bin.pol.social

UprisingVoltage, (edited ) do games w What's up with Epic Games?

Epic cons:

  • Filled to the brim with DRM, at the point where you can’t even launch many singleplayer games offline
  • Actively against linux, for some fucking reason
  • Bad launcher (but this one is no biggie, you can and should use Heroic launcher instead of the official one)
  • Bad store in general compared to steam
  • Ties with Tencent (super anti-consumer chinese state-owned megacorp)

Epic pros:

  • Free games
  • With coupons prices can get VERY low
  • When it opened I heard the percent they take from game devs was lower than the other stores (not sure if it’s still the case and tbh if it ever was)

Steam pros:

  • Pushing linux gaming like their life depends on it
  • Generally correct towards the consumer
  • Huge store and many information, from the game store pages to the workshop
  • During sales prices are good

Steam cons:

  • Drm
  • Bad official app Ux and messy ui

Gog

I don’t know anything besides the fact that it has drm-free games and that it’s owned by CDPR (the guys who developed the witcher series and cyberpunk)

I personally purchase my games on steam, since I think their contribution to linux gaming is crucial for linux to go mainstream

Choose what you will knowing this. If someone else wants to add something to this list you’re welcome to do so.

Alto,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

Valve is what happens when someone who's not just outright fucking evil invents a money printing machine

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, and somehow they managed to invent like 90% of all "evil" MTX and DRM in the process, take a bigger cut than competitors and actively reject having a returns policy until pushed by regulators and competitors, all the while being super not evil.

It's a fine line to walk, that.

Hajotay,

I mean, do you have any good examples though? Because most of those things are blatantly false and/or happened 9+ years ago. If that's that's the worst you've got then Valve is must be amazing.

rikudou,
@rikudou@lemmings.world avatar

They straight up don’t want people reselling games they own. They could do it easily, they just don’t want to.

Yeah, Steam does cool things, but the moment you start thinking that very huge corporation somehow cares about you, you’re doomed. Companies don’t care about people, they care about numbers. Especially huge companies like Valve.

Hajotay,

I don't know if many companies allow you to resell your digital goods in the first place (other than, funny enough, Valve themselves who let your resell digital Steam assets).

SomethingBurger,

Valve’s DRM prevents the resale of physical PC games, as Steam codes are single-use. They singlehandedly killed the used PC games market.

MrScottyTay,

Loot boxes were, if not invented by them, definitely popularised.

Rai,

and/or happened 9+ years ago

That was like 15 years ago hahaha

Katana314,

It’s not a trend they abandoned - Counter Strike is still a huge source of deceptive digital item trade. It also spread to Team Fortress 2 in the meantime.

Rai,

Didn’t TF2 have it first?

I made soooo much money off’a TF2. Bought an index!

MrScottyTay,

I’m sure it did start with tf2 and dota 2 has them too

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

See what I mean? That's nuts. That's a nuts sentence right there. Imagine having a brand so sticky that people go "but did they do something really bad recently?

For the record, Valve's games run loot boxes today. Like, right now you can buy loot boxes from Valve. CS gambling is also still happening, although I'm not into it enough to know how much better it is these days.

They invented the battlepass, too, that's a Dota 2 thing. Hey, remember how people refer to buying cosmetics for games as "buying hats"? That one's from TF2. Oh, and technically the trading cards you get for purchases are NFTs,, since the term doesn't require the tokens to be stored in a blockchain.

And then there's the dev side. Everybody was super pissed with them on that end while they were figuring out greenlight processes, which... I'm not sure if they did or people just kinda got used to what's there. And if you're around devs you'll know that Valve's whole deal is to tell people what to do and give them zero support to do it. And there are other horror stories about shadowbans and Apple-style manual rejections and delistings and stuff, but at that point you're getting more into inside baseball and I wouldn't expect it to be shaping public perception at all.

Hajotay,

Well I'm not going to be eternally mad at Coca Cola because they put cocaine in their soda a century ago, there's got to be a cut-off point somewhere. If I'm going to hate them it's because of the things they are doing right now. Valve over the last eight years has been pretty well-behaved considering their market position gives them the capacity to be way worse. There's nothing stopping them from

  • buying up exclusivity contracts
  • making a DRM that actually functions
  • developing only proprietary software
  • making their games pay-to-win
CyberTaco,

I will be eternally mad at Coca Cola because they took the cocaine out of their soda a century ago.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Oookay, so we're all cool with MTX cosmetics, loot boxes, battlepasses and lacking full ownership or transferability of games, then?

I'm just trying to figure out if the things Valve is doing right now are fine for everybody or just for Valve.

Which again, is my problem. I'll keep saying it, because having to argue for reality makes it sound like I'm a hater. I like Steam, I think Valve games are generally great (and it's a shame they've stopped making them), and I think Valve's management is a good example of many of the pros of a private company (look at Twitter for all the cons).

But holy crap, no, man, they are THE premier name in GaaS. Everybody is taking their cues from Valve, Epic or both in that space. Their entire platform is predicated on doing as little as possible and crowdsourcing as much as possible to keep the money machine churning. Corporations are not your friends.

