If screeching puritans are going to get mad about some people liking to look at pretty ladies saving humanity from monsters (but who is the monster, really), maybe reconsider playing into the reactionary gameplan so enthusiastically.
It’s hardly a patriarchal work. Eve is a badass respected for her skills working on behalf of The Mother Sphere… And who only wears stripper gear if that’s what the player wants. The difference between this and Bayonetta, for example, is that you’ve decided to react exactly the way the conservatives want you to.
Now, if you want to talk about how they very clearly edited out some serious homophobia for the English release that’s another thing but Korea gonna Korea
The vid I linked to basically said that the game is ok but derivative and not that great. The main point he was making is to point out how the “controversy” around the game doesn’t actually exist. It’s a bunch of made up crap by grifters to make idiots foam at the mouth. And it worked. And now these idiots think Stellar Blade is the next coming of Christ and the bullwark against the woke mind virus games blah blah blah…
Misogyny in stuff can be really complicated. Sometimes you can only really see it holistically, and sometimes it’s only in specifics. Sometimes a story will give a woman a lot of focus, place her feelings and emotions in the spotlight and give her actions the most agency and power over the plot- while also having her be inexplicably dressed in lingerie the whole time with a really weak excuse, if any.
Like, I love FF12. Ashe is undisputably the actual main character in it, and her story is about being a person with authority in a time of war. It’s about grappling with your own grief and desire for revenge, trying to keep in mind your principles and what you believe in. It somehow manages to be both about the divine right of kings and weapons of mass destruction and maintained it’s emotional thru line almost all the way to the end!
But also, Ashe, that hot pink mini-skirt? Girrrrrl, WTF, you live in a desert. You’re gonna fight things in a skirt made of two pink napkins? There’s no real reason for her to dress like that, and it’s definitely just for fan service!
I still love the game, but I acknowledge that it has that problem. It objectifies women because it treats them as visual treats and has them dress in bizzare ways that don’t flow adequately from their characterization. This is because of structural societal things, and it sucks for a bunch of reasons.
Bayonetta is different primarily because the work’s themes are, as I understand them, incredibly positive about women being active, powerful sexual people who do what they want.
B dresses like that because she likes being hot, and it’s a characterization tool, and it’s never a disempowering thing for her.
Like, Kill la Kill has ridiculous outfits, but I’ve had multiple women tell me they love it because of how it intersects with things they like. I wasn’t going to watch it until one of them insisted and, yeah, it’s pretty good. The sexual elements are intended and used as part of the narrative, and the emotional thru line is very strong.
So, it’s one of those things that needs an exhaustive breakdown to really know about in a work. I don’t know enough about this one to say, and I’m just commented in hopes that it’s useful for you or someone else looking at doing media analysis of this type.
I couldn’t make it through the whole 2hr essay, but I can’t disagree with some of his criticisms of the game. It’s just that they never bothered me, and I found the AAish quality of the game really cozy.
I completely agree with him about just how manufactured the “woke outrage” seemed to be, though. I just fundamentally believe “woke” lost its meaning some time ago and doesn’t really define anything anymore. It is really handy for letting mindless culture-warrior types flag themselves, though. I certainly doubt the IGN article was the ONLY article criticizing eve’s character design, but I think it served as a great example of just how far up their own asses the anti-woke crowd love to be.
I’m forced to agree. It feels weird to do so, but, I guess yeah- the thing which should be focused on is the how and why of this and not just focus on the puritan disgust angle.
I’ve seen the Shaun video (linked in these replies somewhere) so I’m familiar with what’s going on socially around this video game. Being upset because of misogynistic objectification is appropriate, but sex isn’t inherently bad.
I’m with you. Very puritan, kinkshaming article. Stellar Blade might not be my thing, but I know not to yuck people’s yum. One could take the opportunity to discuss sexual objectification, but apparently that’s off the table.
I’m not sure it’s really the same kind of thing. I’d argue anyone who is genuinely interested in an MMO would like a different game better. RuneScape has more in common with an AOL chatroom or text based game than a moden MMO even by the standards for an MMO way back when.
Other games wish they were WOW and WOW is a bad game imo.
