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Keegen, do games w The best MMOs in 2023 - PCGamer

This article was either written in parts by AI or the author is in such a hurry they didn’t have the time for even basic proofreading. In the first paragraph of the WoW part, they mention Shadowlands being the latest expansion (along with some hilariously false statements about it “bringing the game back to it’s glory early years” despite it being an absolute flop) only to mention Dragonflight in the very next one, even linking a review from their own site!

Overspark,

There are more errors. Eve Online is 20 years old, not 18. He even lists 2003 as the release year. And Palia has been playable for a couple of months now, so it could have included far more information than that.

Keegen,

Whatever AI they used to write parts of this article must be trained on 2 years old data, where Shadowlands was the most recent expansion and where the 2003 release date of EVE would make it 18 years old, at least that’s my hypothesis. The part about Palia is likely just lazy journalism, where the author didn’t even do a basic search to check if the game actually came out, I mean they didn’t even take the time to correct these incredibly obvious mistakes!

Vordus,

It’s not AI-based. Articles like this are generally repeatedly republished with extremely minimal editing every six months or so to keep them ‘fresh’ for the search engine optimisation.

stardreamer,
@stardreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh great, a human failed the Turing Test…

avater, do games w The best MMOs in 2023 - PCGamer
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

Ashes of Creation? The game is not even released…

lorty,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s the upcoming section…

avater,
@avater@lemmy.world avatar

on an article called “The best MMOs in 2023” …

PieMePlenty, do games w The best MMOs in 2023 - PCGamer

Huh Palia looks interesting. Gotta keep it on the radar.

lorty, do games w The best MMOs in 2023 - PCGamer
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

There are so few mmos worth mentioning these days you could barely make a top 10

Crashumbc, do games w The best MMOs in 2023 - PCGamer

WotLK Classic

We’re done here.

snugglesthefalse,

Nah, I’m not dealing with blizzard’s shit ever again.

stallmer,

Turtle WoW has been a fun private server! I hadn’t ever tried one before, but it’s super easy to install. Quite a few people leveling too.

snugglesthefalse,

While I’m interested in private servers I feel like I’ve finished warcraft. I did Legion and the whole burning legion story that started with wc1 is done for me.

Anonymousllama, do games w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck' | PC Gamer

Be very keen to see steam OS everywhere, there’s a vetted interest in valve getting this widely adopted (more devices running it means more eyes on steam and more potential sales)

I’m keen to see the hardware variations device manufacturers come up with when they can just throw steam os on them and it all “just works”

HeyJoe, do games w The best MMOs in 2023 - PCGamer

I came here expecting to find something new… find out about 8 of the games are a decade old or more. I wish they could make another list of top 5 in the past 5 years, or are there really not even that many being released these days? I feel like I’ve seen some really cool looking ones every year but never hear of them again.

Goronmon,

MMOs are definitely on the decline at this point. They are too big and expensive to make, and companies think GaaS setups are more lucrative.

wombatula,

GaaS took all the profitable pieces of the MMO model, and left the entire genre a desiccated husk populated with zombie games that refuse to die from the 90s, 00s, and 10s. Other than a couple Asian market games (because that market is a lot more accepting of extreme monetization in MMO), Lost Ark, and New World, I literally cannot think of a single MMO released in the 2020s that wasn’t just a kickstarter scam, and even those are less common now.

rbar,

I don’t know. As a fan of the genre there seems to be renewed interest from some very grass roots developers. I would have agreed with your take in 2020, but in 2023 we have announcements of:

  • the Riot MMO
  • Ashes of Creation
  • The Ghost studios MMO

These are all still in development, some still in the very early stages. But I would say there appears to be renewed interest in the genre by developers. These projects are major investments by industry veterans. There is more hope for a major new game.now than there has been in the last decade.

Goronmon,

There has always been a steady stream of “promising” MMOs from smaller developers over the past couple decades. So that’s not really a new phenomenon.

As for the Riot MMO, I’ll believe that when they actually have something that people can play.

lorty,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

AoC will fail in the eyes of mmo players since it cannot possibly live up to the hype.

Zahille7,

Which seems ironic right? You’d think the type of game best suited for a “games as a service” style would be MMOs.

hai, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'
@hai@lemmy.ml avatar

Good, I believe that SteamOS has the ability to bring Linux to the masses, but we don’t need a repeat of last time.

