youtu.be

shiroininja, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

So I can’t play battlefield without TPM? I hate tech these days. My Ryzen board doesnt have it. Hence why I’m not on windows 11

JigglySackles,

I just refuse to enable it. It makes changing things a hassle.

Psythik,

Same. Keeps things simple with Linux, and Windows doesn’t even complain about it being disabled, so long as it’s present. I’ll never understand why it’s even required if you don’t even have to enable it.

Liz,

So they can have an excuse to force you to upgrade to Windows 11 beyond “whoops, turns out making an operating system as a ‘buy once’ product is a bad idea.”

Psythik,

Joke’s on them; I already upgraded to Windows 11. I was among the first. It’s actually a solid OS once you disable all the ads and telemetry with O&O Shut Up 10.

Liz,

Yeah I did the same using WinUtil. Still, I only fire up windows when I need to use software without native Linux support.

GenosseFlosse,

Might be a requirement in some companies for security reasons…?

JigglySackles,

It’s understandable for companies. But for a home user…reasoning is pretty minimal.

Jaded99,

You can still get win 11 without TPM by using Rufus and bypassing TPM which will have to be done for a lot of old PCs and we will have to do it by October this year.

mushroomman_toad,

Why would you install Windows 11on a computer? What happens if you don’t do it before October?

jason,

Microsoft will be releasing custom viruses that only infect 10.

Allero,

Your computer will gradually get more and more filled with security holes that will be problematic to patch. Eventually, programs will stop supporting it as well.

b000rg,

Does this disable updates though? My wife somehow had Win11 installed on her pc without enabling secure boot, and her updates got so far behind that now it refuses to update and needs to be reinstalled.

Jaded99,

No it doesn’t, but I’ll try putting it on one of my older PCs again and report back I only use Linux

ChairmanMeow,
@ChairmanMeow@programming.dev avatar

Didn’t Microsoft stop this in a recent-ish update? I remember trying it on a machine without TPM and it just didn’t work.

Bazzite worked fine though (after some headaches setting it up).

end_stage_ligma,

you will own nothing and be happy

sp3ctr4l, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

I am still baffled that anyone thinks that Kernel AC is any kind of effective at stopping hacks, people have been literally making a living off of defeating it, and selling those hacks / methods for almost a decade now…

But nope, still got hordes of idiot gamers who think they work, think they’re necessary, think they can’t be spoofed.

burgerpocalyse,

i dont know if you know this, but generally the people buying and playing games arent the ones making the decisions about anticheat

sp3ctr4l,

Not sure how you could read this and come away with the idea that I do believe that…

I am talking about the subset of gamers that go on internet forums and discord servers and make false, unsupported claims as to the effectiveness or necessity or Kernel AC over other forms of AC, tell people this just is how it is now, get with the program, eat the bugs, play the spyware game, its fine, everyone is doing it.

Burninator05,

Indirectly buyers are making a decision on anticheat. If someone buys a game with anticheat, they’ve made the decision to reward the developer for making the decision to include anticheat.

Lucidlethargy,

It’s crazy to me that people cheat in online games. You really have to be a huge fucking loser to do this.

Small pp energy.

rautapekoni,

Small pp energy.

I don’t know what energy this is, but not good either.

Resonosity,

Sadly, I think the financial incentive is too great these days. People make decent money off this shit

aksdb,

The cheat developers, yes. Because there is demand. The question though was, why there is demand.

Resonosity,

There’s demand because there’s supply.

Build it and they will come.

We have to ask the question if cheat developing wasn’t profitable, and even if developers actually operated at a loss, would there be as many cheats on the market as there are now?

Lucidlethargy,

Small pp energy, am I right? Sad little people who want to feel big…

cadekat, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

Can’t you load your own keys into your BIOS, letting you sign whatever you want anyway?

chameleon,
@chameleon@fedia.io avatar

You can, but most everything that would let you run your own boot-time code is supposed to end up in the TPM event log, which the TPM is happy to attest to with its unique/uniquely bannable attestation key. Not too difficult to set it up so that no attestation = no access.

This type of attestation is far from perfect for a lot of different reasons, and it would be really impractical to automate bans with it, but I guess it's a tool they see value in.

cadekat,

So long story short, the anti-cheat software can detect if you’re using a different signing key?

chameleon,
@chameleon@fedia.io avatar

Yep. It would be incredibly bad if they did automatic bans for any key they don't recognize, but it's technically possible.

Edit: from what I'm reading it apparently just refuses to let you in with unrecognized/non-MS keys. Yeah that makes a lot more sense.

theangriestbird, do gaming w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

so glad we have to give huge corporations tons of access to our private data just to play a game we paid for! so cool!

Real talk: Not all multiplayer games require kernal level anti cheat. Fortnite is a good example. If this type of anti-cheat, forced secure boot is so necessary to prevent cheating, why doesn’t Fortnite have problems with rampant cheating? Or do they and I just don’t notice because I’m losing either way? lol

Provolone,

Doesn’t Fortnite use Easy Anti-Cheat? Which is also a kernel level anti-cheat.

somerandomperson,

Yes, but it’s made to be compatible with proton.

