pcgamer.com

dangblingus, do games w VR still makes 40-70% of players want to throw up, and that's a huge problem for the companies behind it

It also doesn’t feel at all like you’re looking at something in front of you. It still feels like you’ve got 2 TV’s strapped to your head.

I guess I’m old school and just play games with m&k or controller. DINOSAUR I am.

OrekiWoof,

Geez I thought I was the only one that thought so! VR is not immersive at all, it literally feels like looking at a screen

Chailles,
@Chailles@lemmy.world avatar

I disagree. I definitely feel like I’m there with everything scaled up to real size. Like I never really considered how absolutely massive Radroaches from Fallout were until playing Fallout 4 VR.

Kanzar,

Which headsets have you tried?

Anticorp,

It’s actually incredibly immersive now. You need to try a flagship headset, not a cell phone in a box.

bunk, do gaming w Baldur's Gate 3's latest patch has introduced a 'very frustrating, borderline unplayable' glitch that makes companions dump their inventories on you

It's an annoyance, but "borderline unplayable" is wildly hyperbolic.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It didn't even occur to me that this was a result of the patch, but I did notice it start happening recently. When the patch rolled out, I was in a spot in the game where all of my things were taken from me anyway, so I guess I didn't notice it initially when it first started.

scrubbles, do games w VR still makes 40-70% of players want to throw up, and that's a huge problem for the companies behind it
!deleted6348 avatar

Big reason why I just never understood why Meta bet the farm on VR/metaverse. Such a stupid move, literally everyone knew that VR wasn’t ready for mainstream. The only people willing to get it were tech nerds and some gamers, and really that had nothing to do with the metaverse, it was because they could play games in it.

Until it gets stable and doesn’t feel like I’m strapping a brick onto my face, it’s not going to happen mainstream. It also can’t just connect to a PC, average people don’t want to be strapped down to something. And I know, that’s a lot to ask, but if you want to base your entire company on VR, those are the hard realities. People want something like sunglasses, not something that feels like duct taping a laptop in front of their face

LordOfTheChia, (edited ) do games w VR still makes 40-70% of players want to throw up, and that's a huge problem for the companies behind it

Would be nice if the author had done a bit of research on the specific things that had been done in VR since he tried his DK2 to prevent nausea:

An Oculus DK2, a PC that couldn’t quite run a rollercoaster demo at a high-enough framerate, and a slightly-too-hot office full of people watching me as I put on the headset. Before I’d completed the second loop-de-loop, it was clear that VR and I were not going to be good friends.

The study the author quotes dates to August 2019!

insidescience.org/…/cybersickness-why-people-expe…

For one, non-persistent displays have become the norm. These only show (strobe) the image for a fraction of the frame time and go black in between. Valve discovered that the full 1/90th of a second an image is displayed is enough to induce nausea if the head is moving during that time. So the Vive (and the Oculus Rift) had non-persistent displays.

The stobing effect is so fast you don’t notice it.

Elimination of artificial movement is another. The reason Valve focused on games with teleport movement and made a big deal of “room scale” early on was to eliminate the nausea triggers you encounter in other types of experiences.

Valve had an early version of Half Life 2 VR during the days of the DK2, but they removed it as the artificial motion made people sick (myself included).

For many, sims work as long as there is a frame in their field of vision to let their brains lock into that non-moving frame of reference (ex car A-pillars, roof line, dash board, outline of view screen on a ship interior, etc). Note the frame still moves when you move your head, so it’s not a static element in your field of view.

Also it helps if your PC can render frames under the critical 11.1ms frame time (for 90Hz displays). Coincidentally, 90Hz is the minimum Valve determined is needed to experience “presence”. Many folks don’t want to turn down graphic options to get to this. It’s doable in most games even if it won’t be as detailed as it would on a flat screen. Shadows is a big offender here.

Resolution isn’t as big of a factor in frametimes as detailed shadows and other effects. I have run games at well over 4k x 2.5k resolution per eye and been able to keep 11.1ms frame times.

Lastly, it has been noted that any movement or vibration to the inner ear can for many stave off nausea. This includes jogging in place while having the game world move forward. For many years we’ve had a free solution that integrates into Steam VR:

github.com/pottedmeat7/OpenVR-WalkInPlace

Jog in place to make your character move forward in the direction you’re facing. Walk normally to experience 1-to-1 roomscale.

I’ve use the above to play Skyrim VR without any nausea. Good workout too!

For car, flight, spaceflight simulators, a tactile transducer on your chair (looks like a speaker magnet without the cone - or basically a subwoofer without the cone) can transfer the games sound vibrations directly to you and therefore your inner ear and prevent nausea.

I’ve literally played over 1,000 hours of Elite:Dangerous this way as well as Battlezone VR and Vector 36. All games that involve tons of fast artificial movement.

