Tuesday afternoon, it’s only $7, a perfect price for an average small game.
Even for a direct comparison to Atom RPG, I’d rather pay 2-3x as much for a Wasteland game to get what I’m looking for
Atom RPG isn’t exactly a Wasteland game, it leans pretty heavy on classic Fallout, which while inspired by Wasteland, have diverged noticeably in the end product. So if you wanted to get what you’re looking for in this case, Fallout 1 and 2 are $10 each, or you can get a bundle of 1/2 and Brotherhood of Steel for $20 (more like brotherhood of steal amirite).
Video games are afraid to be only a couple hours because they are afraid of charging less than $10
I would love to live in a world where we get FPS campaigns that are about 8 hours long, are fulfilling, and cost $60. That used to be the norm, and we were happy with that. A Let’s Play is not a substitute.
So if you wanted to get what you’re looking for in this case, Fallout 1 and 2 are $10 each, or you can get a bundle of 1/2 and Brotherhood of Steel for $20 (more like brotherhood of steal amirite).
That assumes I don’t care about things like better resolutions and frame rates, voice acting, modern considerations for how people actually interact with games, etc. I’ve also played Fallout 1 already.
Again, “more” is often to the detriment to the value of the game, because adding hours is easy. I’m saying that, on a AAA level, games were worth more to me when they were shorter. We’re currently paying less for more. But at below AAA levels, I’m often served extremely well for $35.
I’m not talking about about adding hours, I’m talking about adding quality.
But at below AAA levels, I’m often served extremely well for $35.
yes, good games exist at that price point, but the average game is not good, and is not worth that.
You mention things like better resolutions, better frame rates, better voice acting, more modern, more better, etc, but none of those things are what makes games good or worth more money. AAA games with cutting edge graphics and star-studded voice acting are not automatically good games, and in fact it frequently has an inverse effect where focusing so much time and money on stuff other than the game leaves a shitty game that will be forgotten about in months; that would absolutely not be worth $30, despite having all your superfluous qualities
No, they don’t automatically make a game better, but if I’m choosing between two games that are similar in themes or mechanics, I’m leaning toward the one with voice acting and better presentation. That’s worth extra money to me. It’s far easier to retain story elements when they’re acted out. Production value is still value. Not only did I get a killer RPG for $60 in Baldur’s Gate 3, but I also got some killer performances to help sell it. That extra production value is worth extra money. I could play the previous two Baldur’s Gates for pennies on the dollar, and I did, but I would certainly say I got more value out of the game that costs more. In V Rising’s case, I know of no other action RPG/loot games that have been combined with survival games in this way, playing with independent movement and aiming instead of mouse pointers, so that’s worth the money to see. I think we’re done here, but your sense of value is just very strange.
The average movie isnt worth ticket price either IMO, and length certainly doesn’t equal quality.
And I’d certainly say “most games” are absolutely not worth it, as the majority of games are simply lacking in terms of inspiration, innovation, compelling gameplay or story, or anything else to set it apart and give me a reason to play.
The worth of a thing is determined by what people will pay for it.
length certainly doesn’t equal quality.
For any single product that’s true, statistically it makes the two classes (games and movies) comparable.
I don’t think you’ll earnestly want to argue that 1 hour of movie entertainment is in general worth multiple hours of gaming entertainment. There are good and bad movies and games, but if you compare those of similar quality, the fact stands that the game will give you more for your money. Whether you want more of course depends on you - I gather that gaming doesn’t seem to really entertain you for the most part.
The worth of a thing is determined by what people will pay for it.
No, that’s how price is determined, not worth.
I don’t think you’ll earnestly want to argue that 1 hour of movie entertainment is in general worth multiple hours of gaming entertainment
Depends on the movie and depends on the game. Some games with lots of content are good (if they’re well made), others are filled with trash content that is a waste of time to go through. Same with movies, there are some fantastic 75 minute cinematic experiences, and there are some that drag on for 3+ hours and do not successfully utilize their resources into a good movie. And vice versa.
but if you compare those of similar quality, the fact stands that the game will give you more for your money
If it’s a good game, sure, but we’re talking averages here and the average game is not good, so needing to play even more tedious uninspired levels doesn’t add any value, it in fact just makes it a bigger waste of time.
I gather that gaming doesn’t seem to really entertain you for the most part.
I actually love gaming, and I wish more consumers would have higher standards to not enable the terrible practices of the industry.
I have not, no. I don’t typically open the store page unless I have a specific goal in mind, in which case I do my business directly, and then leave the page.
So, I’m not sure if skyrim is right for this because it’s had a certain modding community built up, and for whatever reason, corporate execs seem to love burning down organic communities with no idea of the damage they’re doing.
However, if a game was built from day 1 to have support for paid mods, I’d probably consider making assets for mods as a side gig, as would a lot of people who work in tech or are budding game developers, because its far less of a commitment than making a full game.
The closest things that do this currently are roblox, which does everything in it’s power to prevent you from withdrawing money from it, and second life, which is near dead and only still going because of furies and perverts.
If a true platform-esque game, like Skyrim or Arma, were to come along with a shop that would let you do things like build a dungeon and charge a dollar for it, that would suddenly look attractive to a lot of people to get involved.
As soon as you started, I knew you were going to mention roblox. I wish they would release an adult version with a different aesthetic, SO BAD. I like LUA, but I will admit they’re pretty predatory with their payments.
If you want a gig like that, costume clothing, furniture, wallpaper and flooring for Sims 4. While there is somewhat of a community thing and the TOS about only having paid early access of a reasonable time, a lot of creatures don’t, and big chunks of the community will bend over backwards to defend it. So if you put out some paid stuff a lot of people will pay for it. If you don’t reales it for free after some time, big parts of the community will be mad at you, but many creators don’t follow that code and you can choose between putting up with it or just release it for free after sometime frame you are comfortable with, community stand is a month but ones again a lot of people don’t follow that and have lots of people buying their stuff.
