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PlzGivHugs, (edited ) do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Tl;dr: Mastercard says they didn’t “force” Valve to remove nsfw games. Tery just told them that if they didn’t remove the games that were complained about by Collective Shout, they’ll block them.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Couldn’t they just block collective shout thus probably losing far less business?

PlzGivHugs,

Mastercard? Yes, but then they’d have to admit that they were in the wromg.

HarkMahlberg,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth avatar

Unless MC and Visa are run by people who already agree with Collective Shout and are just using them as an excuse to enforce this policy.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t they have shareholders though?

HarkMahlberg,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth avatar

If they do, that includes them. Decision makers at all levels, nobody gets to say "hey I didn't make Mastercard act this way." Because the status quo would have been to carry on processing video game payments, even in the face of a minority faction like Collective Shout.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

You’d expect them to put profits above this kind of petty consideration. That would only be valid if the company was owned by a fairly small group.

Kazumara, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Brilliant, just make your rules vague and force everyone else down the chain to self-censor. Surely this will result in the best outcome.

Fucking mastercard

INHALE_VEGETABLES, (edited )

Their rules seem to just follow the law or am I retarded and missed something?

Edit: thanks for the downvotes, fuck me I guess lol.

Dunstabzugshaubitze,

or any other material that the Corporation deems unacceptable to sell in connection with a Mark

which could be just anything.

fakeman_pretendname,

Nuggan Mastercard has decided the following things are abominations, and are therefore unacceptable to sell:

Cats, the colour blue, oysters, mushrooms, chocolate, garlic, cheese, the smell of beets, jigsaw puzzles, and rocks

Enkers,

A few of those even have actual real live victims, unlike video game porn. This whole debacle is truly absurd.

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

These comments are what is absurd ngl.

Get a grip.

krunklom,

wat

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

Whoat?

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Obviously our solution here is to send a pissed off bard to beat up Mastercard, then.

Kazumara,

Up to the third comma, yes, but all the rest seems to go beyond that pretty arbitrarily.

When they say anything that “may damage the goodwill of the corporation”, and qualify that with “in the sole discretion of the Corporation” that just means “anything we don’t want to be associated with, and we will be the judge of that”.

That’s what makes it so vague, how is a Merchant or an Acquirer supposed to know what Mastercard might find damaging to the goodwill? They have to guess, or use trial and error*. Most will just err on the side of caution, which means customers get blocked from even more purchases, just to be safe.

  • Or talk to Mastercard, which Valve apparently tried, but they wouldn’t respond.
Passerby6497,

When they say anything that “may damage the goodwill of the corporation”,

Looks like MasterCard is going to have to ban MasterCard because of all the damage they’ve done to MasterCard’s goodwill.

psx_crab,

Their rules seem to just follow the law

Whose law? The US? UK? Netherlands? Japan? Or Singapore?

That’s why it’s vague.

bouh,

It’s much worse than that. How they word it is “if it may damage the public image of mastercard”. And they don’t review the content, they review the means used to prevent the damage to their brand.

So valve doesn’t even need to have anything that actually damage mastercard brand, it just need to be that mastercard is not comfortable enough with the measures used to prevent it.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Like buying anything would actually damage the brand of Mastercard. It’s such a nonsensical excuse that I’m surprised nobody laughed in their face.

SheeEttin,

Yeah, right up until assholes start posting “MASTERCARD SELLS SMUT INCEST HENTAI GAMES” on TikTok. Then it’s a problem, and MasterCard considers that damaging to the brand.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

There’s really nothing stopping anyone from posting that right now. That’s the quality level of most of the online content nowadays.

SheeEttin,

That’s my point. They are posting it, and MasterCard does consider it harmful to the brand, so now we’re here.

bouh,

Except that’s entirely false. Even now they are pretending they do nothing, it’s the intermediaries who force things.

Mastercard sells absolutely nothing. And they have no responsibility for anything sold. And no one ever thought it was mastercard selling or even allowing to sell illegal things.

In fact, most people will believe no one sound of mind will buy something illegal with a credit card because mastercard and the likes will give your identity to the police.