Cold_Brew_Enema,

Of last time?

paraphrand,

Steam Box era SteamOS. About a decade ago.

asexualchangeling,

It’s already far surpassed those

paraphrand,

Yeah.

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Back in 2013 or so, Microsoft launched the Windows Store alongside Windows 8, and was making some noises that sounded a lot like shutting out independent software stores like Steam and requiring everything on Windows to be sold through the Windows Store.

Valve reacted to this by saying “Welp I guess it’s time to start investing in gaming on Linux” and launched Steam Machines, little PCs designed to be connected to a television to bring the Steam experience to the living room couch. They ran a modified version of Debian Linux along with their own tweaked version of Wine that could run some Windows games alongside several (including Valve’s own library) that shipped Linux native versions.

The project itself was a bit of a flop; they relied on other companies to make Steam Machines, like Alienware and such. But a lot of things came from it.

  1. Valve demonstrated they had the wherewithal to take the gaming market with them if Microsoft got too greedy.
  2. Big Picture Mode, Steam Link, and the beginnings of Proton among others came from the Steam Machine project.
  3. The Steam Controller came from this project, which I’ve heard GabeN talk about as a major learning experience they drew on during the design of the Steam Deck, aka why the Steam Deck has perfectly conventional controls.

They spent most of the 20teens adding steady improvements for Linux gaming to the point that we switched from having a list of games that ran on Linux, to a list of games that don’t run on Linux because that became easier to manage. Then they launched the Steam Deck, an unqualified successful Linux gaming platform. Then I came here, and then it was now, and then I don’t know what happened.

Cold_Brew_Enema,

Thanks!

Amends1782,

Awesome summary, I had forgotten most of this it was so long ago. Thanks a bunch

lordnikon,

Steam machines madre the same mistake the 3DO made I’m glad they recovered and something very good camel out of it.

kalanggam,

Genuine question: what happened last time?

Zpiritual,

Nothing. Nothing at all.

DebatableRaccoon,

Steam Machines. They were supposed to bring PC gaming to the living room but didn’t live up to that promise.

mindlight,

StreamOS was a bitch to install on an ordinary PC then. I tried multiple times and just got a black screen or it didn’t boot at all.

It sucked.

core,

I ran it. it was fine for the games I played but it made my fans rev up like jet engines.

doublepepperoni,
@doublepepperoni@hexbear.net avatar

What was the last time?

The_Walkening,

Valve tried selling Linux boxes for gaming back in 2013, but noone wanted to sell/make/buy them b/c the library wasn’t there and it’s a hard sell when Windows is already baked into OEM hardware pricing anyways (so it wasn’t any cheaper to buy a pre-made Steam Machine than it was a similar-spec windows box).

Blackmist,

Isn’t Android very heavily based on Linux too (even if a lot of it is hidden at the surface level)? I can’t think of anything more mainstream than that.

I’m old enough to remember the Phantom Console bringing PC gaming to the masses too. Safe to say the Steam Deck is quite a lot more successful than that, given the only part they ended up making was a keyboard and mouse you could use from the sofa.

zagaberoo,

Android is Linux. It’s funny because this is the rare case where Stallman’s pedantry comes in handy. Android is absolutely not GNU/Linux, the OS family known as ‘Linux’, but the kernel is the Linux kernel.

If people don’t see Android as bringing Linux to the masses (which I don’t), then it’s dubious SteamOS would either. If it’s just a container for Steam, it’s not really the same thing as Linux adoption. ChromeOS actually is GNU/Linux, but I doubt many would count that either.

Even so, more consumer products with Linux inside means more improvements that benefit everyone.

sederx,

Because it’s not. The kernel is meaningless if the user space is gimped.

Katana314, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

I get the impression any more urgent gaps will be covered by the community.

I’ve used my Deck in its desktop mode, plugged in a dock, for extended periods when I didn’t have access to my PC, and it was a decent enough experience for the most part.

LazaroFilm,
@LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

I could definitely see SteamDeck sized devices becoming standard computers with a dock for larger screen, IO, keyboard/mouse and maybe GPU in desktop mode while sizing down to a portable device for travel. Same games in both configuration just 4K high quality when docked and 1080 medium quality when handheld. Plus with a full Linux os it could become our main device.

baascus,

I’ve been thinking about this for some time, but rather smartphones as the form factor. It aligns with the trend of converging technologies, where devices are becoming more multifunctional, and users are seeking more flexibility and efficiency from their gadgets. It’s a future-forward vision that I believe will redefine personal computing.

quicksand,

Sounds like what Samsung is doing with Dex

Metallinatus,
@Metallinatus@lemmy.ml avatar

Canonical tried that with Ubuntu Touch a decade ago.

