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soulsource, do gaming w Why there are few native Linux games compared to Windows or even Mac?
@soulsource@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’ll give you my point of view as game developer.

Disclaimer first: I work as a coder, everything I say about publisher interaction is second-hand knowledge.

We have made one Linux game. It was the first one of our two “indie” titles (quotation marks, because both of them ended up being partially funded by a publisher, so they weren’t really indie in the end), where we had promised a Linux build on Kickstarter, long before a publisher got involved.

The main reason why we did not do native Linux in our publisher-funded games is quite simple: Our publishers didn’t pay us for it.

There are actually some publishers who are very keen on getting native Linux versions for their games, but we sadly have not released a game with any of them yet…

The publishers we released games with did not agree to the buget that we think is needed to do a Linux port of sufficient quality. If we would lower the price for doing a Linux port to the point where our publishers would agree to it, we would take on a lot of financial risk ourselves, so this is sadly not an option.

If everything worked as it is advertised by engine developers, making a Linux version would be quite cheap: Just click a few buttons and ship it. This is, sadly, not the case in real-life, as there are always platform specific bugs in game-engines. Our one Linux game was made with Unity, and we had quite a few Linux-only bugs that we forwarded to the Unity devs (we didn’t have engine source code access), and had to wait for them to fix… For the engine we mainly use nowadays, Unreal, we have a rule-of-thumb: “Engine features that are used by Fortnite are usually well maintained.” There is no native Linux version of Fortnite… (We did try Unreal’s Vulkan RHI in Unreal 4.26 for Steam Deck support in one of our games. Let me put it this way: The game in question still uses Direct3D on Steam Deck.)

So, from experience we expect that the chance that we would have to find and fix Linux-specific engine bugs is quite high. Therefore we have to budget for this, what makes offering a native Linux version relatively costly compared to the platform’s market share. Costly enough to make our publishers say “no”.

This, by the way, also answers the question why publishers are willing to pay for the way more expensive console ports. There are also way more console players, and therefore potential customers out there…

(I can only guess, but I would expect publishers to be even more reluctant to pay for native Linux, now that WINE works so well that getting a game running on Linux needs typically zero extra work.)

schleudersturz,

There are many reasons.

  • Multiplayer games will only target Windows, officially, and might even ban Linux altogether because of the perception that anti-cheat is more costly, impossible, or just hard under Linux. True Kernel-level anti-cheat is not possible on Linux like it is on Windows but the real reason is risk: anti-cheat is an arms race between cheaters (and, critically, cheat vendors who would sell cheat tools to them) and developers and those developers want to limit the surface area they must cover and the vectors for new attacks.
  • The biggest engines, like Unreal, treat Linux as an after-thought and so developers who use those engines are not supported and have to undertake an overwhelming level of extra work to compensate or just target only Windows. When I was working on a UE5 project, recently, I was the only developer who even tried to work on Linux and we all concluded that Linux support was laughable if it worked at all. (To be fair to Tux the penguin: we also concluded that about 99.9% of UE5 was -if-it-worked-at-all and the other 50% was fancy illumination that nobody owned the hardware to run at 4k/60fps and frequently looked “janky” or a bit “off” in real-world scenarios. The other 50% was only of use to developers who could afford literal armies of riggers and modellers and effects people that we simply couldn’t hire and the final 66% was that pile of blueprints everyone refused to even look at because the guy who cobbled them together had left the team and nobody could make heads or tails of the tangle of blueprinty-flowcharty-state-diagramish lines. Even if the editor didn’t crash just opening them. Or just crash from pure spite.)
  • A very few studios, like Wube, actually have developers who live in Linux and it shows but they are very few and far between. (Factorio is one of the very nicest out-the-box, native Linux experiences one can have.) Even Wube acknowledge that their choice to embrace Linux cost them much effort. Recently, they wrote a technical post in their Friday Factorio Facts series about how certain desktop compositors were messing up their game’s performance. To me: this sort of thing is to be expected because games run in windows and render to a graphics surface that must be composited to some kind of visible rectangle that ends up on screen: after a game submits a buffer to be presented, nearly all of what happens next is outside of the games control and down to the platform to implement properly. Similarly, platform-specific code is unavoidable whenever one needs to do file I/O, input I/O, networking or any number of other, very common things that games need to do within the frame’s time budget – i.e. exceedingly quickly.
  • Projects which are natively developed on Linux benefit from great cross-compilation options to target Windows. This is even more true with the WSL and LLVM: you can build and link from nearly the same toolchain under nearly the same operating system and produce a PE .exe file right there on the host’s NTFS file-system. The turn-around time is minimal so testing is smooth. For a small or indie project or a new project, this is GREAT but this doesn’t apply to many older or bigger projects with legacy build tooling and certainly does not apply as soon as a big engine is involved. (Top tip: the WSL will happily run an extracted Docker image as if it was a WSL distribution so you can actually use your C/I container for this if you know how.)
  • Conversely, cross-compiling from Windows to Linux is a joke. I have never worked on a project that ever does this. Any project that chooses to support Linux ports their build to Linux (sometimes maintain two build mechanisms) if they weren’t building on Linux for C/I or testing, already, anyway. (Note: my knowledge of available Windows tooling is rather out of date – I haven’t worked with a team based on Windows for several years.)
  • Godot supports Linux very nicely in my experience but Godot is still relatively new. I expect that we might see more native Linux support given Godot’s increase in population.
  • What’s that? Unity? I am so very sorry for your loss …
  • If you’re not using a big engine, you have so many problems to handle and all of them come down to this: which library do you choose to link? Sound: Alsa, PulseAudio or Pipewire: even though Pipewire is newer and better, you’ll probably link PulseAudio because it will happily play to a Pipewire audio server. Input: do you just trust windows messages or do you want to get closer to some kind of raw-input mechanism? Oh: and your game window, itself? Who’s setting that up for you, pumping your events and messages and polling for draw? If your window appears on a Wayland desktop, you cannot know its size or position. If it’s on X11 or Win32, you can. I hope you’ve coded around these discrepancies!
  • More libraries: GLFW works. The SDL works. SDL 3 is lovely. In the Rust world, winit is grand. wgpu.rs is fantastic. How much expertise, knowledge and time do you have to delve into all these options and choose one? How many “story points” can you invest to ensure that you don’t let a dependency become too critical and retain options to change your choice and opt for a different library if you hit a wall? (Embracing a library is easy. Keeping your architecture from making that into a blood pact is not.)