So it’s not about illegal things, and it’s not about their image.

IronKrill,
@IronKrill@lemmy.ca avatar

If they just wanted to follow the law, they could have left it at “don’t sell anything illegal” without all the extra “brand damage” nonsense.

Passerby6497,

No, the rules don’t (that’s why it’s been fine for 7 years), and you used a derogatory term so cry harder about your downvotes.

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

please sir may I have another

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s not even that vague.

Valve basically said: “we are not doing anything illegal”.

To which mastercard responded: “yeah but you’re making us look bad, so tough”.

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

To which mastercard responded

I don’t think you read this properly. Mastercard didn’t respond at all.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Of course they did.

They just did so from behind a veil of plausible deniability.

You think a citatation of a specific mastercard contract clause came from a concerned partner?

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

So you think Valve is lying?

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

What?

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

Did you not read literally the first line?

In a statement to Kotaku, a spokesperson for Valve said that while Mastercard did not communicate with it directly, concerns did come through payment processor and banking intermediaries

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes.

Plausible deniability.

“Oh so sorry that wasn’t us, one of our partners just overzealously applied our policies”

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

You seem to have forgotten what we were discussing, which was that Mastercard didn’t say anything.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

You really buy that?

Valve asked mastercard directly.

A lack of a response is also a response, in this case essentially an endorsement of whatever their partner was telling Valve.

Even moreso when that partner is citing mastercard terms.

May not have been mastercards mouth, but it was LITERALLY their words.

If they had something to add, they had their chance. They’re only officially saying anything now that they have to.

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

A lack of a response is also a response

I see we’re going with the insanity approach.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Valve asked mastercard for direct communication.

“Hey, your partner is citing your terms and pushing us to pull certain titles, you ok with this?”

Not responding to that is a response.

Count042,

Spoken like someone that doesn’t understand language or communication.

There is literally a name for this type of response, and yet you’re out here accusing people who are apparently more knowledgeable than you of insanity.

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

Oh well if there’s a name for it, it must be real! Just like Unicorns and Griffins!

Microw,
@Microw@piefed.zip avatar

A lawyer for a processor like PayPal or Stripe could easily have gone "uh, the Mastercard contract clause prohibits this".

And PayPal is well known for doing shitty things, so it wouldn't surprise me.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Maybe.

But Valve asked mastercard directly.

A lack of a response is a also a response, in this case essentially an endorsement of whatever their partner was telling Valve.

CocaineShrimp, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

I don’t think they realize how much worse their brands look now, after starting all this shit…

filcuk,

Does it really matter when you’re a duopoly and equally bad as one another?

fluffykittycat,

Until they’re not, and any competition now has the NSFW and LGBT markets to themselves

UltraGiGaGigantic,
@UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml avatar

Politics_IRL

fluffykittycat,

I want to cancel ally visa and mastercard cards and never give them my business ever again after this

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Amex is still reasonably good.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Amex charges up to 14% of every transaction. If a place takes it, they are almost always ripping you off.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Amex typically charges between 1.7 and 3.3%.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

As someone who does not take amex they want to charge me between 7% and 14%. Maybe if I did more sales they would not charge as much, but the reason amex is not taken in as many places as mastercard or visa is the 7% to 14%.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Weird. All the info I can find shows a maximum merchant fee of 3.3% + $0.10 per transaction.

Even this article about the topic says the reason is because amex charges .5% - 1% more. Not 6-13% more.

Maybe it varies by country? Are you in NoAm or somewhere else?

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

I am in Canada, and amex is famous for charging way too much in merchant fees. They also charge it under a silly system based on the type of card used (the more “elite” the more the merchant pays).

Darkonion,

This might just be my insomnia talking, but I thought a reasonable idea might be to call and reduce the available credit by however much is comfortable. For me, it would be fairly reasonable to reduce it by 50%. I assume they use some kind of magicians handshake to value their company based on how much potential credit is out there… Maybe it’d do nothing though. Anyone know?

proudblond,

I am not a financial guru so hopefully someone will correct me if I’m wrong about this, but your credit score is affected positively the more available credit you have. So by voluntarily lowering your available credit, you’re actually hurting yourself way more than the card companies. At least I think that’s how it works, or rather one of many factors.

couch1potato,

This will do nothing except hurt your own credit score as your credit utilization will be higher

Saleh,

You guys use them for actual credit? To me it seems that in Europe they are mostly used as a debit card directly charging your account, but compatible with the global payment processing of them.

lmmarsano, (edited )

I thought credit was the main selling point.