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

I use dex a fair bit. It’s good, but strangely, with all they’ve spent on it, keyboard shortcuts are missing for a lot of things.

Katana314,

People have floated this idea of “dockable devices” for decades. Microsoft even made a Windows Phone that did it. The only time it worked was the Nintendo Switch, where they sold the dock together - and even then, I think their studies showed that a majority of players only play in one mode.

So it comes down to consumer friction. What do they get in one box, and how likely are they to buy a second?

GreenMario, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

That’s cool. Install Endeavor for a very close experience (both is Arch btw).

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Really liking Endeavour! Finally hopped over from the unstable mess that is Manjaro.

Still not as noob friendly as VanillaOS or some other options. HoloISO or Bazzite are both supposed to be good in that regard, as well.

johnthedoe, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

Such good news. I hope someone can answer this either theoretically or practically as I’m not as knowledgeable in this.

One of the things I love about the steam deck is the ability to just turn it off and back on a few days later and the game is exactly where I left off. If steamOS is on a PC or another handheld deck. Would it still be possible to still have this feature? I guess my question is whether this is a software or hardware feature.

SheeEttin,

Sure, that just sounds like sleep mode, which PCs have had for decades.

The important thing is for the OEM to actually implement it properly.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Sleep mode outside of SteamOS has been rough for games, because they tend to resume from sleep ungracefully and crash.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Sleep has almost never worked with games, though. I’m not aware of any games that can survive wakeup without crashing on windows.

One of the ways Valve was able to expand the OS in a manner they could never have if the steamdeck ran windows.

DudeDudenson,

It’s a lot easier to make sleep work when your target system has only one (now two) possible APUs

culpritus, (edited )
@culpritus@hexbear.net avatar

I’d imagine this is something the HW has to support, and the software has to implement a solution via that HW support. I’m really excited to see SteamOS coming up as the next mobile linux platform. With the support from Valve, I’d consider a steam deck or similar over other tablet options.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s software. I’m pretty sure my linux desktop can do this… It’s not a special feature, exactly, the system state gets saved to RAM, and then the CPU goes to sleep.

On resume the kernel reads the state from RAM and puts everything back where it was and things continue from the exact same point from which they were suspended. Theoretically.

It’s a complex sequence, and windows sleep is famous for getting it wrong on lots of hardware configs. I’ve had trouble with it on linux, as well, almost always relating to the GPU.

Valve very likely put in some work to have it work as well as it does on SteamDeck, but theres no reason it couldn’t work on any given device.

averagedrunk,

I’m using HoloISO (it’s like 95% SteamOS) on a mini PC (all AMD, 680M iGPU because I wanted to get close to the deck specs). I mostly stream games from elsewhere in the house, but it has a few titles installed locally.

The sleep works perfectly so far for local titles. I assume other Arch based distros with all of the steam software installed (like ChimeraOS) work just as well. If the hardware maker who puts it on their box makes sure their hardware is well supported it shouldn’t be an issue.

Grass, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

Good thing the linux community already has pretty much all of their concerns covered? Linux already works on regular computers. I have bazzite, which is a drop in replacement for steam os, on my deck and my laptop, and in regular use you would never know the difference. It even has read only root like steam os, but you can install system packages that survive updates.

There is, IIRC, at least once other distro that I believe can do deck as well as regular PC installs, but I haven’t tried it and don’t know the pros and cons.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

SteamOS has, in my experience, avoided a lot of problems that any desktop OS has with being a gaming-only device, Windows or Linux. Stuff like applying updates or needing to alt+tab to address notifications that are major pains in the ass to do with a controller.

averagedrunk,

ChimeraOS and HoloISO. I haven’t heard of Bazzite but I’m going to have to go look now in case HoloISO gets abandoned. Should be an easy replacement.

RogueBanana, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

As someone who doesn’t have or tried steamos, is there a reason to choose it over existing distros? Is anyone here running it on their pc?

S410,
@S410@kbin.social avatar

SteamOS is an OS for gaming consoles. It's specifically tailored for gaming and it has controller-friendly UI.

