bin.pol.social

ClammyMantis488, do gaming w Pet peeve, games that won't let you save

One of my favorite things about the DS family was its pick up and play nature. Sure not every game would let you save and quit, but you could just shut the lid and come back later and everything will still be right where you left it.

StantonVitales,

Same, and now one of my favorite things about the Switch and Steam Deck 👍

NuPNuA,

Steam Deck and all home consoles let you do that now. It’s only PC gamers who don’t have the function.

jherazob,
@jherazob@beehaw.org avatar

New to the Deck, am afraid to do that since it screwed up with Cloudpunk the one time i did it, just sent it to sleep with the power button and when it came back it had issues (don’t recall exactly what right now, a black screen i think) and remained until i did a full Deck reboot, feel like it’s a classic PC issue which makes sense, now i don’t send it to sleep until i’ve saved and quit

Blackmist,

Some games will fail on it. It’s more of a hack, than something that game devs coded for like they have to on other platforms.

Davel23, do gaming w Pet peeve, games that won't let you save

The thing I fucking hate is when the game doesn't make it obvious when a checkpoint is activated. Then you go to quit the game: "Everything since the last checkpoint will be lost". Well WHEN WAS THE LAST MOTHERFUCKING CHECKPOINT, ASSHOLE?

nlm,
!deleted4210 avatar

Yeah, it really can’t be that hard to show a saving indicator…

995a3c3c3c3c2424,

I hate that even when it is obvious. If I save and then immediately quit and it says “everything since the last save will be lost” I’m always paranoid that it means I didn’t actually save correctly.

Erk,

“obvious” means, I think, that it says something like “last saved 5 seconds ago”

995a3c3c3c3c2424,

I mean, I hate that too. “I’m going to lose 5 seconds of progress?! Oh no!” It ought to be able to see that I didn’t do anything progress-relevant in those 5 seconds and just skip the dialog…

fuzzywolf23,

Now you’re talking about doing a save state comparison to avoid one line of dialogue. Have fun with the preceding lag spike, I guess.

Skates,

Add counters to progression:
20/180 quests completed
1805/9456 dialogue choices explored
567/568 npcs killed
95/102 areas explored
And whatever else you define as progress

Add this info into your save data. When quitting the game, open the most recent save, read the counters, compare to current values, display a nondescript “you’ve had a little/a lot of/no progress since you last saved, are you sure you want to quit without saving?” Shouldn’t take so long that it triggers a lag spike, I don’t think.

sukhmel,

Will a change in position be considered a progress though? How far?

There are a lot of questions to answer in such a case, so I’d argue that a timer is good enough

AnonymousLlama, do gaming w What game mechanics do you love and hate?
@AnonymousLlama@kbin.social avatar

Having well placed saved points and QOL features is absolutely amazing. I'm not interested in spending 10-15m running back / repeating myself just because the save progression system is rubbish. A lot more developers are more respectful of your time in that regard so it's a great improvement

Addfwyn,

I feel save points themselves are becoming an increasingly archaic design choice. Just let us save anywhere, especially in a single player game. I think most people are just suspending games without expressly saving most of the time.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It's going to depend on the game. If you're making a game like Resident Evil, half of that game's brilliance is in where it puts its save points.

Addfwyn,

Totally fair. Particularly in survival horror where saves are explicitly limited to highten tension, that makes sense.

Squirrel, do gaming w Pet peeve, games that won't let you save
@Squirrel@thelemmy.club avatar

That’s a large part of why, with older games, I prefer to use emulators, even if they’re available to me in other ways. I love the “save state” option. It’s terribly exploitable, of course, but it sure is convenient to be able to save literally anywhere.

howsetheraven,

The exploitable argument never made sense to me for single player games. I play Fallout, if I wanted anything and everything with a 100ft tall character, every companion, and infinite health. But of course I don’t do any of that because it would ruin my own fun.

conciselyverbose,

I get what you're saying, but save scumming is a pretty easy trap to fall into.

