kotaku.com

angrystego, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Isn’t every game NSFW? Funny how language works.

bryndos,

Are you suggesting "professional gamer" is not a real/worthwhile job?

Natanael,

It’s like being a miner, the job isn’t safe for work

UltraGiGaGigantic,
@UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml avatar

Don’t dig straight down

fishy,

I only have about 20ish hours of work weekly and I’m on a hybrid schedule. My two days at home I’m essentially paid to game since I need to be available but don’t have anything to do. Am I a pro gamer now?

ipkpjersi,

My first work from home job was a lot like that. My next two after that were only like that sometimes.

fishy,

This same position in another company was a 60 hour job. They required all information to be shared in PowerPoint with images so I’d effectively spend 30 hours a week making presentations that lasted an hour or two at most, but could’ve been a chart in an email.

This spot started as 40 hours a week, but I automated most tasks and just don’t share the files and bi templates. They spend ten hours a week on a task I’ve automated to 30 minutes because their excel guru can’t figure out a formula I googled. They’re promoting me to a Sr. position with glowing reviews and I’ve never worked less in my life.

Korhaka,

I think I did a whole 4 hours of work last week. Really pushing myself lately.

fishy,

Dang, be sure not to overdo it. Don’t wanna burn out, y’know?

mx_smith,

Unless your work has been gamified. I play several games at work, one called Jira, another called GIT they aren’t super exciting but it’s a job.

NigelFrobisher, (edited )

Ironic though that gamification refers to features added to games to make them feel more like jobs (quotas, deadlines, milestones, certification etc).

merdaverse, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

“Mastercard did not communicate with Valve directly, despite our request to do so,” Valve’s statement sent over email to Kotaku reads. “Mastercard communicated with payment processors and their acquiring banks. Payment processors communicated this with Valve

This whole thing reads like a telephone game where nobody wants to take any responsibility.

bryndos,

At work when no one wants to pick up a task, I issue the "slopey shoulders" award.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/mrmen/images/1/15/Mr_cheeky1.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20170519093913

rozodru,

they did the exact same thing in the porn industry. naturally Visa and MC didn’t communicate directly with the individual porn companies. So thats’ how places like CCBill and what have you took off. and then Visa and MC laid out their weird rules to CCBill who then passed it along to the individual companies.

MITM0, (edited )
@MITM0@lemmy.world avatar

CollectiveShout did take responsibility & they’re Confirmed to be pedos, so what are we waiting for ?

Passerby6497,

Honestly, I don’t care if MasterCard doesn’t want to take responsibility. It was their rule and their intermediaries that caused the situation and they did not intervene when valve tried to reach out directly.

They are responsible through action or inaction, no matter how they try to deny it.

5too,

It seems like, if they’re publicly denying responsibility, Steam and Itch now have legal cover to restore everything.

I’m not a lawyer, etc. etc., but don’t public statements from these kinds of entities inform how these clauses can be enforced?

Petter1, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

I can’t imagine, that the delisted games lacked “serious artistic value“.

Proof me wrong!

(Joke is, you can’t proof that in any way)

GreenKnight23, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games
Decoy321,

Oh shit, that’s an old school reference. Poor Mr. Cheeseface.

For those unfamiliar, this is from an old National Lampoons magazine.

A few years later, someone actually shot that dog.

Grizzlyboy, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

I love how this has damaged Mastercards brand much more than anything Valve sells. MC would rather pressure Valve for selling NSFW games, than clean up billionaires buying and trafficking children.

Luouth,
@Luouth@lemmy.world avatar

Hey, Mastercard don’t deal with those transactions. Too traceable! Diplomatic narcotics and crypto have less of a paper trail…

BarbecueCowboy,

Mastercard is living the corporate dream. They’ve colluded their way to a near monopoly and don’t have to care about the value of their brand. They just have to be invisible enough that they don’t pull heat for something or other from various governments.