Kolanaki, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

secure boot required

Wow. Might be the first BF game I pass on even if they eventually give it away for free.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

There are a lot of good reasons for secure boot both in game and in general. If your distro does not support it then that should be a complaint directed towards the maintainers. And… getting that through Proton is a different mess.

But EA have been spending the past year or so actively updating older Battlefields (I want to say all the way back to 3?) to actively block linux/proton. For whatever reason, they actively want to block anything but Windows for their games.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

There are a lot of good reasons for secure boot both in game and in general.

Name one.

cadekat,

Secure boot can be used as part of a chain that eventually ends with unlocking your cryptographic keys only if the software stack has not been modified.

Sure, for most people that’ll make little difference, but it is an actual benefit.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

Yup. Securing your “supply chain” is a VERY VERY good thing to do from a security standpoint and secure boot is one step toward that.

pathief,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

The problem is that I have not yet met a single human who enables a bios password. An attacker can simply boot the bios and disable it.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

First, Yo. Doesn’t even need to be a good password.

Second, what you are describing is something very different. Outside of very rare situations (most of which theoretical or specifically targeting a specific system by a state level actor), to be able to “boot the bios and disable it” would generally mean the machine is already VERY compromised or the bad actor has physical access to the machine.

A good way of thinking of it is that secure boot isn’t the lock on the door. It is the peephole that you look through to make sure that the person with your pizzas is from Georgio’s AND you actually ordered pizza. Rather than just opening the door because “Yo, free food”.

On its own? It doesn’t do much. But it goes a LONG way towards improving security when combined with other tools/practices.

frongt,

No, they can’t. The BIOS prompts the user to confirm the change on reboot. If the change is not confirmed, it doesn’t happen.

cadekat,

Hi, I’m cadekat, and I have a bios password and custom keys in my secure boot. Pleasure to meet you :3

pathief,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

I admire you, friend!

WEFshill202,

The fuck is ea doing here though, overreaching like Mastercard. My machine is machine.

LiveLM,

Certainly not cheat prevention if this video is anything to go by lol

RightHandOfIkaros,

You didn’t skip 2042??

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

I got it for free. 🤷‍♂️

I haven’t paid for a BF game since BC2. 🤣

Kyrgizion, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

I love the Battlefield series but I’m not turning on Secure Boot for them. If it remains a hard requirement, I’ll simply be passing altogether.

Katana314,

I was able to get around secure boot by installing the beta on my PS5. From then, I had the pleasure of being unable to enter due to broken menus! Can’t complain for having spent nothing and having little trust in the franchise.

DoucheBagMcSwag,

You paid for Ps+ though

Katana314,

Actually, right now I’m not. Maybe that was the issue? The UI was a bad missed up so I can’t tell.

PHLAK,
@PHLAK@lemmy.world avatar

There’s nothing wrong with Secure Boot and enabling it can prevent a small subset of attack vectors with no real downsides. That being said, the things Secure Boot does protect against aren’t likely to be an issue for most users but it’s nothing to be afraid of.

pathief,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

If you want to install Linux, secure boot limits the distributions you can use. If you don’t then it’s whatever.

taaz,

I’ve tested the beta yesterday and only had to enable SB and leave it in custom mode - no need to sign & enroll the linux kernel(s) too

turkalino,

Zero issues on the mighty gecko distro. Not sure why’d you use anything else ^/s^

poolhelmetinstrument, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0
@poolhelmetinstrument@lemmy.world avatar

This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation

sp3ctr4l,

Yep.

Things were better when private servers had actual mods and admins, they acted more like pubs where you could go see the regulars, actually form a community.

Truscape,

DayZ, Rust, TF2 and Minecraft were the model all along. Nice that it’s vindicated.

msage,

CS 1.6

ohshit604,
@ohshit604@sh.itjust.works avatar

This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation

My knowledge towards battlefield games ends at BF4 but I’m pretty sure people pay to host custom servers, EA refuses to open source it and only supply a handful of third parties with the actual code for them to charge hosting fees.

I’m sure there is an NDA involved.

DoucheBagMcSwag,

I won’t buy BF6 if it doesn’t have a server browser

brezel, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

beautiful. fuck secureboot.

9tr6gyp3,

Why?

Kyrgizion,

Needlessly intrusive. Can obviously be circumvented by cheaters anyway, so quite possibly superfluous. Apart from that it protects against the kinds of attacks that typically require physical access to the computer. If you have physical access you have full access anyway. Etc.

9tr6gyp3,

If you have physical access you have full access anyway. Etc.

You know secure boot was specifically made to protect users for this exact use case. Any tampering of the system will prevent the system from booting.

Eggymatrix,

I get your pc, “tamper” it, then i install a fake bios that tells you all is well and that your tpm and secureboot and whatever else bullcrap they invent is still happy.

See the problem?

Corngood,

It won’t boot though, because the keys to decrypt the system are stored in the TPM.

Sure you could replace the whole OS, but that’s going to be very obvious and won’t allow you access to the data.

atticus88th,

Isnt it possible to have a recovery key? Isnt that technically a backdoor? Maybe the terms are not correct but there is a way in physically.

jjjalljs,

If you have physical access you could go into the bios and turn off secure boot

PHLAK,
@PHLAK@lemmy.world avatar

If you enable Secure Boot you should also set a BIOS password for this very reason.

jjjalljs,

I think you can reset a bios password by taking the CMOS battery out or something?