TheGrandNagus,

There has to be a cut off somewhere. Are you still pissed off at Ford for being pro-Nazi in the 30s?

MudMan, (edited )
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

If he were still alive and running the company I do think that subject would probably come up, yeah.

But honestly, it's not a cutoff problem. Steam changed how games are marketed forever. I don't like the ways that went. I don't like that they killed physical media. I don't like that they killed ownership.

Those things are still happening. It's not over. They are still pushing that process. Today.

And then there's the MTX they're still pushing today. The loot boxes they're selling today. The race-to-the-bottom sales. The UGC nightmare landscape. It´s all in there right now.

And again, I am cool with that being the world we live in. I'm even much more friendly to many of those concepts than the average gamer, I just don't pretend Steam is not doing those things.

I don't hate Steam. But Steam's vision for what gaming looks like is not mine. I don't particularly like it and I absolutely need a viable alternative to exist alongisde them indefinitely.

wildginger,

But what does that have to do with comparing it to epic? Epic isnt giving you a physical market, they are taking the next step towards digital ownership loss. Epic took the idea of loot boxes and gave it hyper cancer in fortnite, and uses that hyper cancer cash to fund giving you free games. The list goes on and on. Epics vision is not to undo the damage steam caused, its to worsen the damage to try and push it further.

If this was about the shit trends steam created, sure ok. But all of these problems with steam are things they did in the past establishing themselves, and are things epic is now actively doing to establish itself while taking each one a step further.

If these are problems for steam to have done, then supporting epic over steam is making the exact same mistake again, yes?

MudMan, (edited )
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

I haven't looked at Fortnite in ages, but I'm pretty sure there aren't any loot boxes in it anymore. They first let you preview them before buying and now I think it's all direct purchases for cosmetics and a battlepass. CS2 launched this year and it's still loot boxes all the way down.

So... how does the statute of limitations work now? Is Fortnite now cool with you but CS2 isn't? Or is it more that whatever Epic does is bad and whatever Valve does is good?

EDIT: Also, add "destroying the previous game to replace it with a fake sequel that is really just a patch" to their list of crimes against gaming. They didn't invent that one, because I see you there in the corner, Activision, we haven't forgotten about you, but it sure does suck.

wildginger,

CS2 is just a bad game tbh, but the loot boxes are still the same as they were when they put them in tf2. Fortnite specifically grinds my gears because of the active pointed targeting of kids. I like gambling, I dont mind adults choosing to gamble. I used to play mtg, the actual inventor of loot boxes. But fortnite wants to be the childrens gaming hub, and also sell loot boxes and battle passes. Thats pushing the line past where it was set.

But, like… Again, valve did these things and then set the line. Epic is pushing that line further. If the conversation was “hey why is valve shitty?” you would have a point. But thats not the convo. The conversation is “why is epic worse than valve?” And the answer is valve set shit standards that it holds to, but epic is trying to take those standards and push them further so it can be valve2, with worse established practices.

Youre saying “well valve made these bad decisions, whats the statute of limitations?” Ok, epic is actively trying to repeat those decisions. Why shouldnt we have learned from history, and not reward them doing the things you wish valve hadnt done?

Or do you prefer we have this same conversation in a decade, about epics decisions in the past tense?

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

No, you're not listening to me.

Epic. Took the lootboxes. Out of Fortnite.

Altogether. No loot boxes. None. They're gone.

So no, they're not pushing that line further. They were actually relatively early in reacting to regulator pressure by backing off from those. I'm gonna guess because they were caught having poorly designed underage checks and slapped with an exemplary fine, so it's not like they didn't get strong external incentives.

But if your argument is that Epic does it worse on a purely moral standpoint... well, you're objectively wrong and have been for about four years. The more interesting question is why do you not know this?

That's been my point all along. Valve's big win is branding. Their brand is absolute solid gold. They get a crazy amount of free passes no matter what they do. They're not bulletproof against controversy, but they're maybe the closest to that I can think of in the games industry.

Plenty of competitors have been more consumer-friendly than them in specific issues. EA started unconditional refunds when Valve was actively whining about regulators wanting them to do them. Epic backed out from loot boxes while Valve is actively adding them to new games. They are known to be the worst profit sharers, and it gets rougher the smaller a dev is... They're great at features and they do take very compelling stances in specific issues (many of them driven by the lifelong blood feud between Gabe and his former coworkers at Microsoft), but they are disproportionately seen as a league above every other first party regardles of facts.

That the kind of branding work you build a masters around right there. It's nuts.

TheGrandNagus,

Epic has done all of that and more lol

squid_slime,
@squid_slime@lemmy.world avatar

I’m pissed with ford for single handedle fucking our infrastructure, can’t live without a car now. But anyway things that company’s do 10 years ago or 90 stick around

TheGrandNagus,

Does Henry Ford being a nazi impact your purchasing decisions now?

squid_slime,
@squid_slime@lemmy.world avatar

Yes it effects my decision, I’d only buy defenders and vw’s anyway

Zorque,

They invented Denuvo?

toroknos_07,

Drm = digital rights protection

Denovo is a form of drm made by iredto

SomethingBurger,

Technically, Denuvo isn’t DRM, it’s anti-tamper. It protects the actual DRM from being modified or removed. It’s closer to an anticheat, as it ensures the game wasn’t modified.