A lot of them are. You’re not wrong. There are a few gems, but I feel like technical limitations made a lot of early ones pure grindfests. Never my favorite genre. I did like Ragnarok Online back in the day. Total grindfests. Lol.
Pride month celebrations were my go-to events in secret. My family doesn’t really understand the niche appeal of the game, and state religious agents can’t really “disguise themselves” ingame. But if Jagex is veering right, they might (like twitter) sell my information to security agencies the same way the Sauds/Turks did to Twitter a few years ago.
At least I get to wear my pride cape 24/7 until my membership runs out. In hindsight, It was a bad idea to assume that shooting stars/maple forestry/w301 hate chats were “isolated incidents”. They’re clearly part of an ongoing trend that has the CEO’s approval. Oh well, there’s always a countdown to good things. I should enjoy it while it lasts.
Cancelling a pre-loaded pride event because you’re scared of right wing nutcases being mean to your playerbase is the very definition of letting the terrorists win.
If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
I think its easy and smart to make political decisions as a business, it simply has to come from a place of pure empathy for real people who actually exist.
Pride is a political movement - or did they not fight for the rights of LGBT people? Flags are inherently political. Flying a flag signals allegiance and identity, which are political at their core.
This makes pride month political.
Being Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender isn’t political in and of itself, but movements are.
While that is true, “political” has been co-opted to dismiss legit issues so those in, ya’ know, politics can ignore the people. It’s really frustrating.
When being from the lgbtq community means that you are persecuted, punished and your life is threatened, doesn’t it mean it is political? why do you say it is not political? Or is that about fighting for survival? Is fighting for survival political? Does it even matter? You don’t specify it in your comment, are you supporting the other comments that because it is political companies should stay away from it?
When laws and states and governments try to push too far to limit things such as gender identities the lives of many become political as they are threatened by the laws, states, and governments. And yet, the rights and survival of people in peace is not truly political. That’s just the excuse used to try and censor the discussion of such topics.
No, it’s definitely political. So was the Civil Rights movement in the US. So was Womens’ suffrage.
Pushing for change is political, even if it’s nearly universally agreed that the particular change is necessary and good. I agree with LGBT rights and as far as I care, they can have a month long pride if they want, it doesn’t in any way chafe my willy. However, I agree with the person you replied to. As a business, ANY stance on ANY political cause risks alienation of some part of your customer base. Doing a 180 on your stance like Jagex did is of course the worst thing you can do, because then you alienate the people who agreed with you, but the others will still remember when you disagreed with them. Once they decided to do pride, they should’ve fucking stuck to it, at least for the year where they already had events scheduled!
If I ran a public-facing business at all, it would have literally no political allegiance or opinions. No stance on LGBT rights, no political donations (not really a huge thing in my country anyway), etc. Just do my thing, provide a great service, make sure my employees and customers are happy, and… The LGBT folks can do whatever they want, I’m just not voicing support for them as a business. Even if I as a person root for equal rights, I just don’t want to take a stance as a business owner. Donations to charities, including LGBT charities, are fine - I just don’t want it to be particularly public. But then I just prefer privacy in these kinds of matters.
Pride movement is as political as Christmas is political. There will be people that make it a political issue, but that doesn’t mean it is actually political. A company that celebrates a holiday that big part of the population celebrate is not siding with a political party or even with a religion. The rights for any minorities in a government or a state is political, but pride is a celebration and as such it is not political. A state making a religion official and forced/encouraged is political. Celebrating Christmas is not political. And celebrating Christmas as a company doesn’t mean they alienate customers or employees that don’t actually follow the religious side of the holiday.
Don’t get sucked into the idea that a company cannot show support for minorities or make events depending on the celebrations socially occurring because you need to be neutral. That’s not neutrality, that’s self censorship.
To take it to the extremes, are we expecting companies to say they are not against slavery but also not in favor, because it is political? Child labour is bad, but I don’t want to support any side because it is too political. Terrorism attacks? Well we don’t have a stance against or for them, it’s just too political.