AlphaOmega,

Not sure if this works these days, but on older systems there was a reset bios config jumper and pulling the cmos battery.

Saleh,

So, if you set a bios password either way, which benefit does secureboot give?

Miaou,

Can’t access the bios with secure boot on (at least I could not on an old laptop I was refurbishing, thank god the owner could login into windows)

jjjalljs,

That’s unusual, I think. Every computer I’ve had that had it on, I was able to turn it off when I went to install Linux.

Limonene,

A person with physical access can tamper with the OS, then tamper with the signing keys. Most secure boot systems allow you to install keys.

Secure boot can’t detect a USB keylogger. Nothing can.

9tr6gyp3,

The signature checks will immediately fail if ANY tampering has occurred.

Adding a USB keylogger that has not been signed will cause a signature verification failure during boot.

Limonene,

A USB keylogger is not detectable by the computer, not in firmware nor operating system. It passively sniffs the traffic between the USB keyboard and the computer, to be dumped out later.

9tr6gyp3,

If your keys are stored in the TPM for use during the secure boot phase, there will be nothing for it to log.

Tanoh,

If you have physical access you have full access anyway

No, encrypt your drives.

SoupBrick,

It fucks with Linux. I literally just disabled it to resolve a driver install issue before this announcement was made.

9tr6gyp3,

Linux can run with secure boot just fine though. Use your distros documentation to set it up.

troed,
@troed@fedia.io avatar

Secureboot doesn't "fuck with Linux". It does protect you from malware trying to install unsigned kernel modules.

Apparently that driver is unsigned, which is not the normal case nowadays.

SoupBrick,

Good to know, thanks

I was trying to install an Nvidia driver on Linux Mint, so I think I am safe.

SkavarSharraddas,

Is that a realistic attack scenario that end users need to be concerned about?

troed,
@troed@fedia.io avatar

Yes. That's how you get undetectable rootkits.

Oisteink,

This happens to roughly 1/3rd of all pc’s. But if you put secureboot ON and the FBI cant touch your pc

frongt,

This type of attack has been seen in the wild for quite some time. Ultimately it’s a security vs convenience decision.

brezel,
  • some people run more than 1 OS
  • some people actually program and need to load unsigned shit all the time
  • some people have legacy hardware that doesn't run with secureboot
  • it is my decision and my decision alone how i boot my operating systems. not EA's.
9tr6gyp3,

Im fairly certain any legacy hardware that doesn’t have secure boot as an option is going to struggle loading BF6 regardless.

The first two points are not related to secure boot at all.

brezel,

you think loading my own kernel modules is not related to secure boot? i guess you don't work in IT then.

9tr6gyp3,

It doesn’t matter which kernel modules are used, as long as you have signed those changes before rebooting.

Miaou,

Most people who work IT don’t even know what a kernel is, tbf

tpyo,

I recently had an rfid scanner immediately rma-d back that had just been returned to us. The new issue was caused by a setting and not by a defect. I asked our IT/help desk if it WAS a setting that could be changed

“I don’t know. I get the thing, I check these settings, I check those settings, that’s all I know”

😑😑😑

So me and another person are out of our equipment for another couple weeks while the scanner is sent back for “repairs” and the repair people will go “😑 tap tap tap idiots”

(Edit: I know it’s a setting because I talked with the other person who uses it and I explained the issue and he let me know it is something he changes)

pathief,
@pathief@lemmy.world avatar

You can’t install most linux distributions with secure boot enabled.

troed,
@troed@fedia.io avatar

Really? Which would those be? So far I haven't come upon one.

null,
@null@lemmy.nullspace.lol avatar

most Linux distributions

troed,
@troed@fedia.io avatar

Yeah that simply isn't true. I use Secure Boot on all my Linux installs - both in the deb and rpm ecosystem system.

null,
@null@lemmy.nullspace.lol avatar

Sorry, I read it backwards – we agree, most Linux distributions do support Secure Boot

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar

This is outdated information. Linux has supported secure boot for quite a while now.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@quokk.au avatar

And Microsoft is shutting out most third parties in the near future because of Crowdstrike, so Linux likely won't be supporting Secure Boot in the future, even if someone did want to enable it for some odd reason.

cole,
@cole@lemdro.id avatar

Microsoft can’t stop you from signing images with your own keys.

That’s what I do, and it’s almost entirely automated on Linux these days.

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar

Microsoft’s kicking third parties out of the kernel because of crowdstrike. Secure boot is a completely different thing Microsoft can’t kick people out of.

Resonosity,

Do you have any advice for someone that dual boots SteamOS and Windows 10 on a Steam Deck?

I’ve heard online that since SteamOS manually signs keys or something, that if any changes happen to the kernel that later need to be updated by SteamOS, I’d need to re-sign the keys or whatever. Idk I’m not well versed in any of this

I’ve heard it’s as easy as downloading the M$ keys to enable Secure Boot, but I also don’t want to brick my Deck.