PlzGivHugs, (edited ) do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Tl;dr: Mastercard says they didn’t “force” Valve to remove nsfw games. Tery just told them that if they didn’t remove the games that were complained about by Collective Shout, they’ll block them.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Couldn’t they just block collective shout thus probably losing far less business?

PlzGivHugs,

Mastercard? Yes, but then they’d have to admit that they were in the wromg.

HarkMahlberg,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth avatar

Unless MC and Visa are run by people who already agree with Collective Shout and are just using them as an excuse to enforce this policy.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t they have shareholders though?

HarkMahlberg,
@HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth avatar

If they do, that includes them. Decision makers at all levels, nobody gets to say "hey I didn't make Mastercard act this way." Because the status quo would have been to carry on processing video game payments, even in the face of a minority faction like Collective Shout.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

You’d expect them to put profits above this kind of petty consideration. That would only be valid if the company was owned by a fairly small group.

Kazumara, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Brilliant, just make your rules vague and force everyone else down the chain to self-censor. Surely this will result in the best outcome.

Fucking mastercard

INHALE_VEGETABLES, (edited )

Their rules seem to just follow the law or am I retarded and missed something?

Edit: thanks for the downvotes, fuck me I guess lol.

Dunstabzugshaubitze,

or any other material that the Corporation deems unacceptable to sell in connection with a Mark

which could be just anything.

fakeman_pretendname,

Nuggan Mastercard has decided the following things are abominations, and are therefore unacceptable to sell:

Cats, the colour blue, oysters, mushrooms, chocolate, garlic, cheese, the smell of beets, jigsaw puzzles, and rocks

Enkers,

A few of those even have actual real live victims, unlike video game porn. This whole debacle is truly absurd.

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

These comments are what is absurd ngl.

Get a grip.

krunklom,

wat

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

Whoat?

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Obviously our solution here is to send a pissed off bard to beat up Mastercard, then.

Kazumara,

Up to the third comma, yes, but all the rest seems to go beyond that pretty arbitrarily.

When they say anything that “may damage the goodwill of the corporation”, and qualify that with “in the sole discretion of the Corporation” that just means “anything we don’t want to be associated with, and we will be the judge of that”.

That’s what makes it so vague, how is a Merchant or an Acquirer supposed to know what Mastercard might find damaging to the goodwill? They have to guess, or use trial and error*. Most will just err on the side of caution, which means customers get blocked from even more purchases, just to be safe.

  • Or talk to Mastercard, which Valve apparently tried, but they wouldn’t respond.
Passerby6497,

When they say anything that “may damage the goodwill of the corporation”,

Looks like MasterCard is going to have to ban MasterCard because of all the damage they’ve done to MasterCard’s goodwill.

psx_crab,

Their rules seem to just follow the law

Whose law? The US? UK? Netherlands? Japan? Or Singapore?

That’s why it’s vague.

bouh,

It’s much worse than that. How they word it is “if it may damage the public image of mastercard”. And they don’t review the content, they review the means used to prevent the damage to their brand.

So valve doesn’t even need to have anything that actually damage mastercard brand, it just need to be that mastercard is not comfortable enough with the measures used to prevent it.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Like buying anything would actually damage the brand of Mastercard. It’s such a nonsensical excuse that I’m surprised nobody laughed in their face.

SheeEttin,

Yeah, right up until assholes start posting “MASTERCARD SELLS SMUT INCEST HENTAI GAMES” on TikTok. Then it’s a problem, and MasterCard considers that damaging to the brand.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

There’s really nothing stopping anyone from posting that right now. That’s the quality level of most of the online content nowadays.

SheeEttin,

That’s my point. They are posting it, and MasterCard does consider it harmful to the brand, so now we’re here.

bouh,

Except that’s entirely false. Even now they are pretending they do nothing, it’s the intermediaries who force things.