The main issue is too many people tried out VR cardboard or old DK2 demos with low and laggy framerate, persistent displays, and poorly designed VR experiences and simply write off all VR as bad and nausea inducing.

Edit: added links and trailers to the games mentioned so folks can see the motion involved. The “study” wasn’t a proper study. It was a quote from a scientist. No data was given about what headsets or which experiences caused nausea.

Noodle07,

/thread

rambaroo, (edited )

VR is a niche product that hasn’t and won’t solve this problem.

nanoUFO, do games w Blizzard bans 250,000 Overwatch 2 cheaters, says its AI that analyses voice chat is warning naughty players and can often 'correct negative behaviour immediately'
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

I remember when community servers existed and these problems were almost non existent without spying.

InEnduringGrowStrong,
@InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

Dedicated servers ran by the community with a server browser to find games/servers.
Really the golden age of multiplayer.

Found a nice server that runs well, chill and well moderated? add it to your favorites.
No lobbies, well… technically the whole server was the lobby, kinda.
No progression unlocks bullshit.
No ranking. No waiting on matchmaking. Just play.
No AI spying on every thing you say or do.
Maybe a “SIR this is a Christian server, so swearing will not be tolerated” or other warning of some kind now and then, even on games like Counterstrike.

Eventually, you’d get to know people, kinda like how you might start recognizing names here on lemmy.
You’d make friends, rivals, etc.
I miss those times.

I got into Titanfall 2 pretty late (like last month) and waiting 10 minutes to even get into a lobby is just annoying.
As opposed to joining a server and playing non stop on there.

It’s even less costs to the publisher than to host and scale on their own because the community is running your servers.
But then they can’t pull the plug to force people on a new release.
They can’t spy on as much shit.
They can’t sell as much private data.
It’s probably easier to sell microtransactions this way too.

In a way… gaming was decentralized. I miss it.

Bluescluestoothpaste,

Yeah but there were admins spying what you did and banning you. Quite frankly i have much greater trust in AI admins than human admins. Not that some human admins aren’t great, but why risk it? Same as self driven cars, as soon as they’re ready im ready to never drive again.

Vampiric_Luma,
@Vampiric_Luma@lemmy.ca avatar

What is stopping AI from showing bias here? The humans tailor the AI, so there will inherently always be that risk without transparency.

Bluescluestoothpaste,

Oh sure there’s definitely bias in AI, same as selfdriving cars. They make mistakes, but make far fewer than humans.

Vampiric_Luma,
@Vampiric_Luma@lemmy.ca avatar

Sure, but the mistakes aren’t the main issue, it’s that AI is just a tool that by extention can be abused by the humans in control. You have no idea what rules they give it and what false positives result from it.

My primary concern here is that it’s Blizzard, whom love to gargle honey for China and is all for banning players that speak against them, is in charge of this AI.

Blizzard’s previously talked about using AI to verify reports of disruptive voice chat, which is now running in most regions, though not globally. The developer says it has seen this technology “correct negative behavior immediately, with many players improving their disruptive behavior after their first warning.”

Great, they can auto-ban players like Ng Wai Chung, I guess. For whatever they subjectively deem ‘harmful’. There’s also the looming idea that a friend can wander in my room, say something dumb, and now I’m closer to a ban because of an unrelated choice I made outside the game.

And we definitely trust Blizard to be good with all the audio data they get to harvest. That won’t be abused later, right?

Bluescluestoothpaste,

I mean that’s a general argument against technology. Yes, more technology means more ruthlessly efficient abuse, but ultimately you think technology is better in the long run or not. Either way it is inevitable. Maybe in the EU they will ban those abuses, in China they won’t, and US will find some weird compromise between the two.

nanoUFO,
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

You trust a billion dollar company with no morals with your data? Isn’t that the whole point we are on this site? Community servers are like lemmy instances.

Bluescluestoothpaste, (edited )

Sure, and they can have AI moderators in lemmy instances. Whatever problems are concerning about corporate AI admins also apply to corporate human admins.

Kolanaki,
!deleted6508 avatar

They already have your data without the AI. Most games have had wide rangeing telemetry sent to the dev for over a decade now. This includes the text chat logs.

nanoUFO,
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah now they have everyones open mic too.

n3er0o,
@n3er0o@lemmy.ml avatar

Unrelated to the topic, but wasn’t Titanfall 2 plagued by this one hacker that basically filled every lobby with bots to make the servers crash? I think I very recently heard about them resolving the issue and the player count surpassed the numbers at launch even.

Mechaguana,
@Mechaguana@programming.dev avatar

I dont understand, wouldnt it be just a mod spying on you instead?