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar

Windows 10 support is ending soon so there’s no reason to have it on your steam deck. Steam will stop supporting it sooner after Microsoft does, just like steam does with Apples operating system.

Resonosity,

Windows 10 commercial is ending, not the LTSC versions. Those are good for another 2-7 years iirc

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar

No, they are killing it unless you pay and extra $30 a month and use a Microsoft account and kill local accounts.

Resonosity,

Source?

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar
Resonosity,

That’s for commercial releases of Windows 10 dumbass. There are two other enterprise releases that will have free security updates for 2-7 more years.

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar

Which is again proving my point. Steam is selling games to people with enterprise licenses.

Resonosity,

You never made that point. Stop moving the goal posts.

Do we have any evidence that Steam will not supported anything Windows 10 related, given that commercial licenses are ending and many people are shifting to enterprise licenses?

And it’s not like Steam hasn’t already been doing this. People have used enterprise licenses for legit and nefarious purposes for years. I doubt they’d change anything in October. They aren’t owned by M$

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar
  1. You can run more than one OS with secure boot enabled. It’s just a pain in the ass.
  2. you can run unsigned code on a secure boot enabled system.
  3. its 2025, what the fuck do you have that can’t secure boot by now?
  4. THIS is your winning argument.
Truscape,

(1) Yeah, well the secure boot keys needed for Linux distributions expire in September (tomshardware.com/…/microsoft-signing-key-required…), so that seems like a sustainable solution, sure buddy. (3) What’s your income? What region of the world do you live in and what hardware is available to you? I’m still using an am4 platform PC as my daily driver because I can’t burn money. One of my buddies has an AM3 PC. Many people use modified surplus office PCs (especially in developing nations like South America or SEA), which don’t have secure boot as an option. Check your privilege, and maybe donate some of your spare hardware to those who need it, if you want to make this “a non issue” for everyone. (4) Yeah. I own my hardware, I configure my software. I gut Windows like a fish and keep it on a leash for these games, and use Linux for my work and for the games that respect the ecosystem.

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar
  1. New keys have already been released and you can always just create and enroll your own damn keys. This is sensationalist nonsense.
  2. “Check my privilege” over secure boot? Calm down, Karen.
  3. I think gaming on PC is going to get interesting in the coming decade as Microsoft kicks third parties out of the kernel (thanks crowdstrike!) and more and more people just stop putting up with windows. Enterprise in the US is hooked but everyone else? Na, they are gonna drop it.

Edit: these are listed as 1,3,and 4 in my post in voyager but lemmy shows 123. Interesting.

Truscape,

On the list thing, it seems that adding numbers with periods in a list seems to auto configure it to ascending numbers. That’s why I used (1) (3) (4). Weird, but I guess that’s the work around.

Enrolling your keys doesn’t work btw, because battlefield checks which keys you enroll, only accepting the default MS keys. Also on the hardware front, it is a big problem for gamers on a sub-300 USD budget these days - the best deals are on legacy hardware or surplus office equipment, mainly AM3-AM4 era.

filcuk,

The number list is how markdown works. You can enter all 1’s and it will automatically create ordered list.
Handy when you may need to edit list items, as you dont need to renumber even in plain text.
Markdown spec should allow for explicit number by using a bracket ‘)’ instead of a dot, but it may not work everywhere.
Let’s give it a go


<span style="color:#323232;">3) start from 3  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">1. Then  
</span><span style="color:#323232;">1. Continue  
</span>
  1. start from 3

  2. Then

  3. Continue

filcuk,

Hmm not quite what that should look like

Alaik,

I don’t think he needs a winning argument. I think EA needs to justify this kernel level AC, not the other way around.

muusemuuse,
@muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’m agreeing with point 4.

Kazumara,

You can run more than one OS with secure boot enabled. It’s just a pain in the ass.

Weird, for me it was just flicking the switch in UEFI and now Grub and trough it Windows 10 and Fedora 43 boot in Secure Boot.

northendtrooper, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

Having Anti-Cheat of any kind outside of the game is laziness or lack of resources.

I believe just have physical limitations of the character or objects and verify the movement every once in a while to make sure that their movement is not super human (ie, aim bots).

You don’t need a kernal level anti-cheat.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

It takes more work and resources to do what they’re doing. They already do server side anti cheat. And realistically, this is more effective than not doing it, though it definitely still gets defeated anyway. I would say the things that it asks of the customer are not worth the trade even if they were 100% effective, but they are more effective.

sp3ctr4l,

I offer:

0.2% more effective detection of cheaters (theoretical)

You offer:

Full and total access to every single file on your computer, all of its hardware, and all connected devices, via kernel level access.

Do you accept?

NuXCOM_90Percent,

I mean… the people who play these games very regularly do accept that.

sp3ctr4l,

Yep.

I would argue those people are extremely silly, but apparently some people just literally do not value privacy, data security, at all.

I guess we’ll see how well that works out with fascists running the show now, surely they’ll only go after the bad immigrants gamers!

Are you maybe a woman who had to stop using their period tracker app?

A trans person who had the audacity to exist, while being trans?