Mastercard sells absolutely nothing. And they have no responsibility for anything sold. And no one ever thought it was mastercard selling or even allowing to sell illegal things.

In fact, most people will believe no one sound of mind will buy something illegal with a credit card because mastercard and the likes will give your identity to the police.

So it’s not about illegal things, and it’s not about their image.

IronKrill,
@IronKrill@lemmy.ca avatar

If they just wanted to follow the law, they could have left it at “don’t sell anything illegal” without all the extra “brand damage” nonsense.

Passerby6497,

No, the rules don’t (that’s why it’s been fine for 7 years), and you used a derogatory term so cry harder about your downvotes.

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

please sir may I have another

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

It’s not even that vague.

Valve basically said: “we are not doing anything illegal”.

To which mastercard responded: “yeah but you’re making us look bad, so tough”.

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

To which mastercard responded

I don’t think you read this properly. Mastercard didn’t respond at all.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Of course they did.

They just did so from behind a veil of plausible deniability.

You think a citatation of a specific mastercard contract clause came from a concerned partner?

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

So you think Valve is lying?

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

What?

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

Did you not read literally the first line?

In a statement to Kotaku, a spokesperson for Valve said that while Mastercard did not communicate with it directly, concerns did come through payment processor and banking intermediaries

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Yes.

Plausible deniability.

“Oh so sorry that wasn’t us, one of our partners just overzealously applied our policies”

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

You seem to have forgotten what we were discussing, which was that Mastercard didn’t say anything.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

You really buy that?

Valve asked mastercard directly.

A lack of a response is also a response, in this case essentially an endorsement of whatever their partner was telling Valve.

Even moreso when that partner is citing mastercard terms.

May not have been mastercards mouth, but it was LITERALLY their words.

If they had something to add, they had their chance. They’re only officially saying anything now that they have to.

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

A lack of a response is also a response

I see we’re going with the insanity approach.

MentalEdge, (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Valve asked mastercard for direct communication.

“Hey, your partner is citing your terms and pushing us to pull certain titles, you ok with this?”

Not responding to that is a response.

Count042,

Spoken like someone that doesn’t understand language or communication.

There is literally a name for this type of response, and yet you’re out here accusing people who are apparently more knowledgeable than you of insanity.

Ulrich,
@Ulrich@feddit.org avatar

Oh well if there’s a name for it, it must be real! Just like Unicorns and Griffins!

Microw,
@Microw@piefed.zip avatar

A lawyer for a processor like PayPal or Stripe could easily have gone "uh, the Mastercard contract clause prohibits this".

And PayPal is well known for doing shitty things, so it wouldn't surprise me.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Maybe.

But Valve asked mastercard directly.

A lack of a response is a also a response, in this case essentially an endorsement of whatever their partner was telling Valve.

CocaineShrimp, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

I don’t think they realize how much worse their brands look now, after starting all this shit…

filcuk,

Does it really matter when you’re a duopoly and equally bad as one another?

fluffykittycat,

Until they’re not, and any competition now has the NSFW and LGBT markets to themselves

UltraGiGaGigantic,
@UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml avatar

Politics_IRL

fluffykittycat,

I want to cancel ally visa and mastercard cards and never give them my business ever again after this

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Amex is still reasonably good.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

Amex charges up to 14% of every transaction. If a place takes it, they are almost always ripping you off.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Amex typically charges between 1.7 and 3.3%.

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

As someone who does not take amex they want to charge me between 7% and 14%. Maybe if I did more sales they would not charge as much, but the reason amex is not taken in as many places as mastercard or visa is the 7% to 14%.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Weird. All the info I can find shows a maximum merchant fee of 3.3% + $0.10 per transaction.

Even this article about the topic says the reason is because amex charges .5% - 1% more. Not 6-13% more.

Maybe it varies by country? Are you in NoAm or somewhere else?