Coelacanth,

@conciselyverbose

I agree, though I think part of why that is is that so few games make failure interesting. The only one I can think of that truly accomplished making failure compelling is Disco Elysium.

conciselyverbose, (edited )

I'm perfectly fine with it being a setting you can disable, but I do personally strongly prefer a game to enforce some kind of save restriction.

Coelacanth,

Again, I see the desire to savescum as a symptom more than anything else. If you find yourself reaching for the quickload button, it's because the game didn't make it interesting enough to keep going despite something going wrong.

This is at least the case for choice-based situations, where it's incredibly common for there to be an "optimal route" and for the alternative or failure-state to be much inferior in both rewards and enjoyment.

For games where overcoming a challenge is the primary experience, such a beating a Dark Souls boss, then sure. Being able to quicksave at the start of each phase of a boss would be bad since the point is to overcome the challenge of managing to scrape through the entire fight.

conciselyverbose,

I think that's a matter of preference. I don't think many video games have good writing (even compared to a lot of casual popular "beach read" type books), so I get my story telling from however many audiobooks I can squeeze into 2x 40-50 hours a week. I want challenges in games and I want distinct fail states to punish failure.

Piers,

The issue from a design perspective is that many players have a tendency to optimise the fun out of the games they play. Meaning that if there is a fun thing to do that you carefully made for them to enjoy but there’s an unfun thing to do that wasn’t the point but is a slightly more effective strategy, many players will find themselves drawn to do the unfun thing and hate playing the game, whereas if they had only had the option to do the fun thing, they would have done, wouldn’t have cared in the slightest about the lack of a hypothetical better strategy not existing and loved the time they spent with the game.

Good game design always has to meet people where they are and attempt to ensure they have a great experience with the game irrespective of how they might intuitively approach it.

So… Not having ways for players to optimise all the fun out of their own experience is an important thing to consider.

Mummelpuffin,
@Mummelpuffin@beehaw.org avatar

I’m this person and god do I wish I wasn’t, sometimes. So many games have been way less interesting than they could’ve been for me because for me, fun is learning to play the game well. I’m not sure what frustrates me more, the way people who don’t have that attitude say “I play games to have fun” as if I don’t, or me looking at the recent LoZ games as failures design-wise because they’re too easy to cheese.

Piers,

I definitely lean this way too, though I’ve become better able to step away from that mindset in games I want to enjoy without it.

I think part of what has helped for me is, having an awareness of that tendency, I now try to actively feed or restrict it.

IE, I play a lot of games where that is the intended fun experience. Stuff like Magnum Opus (or any Zachtronic’s title), Slay the Spire (or other roguelikes), Overwatch (or other competitive games) are all designed from the ground up for the fun to be in playing the game at the highest level of execution possible (some more mechanically others more intellectually.) I try to make sure I’m playing something like that if I feel like I’m at all likely to want to scratch that optimisation itch with that gaming session.

Otherwise, when playing games where that isn’t really the point, I find it easier to engage with the intended experience knowing that if I want to do the optimisation thing I could switch to something that is much more satisfying for that, but I also try to optimise how well I do the thing the game wants. If it’s a roleplaying game, I might try to challenge myself to most perfectly do as the character would actually do, rather than what I might do, or what the mechanics of the game might incentivise me to do. Often that can actually lead to more challenging gameplay too as you are restricting yourself to making the less mechanically optimal choices because you’ve challenged yourself to only do so where it aligns with the character.

NuPNuA,

Diablo 4 was a perfect example of this. People were optimising their run to the end then complaining about a lack of content within a week. Then there’s people like me who spent a good 60 hours already with plenty of stuff still to do as I’m enjoying my journey.

Piers,

One of the more important skills of good game design is to understand that whenever your players are complaining about something, there is something wrong that you need to identify and address whilst also recognising that it’s rarely the thing the players think is what’s wrong (as they just see the negative end result) and that they tend to express those complaints as demands for the solution they think is best to what they think the problem is.

In this case players are yelling at Blizzard “There’s not enough content!” when in fact, as you’ve observed, there actually is plenty of content, it’s just (seemingly, I’ve not actually played it myself to say for sure first hand) that Blizzard made it too easy to optimise your way past all of that content as a minor inconvenience on your way to, uh, nothing.

