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network_switch, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down

Paradox has lately been really good at admitting fault and then mismanaging the next big game outside of their bread and butter grand strategy games. They need to shake up their management because it’s becoming clear they’re giving unrealistic timelines/budgets/demands for these games

mp3, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down
@mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

If you don’t plan on making a successor that plays and contains the features the userbase would expect, don’t name it like it’s a sequel.

They ruined the name of a perfectly good franchise just to attract the fanbase, nobody wins and everyone is angry.

rozodru, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down
@rozodru@pie.andmc.ca avatar

I honestly don’t know what Paradox was smoking with this one. They get the license, cool, they hand it off to a studio that…while is known for being a support dev or doing ports they DID manage to get the original Bloodlines writer on board and then it was delay, delay, delay, fire the creative team, more delay, switch studios, start completely over, call it a day, and then claim “yeah we’re not going to make one of these style games again…we’d rather continue to nickle and dime our customers with strategy games.”

RickyRigatoni,
@RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com avatar

They were smoking the drugs they bought from printing money with bad overpriced dlcs.

Agent_Karyo, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down

An earlier statement from one of the Paradox PR reps (before release):

"I actually played Bloodlines 1 quite recently, and it is a good game, but it is also an old game, and there are many things that would not fly today," Lilja said. "But I understand why people were super psyched by it in 2004, because it had a lot of cool [elements], and the feeling of being a vampire is really strong, regardless of other features. But I think people, they remember their feelings about it. And if they replayed it, I think they would see that it's a competently good game by 2004 standards, now that it's patched.

Seems like their approach to Bloodlines 2 isn't much of "high flyer" in the year 2025.

In defence of the PR rep, they were open about Bloodlines 2 not having much to do with the original and that it was more of vampire themed linear action game.

But in that case, why would you have internal targets of 2M+ initial sales if your plan is to have a radical departure from a well known cult classic RPG known for its roleplaying and strong writing?

Nibodhika,

Not replying to you but to that statement, they’re absolutely wrong. I’ve never finished Bloodlines, life keeps getting in my way and I keep losing my save file (this is not unique to Bloodlines, there are several other games that are in the same bag). My point is every few years I start a new save on the OG bloodlines, and that game still holds out great, sure graphics are outdated, but other than that it’s a great game even by today standards, and while I haven’t played bloodlines 2, I’m fairly confident from everything I’ve seen it’s a worse game by every metric that matters. These people think that graphics can overcome anything, but that’s one of the least important parts of the game.

AnarchistArtificer,

To be fair, the first part of the game is by far the best. The unofficial patch adds back in a heckton of content in the late game, but even then, it feels sparse. I have very fond memories of exploring Santa Monica though. The game felt huge and exciting, even playing it for the first time in 2019.

Damn, I should try install it again. I’m running Linux now, and if I recall, I had some problems getting it working. I should take another crack at it.

Nibodhika,

To be fair, the first part of the game is by far the best. The unofficial patch adds back in a heckton of content in the late game, but even then, it feels sparse.

Maybe, I don’t know how far into the game I got since I never finished it. But I don’t think it ever felt empty… Although the damn zombie mission is one I hate and has made me quit the game in more than one occasion.

I’m running Linux now

I have been running Linux only for over a decade, so I can confidently say the game runs, and in Steam is just hit play.

AnarchistArtificer,

Were you running it with the unofficial patch? I don’t remember what it was that was causing me problems, but it’s possible that was it.

Nibodhika,

I don’t remember, probably not last time, but I remember doing some patching in the past.

TheFeatureCreature, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down
@TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.ca avatar

Paradox really needs a management shakeup.

Marshezezz, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down

WoD is probably my favorite but I’m not touching a paradox game cos they have the reputation of shit

BlackVenom, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down

They’re fucking up left and right.

givesomefucks, do games w Paradox Takes the Blame for Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 Sales Flop, Announces $37 Million Write-Down

Wasn’t the studios fault

They fought to change the name since the beginning because they knew it would be impossible to deliver a real sequel and while this name might get initial sales it would cause blowback killing the game almost immediately…

Which is exactly what happened.

Like, they’d have loved to make Masquerade 2, but they weren’t given the time or funds to make it.

Voroxpete,

The worst part is that this failure will probably kill any chance of The Chinese Room getting to actually take a proper swing at this, from scratch, with time and a real budget. It really feels like if they were allowed to do that they would hit it out of the park. Bloodlines 2 is a much better game than the review scores suggest, mostly weighed down by the expectations people put in the Bloodlines name.

