games

Magazyn ze zdalnego serwera może być niekompletny. Zobacz więcej na oryginalnej instancji.

cloud, w I wonder why Godot and Unreal are getting so much interest today

Because people learn their lessons only when they get punched in the face

jack,

I doubt they will learn from this

Da_Boom,
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Except this licencing change removes sustainability from all licencing models except the ones that run subscription models or advertising.

Now they say they aren’t going to impose this crap over any not for profit or for profit that’s earning revenue under 200K. But I have serious doubts that certain scenarios are going to slip through the cracks.

What it is essentially a way to bleed any viral indie game studio dry of their capital, which could force them to declare bankruptcy and sell off their assets.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a way to build a unity game studio.

  1. Game goes viral and reaches the threshold of 200K+ revenue
  2. Every install and reinstall of the game gets charged, costs start to outweigh profits.
  3. Money drains fast with no way to stop it.
  4. Indie company declares bankruptcy due to cash flow issues
  5. Unity demands payment for unpaid bills in assets - gets the ownership of game title as payment.
  6. Unity opens game studio and continues to sell the game, while employing minimal Devs to maintain it.

Bam! they’ve a bunch of viral hits completely for free under their umbrella in a bunch of payments. And because they own the engine, they can make money hand over fist while stopping everyone else from doing the same.

That said I’m sure they have separate payment and licencing deals with big AAA companies. So really it’s only the indie companies that end up with a viral hit that get screwed.

So the other option is that they do not open a game studio and they’re merely just doing big techs dirty work and taking out their competition, while providing IP fire sales for big tech.

That said, once the company goes after a group for failure to pay this money, I wouldn’t be surprised if a legal fight ensued in order to declare the terms of service unenforceable and/or anti consumer and have them nullified or forcibly rewritten/reverted. If that happens I’m sure the EFF or other non profit software foundation will end up providing legal funding and or services. Heck it could end up being a class action.

jack,

That 6-step plan is very evil, I love it. Hopefully people will now understand that proprietary software always leads to abuse. Everyone should switch to Godot.

lorez,

What about the tons of games that already exist and we bought? What about the games being worked on right now? This is a disaster for indies.

jack,

Yup.

NateNate60,

2022: OnlyFans wanted to ban porn

2023: Unity wants to kill free-to-play games

Shizu, w EA confirms The Sims 5 will be free-to-play and co-exist alongside The Sims 4

“Motherlode”: $4.99 for 25k Simleons

tiwenty, w Nintendo Direct announced for tomorrow

choo choo Switch 2 choo choo

Rynelan,

Even though I would love to hear news about the new console… I’m fairly sure this will not be the moment

tiwenty,

I agree ^^

smallaubergine,

Switch U

caseyweederman,

New Switch U XL

smeg,

& Knuckles?

caseyweederman,

Oh man, people are releasing physical copies of new games on retro consoles, right? Is anybody making a game that you can plug into the Sonic & Knuckles cartridge?

smeg,

I think the Sonic & Knuckles cartridge could be added to any game and it would generate a new level based on the content of it, but I’d love to see someone check!

samus12345, (edited ) w Starfield hasn’t hurt No Man’s Sky’s popularity – it may have even helped it
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Starfield held my interest for a week. It’s okay, but it’s my least favorite polygon-based Bethesda game besides F76. The aging engine just wasn’t made for a game of this scope. I tried No Man’s Sky and didn’t like it, just not my thing.

HIMISOCOOL,

I’ve played to 150 on fo76, the funniest thing to me is that npcs were an after thought for 76 and still feel more real than starfields citizens… So odd

Pxtl, (edited ) w I wonder why Godot and Unreal are getting so much interest today
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

People switching to Unreal are like the ex-Twitter users who went to Tumblr and Threads.

nothingcorporate,

Certainly Godot is the safer bet (probably why they are surging so much more right now), but Unreal is nowhere near as bad as Threads. Unreal is open source, and the license specifically forbids Epic from making retroactive changes like Unity just did:

  1. The Agreement Between You and Epic

a. Amendments

If we make changes to this Agreement, you are not required to accept the amended Agreement, and this Agreement will continue to govern your use of any Licensed Technology you already have access to.

driving_crooner,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

I was really confused because from some reason I was thinking that Unreal and Unity were the same.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Unreal is not open source, it’s source-available. Open source generally gives freedoms like redistribution, yet that is explicitly not allowed by Unreal. To get access to the source, you need to agree to a licensing agreement with them.

That said, source-available is a lot better than most proprietary software licenses.

raptir, (edited )

You’re confusing “free” (as in freedom) with open-source.