The answer to the problem is twofold. One you need to plug those holes in your balance so players are no longer incentivised to optimise their way past actually playing and enjoying your game (now I talk about it I think I vaguely remember reading an article that Blizzard are doing exactly that and having a hard time cleanly pitching the benefits of it to the player-base, which is why you also need to.) Two, try to put the horse back into the stable by now, sadly, actually having to create the end game content that players have bursted their way through to because your game design unintentionally promised it would be there (or just write those players off as a lost cause. Which seems like a dreadful idea as they are the ones who were the most passionate early buyers of your product…)

Alternatively… If they’d caught these issues before release (which is often, though not always, a matter of giving the developers and designers the resources to do so) they could simply have caught those issues of optimal builds being too powerful for the content and adjusted either or both to be a better match and ended up with a title that players liked more than they will like the harder to make version Blizzard now needs to turn Diablo 4 into (not to mention, that the work they need to do to introduce worthwhile end-game content could have just gone to a paid expansion for their more well regarded release instead.)

But then the Bobby Kotick’s of the world are boastfully proud of their complete inability/unwillingness to think about the development of their games in that way so here we are…

ghostalmedia, do gaming w What game mechanics do you love and hate?
@ghostalmedia@beehaw.org avatar

Love - auto health or shield regen. When I first experienced that in Halo it made me instantly hate other games that didn’t have some form of that mechanic.

I hate managing health inventory items. It breaks gameplay flow with tedious bullshit that isn’t nearly as fun as focusing on the a combat mechanic.

papabobolious,

I’m exactly the opposite. I feel like regeneration makes avoiding damage feel trivial and doesn’t reward you for playing well.

TheRoarer,

You also have to wait around hiding to heal INSTEAD of playing the game. Same thing with reloading. That's why doom 2016 and eternal so good.

magic_lobster_party,

Auto health makes the game oriented around taking as much cover as possible. You just pop out, shoot, and then jump back to hiding again.

The newer Doom games for example uses limited health to force you be that cool action hero who is participating in the action. Health is regained by killing enemies. If they had regen the player would just be back to hiding behind covers like cowards.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Doom was interesting because it was a solution to both of those problems at once. Doom shouldn't be a cover shooter, but hunting for health packs is not action packed or fun, so the enemies became health packs.

JackbyDev,

The Estus Flask in Dark Souls was great. You couldn’t spam a million of them on a boss fight but you also got them all back when you were safe. There wereots of things to dislike but that was a major positive. And to your point, it’s not buried in a menu either. It’s just right there.

titey, do gaming w Which Dragon Age games are worth playing?
@titey@lemmy.home.titey.net avatar

Dragon Age Origins, this is the way.

Sonotsugipaa, do gaming w What game mechanics do you love and hate?
@Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I absolutely loathe double tap to dodge mechanics.
Terraria does this, everyone who played it with me thinks it’s reasonable to fear accidentally dodging into an enemy when trying to walk slowly with a keyboard.
This is 10 times worse on controllers, because dodging just becomes irritating and janky as fuck - if I need to dodge a bullet, I don’t want to fight the kinetic energy of my finger for an entire fourth of a second and hope I am fast enough.

bermuda,

this genuinely made me ragequit cyberpunk 2077 more than once. The game has a double tap to dodge mechanic that you cannot turn off (last I checked, at least) and is active even when crouching, and you dodge like 2 meters forward or a meter in any other direction. This means that stealth is borderline impossible if you’re on keyboard and are not very deliberate with your button presses. One accidental double tap and oops now the ENTIRE warehouse knows where you are (another major flaw with cyberpunk’s stealth system)

Coelacanth,
@Coelacanth@feddit.nu avatar

There is a way to change this via mods, if you’re still interested in Cyberpunk. I just finished my first playthrough and one of the first things I did was figure out how to rebind Dodge to Alt.

The Silent Silencers mod and Stealthrunnner also makes stealth much more enjoyable.