There’s a big difference between siding with one party or another and not showing a stance into what should be universal human rights. Are universal human rights political? Well kinda, but we shouldn’t support, or allow any company that is afraid of supporting human rights because it might alienate some customers… Pride and lgbtq rights might not be on the same level as slavery, terrorism and child labor but hell who someone spends their life with is a human right and has nothing to do with politics.
In my country at least, there are differences of opinion about whether queer people can exist in public, use the bathroom, etc., and the people in power are endangering everyone. So pride is very much political.
You must live in a pretty privileged country if you can compare the LGBT rights movement to the anti-slavery movement, a nice “it’s done, let’s go have some beers now” state of things, eh?
It’s certainly not so clear cut in a lot of the world. People are still fighting for their rights and pride is part of it.
If you were in 1850s or 1860s in the US, hell, even some time after that, and your company said “We support black people’s rights”, that would be very political. Morally the right message to put out, but you suddenly lose half your customers and a bunch of idiots want to kill you. Not a smart business move tbh. Now if you said that for years in a row and then decided “We’ll stop our black people’s rights campaign”, now you’re making a whole new political statement, in the exact opposite direction to the original one, and significantly worse. Now you’re also alienating the people who DO agree with what you originally said, and hoping that the people you originally alienated, are coming back. They are not.
Doing something political for years and then NOT doing something political is not “politically neutral,” you’re actively decided to make a politically motivated decision instead of simply continue with existing behavior.
I didn’t say cancelling it was neutral. I was commenting on the people’s opinions that companies should take stances.
Jagex here, clearly already took a stance (they had pride for several years) and then canceled it last minute after already announcing event dates for this year. That’s straight up cowardice on their part. Like I’ve said before - if you’re going to do pride as a company, fucking stick to your guns or you’ll reveal you were never really an ally.
The fact that business engage in Christmas celebrations instead of, say, Ramadan, is itself a political decision - it places value on Christmas over the celebrations of other religions.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be Christmas events in games - quite contrary, I think having as many events from as many cultures would be a smart business decision and it would make a larger number of players happy. But the fact is it would be a double standard to be fine with that and not with Pride.
I’m not saying it isn’t - but so is Pride. Why would you place a subculture celebration - Christmas (since not everyone celebrates), over another subculture’s celebration - Pride (which also isn’t celebrated by everyone)
I don’t see why we can’t have both. Just ignore the one you don’t like and let others have their fun too
Do you also support gay people on your service by letting them organize and run a gay pride event on your service? Or is having to witness people celebrating gay pride too much for your delicate sensibilities?
Not the person you replied to, but agree with them to some degree, at least on the fact that any strong political stances are dangerous for a business.
If I ran a service and gay people are celebrating pride on it, that’s none of my business and they can keep on doing whatever they want. Similarly, if conservatives want to throw a straight party without outright saying gay people deserve fewer rights, it’s fucking weird, but it’s their business. The moment anyone advocates for harming someone else, THAT’s when it becomes a problem for me. Goal of a business, in my opinion, is to serve as many people as possible.
I just wouldn’t want to voice support for, or against, anyone’s rights, as a business. It’s horrible that LGBT rights are a politicized issue, sure. But if I ran a business, and there are 30% otherwise quite well-behaved customers who would drop my business because I changed my logo to a rainbow colored one… I just don’t see myself doing that. If I’m providing a service at the best price/quality ratio, it would just mean they drop me to go pay a homophobic business owner even more money for the same service. Does that actually benefit anyone, other than the hypothetical homophobic business owner?
But the worst, most cowardly thing, is supporting LGBT rights and then WITHDRAWING that support. If you’re political already, fucking stick to your beliefs. Don’t abandon them the second the political landscape starts changing.
I think your last paragraph encompasses the essence of what people hate about this decision. I haven’t seen any outrage at companies that have never celebrated Pride. On the other hand, having celebrated it before and then deciding not to - especially when the event was ready to go and just needed approval - well, imo that’s even more of a politically motivated decision than simply having Pride
The mod team is not happy about this either, and was responsive to me. Enough voices can change things.
If you haven’t play RuneScape - this has been a popular event for years. It’s always high quality fun. There have been stupid Fally protests and chuds but the events have always been really delightful.
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