… Do you play video games on the same PC you do everything else on?

warm,

Blind consumerism is rampant.

warm,

The best thing is back when Battlefield was Battlefield, it would self-regulate because most people played on self-hosted servers, so cheaters and bad actors were taken care of swiftly. But now they want their own control to put shitty bots and SBMM in the game, so here we are.

This whole game is a case of the devs making bad decisions and then instead of changing them decisions, they apply the quickest bandaid fixes they can.

Miaou,

I don’t think the devs have much to do with these decisions

warm,

Overall scope was set by EA, they wanted a more mainstream shooter to compete with the likes of Call of Duty, so they could jump into the seasonal content/battle pass grind. But the devs made all these little individual decisions that add up.

frongt,

That doesn’t cover wallhacks.

NuXCOM_90Percent,

And they should just make good games too, right?

The issue with “just analyze the players” is that it is VERY expensive computationally. And it causes issues with non-official servers as it drastically increases the cost of a dedicated server and makes a listen server nigh unusable.

To be clear: I do not think the kernel level anti-cheats are a consumer friendly solution. But it takes a special kind of arrogance to insist you know better than decades worth of research and work in trying to stop hacking.

sp3ctr4l,

Yeah I mean its not like Valve has been using a combination of server side and client side game file only validation to do AC for Counter Strike for 20 years or anything.

Yep yep yep, the whole industry uses Kernel AC, other than the devs of the longest running comoetetive FPS genre ever, yep yep yep!

NuXCOM_90Percent, (edited )

Valve is also barely a blip in the market when it comes to this, funny enough.

Valve’s data can be more or less officially pulled and steamdb lists them as having 1 million concurrents in whatever the default window is (looks like this month). Call of Duty claims to be closer to 70 million but most conservative estimates agree they are at least in the low 10s of millions of “active players” rather than anyone who just popped in to check their dailies to see if they wanted to do them.

Personally? I think the vast majority of games (including Battlefield…) would be perfectly fine with VAC and I like VAC. But there are reasons that the studios that make more money than some small nations on their games (as opposed to their storefront, which is what VAC actually is based on) literally pay for more invasive solutions.


Which is actually the other point worth remembering. Punkbuster and EAC and rolling their own costs money. Whereas VAC is “free” with Steam (and possibly elsewhere but that gets murky). Many of the mega games are associated with their own proprietary launchers but plenty of midtier games that ONLY care about Steam still feel the need to pay for EAC or whatever.

And… there is a reason beyond “We want to spend money to hurt our users”.

Okay. Apparently EAC is free if you sell your game on Epic but… ain’t fucking nobody considering EGS their be all end all platform. Even frigging Epic sued the hell out of Apple to get into the app store for crying out loud (not quite the same but roll with me).

sp3ctr4l,

To the first chunk:

I mean yeah, thats why I said longest lived, not ‘most popular’.

But I am glad you agree that… VAC is reasonable, and works pretty darn well.

But this leads into Part 2…

Why does VAC work pretty darn well?

Beyond the technicals of the methods of AC…

Because if you fuckup bad enough, your entire Steam Library can be deleted.

Steam is a platform.

Every single other major company that is trying to force Kernel AC on the PC market is acting as if they do, or should just also be the de facto platform, as they are on consoles.

Yep, cheat on Xbox or PS and your account can get banned there too… but a PC is more than a gaming console, has a lot more private stuff on it than one, typically.

Valve are PC natives so they never pushed for Kernel AC.

They just allow, and now warn you about Kernel AC from other mega publishers on their platform, and these other game publishers.

Their whole thing is that they want you to use their platform instead of Steam. They’ve pretty much all done it at this point, at least tried… Ubisoft, Rockstar, MSFT/GFWL, ActBlizz (now technically MSFT but w/e), etc etc etc

And they want to force Kernel AC down your throat on your PC as well as consoles… because it gives them more data, which they can use themselves, and sell to data brokers.

… Anyway, the funniest part?

EAC and BattleEye have offered full support to game devs to get their AC working on linux via Proton… for 3 to 4 years now.

It comes with their licensing agreements.

But management almost never cares to tell development to actually use this support thst they are already paying for!

… Because they get lots of money from MSFT, and MSFT hates Linux.

Also, if you go on areweanticheatyet … you can see that almost every single AC system of any kind, in the last 10 years… has at least one game that showcases it working on Linux.

This means that it is provably, entirely possible to get nearly all AC systems working on Linux, as some game dev team has done this.

Its just that most game dev teams, under most management… are not directed to.

There is no real technical reason why AC cannot be made to work in a satisfactory way on Linux.

At best, it is dev/management laziness/nonprioritization, at worst, it is publishers not wanting to upset MSFT, or still pursuing their idea of what should be normalized in terms of a gaming distribution platform, and the backend business side of profiting from dataharvesting.

tomalley8342,

Yep yep yep, the devs of the FPS game with endemic cheating so horrible the competitive scene had to introduce their own matchmaking system with kernel AC.

sp3ctr4l, (edited )

So, again, Kernel level AC can be, and routinely is defeated, all the time.

This is easy to verify with a simple websearch and maybe 30 minutes of time, I don’t want to directly link to where you can purchase working cheats/hacks/methods that can defeat Kernel AC, because I do not want such things to proliferate.