  • Ability to dispute & reverse charges.
  • Flexibility to keep cash in an account earning higher interest until payment is due.
  • Not having to constantly check enough cash is in your low interest checking account (which you’ll keep low so your cash earns more interest elsewhere & to minimize losses in case of unauthorized debits).
bjoern_tantau,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

You have an account that earns interest?

Last time I saw that was as a child.

But then again I was able to get a loan for my house at ridiculously low interest, so I’m not complaining too much.

SheeEttin,

HYSA exist. My checking account earns a pittance.

whats_a_lemmy,

You can occasionally find high interest checking accounts too, but they tend to have weird strings attached

Modern_medicine_isnt,

Well think of it like this. I keep an amount in my checking account (basically no interest) to cover the credit card bills. Extra I move out to an online savings account that does have a ddcent interest rate. By having a date when the CC bill comes due, I can check once a month (7 days before due) and move money if needed to cover the bill. So while the checking has practically no interest, I was getting close to 5% on the savings for a while. Still a far stretch from the 12% cds I got as a kid, but it’s something.

lmmarsano,

Yep, like this one, though it could earn more in bonds or investments.

Low-interest loans are great, too: if they don’t need to be repaid right away, they can be leveraged to earn back more than their cost.

CIA_chatbot,

That will also destroy your credit rating

SheeEttin, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

“Nonconsensual mutilation of a person or body part” includes just about every fighter or shooter game. They really want to have COD delisted over this?

acosmichippo,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

you’re missing some context in that.

“The sale of a product… which is patently offensive and lacks serious artistic value… (such as… images of… Nonconsensual mutilation of a person or body part”

insert joke about COD lacking artistic value, but clearly there is more to COD than just body mutilation.

SPRUNT,

“Patently offensive” and “lacks serious artistic value” are entirely subjective classifications. With those restrictions, any game with country music should be delisted.

Lembot_0004,

Wagner and Mahler: Listen, we have some really badass tracks. Use them! And nobody would dare to call this music “not art enough”.

bryndos,

Man, if i could get a patent on offending people . . . money, money money, win win win.

haloduder,

Artistic value is subjective.

That clause shouldn’t hold up in a court.

yeahiknow3,

To be fair, that would be fucking hilarious.

jaybone,

Some kid on COD said he fucked my mom and then he called me a faggot.

Seleni,

A ‘removed’?

joelfromaus,
@joelfromaus@aussie.zone avatar

Unironically, COD getting delisted would probably get mainstream media coverage and legitimate outrage from people who “don’t play video games” but actually do.

CIA_chatbot,

Also most movies, tv shows, books, every single religious text

ChicoSuave, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Fuckers are just propagating the fury without providing a fix. Are the censored games back or not? Because right now they aren’t. Put them back and make Mastercard do something about it now that they have staged their position. Collective Shout is playing both sides.

CameronDev, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Ok furry artists, you know what to do, I wanna see the filthiest Visa x MasterCard art you can dream off. Payment process me baby

puppycat,

not furry but someone already made mastercard-chan and visa-kun

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/f1bacfe8-6ec4-4718-90ed-e2193555fa35.webp

CameronDev,

Thats hot. And I am going to assume this is canon from now on.

Dreaming_Novaling, (edited )

Is this Merryweathery? I swear he’s always the one doing these gijinkas (Internet Explorer-chan, Twitter-chan, Switch-chan, etc.)

Edit: Just me or does Mastercard-chan have a bulge? Cause like… yes please…

puppycat,

it is!

Dreaming_Novaling,

Figured lol, he’s the usual culprit for any cute gijinka of a current trend.

nutsack,

no don’t do it

Vupware,

No, seriously, why don’t we bombard every customer service line with payment processor themed smut?