ETA: you’re correct that Unreal is source available, but a lot of what you listed is not required to be open source.

jack,

Are you stupid? Read the definition of open source

sugar_in_your_tea,

What did I mention that’s not part of the open source definition? Btw, I’m using this one, and only mentioned redistribution, which is the first one:

The license shall not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license shall not require a royalty or other fee for such sale.

The next big part is able derivative works, which is also not allowed as part of the Unreal license AFAIK.

jack, (edited )

This is the only definition and @raptir clearly hasn’t read it before trying to correct you.

jack, (edited )

Source-available is just as bad as proprietary as it distracts from the freedom that open source/free software gives. It also undermines open source by confusion which you are trying to clear up right now. Don’t legitimize source-availability

sugar_in_your_tea,

That’s only true if you’re talking about the goals of open source/free software generally.

If we’re just talking about a game engine and releasing games, being able to modify the engine is absolutely critical when optimizing a large game. So having source available is absolutely a very practical thing when using proprietary software.

So it really depends on what you’re concerned about. Source available is just as good as open source in most cases if your goal is to build closed source software. If your goal is to build open source/free software, it’s awful.

jack, (edited )

In most cases you are NOT allowed to modify source-available code, just to look at it

sugar_in_your_tea,

I’m pretty sure you can always modify code for personal use, you just can’t always distribute those changes. In the case of a game engine, this would mean you could modify the engine code in development, but you could not release your game with those changes in.

Unreal allows modification and distribution, but only if you’re a licensed user and only for your combined work, but you cannot distribute your own fork of Unreal, aside from a patch set for other developers.

BaskinRobbins, w I wonder why Godot and Unreal are getting so much interest today

Charging per install has to be the most out of touch insane choices they could have made.

kaitco,

There is zero rationality behind the decision, especially given that it’s retroactive and there’s no language in their decision that handles unique user versus multiple users versus multiple accounts.

I’ve had two gaming PCs over the last ten years. On my last one, I replaced the hard drive twice, and I’m on my second hard drive on the newest one. With each hard drive replacement, I’ve had to reinstall all my games. I’m not paying for all of them again with each install but just getting the same files off Steam and installing again. According to this decision, the devs of these games would have had to pay Unity four extra times just due to my hardware upgrades. How is that on the developer at all, and Lord help us if Unity tries to run some BS where players have to pay for each new installation.

The entire gaming industry, even from the “disc era”, doesn’t work with a cost per install model.

Chailles,
@Chailles@lemmy.world avatar

Not to mention that it’s such a sudden announcement. I mean, sure, they gave people 3 months notice in advance, but when you consider the scale of many games probably take longer than 3 months to make the decision AND actually make the switch (or make up for the switch), it’s cause for quite a bit of harm.

Granted, the majority of people may not be affected by it due to needing to meet a requirement of like earning $200,000 and 200,000 installs at a minimum, but I feel like the once you reach that, it’s just downhill from there.

In addition to your example of costing the devs for reinstalling the game, you now have to consider the possibility of a user (or group of users) maliciously reinstalling their games to financially damage the developer. Sure, Unity says they’ll have fraud detection for stuff like that, but then it’s literally up to the people you owe money to decide whether you should pay more or less money to them.

fsxylo,

Someone claims here that if you use Unity’s internal Ad API then you will make that money back, giving people who put ads in their games a free pass.

If true, Unity is trying to force indie devs to enshittify their products.

kaitco,

Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse…

echodot,

That’s exactly what they’re trying to do because their CEO is a nut job crazy man who’s grasp of business economics is embarrassing even when compared to my cats.

okamiueru,

The guy praised Elon. So I would imagine him being equality void of intelligence.

Bread, (edited )

The problem with that is that it relies on the idea that people are able/willing to pay and aren’t willing to try something else. Game devs are naturally technical people who are okay with trying new things if their current solution stops being an option. Then there are indie devs who must work cheaply or they will not make anything off their games.

Its a bold strategy cotton, let’s see how it plays out for them.

SlikPikker,

Unity is, after all, an advertising company.

It’s where they get their money.

mustardman,

They actually explicitly stated as such:

Q: If a user reinstalls/redownloads a game / changes their hardware, will that count as multiple installs?

A: Yes. The creator will need to pay for all future installs. The reason is that Unity doesn’t receive end-player information, just aggregate data.

Grass,

Doesn’t steam let you download games you purchased that have since been removed? Will they try to bill developers still in this case?

mustardman, (edited )

Yeah. You theoretically can financially DDOS a developer.

Pyr_Pressure,

Curious if they would charge once install was completed or once install commences.

If I try to install a game and for whatever reason it fails, and I have to try again, would they charge for two installs?

mosiacmango,

Probally an api call that goes out to Unity once you start a game and the engine comes online.

Im sure they would love to charge devs the instant we click a download link though.

p03locke,
@p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

An API call that could be faked. Easily.

Imagine a bot network that screws over a developer because of fake installer API calls.