Fun fact: my autocorrect changes anticheat to Antichrist.

Zorque,

... right. And it's also considered one of the premier "evil" DRMs.

So I ask again... they invented Denuvo?

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Oh, is that the bar? I hadn't received the memo. That's cool, then, because Activision, Epic, Microsoft and Ubisoft didn't invent Denuvo either, so we're all good.

All their platfomrs support it and sell games with it, though.

For the record, Steam actively suggests using multiple online features and multiple layers of DRM to minimize piracy:
https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

Alto,
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

I said not outright evil, not good.

MudMan, (edited )
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Hah. Fair enough.

I mean, I'd say that's probably true of most companies making videogames. People are really hyperbolic about this stuff.

ono,

somehow they managed to invent like 90% of all “evil” MTX and DRM in the process

Having worked with DRM systems since long before Valve existed, I’m reasonably certain this is just plain false.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Blending the storefront with a DRM solution? No, that was them.

That's their entire call to fame. They first turned their auto-patcher into a DRM service, then they enforced authorization of physical copies through it and eventually it became the storefront bundled with the other two pieces. If somebody did it before them I hadn't heard of it, but I'll happily take proof that I was wrong.

None of the pieces were new, SecuROM and others had been around for years, a few publishers had download and patch managers and I don't remember who did physical auth first, but somebody must have. But bundling the three? That was Steam.

Transtronaut,

Yeah, and I don’t remember Half-life being the game that introduced the world to horse armor.

Radicaldog, (edited )

The user is being hyperbolic, but is referring to their substantial role in popularising loot boxes, as well as the marketplace that has spawned a real gambling industry around it. Kids gamble on 3rd party sites for marketplace prizes and Valve does very little to interfere.

Chailles,
@Chailles@lemmy.world avatar

Not to mention that Steamworks DRM is practically non-existent anyways (and that it also wasn’t necessary to use, it’s rare, but some games just don’t protect their game with any DRM).

ElectroLisa,
@ElectroLisa@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Their DRM is easily bypassable with SteamEmu, as opposed to other inventions like Denuvo

MudMan, (edited )
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Ah, so if it's crackable it's fine?

Somebody tell Denuvo, they're off the hook.

Seriously, why try so hard to go to bat for a brand name? I get that everybody wants to root for something these days, but I'm too old to pick sides between Sega and Nintendo and I'm mature enough to reconcile that Steam can have the best feature set in a launcher and also be a major player in the process of erasing game ownership and the promotion of GaaS.

Alto, (edited )
@Alto@kbin.social avatar

Since I can almost guarantee you major publishers would not publish on steam without some sort of DRM, yeah Im fine with them having an easily crackable form of DRM. Especially since they're not exactly jumping to prevent people from doing it.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Oh, they are not. Their DRM wiki page for devs goes "this DRM is easily crackable, we really recommend you use secondary DRM on top of it, see how to do that below". I linked to that elsewhere.

Which is... you know, fine, but definitely one of the reasons I always check if a game is on GOG first before buying it on Steam.

Dagger,

Steam have DRM free games too, you don't have to launch them through steam even.

mycus,
@mycus@kbin.social avatar

steam drm is so easy to bypass that it almost doesn't count

ElPussyKangaroo,

Didn’t know about heroic… Gonna check that out.

Also, wow. You’re the dude that appears in comment sections with well-formatted paragraphs 💯.

Appreciate your service.

Hubi,
@Hubi@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t forget that Epic buys up existing licenses to sell them as exclusives. They even pulled Rocket League from Steam after buying the studio.

hh93,

Let’s also not forget that game developers have no choice but to release on steam if they want to have any chance on breaking even since they have that huge of a market share and that Epic challenging that already lead to better deals for developers since Valve hat virtually free reign before

Rose,

Rocket League is fully playable on Steam.

The story of most of Valve’s games is finding a mod, hiring the modder, then making the game exclusive to Steam.

Hubi,
@Hubi@lemmy.world avatar

You can no longer buy the game on Steam though.

ChicoSuave,

The difference between Steam and Epic is that Steam gets modders who mod their Source games. These mods don’t exist outside of Valve games. Valve is paying someone who loves their games and makes content for those games. They are smart in recognizing talent and bringing it to their development teams.

Epic finds existing games with existing communities and build a wall around it so Epic becomes a gatekeeper to the fun. They stop games from working on other storefronts or pay for “exclusivity” which means stopping people from playing the game.

wooki,

Steam cons

  • You don’t own the games, they are leased, like Sony
  • store costs to developers/publishers are insanely high for a digital distribution platform
  • early access games have very high volume of abandonware
mcforest,

store costs to developers/publishers are insanely high for a digital distribution platform

Isn't the 30% cut what basically everyone takes? AFAIK GOG, Ubisoft, EA and all three console manufacturers take the same share.

