pcgamer.com

echo64, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

Game delays are okay, but let’s maybe have a conversation about why valve is incapable of producing the kind of content it used to. Half-life 3 isn’t “delayed”, it’s not happening because of internal reasons.

the_tab_key,

Half life 3 had never been announced to be in development. It’s not delayed, late, on-time, or anything else for us except a hope it might eventually come out.

gnuplusmatt,

Half-life alyx was as good as any other half life content they’ve produced

cmhe, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

Game developers seem to be very afraid to change core features or the story of the game in a major way (even if the actual work would not be too extensive) after release. But there are enough examples where games improved a lot after release.

Sure, the initial impression of the game might be ruined, but that is more a consequence for the producers that most often where responsible for the rushed release, than for the gamers or developers, of the game is fixed afterwards.

GrapesOfAss, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

Is Gabe slowly turning into a wizard

ADHDefy,
@ADHDefy@kbin.social avatar

Gabe has remained a wizard through all of time

Evotech,

I’m pretty sure he is Santa

erwan,

If he is then I guess nobody ever put Half Life 3 on their Christmas list

grey,
@grey@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I hope so.

reverendsteveii,

wizards are turning into Gaben as he echoes across eternity. It seems like he’s turning into a wizard, but that’s because we can only see behind us in time.

c0mbatbag3l, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

However, delay also doesn’t mean a better product. It’s possible for a game to be delayed a ton, and then still really suck.

Delay doesn’t equal good. DN: Forever and Aliens: Colonial Marines made that clear.

erwan,

Still better than if they released the same game earlier. Unless of course they kept adding features or content.

CheeseNoodle,

Didn’t colonial marine turn out to actually have really good AI that totally changed the game feel that had been broken by a single misplaced semi-colon or something?

Defaced,

polygon.com/…/aliens-colonial-marines-fixing-code… yep, a code typo broke the alien AI. Unfortunately for that game though no amount of delays could’ve helped it, there were many more problems besides the AI. The AI was just the biggest problem.

c0mbatbag3l,
@c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

Well the AI went from “literally dogshit, you can run past them without a second thought” to “oh you have to fight them now.”

Not sure how good it is in the grand scheme, but at least the update fixed their brokenness and made the game playable.

Treeniks, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

tbf that’s a lot easier to say when you’re the president of one of the richest companies in the industry. I don’t disagree, but not everybody has the resources to just keep developing forever, and that’s easy to forget too.

Seudo,

Fun Pimps were a smaller company and they have been developing 7 Days since my gramps was in nappies!

cradac,

In the documentary this quote is from he said that about thr development of HL1. To be fair the devs themselves said they voluntairily crunched quite a bit and had some time constraints at the end of the game.

FooBarrington,

But he’s also president of one of the richest companies in the industry because he always said this.

And while your point is valid for smaller studios, it feels like it’s usually used by the big ones that do have the resources, but would rather give more money to investors.

Adori,
@Adori@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, no one has a problem with small indie groups doing early access, aka terraria, rimworld, factorio, minecraft. It’s about keeping expectations in check and having a good fun base game.

captainlezbian,

Rogue Legacy 2 had a great early access in part because it was regular releases with a lot of communication and they set great expectations for it. I knew what I got myself into and had a blast trying each new area as it came out.

AndrasKrigare,

The context for this was them deciding to take the time to finish the game properly even if they were no longer going to get paid to do it (the publisher would stop funding).

youtu.be/TbZ3HzvFEto?si=7g4Dylj_zaAeeos_?t=28m28s

fanbois,

It’s often enough AAA with tons of money that force insane crunch to hit a release date and still have buggy, uncompleted games.

UlyssesT, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

Counterpoint: Star Citizen.

I’m not being snarky there. If there are no deadlines and unlimited feature creep, you get Star Citizen. Or rather, you never get Star Citizen except as a janky hyper-monetized pre-alpha.

erwan,

Yes, landing is difficult.

There is delaying to release a higher quality product and delaying while having features creep… Not the same thing.

D3FNC,

Nah star citizen was a scam first, game second. If it ever produces a game it will have been purely incidental to continuing to run the scam and milk those whales

Tankiedesantski,

I kind of believe Chris Roberts himself is just an overambitious perfectionist. He pulled the same kind of bullshit with Freelancer, which only released because Microsoft put its foot down.