You can game on regular distros, but you need to install and open Steam, download games, and, then, launch them, before you can grab the controller.

toastal,

You could also launch directly to big picture mode for a “console” PC

S410,
@S410@kbin.social avatar

It's a little more than that.

SteamOS also uses an immutable filesystem and the system updates as a whole. Because of that, there is no risk of something updating separately and breaking compatibility.
It's fairly common for things to update on regular linux distros and break e.g. anticheat support in Proton or some other thing.

Another thing SteamOS does, at least on the Steam Desk, is actually using two partitions. The updates are always installed to the inactive one, so there's always one image that's known to work. Even if an update fails, the device will simply boot into the intact OS image. Regular distros usually don't have much in terms of fail-safes, so if things break, they have to be fixed manually.

Basically, SteamOS is trying to be as reliable and "hands-off" of an OS as possible to provide best console-like experience.

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

Nice info. Thank you

scottywh,

I think it’s really more about the extensive Proton compatibility testing.

Fisch,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Proton works on any distro

Zeth0s,

It provides an alternative UI environment built and optimized for gaming. It has a separate windows manager, a complete ui, and a set of menus to simplify customization of whatever is needed for gaming and power saving.

And quick access to steam store.

It is extremely convenient if you like a console-like experience, but, if you are a tinker gamer, it has anyway a lot of nice additional features.

It is inconvenient as general purpose desktop os, because on update you basically lose packages not installed as flatpack

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

Sounds nice for the telly. I love my nuc under the tv, but a nice, controller friendly interface would be sweet.

XTornado,

And it is somehow moddable, like people created plugins for the UI. I hope someone ends up adding alternative stores directly there and not just steam. But in any case you can install the respective apps and so on.

Takumidesh,

Is it any different than kde plasma + steam big picture?

brian,

yes, it doesn’t run plasma when it’s in big picture, it runs it in github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope along with other tweaks, so it’s lower overhead and game windows tend to behave better

it also handles updates to os as well as to steam so you don’t ever end up with an update that breaks steam, they’re always in sync

Zeth0s,

I don’t know if steam big picture use gamescope github.com/ValveSoftware/gamescope.

I would guess it doesn’t, but I cannot be 100% sure, I haven’t used steam on my laptop since ages

CarbonScored,

Mainly that it’s specifically calibrated for running games on Linux. I’ve tried the Steam Deck and it works pretty damn well out the box, compared to any other distros, so a PC version would be cool.

Chump,

Aside from native proton, being able to do everything (easily) from the controller. It’s amazing how often you still need a mouse, or just the windows key, in windows :(

The_Walkening, (edited )

What I really appreciate is that it’s geared toward handhelds, but has a decent desktop experience and is powerful enough to be a nice mobile media/piracy box with a remote and a USB-C breakout dongle. You don’t even need to change the read-only filesystem if you use WireGuard VPN (this might take some legwork to generate the .conf files you need, depends on VPN provider) and a streaming/torrenting program that comes in flatpak.

EDIT: Also forgot, you can add a custom shortcut to your Steam Library and have (some) programs launch from the SteamOS frontend rather than desktop.

Jinxyface,

Mostly just Valve specific software implements to make the experience better. SteamOS has a really good suspend/resume sleep feature where you can just power off the Deck during a game like any other console, then when you hit the power button again it just lights back up to where you were in the game.

Not sure if that's in any other distro

thegreenguy,
@thegreenguy@sopuli.xyz avatar

I think on all distros if you suspend, when you turn your device back on, it resumes everything.

Jinxyface,

The Steam deck is very quick though. I just paused Like a Dragon Gaiden and it took about 2 seconds to go to sleep, left it sitting on the table for an hour or so while I did some errands. Picked it back up and hit thepower button and I was back on the pause menu in about another 2 seconds.

Steam Deck "sleep" is more like locking your phone than it is like putting a Windows PC to sleep

520,

On a generic PC? No.

On a Steam Deck, it has useful hardware related features that are easy to access, like global frame rate limiting and seamless sleep/resume

ipkpjersi, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

I’m glad to hear they’re still working on it, they are one of the few companies I would actually trust to follow through with what they’re saying. It is in their best interest to deliver it so I’m sure they will.

ballogh, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

I don’t care for other platform support from the money I spent on steam. I prefer to get some discount instead

LolcatXTREME,

Discount on what?

520,

Steam games presumably.

But Steam's discounts are already crazy steep.

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