Besides Epic only itch.io with their choose your share system and Discord (do they even still sell games?) take/took less.

wooki,

Considering they have bugger all cost with distribution points being hosted for free by service providers it’s an overpriced over glorified website with online payment processing. 30% cut is massively tax for very little

FrederikNJS,

You don’t own the games on any digital platform, neither steam, epic or gog. You’re only being sold a license to use it, and the license can be revoked whenever the company feels like it.

Thisbis actually true for most of the physical media back in the day, the only difference is that they didn’t really have a method to revoke the license… But that nice old cardboard box you have in your attic, with the nice shiny plastic disc… You still don’t legally own the software on it.

wooki,

So what. It’s still valid Cons for the platform.

Stop making excuses for scamming one sided purchase agreements.

FrederikNJS,

You are absolutely correct, but it’s a con for Epic too. Your comment makes it out to look like you don’t own your games on Steam, but by omission you make it seem like you do own your games on Epic.

I just want to make it very clear that you don’t own the games on either platform. But also want to mention that even if you buy a good old CD/DVD with the game on, then you still don’t own the game…

It’s absolutely awful that it’s practically impossible to own a game, and it’s even more awful that the platform can take away a game you paid for, let alone that they don’t even have to refund you for it…

MrScottyTay, (edited )

A con for GOG is their site is slow as fuck. And god forbid you want to go back to a previous page, you’ll likely lose where you were looking 9 times out of ten. Especially so on mobile.

Pros: Can be the only place you can get old games that would’ve been unavailable otherwise

The older games are often really really cheap, especially during sales

SomethingBurger,

Steam’s, Epic’s, Ubisoft’s, Battle.net’s and whatever-EA’s-thing-is-called-now’s sites are also slow as shit. What is it with these platforms which prevent them from loading a webpage in less than 10 seconds?

MrScottyTay,

Sadly, it’s likely a lot of tracking. The kind that look where your mouse is and where you scroll and stop etc.

SomethingBurger,

What tracking does Epic need? “According to our analytics, 100% of users scroll to the free games banner on Tuesday at 5pm CEST, then leave and don’t come back for a week. What a mystery!”

suction,

You’d be appalled how much people in corporations earn for making these obvious observations…

key,
@key@lemmy.keychat.org avatar

Oh thanks for the reminder, I hadn’t opened epic so I can scroll down to the free games banner in a while.

ono, (edited )

In Steam’s case, the slowness looks more like a side effect of it being a Chromium Embedded Framework application (similar to Electron) with a lot of extras bolted on. It’s just not built for efficient use of resources.

MrScottyTay,

The website, outside of the client is still slower than it used to be a good few years ago

BigTechMustBurn,

By making the entire thing a JavaScript monstrosity with egregious amounts of scripts.

Grass,

Gog also seemingly no 2fa other than an faq page with instructions that cannot be followed.

MrScottyTay,

I always get 2FA’d on GoG for an emailed code

Grass,

Do you remember how to configure it? Last I checked I went through every account and settings page on the store site and seemingly separate customer service log in and no clear way to set it up.

MrScottyTay,

Not a clue sorry. I’m personally not one to go out of my way to set up 2FA even though I know it’s good practice to do so (unless it’s work related, then I do)

cottonmon,
@cottonmon@lemmy.world avatar

Another con is that GOG versions are usually not updated as much as other versions are. It’s a shame, because I’d prefer to use GOG when possible.

ono, (edited )

Epic cons:

Also:

  • Epic has already been caught scanning and collecting data from files on people’s hard drives that are totally unrelated to Epic or its games.
  • Epic’s habit of interfering with game availability, through exclusivity deals.

Ties with Tencent (super anti-consumer chinese state-owned megacorp)

To be more clear about it, Tencent is Epic’s largest investor, so they obviously have a great deal of influence over and access to anything they want from Epic (likely including user data) and they directly benefit from Epic’s growth.

Steam pros:

Also:

  • Actively funding and supporting development of linux gaming technologies for more than a few years now, to the point where linux is now very much a viable gaming platform.

Steam cons:
Drm

Given that DRM on Steam is entirely up to each game publisher, I don’t think it’s appropriate to list under “Steam cons”. I’m not even sure that any of my Steam games have DRM.

If you mean that most Steam games expect to find an instance of Steam running, you should know that is not DRM, and it’s trivially replaced with the open-source Goldberg Emulator or a similar tool.

Gog
I don’t know anything besides the fact that it has drm-free games

Another plus for GOG is that they let you download games with a web browser. No special app required. (I think Itch.io does this as well.)

Kecessa,

Epic was scanning your Steam friends and play history

Valve was scanning your DNS cache

So… Maybe we shouldn’t forget to mention the second one if we’re going to bring up the first one

ono, (edited )

Valve was scanning your DNS cache

The story I read was that they didn’t collect or report anything, but just flagged a user if the cache contained a known game hack site, and that they stopped doing that years ago.

Not comparable to what Epic was caught doing, IMHO. Still, if there’s an article with more detail, I wouldn’t mind reading it. (Maybe it was part of their anti-cheat system of the time?)

Kecessa,

Funny how if it was any other company you would call bs and tell them to fuck off with their “trust me bro” attitude.