I can also believe that a lot of the top people around him are grifters feeding his ambition and perfectionism to keep the gravy train running.

Either way, they got my Kickstarter money so the only entertainment I’ll ever get from that game is opining about it like I know anything.

UlyssesT,

That’s my take too, though “overambitious perfectionist” still sounds too flattering for what a bumbling narcissist he is.

He even put himself directly into the fiction’s lore as my-hero but bigger.

starcitizen.tools/Chris_Roberts_(lore)

TheAnonymouseJoker, (edited ) do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

Some basic things to note, that may or may not be obvious.

  • Producers and shareholders are the ones still thinking gaming audience can be milked at the same rate as the past few decades.
  • The alternative to current model of game launch + DLCs/features added over the year is that the game is not launched at all until ready and full featured.
  • Gamer audience is privileged, consumerist and impatient. And most of the audience is either autistic or neurodivergent with impulsive and/or compulsive disorders, and have unstable hyperfocus and obsession issues.

Edit: “most” people are not but a significant number of people are. That was overestimated. Our generation’s psychological patterns differ from the ones before that did not play these modern and/or 3D games.

Thavron,
@Thavron@lemmy.ca avatar

And most of the audience is either autistic or neurodivergent with impulsive and/or compulsive disorders, and have unstable hyperfocus and obsession issues.

Really? Most of the audience?

whoisearth,
@whoisearth@lemmy.ca avatar

Seriously this take is fucked up. Let’s put gamers in a bucket of mental cases because they like to play Tetris lol

TheAnonymouseJoker,

muh tetris = mental cases reductionism lets laff

You have no clue how ADHD or other neurological disorders get accelerated due to video games of various kinds. Many other conditions like epilepsy, vertigo also get accelerated or triggered.

whoisearth,
@whoisearth@lemmy.ca avatar

Let’s dig that hole deeper my dude!

TheAnonymouseJoker,

A significant amount of the audience is. “Most” probably is an overestimation and a bit sensational. I am neurodivergent, am ex-pro gamer and I have spent enough time gaming as a teen to know the thought processes gamers go through. Remember, we are the first generation to have played these modern games that were not just 8-bit.

PoliticalAgitator, (edited )
  • The alternative to current model of game launch + DLCs/features added over the year is that the game is not launched at all until ready and full featured.

I haven’t seen significant numbers of people complaining that their drip feed of content isn’t coming fast enough. I’ve seen people complaining about spending a non-trivial amount of money on a visibly broken game that clearly had plenty of developer resources for microtransactions and loot boxes.

Gamer audience is privileged, consumerist and impatient. And most of the audience is either autistic or neurodivergent with impulsive and/or compulsive disorders, and have unstable hyperfocus and obsession issues.

Being a game developer had its moments but was still easily the worst job I’ve ever had, predominantly due to the community.

That said, I still wouldn’t go diagnosing millions of people with some bullshit I just made up.

ManuelC, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

The real question is… Can indie games publishers afford the delay of a game?

Redsamuraiman,

Yes. If I can wait for the Dune movie in February, video game nerds can also wait.

It’s up to the companies to coast and ration their resources accordingly.

spectre,

Chet Falizek, a dev who led L4D and a couple other games at valve talks about this a lot on TikTok, now that he’s running an indie studio. He’s a cool guy, would fit in on .ml or something for sure.

sudoku,

Valve was a completely new company then. They weren’t going indie, but Sierra didn’t pay them for the remake of Half-Life. In the documentary they talk about financing it by creating Half-Life: Day One.

Sylvartas,

Implying they’re not passing on whatever that “costs” them to the studio…

dylanTheDeveloper,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

Usually publishers have multiple products in development simultaneously with varying degrees of investment, the more money invested into a studio to develop a game the more urgent they want it finished.

iegod,

Depends on the circumstances. Small self funded team, part time? Can probably delay indefinitely.

dangblingus,

Generally they would fare better than AAA studios who are beholden to their publisher to release no matter what.