JokeDeity,

Imagine that bot only targets games developed in house and fucks the assholes back.

cantsurf,

Who knew software development involved so much anal sex?

bastion,

Bye, Unity! It’s nice to know you’ve gone evil, so that even if you backpedal on this, we’ll know never to trust you again…

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

On the upside, you think this will end the epidemic of worthless asset flips?

azertyfun, (edited )

One hour before that Q&A went live:

PM: Hey Steve! Yes, you from development! How can the, uh, that runtime of yours, tell if it’s a new install or a reinstall?
S: As of right now it can’t, we just have aggregate data. We’d need to update it to support that. We have an item on the backlog already if you –
PM: No need! I have all the information I need!

Moonrise2473,

How can be retroactive?

I mean legally. The devs agreed to a contract, it can’t be changed with different economic terms later

If someone published an Unity game 4 years ago, has now abandoned the project, doesn’t release any update, why needs to pay a per install fee “for supporting the runtime”? The version is now ancient. I could understand if it was “from version xx.yy”

AeroLemming,

I’ve been asking this and never got an answer. I think the answer is that it isn’t.

Saledovil,

I also asked the question, and got an answer. The hypothesis is that they’ll release new versions under a different license, also meaning that if the devs never agree to the new license, they’d avoid the fee. Of course, that would mean that any engine level bugs in their game would become unfixable. This also means that large developers would be exempt, as they likely have contracts in place that supersede the license agreement.

AeroLemming,

Doesn’t that go directly contrary to what they actually said, though? They explicitly stated that existing games would be affected.

Saledovil,

Could also be. I’m not sure about how the legal situation works exactly. My understanding is that you can’t change a contract, such as a license agreement without the other party’s consent. Maybe they have a clause in it allowing them to revoke the existing licenses, meaning the developers would be forced to agree to the new license or be without a license.

AdolfSchmitler,

Im trying to think like a money hungry, out of touch POS CEO here.

Unity uses a subscription model right? Where each year you have to renew it and agree to new ToS. Well if they just put in their new ToS that companies have to pay retroactive fees and that company “agrees” to those ToS, then that means it’s not illegal since they technically “agreed” to it…

Hope to he’ll it doesn’t hold up in court but if Unity goes through with this who knows.

AeroLemming,

Oh yeah, I was thinking about the income sharing rules when you don’t buy a subscription. The people who need Pro features are fucked.

JokeDeity,

This feels so wrong to me that I feel like they must be going against some law, or they need to be sued to set precedent. I’m not a lawyer, I just think this smells completely like a giant corporation scamming people.

DocBlaze, (edited )

oh no stop, please, don’t make John riccatello tell us to hold his beer. think of his track record at EA. the out of touch competition isn’t even at full stakes yet. I have a feeling more is coming before the IPO.

Blamemeta, w Starfield Bug Forces Players to Change Gender to Fire Guns

So animations get fucked up, and you can fix them with racemenu? Sounds about right, anyone with loverslab experience could tell you that.

Naz,

Loverslab Starfield confirmed

Blamemeta,

You jest, but it has an entire section dedicated to it. And just look at the size of this thread. loverslab.com/…/217203-sex-mod-framework-developm…

Getallen, w I wonder why Godot and Unreal are getting so much interest today

Well thats another company imploding on itself, really colors you surprised, sinks you, causes your submarine to turn into a crushed soda can.

nanoUFO,
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s what happens when you make a company public and all they want is return on their investment yesterday.

sugar_in_your_tea,

That’s a leadership issue though. The CEO’s job is to communicate expectations to the board and balance long term and short term returns.

Da_Boom,
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Except a lot of companies and investors don’t really care about long term profit anymore anyway.

sugar_in_your_tea, (edited )

That’s a popular quip, but it’s just not true. If it were, Unity would lay off most of its staff and only do bug fixes. That way they’d save a ton on salary, and they probably wouldn’t lose any customers for a couple years until they fall far enough behind, so their quarterly financials would look great for about a year until they started losing customers.

This isn’t that. This is just a classic example of the leadership not understanding the business they’re in and trying to maximize profit. I think they overestimate the value of their product and what their customers are willing to pay for.

wahming, w Dune: Spice Wars review: a compulsive 4X that both nails and wastes its source material

Was interested, but looking at the steam reviews there’s no campaign, just a bunch of strung together skirmish maps. And it sounds like another case of EA abandoned as full release.

sugar_in_your_tea,

I loved Dune on Sega Genesis, and it had a great campaign IIRC. It’s too bad, because if this had a decent campaign, I’d probably get it out of nostalgia.

raptir,

There’s a campaign, just not a story mode. It’s a conquest-style, like what Dune 2 pretended to have (but was obviously scripted). Like Dawn of War: Dark Crusade or Soul Storm.

wahming,

So… Just a bunch of strung together skirmish maps?