Hellebert, do gaming w I hate how much my brain starts remembering interesting stuff when I finally sit down to play a video game

Ha, mine does this when I lay down and want to go to sleep, it’s pretty damn annoying.

Video games have always been a great distraction from things for me instead.

Thebazilly, do gaming w Which Dragon Age games are worth playing?

I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I really love Dragon Age: Inquisition. It has huge flaws, yes. Chiefly having way too much generic filler sidequesting.

Do note that you’ll need the DLC to get the most important part of the story. (Thanks EA.)

To be fair, I am not the model series fan. I gave up on Origins in the 12 hours of identical dungeon corridors underneath the dwarf city. Never played DA2. Love KotOR, Jade Empire (still holds up surprisingly well!), and Mass Effect, though.

the_itsb,

the 12 hours of identical dungeon corridors underneath the dwarf city

ugh, this just gave me real, visceral dread, and I haven’t played that stage in at least 5 years!

it was so, so HARD. Also I’m a filthy casual and everything is hard for me, but jfc that area kicked my whole ass repeatedly.

GTG3000, do gaming w Pet peeve, games that won't let you save

Reason is “Game state is hard”.

If you want to save, you gotta be able to take the current state of everything and serialize it, then read what you’ve serialized and put it back. If you only do checkpoints, you can make assumptions about game state and serialize less.

Generally, it is much easier to develop AI and such when you never have to pull it’s state out and then restore it, because if that is done improperly you get bugs like the bandits in STALKER forgetting they were chasing you after a quicksave-quickload because their state machine is reset.

With checkpoints, you can usually say “right, enemies before here? Dead or dealt with. Enemies after here? they’re in their default state. Player is at this position in space. Just write down the stats and ignore the rest.”

And autosaves just make it one less menu to fiddle with.

Send_me_nude_girls, (edited ) do gaming w What game mechanics do you love and hate?
@Send_me_nude_girls@feddit.de avatar

I hate

  • quick time events,
  • minimaps,
  • questmarker,
  • RPGs without story changing decisions,
  • random generated loot (drop chance is fine),
  • lack of class or profession decision (one character can do all sucks),
  • random generated weapon/gear stats
  • coop where process isn’t shared to every player. Requires a multiple saves system to allow single player, as well as coop play, saves.
  • enemy level scaling with player level,
  • fully breaking weapon without being able to repair them
  • bound items. Seriously, this needs to stop. I’d like to share my gear with guild mates or my other characters. I want to be able to sell a good item again if I don’t need it. But so far only Ragnarok Online managed to do this well, that I know of.
  • MMORPG with fixed marketplace, like fixed prices, build in price statistics etc. ruining a possible economy focused gameplay in favor of the lazy and dumb players, who complain… because they are not skilled enough.
  • non MMORPGS with NPC that don’t move or have daily activities. Gothic did this so we’ll decades ago, I thought this would be standard by now
  • any pay2win element
  • any pay2skip grind purchases
  • any quality of life wallet gated
  • Battle-pass, season-pass, fomo bullshit

What I love

  • weather and seasons
  • music instruments, music class or weapons
  • hidden treasures you need to dig for or find treasure maps
  • NPC that have activities and are not glued to their vending table
  • animal follower
  • jumpsuit/glider
  • destroyable environment/footsteps
  • weapon degradation and maintenance
  • professions and weapon/gear crafting
  • alchemy like in Kingdom Come Deliverance
  • NPC that tell you where to go, instead of a questmarker and path showing you where to go,
  • able to respec my stat points only
  • verticality in Level Design, like Dark Souls 1
  • fishing with a bit of a challenge other than just pushing a button in time
  • character customization, hair, skin, body size, height, voice
  • fashion slots, like Terraria and now also Cyberpunk2077
  • changing cities through actions I did in the game. NPC got killed, house destroyed/build etc.
Mandy, do gaming w I hate how much my brain starts remembering interesting stuff when I finally sit down to play a video game

I don’t think I have ever seen Wikipedia used as a verb before, funky

soben, do gaming w Pet peeve, games that won't let you save

I just watched a video that covered this in part. You want to keep the player immersed in the game experience. The more interfaces you give them, the more they’re taken out of the experience.