To me it’s much worse what Valve did, they have no business looking at my browsing history, that’s much more private than the games I own on Steam or the three friends I’ve got on both platforms anyway.

Glide,

I want to note that Steam isn’t inherently a DRM platform, as there are many games on Steam which are DRM free. Even ones that require the Steam backend can be bundled with Steamworks, serving all the same backend requirements without Steam needing to be installed on the machine.

Rose,

Epic has a significantly higher percentage of games confirmed to be DRM-free.

JamesFire,

So if we just assume this random wiki with no sourcing is correct…

Steam has more games than everyone else, DRM on Steam is the developer/publisher’s choice, Steam still has more DRM-free games than Epic does, and how many of the ones Epic has are exclusives that don’t count?

Rose,

Many of the articles do have references on the DRM status. Here’s an example indicating verification by a staff member. I personally tested a bunch of the games for DRM and noted it back when I contributed. Until recently, most of the games released on Epic were DRM-free. Even the Sony games were notably DRM-free on Epic before they were released on GOG. Nowadays, it’s more common for the new ones to use EOS and have it function as DRM.

ares35,
@ares35@kbin.social avatar

yea, they steam has some drm-free games available... but steam is a drm platform.. one that also helped normalize one-time-use codes and tying 'purchases' to a non-transferable online account. valve did more to shred the used pc game market than any other company.

Kecessa,

www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

The Origin store proportionally has more DRM free games than Steam…

JamesFire,

So if we just assume this random wiki with no sourcing is correct…

Steam has more games than everyone else, DRM on Steam is the developer/publisher’s choice, Steam still has more DRM-free games than Origin does, and how many of the ones Origin has are exclusives that don’t count?

JamesFire,

So if we just assume this random wiki with no sourcing is correct…

Steam has more games than everyone else, DRM on Steam is the developer/publisher’s choice, Steam still has more DRM-free games than Origina does, and how many of the ones Origin has are exclusives that don’t count?

Kecessa,

Do you know what proportions are?

JimmyMcGill,

Steam UI is messy but they have a ton of functionality in their store/system. Epic took ages to even get a functioning cart, Steam has tons of features which are not even tied to the games in their store like remote play and Steam VR. Family sharing is also really cool for example. Also Steam basically killed piracy for a long time due to amazing Steam sales + convenience of use.

Killer,

Steam ui might be messy but you can get custom skins for it.

Kecessa, (edited )

Eh… A whole bunch of games on Epic are DRM free, proportionally more than there are on Steam in fact…

darth_helmet,

Another Epic con: they bribe devs to not launch their games on Steam and GoG, because their store isn’t good.

MeanEYE,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Steam DRM is optional, it depends on developers to implement it.

Radicaldog,

Your first line is straight up misinformation. Epic has remarkably few games with DRM, mostly from big publishers implementing their own. I’ve yet to find an indie that can’t be launched directly as an .exe. Same with Cyberpunk 2077, launches directly without issue.

The only singleplayer game I can’t play offline is Hitman, just like on Steam, because their publisher sucks.

Veritrax, do games w What's up with Epic Games?

I personally don’t like Epic for paying developers for exclusivity deals, keeping games off other PC platforms for a year or more. Artificial scarcity is bad for consumers.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Definitely a terrible idea.

Using money to jump ahead in the line is a terrible mindset. Provide good features, you’ll get your recognition.

hh93,

No it won’t - people are lazy

Even CDProjekt sold many more copies on steam than GOG when you

  1. Actually own the ge there instead of renting a licence for it.
  2. Know that 100% of your money go to the game developers.
  3. Get many additional goodies for free

Don’t tell me people are choosing the better deal when it’s all just steam having the might of “I have most of my games there already” on their side…

JustEnoughDucks, (edited )
@JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl avatar

Which they don’t do. Their platform has very few features, and doesn’t even have a cart. (Well last time I booted EGS like a year ago).

They have almost no features and of the features they do provide, none of them are great. Their only “feature” is operating at a loss, subsidized by megacorps, for many years like Amazon to gain a bunch of market share.

Luckily for gamers, steam already existed so they couldn’t corner the market and enshittify the entire industry like amazon did.

MrScottyTay,

It doesn’t really bother me since it’s still on pc anyway, it doesn’t matter massively where you get a game from (unless you specifically want drm free copies).

GeneralEmergency,

Especially when Epic is funding development with those deals.

pivot_root,

Even worse is that they do this while trying to paint themselves as the underdog against the Steam monopoly. It’s not only hypocritical, but also deceitful. A new monopoly is not a solution to an existing monopoly, but a solution to investments paying off.

Killer,

Don’t forget them being hypocritical again for suing google/apple for being monopolistic because they don’t want to have to go through them for payment.

Kecessa,

You guys don’t understand what a monopoly is…

pivot_root,

I do know what it is, and I don’t actually think Steam is one. They have a considerable market share, but they are by no means the only way to get games on PC, nor do they exercise their dominance in a way that stifles competition.

I’m pretty sure Tim Sweeny knows this as well, but he still calls it a “monopoly” whenever he has the chance.