Oneeightnine, w [Spoilers] If you finish Starfield 4 or 5 times, some seriously weird s*** starts happening
!deleted4231 avatar

I’m honestly amazed that anyone could have completed it more than once already. I’ve played it every day since Friday and I feel like I’ve barely got out of the opening seconds of the game.

davepleasebehave,

I haven’t even finished Elden ring. but that’s apparently a skill issue.

BeardedGingerWonder,

Any % speedrun is already under an hour!

InfiniteLoop,

another article said a ng+ run is about 90 minutes. so it seems if you just wanna complete loops, the post-game is a much different pace than your first run

Cylusthevirus, w Starfield Bug Forces Players to Change Gender to Fire Guns
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

THIS IS THE FUTURE LIBERALS WANT /s

SatanicNotMessianic, w Dune: Spice Wars review: a compulsive 4X that both nails and wastes its source material

Do sonic tanks have one mapsquare greater range than turrets, making choosing House Atreides an I Win button?

It’s been about 30 years since Dune 2 came out.

LucasWaffyWaf, w Starfield Bug Forces Players to Change Gender to Fire Guns

Brb, starting on HRT so I can regain my 2nd Amendment right.

Ertebolle,

Gives a whole new meaning to the word "deadname"

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Be gay, do crime.

tal,
@tal@kbin.social avatar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Pistols

The Pink Pistols are an LGBTQ gun rights organization in the United States and Canada. Their motto is "Pick on someone your own caliber".[1]

Pink Pistols enrollment up.

gravitas_deficiency, w Unity bosses sold stock days before development fees announcement, raising eyebrows

SEC has entered the chat

NateNate60, w I wonder why Godot and Unreal are getting so much interest today

I can’t believe Godot surpassed Unreal in interest. Astonishing moment.

I really hope Godot becomes the Blender of game engines.

metaStatic,

I really want a game staring the default cube now.

The final boss would of course be a doughnut.

danwardvs,

Default Cube is a playable character in Super Tux Kart, although unofficially through a user created addon which can be downloaded through the game’s addon feature.

sugar_in_your_tea, (edited )

Not Suzanne the monkey?

Also, it’s not 3D, but you may like 140, where you play as a square that turns into a circle when jumping. It’s actually a great game, like a decomposition of what it means to be a platformer.

joenforcer,
danwardvs,

This is a funny analogy because Blender was a game engine at one point and failed.

DocBlaze, (edited )

did it really fail? I was under the impression it just became too much to maintain for a FOSS community, in addition to an already robust 3D modeling software suite. I don’t know how many people actually used it.

it is interesting to see unreal go a different route, they are making 3d modelers and even audio/video editing tools in house to try and make it so you never have to leave the engine.

danwardvs,

Maybe failed is a strong word. It wasn’t very popular and support was dropped out of Blender a few years back but it seems to have new life under the fork UPBGE.

AdmiralShat,

It was decided that game engine development was over complicating the goal of Blender. It detracted from actual 3D software development resources and trying to make all blender features seamless with it was nearly doubling potential work.

NateNate60,

I believe in the open-source world, this is called “mission creep”. It means when a project gradually expands its scope and mission until it becomes unmaintainably broad.

MonkderZweite,

Difference to scope creep (Systemd)?

jcg,

Also git diff feature-creep?

SlikPikker,

I like Systemd, my services and timers are huge improvements over trying to use SysV and Cron.

MonkderZweite,

Uh, cool?

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I have a hypothesis: People have heard of Unreal but haven’t heard of Godot, they see folks talking about it and go “What’s that” and google it.

DreamySweet,
@DreamySweet@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It would be great if a portion of them decided to dip their toes into game development too since it’s free.

PeWu,

You just described what I did just before reading this comment.

intelati,

I’ve considered “what does the download/install look like” before realizing “You’ve had Blender installed and passively updating for months [pacman] without using it. Stop that”

GnomeKat,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I mean if you just got fucked over by a proprietary engine then why go for another one. People are delusional if they think Unreal is a safe option.

  • Wszystkie
  • Subskrybowane
  • Moderowane
  • Ulubione
  • Spoleczenstwo
  • test1
  • Psychologia
  • esport
  • Technologia
  • rowery
  • FromSilesiaToPolesia
  • fediversum
  • lieratura
  • muzyka
  • sport
  • Blogi
  • Pozytywnie
  • nauka
  • motoryzacja
  • niusy
  • slask
  • informasi
  • Gaming
  • games@sh.itjust.works
  • tech
  • giereczkowo
  • ERP
  • krakow
  • antywykop
  • Cyfryzacja
  • zebynieucieklo
  • kino
  • warnersteve
  • Wszystkie magazyny