Ab_intra, do games w 'For fun and challenge:' The team that ported Jak and Daxter to PC has done the same for Jak 2
@Ab_intra@lemmy.world avatar

Now I know what I’m going to play 😁

socialpankakemix, do games w 'For fun and challenge:' The team that ported Jak and Daxter to PC has done the same for Jak 2

I installed the first one but never got around to paying it cause I beat the game so many times but it’s been forever since I played jak 2 or 3 so I’m much more interested in this.

Pirky,
@Pirky@lemmy.world avatar

I played through the first one on OpenGOAL a few weeks ago and it was great. It even supports 1440p ultrawide. Would recommend.

PolandIsAStateOfMind, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

Joke on him, often game gets delayed under this exact pretext and it suck anyway.

ReakDuck,

I think it becomes a mixture of too early and delaying.

Some games clearly need another year to finish but they delay it for half a year and wont allow more for themselves

OrteilGenou, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'

Fair point, even with upgrades a la Cyberpunk 2077, the lost sales out of the gate are unlikely to be made up a year and a half later when they release the game they should have released in the first place

NostraDavid, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'
@NostraDavid@programming.dev avatar

While this was true in a pre-Steam world, it hasn’t been true for a while.

See Terraria (which didn’t suck, but was lackluster compared to how the game is now), No Man’s Sky, Cyberpunk 2077.

Sheeple,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

There’s also a recent trend of “forever games”, where it’s clear that the goal is to keep you playing it perpetually. It has both upsides and downsides. These games tend to change intensely over the years. Minecraft is such an example.

frezik,

I don’t have a problem when small studios do it for games like Terraria and No Man’s Sky. It keeps them solvent without having to attach themselves to a big publisher.

I do have a problem when a giant, established company does it, as is the case for Cyberpunk 2077.

dangblingus,

Cyberpunk and NMS did exceptionally decent first day numbers…and then they didn’t do exceptionally decent numbers due to the well-deserved backlash. They would have sold even more copies over the last 5 years if they didn’t scare half of the gaming industry away initially. You have to work really damn hard to save your game from death. Case in point: Bethesda isn’t working to save Redfall and it shows.

limeaide,

Whenever I hear this quote I also think of the developers/publishers. They need to have a good reputation so people buy their games.

I think that’s why EA, Blizzard, Ubisoft, Activision, etc sales have gone down. I will not say that gamers react fairly when it comes to unfinished game releases, but it takes one bad game to ruin a developer. Especially when you consider how small the margins are or if they are publicly traded. Even developers with good games have recently been going out of business because it’s not sustainable.

I also think of their legacies. Especially in a post-steam world, a game with a good legacy will continue to sell for much longer. I don’t think a game like Watch Dogs ever got rid of the stink surrounding it, even though it isn’t a bad game to go back to nowadays.

Melina, do gaming w Gabe Newell on why game delays are okay: 'Late is just for a little while. Suck is forever.'
@Melina@hexbear.net avatar

Sick of hearing about this this loser, go away already

odelik,

How did Gabe Newell offend you?

The dude has been a bastion of how to run a company that delights its end-users and doing their best to run a company ethically. A staunch group of people that believe in right-to-repair as well as believing in modding and community growth of games.

Yes there’s issues on the publisher/developmer side of things, however Valve constantly works with studios to help mitigate these pain points and on-board to their platform.

Sivick314,
@Sivick314@universeodon.com avatar

@odelik @Melina valve's consumer focused service is pretty gold standard. You can't find anyone else who comes close. That's why they are so dominant.

sederx, do gaming w SteamOS will be coming to other handhelds before you can install it on your PC 'because right now, it's very, very tuned for Steam Deck'

No thanks, I’m not replacing proprietary bullshit with more proprietary bullshit

  • Wszystkie
  • Subskrybowane
  • Moderowane
  • Ulubione
  • esport
  • giereczkowo
  • rowery
  • Blogi
  • Spoleczenstwo
  • muzyka
  • sport
  • lieratura
  • slask
  • Pozytywnie
  • fediversum
  • FromSilesiaToPolesia
  • niusy
  • Cyfryzacja
  • krakow
  • tech
  • kino
  • LGBTQIAP
  • opowiadania
  • Psychologia
  • motoryzacja
  • turystyka
  • MiddleEast
  • zebynieucieklo
  • test1
  • Archiwum
  • NomadOffgrid
  • m0biTech
  • Wszystkie magazyny