Phone sex,

Sex gifs,

Those geeek sculptures,

Etc

Eyekaytee, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games
@Eyekaytee@aussie.zone avatar

so it was about potential brand damage that doesn’t exist? and/or has this actually brand damaged visa and mastercard more than ignoring collective shout?

halcyoncmdr,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

What I see is Mastercard hiding behind their generic rules for processors and being fine with the processors taking unilateral action that could damage their brand.

Mastercard should demand they rescind the decision based on a flawed interpretation of their rules since the content IS NOT ILLEGAL where Steam provides it, or drop those processors entirely due to the brand damage their unilateral decision has caused. If Mastercard lets this sit, that signals that they agree with this decision, regardless of what they say, and they should be treated as such.

NiHaDuncan,

Read mastercard’s actual rule that is literally in the OP. The processor’s interpretation isn’t flawed and in no way does Mastercard limit their rule to what is illegal.

The rule is so open ended and vague that it’s entirely on Mastercard (and Visa) that this shit happened.

halcyoncmdr,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

It is intentionally vague, because companies want to be able to weasel out of any and all accountability whenever possible.

But Mastercard isn’t off the hook either way even if we accept the rules as they are currently. Before this incident, Mastercard has been starting to censor adult content in general with rules changes. To the point where there was already a petition on the ACLU site about this exact type of censorship.

…aclu.org/…/mastercard-sex-work-work-end-your-unj…

Mastercard is trying to weasel their way out of this particular instance because they didn’t directly have a hand in this video game situation, even though they clearly would agree with it based on other recent changes. They’re trying to play both sides by assuming that people didn’t know they were already doing these things.

bouh,

What I read is that it is not about illegal content. It is about the measures taken to prevent illegal content from being sold. It’s much more devious than simple censorship.

atrielienz, (edited ) do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

Takes it all back because A. There was no review bombing, people who left mixed reviews had reasonable and valid complaints, and B. He reversed course as soon as people started pointing out how he was protesting quite a lot about exactly nobody calling him a Nazi.

gusgalarnyk, do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

I assumed pretty immediately upon hearing him in a couple of interviews that he was exactly this right winger camoflaughing as a centralist. I gave the game the benefit of the doubt because I hadn’t seen any hard evidence but I’ll stop talking kindly about the game based on this info.

Politics is how we organize our society. Most of everything is political. When society starts organizing movements against groups of people, stripping away rights, and generally being Nazis you have to get more political to stop them. Taking no position is taking a position. Join the rebellion or support the empire, there is no in-between.

Cris16228, do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

Awwww and I wanted to buy and play them :(

Nikls94,

👒 🏴‍☠️ 🌊 🚢 you can still play them Arrr

Oughtakyk,

This is the way 🦜

Cris16228,

That’s when I wear the pirate hat but still! I saw a bundle with the first game :(

supernight52, do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

“These days, apparently anyone who doesn’t include five trans characters in their game and doesn’t let their products be influenced by political bullshit is a Nazi. What a world we live in.”

And like that I will not buy anything by this studio ever. Mahler is a whiny bitch baby.

7112,

This does more damage than the actual review bombs for me

Pika,
@Pika@sh.itjust.works avatar

yea for real… like I didn’t even know it /was/ being review bombed, but as an avid fan of the Ori series… this puts a real sour taste in my mouth

catalyst,
@catalyst@lemmy.world avatar

Yeaaaah, I’m with you. What a wild comment to make. I was ready to give them the benefit of the doubt that the whole review bombing drama was just a case of having a bad day but this is something else.

Essence_of_Meh, (edited )
@Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world avatar

He had more of similar comments throughout the years so… yeah. He’s also known for poor management and causing toxic work environment to the point Microsoft decided to cut ties with the studio.
Just in case someone thought these are just some out of context or one-time “jokes”/missteps.

Heck, here are some bonus links for good measure:

AntiBullyRanger,

So then I was correct to spot the plea for positive review bombing his game. Two shades for Machiavellianing your workers, three for us.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

Yup.