M0oP0o,
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz avatar

I am in Canada, and amex is famous for charging way too much in merchant fees. They also charge it under a silly system based on the type of card used (the more “elite” the more the merchant pays).

Darkonion,

This might just be my insomnia talking, but I thought a reasonable idea might be to call and reduce the available credit by however much is comfortable. For me, it would be fairly reasonable to reduce it by 50%. I assume they use some kind of magicians handshake to value their company based on how much potential credit is out there… Maybe it’d do nothing though. Anyone know?

proudblond,

I am not a financial guru so hopefully someone will correct me if I’m wrong about this, but your credit score is affected positively the more available credit you have. So by voluntarily lowering your available credit, you’re actually hurting yourself way more than the card companies. At least I think that’s how it works, or rather one of many factors.

couch1potato,

This will do nothing except hurt your own credit score as your credit utilization will be higher

Saleh,

You guys use them for actual credit? To me it seems that in Europe they are mostly used as a debit card directly charging your account, but compatible with the global payment processing of them.

lmmarsano, (edited )

I thought credit was the main selling point.

  • Ability to dispute & reverse charges.
  • Flexibility to keep cash in an account earning higher interest until payment is due.
  • Not having to constantly check enough cash is in your low interest checking account (which you’ll keep low so your cash earns more interest elsewhere & to minimize losses in case of unauthorized debits).
bjoern_tantau,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar

You have an account that earns interest?

Last time I saw that was as a child.

But then again I was able to get a loan for my house at ridiculously low interest, so I’m not complaining too much.

SheeEttin,

HYSA exist. My checking account earns a pittance.

whats_a_lemmy,

You can occasionally find high interest checking accounts too, but they tend to have weird strings attached

Modern_medicine_isnt,

Well think of it like this. I keep an amount in my checking account (basically no interest) to cover the credit card bills. Extra I move out to an online savings account that does have a ddcent interest rate. By having a date when the CC bill comes due, I can check once a month (7 days before due) and move money if needed to cover the bill. So while the checking has practically no interest, I was getting close to 5% on the savings for a while. Still a far stretch from the 12% cds I got as a kid, but it’s something.

lmmarsano,

Yep, like this one, though it could earn more in bonds or investments.

Low-interest loans are great, too: if they don’t need to be repaid right away, they can be leveraged to earn back more than their cost.

CIA_chatbot,

That will also destroy your credit rating

SheeEttin, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

“Nonconsensual mutilation of a person or body part” includes just about every fighter or shooter game. They really want to have COD delisted over this?

acosmichippo,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

you’re missing some context in that.

“The sale of a product… which is patently offensive and lacks serious artistic value… (such as… images of… Nonconsensual mutilation of a person or body part”

insert joke about COD lacking artistic value, but clearly there is more to COD than just body mutilation.

SPRUNT,

“Patently offensive” and “lacks serious artistic value” are entirely subjective classifications. With those restrictions, any game with country music should be delisted.

Lembot_0004,

Wagner and Mahler: Listen, we have some really badass tracks. Use them! And nobody would dare to call this music “not art enough”.

bryndos,

Man, if i could get a patent on offending people . . . money, money money, win win win.

haloduder,

Artistic value is subjective.

That clause shouldn’t hold up in a court.

yeahiknow3,

To be fair, that would be fucking hilarious.

jaybone,

Some kid on COD said he fucked my mom and then he called me a faggot.

Seleni,

A ‘removed’?

joelfromaus,
@joelfromaus@aussie.zone avatar

Unironically, COD getting delisted would probably get mainstream media coverage and legitimate outrage from people who “don’t play video games” but actually do.

CIA_chatbot,

Also most movies, tv shows, books, every single religious text

ChicoSuave, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Fuckers are just propagating the fury without providing a fix. Are the censored games back or not? Because right now they aren’t. Put them back and make Mastercard do something about it now that they have staged their position. Collective Shout is playing both sides.