Die4Ever,
@Die4Ever@programming.dev avatar

Just like the Fediverse actually

Kolanaki,
!deleted6508 avatar

Active moderation isn’t spying but using an AI is? The only reason those self-hosted community servers didn’t have problems was because they (usually) had active admins to see bad behavior and take action. This is merely automating that so a real human being doesn’t have to be there watching.

nanoUFO,
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

This is automating something based on blizzard rules not community rules. What if people want even stricter rules or looser or none at all or completely different rules? Also how many times have billion dollar companies been caught selling customers private info? Too many to count.

regbin_,

There were no SBMM, no thanks.

BluesF, do gaming w Squealing pigs, disgruntled bison, and the most beautiful frying meat I've ever seen: Dragon's Dogma 2 is just as wonderfully weird as the first game

My excitement about this game continues to grow… maybe it’s time for a replay of 1.

ampersandrew, do gaming w This has been the best summer for RPGs and I want to live in it forever
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It's been a damn good summer for fighting games too, and arguably the best year for all of video games. I've still got probably 10 hours to go in Baldur's Gate 3, haven't touched Starfield or Phantom Liberty yet, and I'm also looking forward to Broken Roads. There's not enough time to get to all this good stuff, and there's still Wargroove 2 coming in a week and a half.

Swim,

broken roads looks pretty cool, thanks for the mention

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It was also mentioned in the article, but I heard about it from SkillUp.

Thavron,
@Thavron@lemmy.ca avatar

and arguably the best year for all of video games.

That is a very bold claim.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

1998, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2013, 2015, 2017...I think 2023's got all of them beat.

BigBananaDealer,
@BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee avatar

2010 is my favorite. the beatles rock band and rock band 3 came out the same year. one being a nearly perfect game and the other being my most played game ever by far (unofficially, 360 does not track days played)

Ashtear, (edited )

1998 was such a monster year because it spawned so many big franchises, including two that were arguably the genesis of e-sports. It’ll be a while before we know how 2023 measures up in that regard, although there’s not much new stuff this year that might have legs. Hi-Fi Rush and Starfield, maybe?

I’ve been thinking for a while that this is probably already the best year since 1998 though.

Lightsong, do games w Blizzard bans 250,000 Overwatch 2 cheaters, says its AI that analyses voice chat is warning naughty players and can often 'correct negative behaviour immediately'

People play Overwatch 2?

BlinkerFluid,
@BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one avatar

Scroll under Team Fortress 2 a few spaces.

There it is… right where it belongs.

priapus,

Between Battle.net and consoles, overwatch unfortunately probably has more players than TF2.

tdawg,

Didn’t you read the article. All of them got banned

regbin_,

Tons of people do. It’s my go to multiplayer FPS since it came out.

n3m37h, do games w CCP knows Dust 514 should never have been a console exclusive: 'If we had been on PC the whole time the game would literally be alive'

I’d prolly still be playing EVE is Dust 514 was on PC. Heres to hoping Vanguard is good

Zehzin, do games w CCP knows Dust 514 should never have been a console exclusive: 'If we had been on PC the whole time the game would literally be alive'
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

I played that thing and I sincerely doubt that, unless it was made into completely different game that isn’t ass

echo64, do games w CCP knows Dust 514 should never have been a console exclusive: 'If we had been on PC the whole time the game would literally be alive'

This is a good example of how companies end up making bad decisions.

Could the failure have been because what we made wasn’t very good? No no, must be some other reason.

AmidFuror, do gaming w VR still makes 40-70% of players want to throw up, and that's a huge problem for the companies behind it

I only got a VR setup this year. I find I am quite susceptible to the motion sickness issues. However, if the game has a good comfort rating and options, I don't have any problems. For example, I need "instant snap" for turning with the control stick and "teleport" or "blink" for movement.

Those options work well for some kinds of games but I will probably never play ones where you need to "move" smoothly without actually moving. Perhaps that is preventing me from adapting to it, but I still say "no thanks" to motion sickness.

ChaoticEntropy, (edited ) do games w CCP knows Dust 514 should never have been a console exclusive: 'If we had been on PC the whole time the game would literally be alive'
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

Well no shit… maybe if your offshoot game was on the same platform as your game… where your playerbase is.

Wayren, do games w CCP knows Dust 514 should never have been a console exclusive: 'If we had been on PC the whole time the game would literally be alive'

Really? I thought Dust was kind of, well, bad. Just my experience though.

DontMakeMoreBabies,

Eve players would ABSOLUTELY have still played it if it was on the PC even if it was medicore.

Speaking of, I really wish someone would try something like Eve 2.0...

Sanctus, do games w Blizzard bans 250,000 Overwatch 2 cheaters, says its AI that analyses voice chat is warning naughty players and can often 'correct negative behaviour immediately'
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

So is every game going to have AI in the chats listening for “Naughties”? Because thats just spyware.

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