So autosaves are a great way to keep the user interacting with the game and feeling immersed.

nlm,
!deleted4210 avatar

Autosaves are great and all… I just want to be able to quit whenever. There’s usually a confirmation when you’re trying to quit anyway. Just save and quit then. :P

I’m glad at least some games still allow you to do that.

vanquesse,

The easiest way to break immersion is frustration. Not adding options to take color blindness into account does not add immersion for colorblind people because it’s more like the real world or has less UI. It adds frustration and ruins any chance of them being immersed. What frustrates us is not a universal and static list of concepts, so neither is immersion.

insomniac_lurker, do gaming w What game mechanics do you love and hate?

I love fast travel, warp gates, teleporting and anything that makes it easier and faster for me to get from Point A to Point B.

“Scenery is pretty.” Don’t care.

“Look at the extra content.” I’ll look if I want to. Don’t force it.

While I enjoy casual and relaxed games, taking forever to walk to where I want to go is neither casual nor relaxed. I wanna be where I wanna be in game and don’t pad on the gameplay hours with slow transport options.

SamPond, do gaming w I hate how much my brain starts remembering interesting stuff when I finally sit down to play a video game
@SamPond@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

A lot of things can cause “the mind to wander” and, frankly, I’m not a health professional but as a person who sometimes has trouble focusing I somewhat sympathize. There are times when I simply can’t sit down and enjoy myself, and there’s nothing that can be done about that. Usually times of high stress and anxiety.

But outside of those extreme cases, there’s generally a few things here and there that can help alleviate. The first, and maybe almost stupidly obvious one, is to do some of those tasks beforehand. I don’t have to stress about doing the dishes or paying the bills or returning a call if I just do it beforehand. Logging into the bank app is just 5 minutes, why worry about it otherwise.

Another is to get comfortable and shut yourself off. Leave your phone in a place you can’t reach from wherever you’re gaming (or watching a movie, or reading or studying. Your phone should actually be in a different room every time you don’t immediately need it) as well as any other electronic devices. Close the windows and doors, turn off your PC. Make it a bother to stop enjoying yourself.

Take a bathroom break (or if its in the evening, a shower+grooming) and maybe have a snack or a full meal. Have a bottle of water nearby. That crosses out basic biologic annoyances (until you need a pee break but that’s at least a healthy obstacle).

Exercise a bit. Sounds out there, but exhausting yourself physically isn’t only healthy, it also takes your mind off a lot of things. Since that’s a relatively boring activity that can also have your mind wander, have some podcasts handy, but something light and preferably with 2+ hosts so you can have several voices in your head that aren’t yours but also don’t need to follow a story or anything heavy. Going on a walk while listening to a 1 hour episode should be good enough (and something we all should do regardless of attention issues)

On the subject of podcasts, I’ve found that some games aren’t gripping enough to draw my attention or are repetitive enough that I don’t need to dedicate all of my attention to them, so I’ve dubbed them Podcast Games and do both at the same time. Roguelikes do very well in this regard, as well as management games, or anything that isn’t story heavy (or if the story blows) and where the sound isn’t exactly necessary.

And sometimes, ultimately, maybe you just aren’t really in the mood for a game. There are hobbies of mine that I enjoy, but don’t do much because I’m not “in the zone” as often, like reading or watching a TV series. So if gaming is like that for you, swap around and enjoy yourself, time spent doing something you like isn’t time wasted.

Optional: I’ve found that I’m much better at sitting down and watching a movie or a show when I have someone alongside me to chat up. Maybe having someone along to play/watch together, or simply streaming through Discord for a friend might be a solution. You’d be surprised at how many other people are also bored and would accept an invite to watch you play while chatting about their day.

vent,

Really excellent reply!

kresten,

I appreciate the time you put into writing your reply!

TheOakTree,

Close the windows and doors, turn off your PC.

What if I game on my PC ;-;

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