Agent_Karyo,

Chinese Room is clearly a bad fit for Bloodlines. They have zero experience with RPG games.

They make good walking-sim style gaming experiences with strong atmosphere and world-building, but they've never made any RPGs. Bloodlines was a living world full of dynamism (remember the Voerman twins missions?).

Their gameplay also tends to be subpar. The original Bloodlines had some flaws with gameplay (combat), but you still had a lot of different gameplay options and approaches.

Why shouldn't people have expectations for a strong roleplaying experience and player freedom for a Bloodlines game?

dukemirage,

The gameplay in their original IPs is only subpar if you think that walking sims are inherently lesser games.

rtxn, (edited )

They absolutely are, in terms of gameplay. Ozzy Mandus and The Crank Hog Machine sacrificed most of the gameplay Frictional’s Amnesia became known for. There are no light mechanics. Barely any physics puzzles. The pigmen are braindead, which removes the challenge and the tension. Even if it’s a better story and atmosphere than The Dark Descent, it’s a lesser game. Even Still Wakes The Deep only goes as far as “throw the object to make the thing look away” when you’re not just responding to non-diegetic prompts.

You can make the argument that walking simulators have a place in the gaming landscape, and you’d be right, but by their nature, they are the exact opposite of what Bloodlines 1 was and what Bloodlines 2 should have been. Why Paradox decided it was a good idea to entrust with it a studio that has only made things that it never should have been is a fucking mystery to me.

Jesus_666,

Those two studios for the game because it was Hardsuit’s idea to make the game in the first place and TCR barely kept Paradox from canceling the have after they kicked Hardsuit out of the project.

I think it basically went like this (simplified):

Hardsuit: “Hey Paradox, we wanna make Bloodlines 2. We have everything worked out, we have the best possible writers involved, and it’s a real passion project; here’s our pitch.”

Paradox: “Wow, that pitch convinced us completely! You get all the green lights in the world!”

Hardsuit: “Now keep in mind we’ve never done a project on this scale before so we’ll need plenty of time—”

Paradox: “We set you on an extremely aggressive schedule. Surely that’ll motivate you into delivering perfection!”

Hardsuit: “That’s literally the exact opposite of what we need.”

Paradox: “But it’s the exact non-opposite of what you get. Now chop chop, we already gave the release date to the press.”

Hardsuit: “We’re not getting the game done in that timeframe.”

Paradox: “No problem; we’ll delay a little bit. Surely nobody will mind.”

Hardsuit: “It’ll take more than ‘a little bit’. We told you that—”

Paradox: “Okay, sure, whatever, the game’s canceled now. Don’t call us back.”

TCR: “Hey, can we try to salvage this? We really wanna see this made. But we’d like to throw away all of the writing, characters, and gameplay. Everything except the setting, really.”

Paradox: “Okay, sounds reasonable. But make it snappy.”

TCR: “We’d also like to change the name because what we can deliver won’t really be a proper sequel to—”

Paradox: “Bloodlines 2 it is. Good discussion. Glad we talked about this.”

TCR: “That’s literally the exact opposite of what we asked for.”

Paradox: “Can’t hear you; too busy launching the sequel to one of the most beloved cult classics in the action RPG genre.”

Customers: “Well, this is a pretty bad sequel. Decent game but they really shouldn’t have called it Bloodlines 2. We’re disappointed.”

Paradox: “The only logical course of action is to swear to never release a non-strategy game ever again because nobody appreciates our art.”

dukemirage,

With the second paragraph I agree, it’s a bad fit for a sequel and this is consensus (probably, I didn’t enjoy Bloodlines much), even TCR thinks so. But is this a scale? Is Bloodlines 1 a lesser game with subpar gameplay because it’s systems weren’t as complex as other CRPGs? “Game” is just the term we stuck with, it doesn’t mean that the fidelity of the gameplay, the mechanics and dynamics is paramount. If I value narrative, and it is, has become, a narrative medium, I very well might think that A Machine For Pigs did a better job.

And would hip hop be lesser music than jazz?

Agent_Karyo,

It's not like that at all.

I enjoy walking sims (Soma is one of my favourite games of all time) in general and TCR's releases as well.

That doesn't mean one can't recognize that TCR tends to struggle even with relatively simple gameplay and that a game like Bloodlines requires strong gameplay design/implementation skills.

While I loved the atmosphere of Still Wakes the Deep, there were many situations where weak gameplay undermined the ambiance and immersion.

dukemirage,

SOMA isn’t a walking sim and I don’t remember such situations in Still Wakes the Deep. The gameplay never stood in the way for me.