I want to say we all found out he was a piece of shit in the lead up to Ori 2? Very much led to a lot of outlets doing the “The game is good but up to you if you want to support this kind of worker abuse”. And he just got worse and worse since.

Essence_of_Meh,
@Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world avatar

I want to say we all found out he was a piece of shit in the lead up to Ori 2?

Eh, not necessarily? I’m sure there are plenty of people who just play the games and aren’t in the know of any drama going on behind the scenes. Heck, I’m pretty tuned in into what’s going on in the industry and while I remember hearing some of this stuff back in the day most of it faded away since I wasn’t particularly interested in the series.

I think it’s better to remind folks about these situations than assume everyone is familiar with what’s going on.

draconik,

I personally love the games and had no clue this drama existed. Kind of regret buying these games now

Essence_of_Meh,
@Essence_of_Meh@lemmy.world avatar

You already played the games, you enjoy them - it is what it is. There’s no point in beating yourself over (not) doing something without knowledge about the circumstances. No one is omnipotent and can avoid supporting every single shitty person out there. Just have fun with what you like and don’t support the guy in the future, that’s the best one can do in such situation in my opinion.

Oughtakyk,

Same here, if there’s any plan to continue the series count me out

Pika,
@Pika@sh.itjust.works avatar

I don’t regret buying them, they are good games, but I don’t Condone shitty practices. If you restricted yourself to moral or ethic right companies only you would have nothing to buy sadly. You buying a game != you accepting the ideologies of the leadership of said game.

Just get games you know you enjoy, and ignore all the dramatics that are involved. Life’s to short to lock yourself down with it all.

LandedGentry, (edited )

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • supernight52,

    It’s a quote from the article about his response to this situation.

    catloaf,

    There was no review bombing.

    FooBarrington,

    Oh shit, thanks for bringing this up. Will definitely never buy a game from this studio again!

    LostWanderer,

    Oof, yep this really does damage to my intention to buy his game more than ‘review bombing’ often you can tell if there is something fundamentally wrong with a game or not based on the actual content of reviews…Or if users are pushing for an adjustment. If there is a whisper of a trans or gay character in a game, there is so much pushback, so I don’t know what the fuck he is on about; Mahler is such a whiny snowflake, that probably needs to take his medication because his post history is looking a little sus. Like he unplugged from reality for a few minutes.

    SkunkWorkz,

    And

    The confusing rant then rather radically changed subject to talk about how he doesn’t want to take sides in the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine

    And

    In 2022, https://venturebeat.com/games/despite-its-beautiful-ori-games-moon-studio-is-called-an-oppressive-place-to-work/ that staff working for Moon Studios had told the outlet about a culture of “casual racism, sexism and bullying,” describing it as “an oppressive workplace.”

    ChickenAndRice,
    @ChickenAndRice@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Oh damn. I was going to get the Ori games but will spend my money elsewhere. Thanks for the heads up.

    Nikls94,

    🏴‍☠️ them instead

    mrodri89, do games w Blizzard's Overwatch Team Just Unionized: 'What I Want To Protect Most Here Is The People'

    Im happy. Best state the game has been in and can only get better from here.

    eugenevdebs, do games w Blizzard's Overwatch Team Just Unionized: 'What I Want To Protect Most Here Is The People'

    Blizzard probably allowed it because Overwatch is bleeding player count, and then can use the union as “proof” that that unions harm the bottom line.

    I’m happy for them and I hope they can do something on even across other titles/teams, but I suspect Blizzard didn’t hire the Pinkertons like Amazon for a reason.

    Angry_Autist, do games w Blizzard's Overwatch Team Just Unionized: 'What I Want To Protect Most Here Is The People'

    Only a decade too late

    Genius, do games w Blizzard's Overwatch Team Just Unionized: 'What I Want To Protect Most Here Is The People'

    Hopefully the union can crack down on the frat culture they have there. No more stolen breast milk please

    Poopfeast420,
    @Poopfeast420@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    I think the OW team was already pretty good in that regard, and Jeff Kaplan tried to “protect” them, even if that didn’t always result in the best decisions for the game.

    Angry_Autist,

    Narrator: It won’t

    You really have no idea how deep this runs at Blizzard

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