Kecessa,

They were sued in the EU for violating anti trust laws, lost and decided not to cooperate.

They’re currently getting sued for forcing devs to not sell their games at a lower price on other platforms.

Their marketshare is more than enough to consider them a monopoly, you don’t need 100% of the market to be one, you just need to be so implanted that you become the default solution. Google doesn’t have 100% of the market, it still is considered a monopoly for search engines

Kecessa,

Why not say fuck the developers instead? They’re the ones accepting guaranteed income in exchange for exclusivity, maybe you should be mad at then for not taking a chance at the “influencer making your game popular enough that you recoup your cost” lottery.

CileTheSane,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

Por que no dos?

If I’m not buying anything on Epic then I’m also not buying from developers that agree to Epic’s exclusivity. Two birds, one stone.

Kecessa,

They got paid for the exclusivity, after that if they don’t sell as much then so be it, but just releasing on Steam is like choosing to play the lottery as a retirement plan and signing an exclusivity deal is like having a job, one might pay tens of millions or nothing, the other you’re sure will let you buy food for the next couple of years.

There’s tons of games on Steam that the devs have put everything they had in it only to never see any success and then you’ve got games like Vampire Survivors where nothing happened for months until suddenly a YouTuber started playing it and it became a major success. And I mean, good for Luca (and eventually for his team), but for every successful small dev there’s tens of unsuccessful ones…

Uninformed_Tyler, do games w What's up with Epic Games?

Issues I can think of in the order they occur to me. These are off the top of my head refections not researched.

  1. Group think: If I shop where most other people shop I have outsourced research and decision making. Is there a good reason? maybe, maybe not but I’m going to follow the masses because I can’t research everything.
  2. Stability: neither store offers physical assets so if the store shuts down my purchases could also vanish. Steam is a bigger player and appears to be more stable and GOG is DRM free.

3 The shopping experience: I personally find the layout of steam better for discovery and finding reviews. With the current epic coupon available I have looked on epic for games and if you’re just browsing it is not a intuitive experience. GOG similarly has a variety of sorting tools available.

  1. private vs public ownership: Epic is a public for profit company. Over and over I have seen public companies screw there customers in the interest of profit. Valve (I believe, this is really off the top of my head) is privately held and as such can choose to prioritize whatever their leadership wants. They can’t just be bought out and taken in a totally different direction.

This all could be insane ramblings but these are the things that motivate me to spend my money on Gog or steam in general.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Fair enough I guess… I only use Epic for the free games, so I can’t say I’ve spent much time genuinely looking at the user experience 😅.

B0NK3RS, do games w What's up with Epic Games?
@B0NK3RS@lemmy.world avatar

There are issues with every platform so all anyone can do is make their own decisions.

ElPussyKangaroo,

I guess so… Unless a company is objectively terrible, I guess it does end up being “subjective”.

For example, I like the idea of Linux, but am happy that things work on Windows. And MacOS is too restrictive for my tastes.

Now, surely there are objective reasons for why Linux is better than the others. But the entry point issue for me is that each distro is different, and while I love customisability, I cannot expend energy on setting up my distro at the moment… (Soon.)

Plus, games work on Windows. I do plan to dual boot when I get a better PC, but not yet.

And fuck Apple (subjective, but I don’t wike em). So, yeah 🫡.

Zorque,

... and OP is asking for perspective so they can make their own decision.

B0NK3RS,
@B0NK3RS@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I was a bit vague with that comment. I guess whenever this topic comes up it, at least to me, feels like most of the comments are I’ll informed.

radix, do games w What's up with Epic Games?
@radix@lemmy.world avatar

Pure speculation: of the people who don’t like Epic, maybe 25% are legitimate, principled objections to their business practices. The rest are split evenly between people who just want to manage their entire library on a single platform, and folks just going along for the hate-ride because it seems like the “safe” position to take.

From a technical stance, Steam and GOG are superior platforms (for different reasons). For equal-price purchases, I can’t think of a single reason to choose Epic over other options. But claiming a game for free? That doesn’t make anyone a bad person.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Hmm…

I’ll be honest, I definitely prefer having everything on one platform for convenience. This is in second place; right after letting me play a game directly from the icon without having to open the damn launcher in the first place.

Also, I am not well educated about the technicalities of Steam or GoG, so all I can say is I’m enjoying the cool factor of GoG combining my accounts in one place. Kinda bummed that Epic’s integration doesn’t have game time and achievement sync… But that’s probably an Epic thing.

Also also, fuck yeah! If it’s free, I’m in 😂.

Radicaldog,

Playnite can do game time from Epic and Steam, plus its own accounting for any .exe you can launch through it.

gerryflap, do games w What's up with Epic Games?

Personally my main gripe is their aggressive strategies to force people into their garbage-tier launcher. Compared to Steam it’s just miles behind, and it’s yet another app to run on your PC. All my friends are also on Steam, and Steam had Linux support. However, if all you want to do is launch singleplayer games, you don’t mind the Epic launcher, and you get a good deal, then do whatever you want to.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Hmm…

I have never used a launcher before (for obvious reasons as mentioned in my post), so I found the idea of a separate launcher dumb in the first place. I have used it in recent times thanks to Epic’s free games. Finished two of the Tomb Raider trilogy.