NONE of this is hard. NONE of this is sub-optimal once you’ve wrapped it up tight. It is all just a massive explosion of surface-area. It costs time and money and testing effort and design prowess and who’s going to pay for that?

Who’s going to pay for it when you could just pick up a Big Engine and get the added bonus of that engine’s name on your slide-deck?

And, then, you’re right back in the problem zone with the engine: how close to “first-class” is its Linux support because, once you’re on Big Engine, you do not want to be trying to wrangle all of these aspects, yourself, within somebody else’s engine.

Xerxos, do gaming w *loads savefile*

And after the dialogue: a extremely hard boss fight. No saving while in dialogue or in combat.

Of course mandatory to advance the story.

MrScottyTay, (edited ) do games w Thoughts on Final Fantasy VII Remake

I loved the combat system, so I enjoyed every fight in game (except flying monsters in the first game if you didn’t have barret around). I think it’s my favourite hybrid combat system that allows both tactical and reactionary attacks and shines the most when you’re juggling between characters to get the ATB gauges up on everyone as quickly as possible so you have more toys to play with constantly.

The Yuffie DLC (Intermission) then expands upon the traversal mechanics and team based combat mechanics which were a whole lot of fun. A lot of this carried over to Rebirth as well but expanded upon again. Still ended up with Yuffie being one of the most fun to play though because she was originally designed to play mostly solo from her DLC, but having a character that is more fun to play isn’t a bad thing obviously.

Story wise, without spoiling too much, I love how, much like a lot of the mechanics, tries to expand upon old elements rather than outright replace them. And the story being some kind of pseudo-sequel where meta-textuality enhances the experience it ensures that these games are not replacements of the original. Which makes me laud it up in the highest regards. If they had just tried to replicate everything I think it would’ve felt even weirder it trying to be a wholesale replacement of the original like a lot of standard remakes try to be (think resi and silent hill). I don’t know how others can replicate what square is doing though since a lot of it is rooted in it’s story and doesn’t deviate far from the elements introduced in the original and the compilation games. Resi could not have replicated this intertextuality between versions of the game. You could argue silent hill could due to its story elements but they just focused on making it an enhanced version of the original.

I think I’m starting to ramble too much now so I’ll start to end it. I think the fact I can ramble about these games and gush about them so much shows how much I love them.

Other than astro bot rebirth was one of the most refreshing breaths in gaming for me, despite me more often than not despising both large open worlds and ubi style towers. Yet I felt compelled to almost 100% the game just due to the amount of fun I was having that I could just not get anywhere else.

And now I have two extra games (eventually three) I can regularly replay for my FFVII itch, alongside the original which has been a bi-yearly ritual to replay since before my age was in double digits. I couldn’t be happier. Though Rebirth will always be the highlight when replaying just due to the combat overhauls they made which in retrospect makes the first look like a tech demo.

neon_nova,

Thanks for your comment on this. I agree that flying enemies are annoying in the game. I did not realize they had improved the combat mechanics in the second game. That makes me interested in checking that one out.

MrScottyTay,

It’s a massive improvement too. The changes they made to materia make it more fun too.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

The synergy skill that allows you to have another party member throw you into the air at an enemy, when controlling a melee fighter, (Tifa, Cloud, Red) is so satisfying and welcome in Rebirth when fighting flying enemies.

MentalEdge,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Rebirth does something with the open world mechanics I haven’t seen in other games. It interconnects everything.

The life springs give you a shitton of materials for the crafting system, they reveal the locations of crafting recipes, and eventually the area boss.

All of which interconnects with side-quests, not just at the start as a tutorial, but throughout each region.

It hence manages to make you want to do everything, almost on accident. If you do all the sidequests, you progress the collectathon a bunch. If you do the collectathon, you end up progressing quests a bunch just by “coincidence”.