But you appear to be claiming the competetive scene for CS has introduced a Kernel level AC.

I cannot find this, this does not appear to be true, but I could be wrong, could you please source this claim?

I cannot find a competetive CS community or league or tournament that has… somehow rolled their own custom version of CS, overlayed with some other AC, on top of VAC.

Frankly, I don’t see how this would be possible without somehow forking CS, and then either stripping out or modifying VAC… as … two AC systems working at the same time are nearly 100% guaranteed to fight each other, and class the actions of the other AC… as cheats and hacks.

Its essentially analagous to how, 15 to 20 years ago, if you had McAfee and Norton and whatever other realtime, always active, system level anti virus software running, simultaneously… they would fight eachother, treat the other AV system as a virus, as malware.

All I can find is CS communities discussing the problem broadly, mixed with a lot of speculation that a recent VAC overhaul now does include Kernel AC… despite there being no actual evidence for this, beyond the collective bias and fallacious logic that if an AC becomes more effective, the only possible explanation is that it must be because of Kernel access.

What Valve actually did, was hook up AI to greatly enhance its serverside cheat detection capabilities and accuracy… one of the rare actually good use cases of AI as it relates to cybersec.

It seems to have improved their, again, server side heuristic detection abilities… without needing Kernel level access.

So yeah, please source your claim.

Unlike my easily verifiable ‘claim’ that I do not wsnt to cite for cybersec reasons, your claim should not have that problem at all.

tomalley8342,
sp3ctr4l,

Ah, ok, thanks for providing the source, I genuinely appreciate that.

So, now, I’ll break my public safety rule, to prove a point.

If any mods are reading this, I totally understand if you remove these linkswww.faceit-cheats.comtechbullion.com/cs2-faceit-cheats-the-hidden-thre…

So yep, again, Kernel level AC, routinely defeated, all the time, with such regularity that it is a viable business model.

Almost like Kernel AC doesn’t do what people seem to think it does, it isn’t a panacea, and the tradeoff is that you lose all your computer security… for nothing, really.

Found that in actually 15 seconds btw.

tomalley8342,

I did not say that kernel level anti cheats makes cheating impossible. The improvement in the experience is not nothing. You would not understand unless you played both for yourself.

theunknownmuncher,

Kernel anti-cheat does absolutely nothing to prevent aimbots/triggerbots, as most are run using 2 separate machines, anyway. The first machine runs the game in a totally clean and legitimate environment, but sends its video output (either using standard streaming tools like OBS or by using special hardware) to the 2nd machine. The 2nd machine runs the cheat and processes the video to detect where to aim and/or when to shoot, and sends mouse input back to the 1st machine.

C4551E,

I would have thought this would introduce enough latency to make an aimbot ineffective, but I know nothing about the cheating scene

theunknownmuncher,

Colorbots are extremely efficient and can be run on just a raspberry pi.

Human reaction time is ~200-250ms, while the cheat will be introducing easily less than 10ms of latency.

I’ve never used cheats in a video game because I don’t see the point and it would spoil the fun of playing, but as a software developer, it is interesting to learn about how they work and are implemented

C4551E,

that’s super impressive to me, and I guess explains why any client side anticheat is ineffective vs a determined cheater, rootkit or not.

thanks for the explanation! I miss when anti-cheating measures involved actual human beings administrating servers

count_dongulus,

Wall hacks could be defeated by the server only reporting the positional information about enemy players to game clients when it detects that the client player’s camera should be able to see some part of the other player’s silhouette. This is possible, albeit computationally expensive, but the main functional issue is latency. Nobody wants enemies magically popping into view when their view changes quickly because their ping was more than 6ms lol

blindbunny, do games w Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0

They’re gonna kill this game aren’t they.

poolhelmetinstrument,
@poolhelmetinstrument@lemmy.world avatar

I have a feeling they are

warm,

Game is generic enough, so it'll keep a playerbase.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

There aren’t exactly a wealth of games doing what Battlefield does outside of Battlefield itself.

turkalino,

Battlebit is fantastic. The only reason it hasn’t taken off is because of gamerbros that can’t handle anything besides realistic graphics

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

It did take off for a time, and now it looks like it’s an early access game that hasn’t had an update in 19 months. And I can tell you that if they don’t let me host the server myself and play via LAN, they’re not solving any problems for me over Battlefield.

theunknownmuncher,

I love Battlebit and its a fun time, but it already did take off, sold literally millions of copies (nearly 2 million in its first 2 weeks), and then was effectively abandoned by the developers.

simple,
@simple@piefed.social avatar

The developers recently made a Steam post that they are coming back with a big update so... Here's hoping

datavoid,

I can handle the graphics, I just suck too much at the game

warm,

Yeah well too bad that ship has sailed as well. Such a shame, BF2, BC2 and BF3 were quality games, just needed a modern take of one of those instead of whatever this is we got.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

That hardly makes it generic though.

warm,

If you've played any triple A shooters, you've played them all.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Very untrue, but okay.

Oisteink,

Nah. Everyone wants tpm 2.0 Ask Microsoft

Truscape,

It’s already dead mate. Hop on the finals, we got linux support.