Like, I’m fine with a store, but I gotta open the launcher to launch the game? On Windows, with the Tile based Start Menu, I kind of thought it was a terrible idea NGL. I gotta open, wait for it to load, open the library, then click to run, THEN it’ll open…

Plus, if I want to track progress, it’s a hassle because I can’t track without the damn launcher…

Glide,

This.

I fundamentally have no issue with the Epic Games launcher. Steam needs competition to keep it in check. Without alternatives, Steam can and will strangle Dev profits, which is a problem. But Epic is a mediocre service, another app to be running, and actively going out of their way to prevent games from being on the platform of the consumers choice, which I am not a fan of.

Related note: does Epic have any DRM free games? Even Steam has a fair portion of games that are DRM free and work perfectly well from a flash drive on a computer that doesn’t have Steam installed. As far as I am aware, Epic does not.

There’s just a series of minor ways in which epic is worse, and I don’t like having front-end clients for my games as is, so a second, competing alternative going out of its way to push me into using it rubs me the wrong way.

MrScottyTay,

Where can you find what steam games are drm free?

wolfshadowheart,

Steam DRM is optional and implemented by the developer.

OrgunDonor,
@OrgunDonor@lemmy.world avatar
MrScottyTay,

Thanks!

MrScottyTay,

You don’t need all store fronts running at once on your pc though. Just boot up what you need for the game you want and it’s just six and two threes, whether it’s steam or epic, or any other launcher.

Kecessa,

You don’t understand, it’s ok if the extra app you need to run is Steam, it’s not ok if it’s Epic!

gerryflap,

The issue is that I miss features when using Epic. Additionally, games from Epic are not visible in my steam library which leads to me forgetting that they even exist. And also nobody uses it, so there’s no community feeling like I have with all my Steam friends.

I don’t mind it for free games though. If they give me a game for free, they deserve me using their launcher for that game haha.

TootSweet, do games w What's up with Epic Games?

what’s the issue with Epic

Enshittification.

why should I go for Steam

Not sure you should.

or GoG?

I hear GoG tends to be less DRM-y.

ElPussyKangaroo, (edited )

Fair enough.

I’ll have to take a look at GoG anyway… I don’t remember but I heard it’s like an aggregator of some sort too, right? Like, you can access games from your steam account too or something?

Edit: Bruh this is dope.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7b4d7eff-962f-4958-9ce2-973c9a4d9337.png

brawleryukon,
@brawleryukon@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t remember but I heard it’s like an aggregator of some sort too, right?

GOG the store is just that - a store. They only sell games that have no DRM at all, which means a couple of things. One, they almost never get AAA games at release (the exception being games developed/published by CD Projekt, as CDP owns GOG), and two, there’s a high likelihood that GOG will offer game versions that are out of sync with or missing features from the same game sold on other platforms (for example, if a game uses Steamworks for its multiplayer, many devs will just strip out multiplayer altogether for the GOG version rather than patching something new and store-agnostic in).

What you’re thinking of with the aggregator is GOG Galaxy, which is their (completely un-required) launcher software. Unlike Steam and EGS, GOG’s DRM-free nature means you can just buy games on their site, download the installers directly, and go on about your business. Downloading games, starting games, etc., is all just done manually. If you want a dedicated launcher software similar to the Steam and EGS clients, that’s what GOG Galaxy is for. And as a value-add, they implemented aggregator features where you can have it pull in your library from Steam, EGS, EA/Origin, Ubisoft, etc., and just view and launch everything from the one spot. I’ve generally found Playnite to be a little better at being a one-stop launcher, though everyone’s mileage will vary of course.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah after using both Playnite is better but GOG works a bit better as a ready made experience tbh. Both are great!

ElPussyKangaroo,

Playnite looks interesting.

Does it have support for linking Backloggd accounts or similar such platforms?

SaltySalamander,
@SaltySalamander@kbin.social avatar

They only sell games that have no DRM at all

This isn't really true anymore.

Cybersteel,
@Cybersteel@lemmy.world avatar

What installer? You mean like apps?

brawleryukon,
@brawleryukon@lemmy.world avatar

The actual .exe that installs the game.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Edit 2: (replied because I got some error when editing comment a second time…)

Okay nevermind. Thought it was too good to be true… why open with an in-app browser?

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c52309c8-6afa-428d-9861-4289644bdcdd.png

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

It’s the only way they can ensure it works, I suppose. They might need to control specific cookies and reported supposed clients depending on plugins, and so a packaged in-app browser for the login is easiest. Playnite does the same thing.

B0NK3RS,
@B0NK3RS@lemmy.world avatar

This is to be expected and don’t let it turn you off using Galaxy. Once set up you can automatically launch (and close) the game and client from here without seeing the other apps.

It does work with Steam, Ubisoft etc but the login will expire every week and need reconnecting.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Oh yeah. No, absolutely not… I logged in…

I installed one game, uninstalled another.

Waiting to get time to play using GoG soon.