Add to that the fast travel that lets you jump anywhere instantly, and nothing ends up feeling like a chore.

MrScottyTay,

Think you’ve hit it on the nail on the head. It feels less like a chore because of the way they all connect with one another.

Although even before fast travel I still did a lot of manual travelling to get everything done. At least until I realised that fast travel was very likely to get better later in the game, which it of course did.

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duskfall, do gaming w Any Vermintide 2 players?

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duskfall, do gaming w Ever notice how there's a lot of Russophobia and racism against Russians in Counter-Strike games?

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BradleyUffner, do games w Thoughts on Final Fantasy VII Remake

I’m waiting until I can play the entire game at once instead of chapter by chapter.

neon_nova,

Due to the unnecessary padding to stretch the game out, I feel that you might get burned out.

hisao, do games w Unblocked Games 76 - Play Your Favorite Games Anytime, Anywhere!

I checked some random game, which should have assets worth few gb minimum, got redirected to shady mediafire link with 10mb archive. I don’t even have to download it to tell it’s a virus.

A_Very_Big_Fan, do gaming w Don't take damage, EZ
SealofLove,
DebatableRaccoon,

I’ve never understood and always despised that empty Nobody. It literally adds nothing other than making me hit the downvote no matter how good the rest of the meme is.

Poopfeast420, do gaming w Me, having neither somehow
@Poopfeast420@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Me, an adult, having tons of time and enough money to buy games.

puppycat,

congrats?

5in1k,

Me too. I won a lottery it feels like sometimes.

Dyskolos,

Me too. Having too many hobbies, too many games and a steam-backlog worth of like 50yrs continuous gaming 😂

MentalEdge, do games w Thoughts on Final Fantasy VII Remake
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I absolutely adore the remake games. They both follow a type of game-design that makes me feel like I’m playing something from the PS2 era again. Both the good and the bad. Makes me feel like a kid in the best kind of way.

The games do have some trouble with time-wasters. It’s both improved and made worse in Rebirth. Luckily, in open world fashion, a lot of it can actually be ignored in Rebirth. And if you don’t ignore it, you get rewarded with actually good side-content. And Rebirths fast travel is good to the point you basically never have to travel anywhere “the long way” twice.

I have the same problem with the combat being too easy. It wasn’t too bad with Intergrade as I was new to the combat system, but with Rebirth I am absolutely crushing enemies. I’m deliberately sabotaging my character builds to make it more challenging, but I really wish they didn’t lock “hard” behind ng+. Coming from the first game, you should be able to jump into the second at that higher skill level from the start. But no.

Don’t worry too much about your stuff not carrying over. The characters do not get reset to level zero, and no abilities. They start with a little less than what you have at the end of Intergrade, but a lot of the stuff you’ll have gotten by the end of Intergrade, is what you have at the start of Rebirth. And then over the course of the second game, you get a lot of NEW stuff, rather than just re-aquiring the stuff you had in the first.

megopie, (edited ) do gaming w Why Steam can be considered a monopolistic platform?

For them to be prosecuted as a monopoly, or be considered one legally, it would have to be shown that they achieved or maintain their dominant market position by preventing or undermining competition. Say by having a bunch of exclusivity deals to keep big name titles only on their storefront, or by buying out any competitor that gained traction.

Monopoly isn’t about being the biggest seller in a market, it’s about being the biggest player in the market by undermining competition and restricting commerce.

Edit: want to clarify there is a distinction between the legal meaning of monopoly (see the Sherman anti trust act and other subsequent laws and rulings) and the colloquial usage (Only seller in the market). Steam is nether.

BuboScandiacus,
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar
BuboScandiacus,
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar
Poopfeast420, do games w Thoughts on Final Fantasy VII Remake
@Poopfeast420@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I’ve played three time through Remake. First when it launched on Normal and Hard difficulty, and then again, last December in anticipation for Rebirth.

While I didn’t mind too much my first time, the game definitely has a lot of very slow sections. Like you mentioned, you are constantly forced to walk very slowly, wait for animations, etc. It really feels like Square tried to pad the game a lot.

I really liked the combat at first, but my on Hard difficulty it got terrible. I was always annoyed, that your other party members just stood around and never attacked. Rebirth fixed it a little bit, since they actually are doing stuff, just deal basically no damage and don’t get ATB charge. A few fights are also just terribly designed in my opinion, and Rebirth just doubled down here.

About things not carrying over, I was also a bit disappointed at first, that you basically have to start from scratch in Rebirth, but it wasn’t a big deal. The sequel has other, bigger problems, in my opinion, that drag it down.

The main reason I still like the game, are the characters. If not for them, the very first playthrough would have been enough.

stupidcasey, do gaming w Don't take damage, EZ

Dying a lot? Try taking less damage.

If you see an enemy you know it’s time for a fight.

Health potions heal you.

Your shield can shield you from damage.

Look mother fucker, you keep dying and I don’t think I can dumb it down any more, have you tried Candy Land?

MonkeyTown,

Hey candy land is difficult. I mean how can you play after you eat all the candies? Plus hospital tables aren’t ever big enough for the board!

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