CameronDev, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games

Ok furry artists, you know what to do, I wanna see the filthiest Visa x MasterCard art you can dream off. Payment process me baby

puppycat,

not furry but someone already made mastercard-chan and visa-kun

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/f1bacfe8-6ec4-4718-90ed-e2193555fa35.webp

CameronDev,

Thats hot. And I am going to assume this is canon from now on.

Dreaming_Novaling, (edited )

Is this Merryweathery? I swear he’s always the one doing these gijinkas (Internet Explorer-chan, Twitter-chan, Switch-chan, etc.)

Edit: Just me or does Mastercard-chan have a bulge? Cause like… yes please…

puppycat,

it is!

Dreaming_Novaling,

Figured lol, he’s the usual culprit for any cute gijinka of a current trend.

nutsack,

no don’t do it

Vupware,

No, seriously, why don’t we bombard every customer service line with payment processor themed smut?

Phone sex,

Sex gifs,

Those geeek sculptures,

Etc

Eyekaytee, do games w [Update: Valve Responds] Mastercard Denies Pressuring Steam To Censor 'NSFW' Games
@Eyekaytee@aussie.zone avatar

so it was about potential brand damage that doesn’t exist? and/or has this actually brand damaged visa and mastercard more than ignoring collective shout?

halcyoncmdr,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

What I see is Mastercard hiding behind their generic rules for processors and being fine with the processors taking unilateral action that could damage their brand.

Mastercard should demand they rescind the decision based on a flawed interpretation of their rules since the content IS NOT ILLEGAL where Steam provides it, or drop those processors entirely due to the brand damage their unilateral decision has caused. If Mastercard lets this sit, that signals that they agree with this decision, regardless of what they say, and they should be treated as such.

NiHaDuncan,

Read mastercard’s actual rule that is literally in the OP. The processor’s interpretation isn’t flawed and in no way does Mastercard limit their rule to what is illegal.

The rule is so open ended and vague that it’s entirely on Mastercard (and Visa) that this shit happened.

halcyoncmdr,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

It is intentionally vague, because companies want to be able to weasel out of any and all accountability whenever possible.

But Mastercard isn’t off the hook either way even if we accept the rules as they are currently. Before this incident, Mastercard has been starting to censor adult content in general with rules changes. To the point where there was already a petition on the ACLU site about this exact type of censorship.

…aclu.org/…/mastercard-sex-work-work-end-your-unj…

Mastercard is trying to weasel their way out of this particular instance because they didn’t directly have a hand in this video game situation, even though they clearly would agree with it based on other recent changes. They’re trying to play both sides by assuming that people didn’t know they were already doing these things.

bouh,

What I read is that it is not about illegal content. It is about the measures taken to prevent illegal content from being sold. It’s much more devious than simple censorship.

atrielienz, (edited ) do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

Takes it all back because A. There was no review bombing, people who left mixed reviews had reasonable and valid complaints, and B. He reversed course as soon as people started pointing out how he was protesting quite a lot about exactly nobody calling him a Nazi.

gusgalarnyk, do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

I assumed pretty immediately upon hearing him in a couple of interviews that he was exactly this right winger camoflaughing as a centralist. I gave the game the benefit of the doubt because I hadn’t seen any hard evidence but I’ll stop talking kindly about the game based on this info.

Politics is how we organize our society. Most of everything is political. When society starts organizing movements against groups of people, stripping away rights, and generally being Nazis you have to get more political to stop them. Taking no position is taking a position. Join the rebellion or support the empire, there is no in-between.

Cris16228, do games w Ori Studio Head Says Review Bombing Might Force Studio Closure, Then Takes It All Back

Awwww and I wanted to buy and play them :(

Nikls94,

👒 🏴‍☠️ 🌊 🚢 you can still play them Arrr

Oughtakyk,

This is the way 🦜

Cris16228,

That’s when I wear the pirate hat but still! I saw a bundle with the first game :(

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