Pheta, do gaming w I'm not much of a creative writer, but I'm currently trying to make a creative narrative around my FIRST Elder Scrolls Oblivion playthrough.

I figured I'd give it a look, and creative stuff like this should always be encouraged!

There's a lot of things I want to critique, but I first want to lay out some ground zero statements, if that makes sense:

I'm just one person, and things I say might not hold true from one person to another. Meaning, others may disagree with my opinions, and you yourself might even disagree; that's fine.

The most important thing is to enjoy the process. If you're having fun making these, keeping that fun going is the most important thing. If a suggestion would make it less fun, it's completely okay to ignore it!

I'm having issues formulating my thoughts as I try to write this, so forgive me if it makes less sense than intended.

The future perspective is a fun idea, but it kind of conflicts with the whole premise of a blind playthrough. How are you supposed to have a future perspective on things that you, the creator of the narrative and story, aren't able to foresee? I can understand wanting to do something creative with your first playthrough, especially if you felt inspired by the worldbuilding or lore of the Elder Scrolls world.

Let's start from the top. First, who is this character's story that we're following along on? We don't know their name, who they were before they were a prisoner, or why they're in prison to begin with. A character is much more compelling when there is already a goal, something to the story beyond just the circumstances they find themselves in.

Second, there's the issue of having a personal story layered on top of a pre-existing plot. What you're writing is currently similar to fan fiction. Not really a big deal, but given that the world of Tamriel and the Elder Scrolls series is already pre-established, not to mention the plot of the game, there's going to be many that are already familiar with the story of the game.

Given that, there's the question of intent. Are you wanting to create this for others, and for it to be entertaining? As a documentary, to sort of chronologue your character's journey or playthrough? Or is it just an excuse to try writing, using imagery and other storytelling tools? To be clear, any reason, even no reason, is fine. But there's different critique for different approaches.

For example, if the intent was to entertain, I could mention that having more personality and getting us more familliar with the main character would be a good idea. If the idea was to chronologue the journey, you could have snap cuts of the most important moments filling out a journal entry (e.g., you're reading out of a journal that the MC keeps, and adding snips of gameplay footage to coincide with the journal).

If you were wanting to just try using imagery and other narrative tools, you may want to reconsider your choice of words. While imagery is a fun way to write, adds immersion, and adds details to things that otherwise would be glossed over, you are able to show literal images of what you are describing. So there's no need to describe the undead, as the viewer can see them as clearly as our main character could. If this was what you were wanting to do, you could use the other senses to add to the immersion; smell, sound, taste, etc. Describe how the undead smell, the rotting food tastes, how moist the air is, or slippery the moss on the rocks or pebbles are.

Another thing to consider ties into what I mentioned earlier; the pre-existing universe of the Elder Scrolls franchise. Oblivion takes place within Cyrodill, with so much going on. If you're wanting to write a story within the universe, you might want to read up a bit, so you don't create a narrative that falls apart when the world or game has a different plot point than what is intended.

If this is a blind playthrough, as in, it is your first time playing the game, you may want to consider changing the tone, or perspective. If the story is told in first person, there's less issues with unexpected plot changes or conflicts between preconceived ideas or other things, as the main character will find out, or have their misconceptions corrected at the same time as the viewer.

I'm happy you're enjoying the world of Tamriel. I myself grew up playing the original Oblivion, so it's nice to see others re-experiencing the original fascination I had with the world and game. That's all from me though!

ThePiedPooper,

Thank you so much for the advice! I decided that I’ll rewrite the script using most of the tips you gave me, specifically:

Adding more personality. Giving my character a name. Writing the script in present tense (if I understood you correctly) Adding details that the viewer can’t see as opposed to what they can see

I am writing the script to entertain people, not so much for myself. I don’t have an inane desire to write, but I do have an inane desire to entertain people. I feel as though let’s plays are too done, and I need to try something new.

Do I have any writing skill, or am I more or less wasting my time here?

Pheta,

First off, I wouldn't worry even a little about 'writing skill'. Skills in anything are things you develop, and you develop them by doing! So it doesn't really matter if it's a waste of time. The important thing with any creative endeavor is that you wanted to do it.

Think about it like this, lots of really popular artists and content creators didn't start off that way. They simply wanted to do something different, and got better as they kept doing it.

The reason I asked the reasoning and desire here, is that goals and intent are a big guiding force, and having different end goals changes what would be positive changes, at least in my opinion.

Since the goal here is to entertain people, there are a couple of reasons why I recommended adding a backstory to your character, and being present tense. First, the game introduces your character as kind of a blank slate; it doesn't matter what you did before, what crimes you committed, or life you led, destiny has set you on this path. In the grand scheme of things, it works, especially if a player doesn't really want to think too hard about roleplaying.

But adding extra depth to a character, like any roleplaying, adds more reasons to be invested. It allows you to flex your narrative skills, completely free of the restraints of the game engine, the game plot, and gives the audience something to be interested in besides the base game's plot.

That's part of what I was attempting to explain earlier; the remaster of Oblivion came out recently, but the original version of the game came out well in the past, in 2006 (geez I feel old!).