Also, do we know if there’s any integration with services like IGDB?

B0NK3RS,
@B0NK3RS@lemmy.world avatar

GOG Galaxy let’s you combine most of your game library in to one but it has it’s issues. GOG, Epic and Microsoft Store all work great but the other clients aren’t officially supported.

ElPussyKangaroo,

Epic doesn’t have the game time sync, but that’s an Epic issue I believe.

mateomaui, (edited )

Playnite is a better free option for a library manager and the steam integration doesn’t break constantly.

playnite.link

EternalWarBear,

GoG isn’t terrible, but is a little bit of a pain with Linux. They don’t have native support with the desktop client. Although, there are things like “Heroic Launcher” and “Lutris” that work well as a substitute. Granted most of my experience with those are on my Steam Deck. And it just caused too much pain to get CP2077 working for me. That I got it again on Steam when it went on sale.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

To be clear, it's not less DRM-y, it's straight up DRM-free.

They had a poll at one point asking the community whether they were fine with DRM-enabled games and/or modern releases. As I understand it, the community said yea to modern games, nay to DRM, so now they do games of all ages but only if they're willing to give up on DRM.

I'm amazed they haven't turned back on that, because a couple years ago they were bleeding money and you can tell they really need to cut costs or increase revenue somewhere. But hey, at least you can back up your library.

nave,

Enshittificatiom

You cant enshittify something that wasn’t good in the first place.

key,
@key@lemmy.keychat.org avatar

We’re in the phase of the meme where use is broadened more and more until it ceases to have any connection to its origins.

CileTheSane,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

They’re trying to enshittify PC gaming.

nudnyekscentryk, do zapytajszmer w Automatyczne zmniejszanie obrazów
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

Jeśli przypadkiem używasz windowsa 10 lub 11 to powertoys ma wbudowaną zmniejszarkę do zdjęć

MrScottyTay, do games w What are some 3D platformer/3rd person shooter hybrids aside from the Ratchet and Jak series?

I would love their to be more games like this. I just finished Nexus and just started rift apart and absolutely loving it. So annoyed we’re not getting another R&C game to 2029. I LOVE the Spiderman games but rift apart is leagues ahead of them.

Podryban, do zapytajszmer w Automatyczne zmniejszanie obrazów

Nie wiem, jak dotychczas je zmniejszałeś, ale zawsze można spróbować bulkresizephotos.com/en. To dość ułatwia cały zabieg. Nie umiem się wypowiedzieć natomiast co do możliwości dodania tego na szmer.

dj1936,
!deleted2556 avatar

Dotychczas zmniejszalem tu www.easy-resize.com/pl/

To chyba podobny motyw do Twojego

CarlsIII, do gaming w FFVII Rebirth Director Naoki Hamaguchi says that Cait Sith's name is pronounced "Cat Shee."

I’m pretty sure this was true before this guy said it

rodgm, do gaming w it's the steam winter sales, what game did you enjoy playing and want to share?

My list of recently played games(last year or so). Deliver us Mars, The Invincible, The Chant, Alan Wake 2, Unholy, Talos Principle 2.

stagen, do gaming w Terra Nil - Launch Trailer - Nintendo Switch - YouTube
@stagen@feddit.dk avatar

Thisll also be on PC. I played the demo and I’m patiently waiting for the full release.

Poopfeast420,

It’s been on PC sine March, full release. You can get it in the current Steam Sale for 30% off.

simple, do games w What are some 3D platformer/3rd person shooter hybrids aside from the Ratchet and Jak series?
@simple@lemmy.world avatar

Megaman Legends 2! It’s a bit dated but you may enjoy it.

Also shoutout to Delta gal which is a spiritual successor. Only a demo is available right now but what’s here is really good.

yamanii,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Seconding this masterpiece, the first Megaman Legends is hard to play nowadays since you need to stop to aim, but 2 introduced lock-on so it’s much more agile and dynamic, still great, replayed it last year.

magic_lobster_party, do games w What are some 3D platformer/3rd person shooter hybrids aside from the Ratchet and Jak series?

It was a long time ago I played it, so I’m not sure how well it has aged.

But I recommend Ty the Tasmanian Tiger. It’s a platformer where boomerangs are your weapon. Over time you unlock different kinds of boomerangs with different perks (like fire boomerangs or exploding boomerangs). I remember it being quite fun at the time.

Zahille7,

It’s aged pretty well, especially with the HD remasters available on steam. My favorite is Ty 2.

  • Wszystkie
  • Subskrybowane
  • Moderowane
  • Ulubione
  • muzyka
  • rowery
  • test1
  • esport
  • Technologia
  • FromSilesiaToPolesia
  • fediversum
  • ERP
  • krakow
  • shophiajons
  • NomadOffgrid
  • informasi
  • retro
  • Travel
  • Spoleczenstwo
  • gurgaonproperty
  • Psychologia
  • Gaming
  • slask
  • nauka
  • sport
  • niusy
  • antywykop
  • Blogi
  • lieratura
  • motoryzacja
  • giereczkowo
  • warnersteve
  • Wszystkie magazyny