And also if you just put out relatively good stuff, you will get a huge bonus over other people, even if you are paid only or have longer than community standard times. Because a lot of Sims 4 cc (in the Sims community moded assets are called cc while just mod/mods means gameplay mods) is really bad, with chep asset flips, theft and just really badly looking and functioning stuff and that includes quite a lot of the paid only scene. So you know the bar ain’t that high.
If you want a in game or developer official option, keep an eye on the upcoming Project Rene it’s the next sims game / sims spin off and while it is not confirmed to have paid cc and mods, there is a high likely hood of it.
The issue Valve had with this was that they weren’t willing to do the basic vetting needed to ensure a mod’s content is legitimately owned. For a full game, made from scratch in Unity, that’s not necessarily easier to verify, but the bar for entry (and to making something interesting for viewers) is high enough that a developer can be harshly penalized for breaking it. And of course, it has still happened, wherein a little Superman game is found to have been completely stolen from someone who put it out for free.
When you have a big complete game like Skyrim, and one mod only needs to do something silly like put Thomas the Tank Engine’s face onto a greathammer, it’s a low bar for entry for something some people might actually want, as opposed to shitty Unity asset flips. Still, the storefront needs to be sure that THAT developer owns Thomas’s face (they don’t) and that they put the work into applying it (they might have just pulled files from some obscure Nexus Mods entry and hoped no one noticed).
Ownership verification is tough. I seriously doubt they’re actually putting the time in.
Valve had no issue with it. They went through with the release until the huge backlash when even the most loyal communities, like /r/pcmasterrace, were suddenly all about getting rid of Gabe from the sub banner and building a new client to replace Steam (1, 2). All of Bethesda’s most recent games were getting heavily review bombed on Steam and elsewhere. These things forced Valve to backtrack.
The review bombing was the form of communication used to inform Valve of what I just described. The prime complaints were based around lack of authenticity in many of the mods that first requested payment - many mod authors saw their work stolen and reposted.
But do they need to for the copyright case? Aren’t most pages on internet, like “Here is where you can sent us a DCMA request, we will take it down after checking it”.
Then they don’t need to vet it until there is a request, still that is work not gonna lie but they don’t have to check every single upload stuff, plus they probably would have a report system or similar if the issue isn’t copyright but idk that somebody uploaded something illegal somehow.
Of course maybe I am missing something and there is some laws that require active monitoring of each uploaded stuff.
You’re not totally wrong; they could operate that way, wherein victims of theft would report what people have re-uploaded as their own. But the problem is, this puts the onus of policework entirely on mod operators, who have their own lives and livelihoods. Imagine you wrote a mod as a hobby for four years, spent some time abroad, came home, never heard about the mod workshop stuff, and then discovered that your mod blew up in popularity under someone else’s name. Plus, Valve would need to moderate and figure out who is telling the truth (lest a bad actor make a fake claim on a legitimate mod seller). That kind of situation is often unrecoverable.
You can even read stories about the wars that photographers have over this kind of thing - photos are the kind of thing people pass around like candy, even though some amazing ones take tons of expertise and effort for the photographer to take; they often struggle to get websites and magazines to pay the ad revenue they’re due for each time they’re shown. It’s much like the mod workshop would have been - a very “low friction” environment for reuploads.
As a transgender person and as just a citizen of the world in general, I hate the "politicizing" of things. The validity of my personhood and whether I deserve basic human rights isn't political. And yet, transgender rights are questioned and removed in the regions where "politicizing" factions have roots, and "transgender porn" is searched far more there too. Hypocrisy in action, but their entire philosophy is about burying their heads in the sand, so of course their own hypocrisy evades their notice.
Neither is Planned Parenthood's mission to give people options for family planning political. Anyone who disagrees with Planned Parenthood can choose not to use their services, but as has been proven time and time again, the places where Planned Parenthood is needed most of all is in the places which try to ban it so vehemently. They don't care about the women who die in back-alley abortions, and they don't care that proper sex education can actually prevent abortions because talking about sex makes them squeamish. They yell and scream "murderer" to the doctors who are actively trying to help them and save their lives because they can't see past the indoctrination.
The people rabid to "politicize" things they disagree with are the biggest of hypocrites and I'm so tired of seeing companies capitulating to these blinded idiots over "political issues" that have no business being labelled "political". I'm a person, I deserve the same human rights as anyone else, and women deserve the right to choose what happens to their bodies. It's obvious and self evident to anyone who isn't burying their head in the sand, or still trying to dictate the lives of others based on ancient fairy tales.
That game is being developed by an entirely different company. Even though several Crate employees worked on TQ1, Crate doesn’t own the TQ IP. THQ does.
Haven’t had a chance to hit em yet but excited to. Felt okayyyy if you were patient enough to play it slow. My problem in general is being greedy and trying to speed through, which usually does more harm than good.
I have hundreds of hours into this game, but man did this dev team wear me down and out. The constant, huge game changing development is the reason this has taken over 10 years to get to this point. Someone needed a bit better of exploration in their direction when they started.
Not on steam deck but I play it on Linux pc and ps5. One of the coolest things about it is cross save, you can save your game on pc or ps5 then continue from that same spot on the other platform.
Some things are a bit small and apart from cutscene camera angles or really zoomed in there isn’t much detail visible on the characters. I played with kb/m inputs mapped to have better utilization of deck controls. Some low fps bits here and there but generally great.
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