Agent_Karyo,

Let's agree to disagree in that case.

I hope I was able to at least share my own reasoning (even if you don't agree). And I think we can both agree that TCR does not have any experience in RPG games.

Stamau123,

What a shambles

ArchmageAzor, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam
@ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world avatar

I want to enjoy the game, but I keep getting got by campers spamming grenades or that one submachine gun. I haven’t even been able to unlock any new weapons or gear beside the base ones because of that, or another map to play on. I’ve played for an hour and 52 minutes, and I really don’t know if I should keep trying or just give up and refund it.

Cethin,

Solo? Try talking to people. I’ve found that almost everyone in solo matches are likely to be friendly if you talk. (There’s also a communication wheel if you don’t want to or can’t use a mic.)

Groups tend to fight 95% of the time though. At extract it’s often OK, but before then not really.

Regardless, it sounds like you just might not be used to the genre. You can rat, and play really safe, avoiding high loot areas where players are likely to be. Alternatively, just pay attention. There’s almost always signs players are around. If you see ARC with yellow or red lights, there are players there. If you see open containers or doors, or destroyed ARC then players have been there. You can also hear footsteps and looting pretty well. Just pay attention and you usually won’t be jumped.

I don’t feel like campers are an issue in the game though. I haven’t experienced it. There are people who will spot you with the third person camera who it may feel like are camping, but they’re almost always just being observant while looting and spotted you first. It’s not like they’re waiting at extract for you. I haven’t seen that once yet and I’ve played a lot of matches.

bytesonbike, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam

I’m playing the hell out of Escape from Duckov.

All the fun of a extraction shooter, only single player.

Cethin,

You might be interested in Zero Sievert. If you already own (or obtain) Escape from Tarkov there’s an amazing Single Player Tarkov mod that is legitimately probably the best way to play the game.

Blackmist, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam

Come on everybody, we need to make a…

Platform game

Doom clone

Command and Conquer clone

MMO

Open world game

MOBA

PUBG clone

Extraction Shooter

Coming soon: Fortnite Extractimum. Eleventy billion players in two days.

athairmor,

Yeah, what we really need is more:

Rogue-like deck builders

silverchase,
@silverchase@sh.itjust.works avatar

Oh, honey! It’s time to choose one of three upgrades!

Credibly_Human,

I mean, yea, trends exist.

The world progresses.

This thing is good.

What’s bad is the marketing dark patterns and mtxs.

vga, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam

I recommend Zero Sievert for anyone interested in the genre.

store.steampowered.com/app/1782120/ZERO_Sievert/

RickyRigatoni, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam
@RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com avatar

You can play the flute on top of downed people. Goty honestly.

Angelevo, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam

Looks cool. The third person perspective is much overrated in my opinion; controlling a person is not a good lesson to learn – being one, is.

Rcklsabndn,

But if it’s not 3rd person you can’t see the badass skin you blew $20 on.

Edit: I agree, by the way. I hate over the shoulder aiming.

warm, (edited )

That is unironically the main reason why it's third person.

Bennyboybumberchums,

Ive been utterly sick of first person shooters for over 20 years. Any deviation from that is a win.

Cethin,

For the PvE aspect, the third person is great. The AI are an actual threat, and having the camera to look around corners or see around the player really helps.

For PvP I think it’s a negative. It promotes safe play and gives an unfair advantage to certain situations.

Overall, I think it’s a wash. Personally, I’d slightly prefer first person, but they’ve made third feel very good. I think you need to try it before making a judgement, and try it with an open mind without an opinion already formed. I thought I’d be more annoyed with it than I am.

Angelevo,

Thank you, do not need to try it, as the view has been presented before… You are missing the gist of my message. I am talking about controlling someone, which should instead “be” someone.

Cethin,

You aren’t someone when playing a video game besides yourself. A third person view doesn’t suddenly make people unable to feel as if they’re playing as that character any more than a first person view does. For example, people can have a similar feeling even from books, with no agency.

You’re making a weird argument based on some purity metric. Either way, you’re playing a video game and controlling a character in the game. Neither view let’s you be that character. Both let you be immersed and inhabit their role in the world.

Angelevo,

Depends a bit on the player, though you do make a solid point. It is also a matter of preference, of course.

Alcyonaria, do games w Arc Raiders Is Already One of the Biggest Extraction Shooters Ever on Steam

Not a hard bar for the extraction games published on steam tbh. Glad the genre has a game thats decent after so many years

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