Part of the reason I suggested using first person in your writing style is that it gives you opportunities to voice things in more expressive ways. If you're going this route, you'll basically be doing a fan dub of the game. There's plenty out there, where you can effectively re-write the dialogue to be as silly, nonsensical, or meme worthy as possible. Of course, there's plenty opportunity to really try voice acting, and writing a narrative that fits you.

Either way, that's what I meant when using the term 'personality'. Just showing emotion, or if you really wanted to get into character, you could act out scenes as your character itself, and roleplay your playthrough that way. There's really no wrong way of doing this; you won't get much attention on your videos starting out, but that's the same for every creator out there, some close friends included.

The advice I gave for imagery can still be applied in first person too! Instead of recalling torrential rain, you could instead have the character shouting against the wind and rain. This may require some editing skills on your end, though the possibilities are absolutely there. Heck, half of this stuff is why the original Oblivion and Skyrim have such massive modding communities.

Finally, wanted to leave some suggestions. I don't know if this is your first creative thing you've done, or if you've been working on stuff all the time. Either way, the best thing you can do to get better is to keep making stuff, whether that's editing videos, script writing and creating scenes, or whatever you prefer.

If this is your first time, I wouldn't take it too serious, to take the pressure off making them. Doing a fandub like I mentioned earlier is a great way to kill time with friends and add some goofiness into a game you enjoy. Fair warning though, fan dubs are typically better when everyone already knows the game/media before hand, so they can set up funny punchlines, or do skits with a scene they know about beforehand.

That being said, if you do want to do a more serious story, that's perfectly fine too! A serious story can be really fun, and since it's a project you're doing for fun, don't be ashamed to rip character traits from some of your favorite characters!

This is digressing from the point I'm trying to make, but I'm a big fan of TableTop Roleplaying Games (TTRPGS). Think Critical Role, or other games like that. They're really fun, and are great ways to experiment with character ideas or story ideas, although your milage may vary depending on who is at your table.

But in all my experience at these games, video games, and reading, most stories are iterations of one another, just with a different personal flavor. So don't be ashamed to steal an idea you really like, just make sure to put your own spin on it, or reframe it in your own interpretation!

ilovededyoupiggy, do games w Once Upon A KATAMARI - Announcement Trailer | Release: 24th October 2025
@ilovededyoupiggy@sh.itjust.works avatar

69 cousins! How nice.

callouscomic, do gaming w The Terribly Tragic, Totally Avoidable, Absolute Collapse Of The Gaming Industry

People spend $60+ to go to overpriced movie theaters to eat some food and watch a movie ONCE with a friend or family for about 2 hours, only to no longer have access to it immediately afterwards.

Nobody cares.


People spend $60+ to play a game for potentially tens or hundreds of hours and there’s a chance they might not have access to it years down the road when they likely have forgotten about it anyway.

Everyone loses their fuckin minds.

Faydaikin,
@Faydaikin@beehaw.org avatar

People still go to movie theaters? Wow.

GeeDubHayduke,
DragonTypeWyvern,

Yoink

GeeDubHayduke,
smeg,

What’s going on with your cinema pricing, I don’t think I’ve ever paid more than £6 for a ticket

UnpledgedCatnapTipper,

The ticket is the cheap part ($8-20, give or take). It’s like $20 for some popcorn and a drink, much more if you get something more substantial.

smeg,

That’s not really part of the film though. Just go a couple of hours without eating or bring your own food if it’s that expensive, right?

Arkham,

To be fair, a lot of movie theaters ban bringing in outside food. At least in my experience. I agree with just not eating though. It would certainly be healthier to decouple moviegoing from snacking.

smeg,
Arkham,

Might be a UK thing. Here in the US I don’t think I’ve ever been to a theater that allowed any outside food or drink. I doubt it’s because of safety, I’m pretty sure it’s because it would cut into their profits from concession stand sales.

GammaGames, (edited )

lol, that’s you in the thumbnail

Edit: the thumbnail used to say “you will own nothing” with Cayde-6 giving a thumbs up

Malix, do gaming w The Terribly Tragic, Totally Avoidable, Absolute Collapse Of The Gaming Industry
@Malix@sopuli.xyz avatar

Funny thing: I’m subscribed to that channel, and yet: the video just will not appear on subscription feed. It did pop up on frontpage, though.

GammaGames,

Same!

Malix,
@Malix@sopuli.xyz avatar

Seems to be pretty common thing according to the comments in the video. “Funny” thing, indeed.

Though kinda weird if YT intentionally wanted to limit this video’s visibility by dropping it from subscription feed, but then offer it eagerly on the frontpage… what’s the logic on that.

lath,

A result of vibe coding perhaps?

Kichae,

Nah. This is the sort of thing you get when different features are owned by different dev teams.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Or deliberate yet deniable action.

megopie,

Perhaps it’s a matter of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Like the front page and subscription page are fundamentally separated, and the algorithm sees this video doing well, but the subscription page has it shadow banned, but that shadow ban doesn’t transfer over.

GreyCat, do games w Crane is back! I am excited for Dying Light - the Beast.

I am sorry but Kyle Crane was a really bland character as well, I think in most of everyone thinks so as well. I don’t think I have every seen a opinion/review that actually praised the main character or story of the first game.
And mind you, Dying Light 1 is one of my favourite games of all time.

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