This comment is so silly and yet I keep seeing it everywhere. What do you think the Xbox and Playstations are? What is it that xbox and playstation customers are looking for that this small computer isn’t?
No, it isn’t, in practice. Xbox and PS5 have more in common with my iPhone than my desktop PC or NAS when it comes to being able to do what I want with it.
It will be interesting to see how proprietary the Steam machine is. That’s how I’d end up classifying it as console or miniPC.
A clever enough person can get a useable general-purpose OS running on just about any hardware. The entire point is that it’s user-friendly out of the box.
So user friendly Linux running on it makes it not a console? For a while PS3 was just a couple button presses to get a full Linux distro booted on it. I don’t think anyone would argue PS3 wasn’t a console.
Wrong. MacBooks can dual boot Linux (windows too on the Intel MacBooks), and you can download code from wherever and run it. There’s a terminal you can run commands in. If you want, you can completely fuck it up. macOS is worlds apart from iOS, and MacBooks are more a proper computer than probably even the Steam machine we’re discussing here.
The pedantic argument was about personal computer, not just computer. I believe it was along the lines of push a few buttons, not hack the OS. Sorry I made you mad talking about MacBooks.
That’s not hacking, that’s development. They’re not bypassing locked bootloaders. If Apple pushes for making it impossible to run another operating system that’s another downgrade for sure, but you can still run whatever code you want on them, ergo, it’s a computer. It’s got a terminal, you can write and run your own code, you can download unsigned binaries, you can delete stuff and break the OS, that’s a computer.
Try running anything on an Xbox Series S/X or PS5. Locked bootloader means you’re fucked from the start, and getting past that is hacking.
That’s like saying an unlocked Pixel phone is a PC because you could technically develop an OS for it. Unlocked bootloader doesn’t an open system make.
I think we’re using different terms for hacking. You are using the exploit definition.
Yeah, that could very well be a PC. You could take the guts out, put it in a generic box, attach a monitor and peripherals, and have a Linux PC that drastically outperforms PCs of a couple decades ago, with similar functionality. Those were PCs then, why would the definition change?
Regarding the exploit definition, yeah, that’s the good one IMO. The other one is more akin to “life hacks” or “food hacks” and I think it’s silly. Using a butter knife as a screwdriver isn’t a “tool hack.” Putting Doom on a toothbrush isn’t hacking, provided no exploits were necessary. Putting Linux on a MacBook isn’t hacking just because it lacks documentation and the Asahi devs have to figure some things out before it works.
I would be curious to hear your definition of hacking, though. To me it seems if you’re calling Linux on Mac hacking, then there’s a million other things that are hacking and the word loses its meaning.
If Apple locks the bootloader then I’ll completely agree with you. And while I do agree it appears they’re heading in that direction and it sucks, a MacBook is far more “computer” than a console, even if poorly documented and thus difficult to develop for.
I’m not really following your response. Steam Machine’s feature set doesn’t make the Xbox Series X/S or PlayStation 5 into computers. Yes, they’re x86, but they’re so proprietary and locked down they’re not computers in the colloquial sense.
If the Steam Machine can dual boot Linux, which I bet it can, that’s much more a general purpose computer than either of those consoles.
I think the difference is that the Xbox and PlayStation are locked down to their respective ecosystems with monthly subscription and only one online store. Microsoft and Sony have almost guaranteed return based on that alone. If valve prices this as a loss leader what’s to stop a large corporation to buy 20k steam machines and use them as computers instead of consoles. Then valve is just eating that cost with no return on the other side.
You are correct in that all technically fit the definition of computers. However consumers don’t care about technical definitions or think rationally about purchases. They don’t all do a rational analysis of the products on the market that would accomplish their goals and spend accordingly. They walk into GameStop and buy one of the boxes that makes call of duty show up on their living room tv. Just like the Deck fits the definition of a handheld computer with a built in screen and controllers for playing games but isn’t stealing any customers from the switch.
Deck isn’t selling millions and it’s doing just fine. The Steam Machine will be a small computer box priced as such and there won’t be a single person that decides to buy it over a ps5, and that’s fine. Valve doesn’t have to compete with consoles cause they don’t make consoles.
Valve themselves have said that the Machine will not be priced like a console but like an entry level PC whatever that means. The only people that will notice this to buy it are people who already know what a PC is.
I’d say the Deck isn’t stealing customers from the Switch because they are filling different market niches. The Switch is a portable console with portable Nintendo games made for it. The Deck is a portable PC that gives you access to your entire Steam library on the go.
The GabeCube, however, could absolutely pull some customers of the PS5 and Xbox depending on the pricing - especially with Microsoft’s demands that every part of the Xbox division see a 30% profit margin. The Big Three isn’t going to become the Big Four, but I think it will make some ripples. Steam running in Big Screen mode is effectively a console interface, and it plays Call of Duty just like the consoles. And with Sony finally moving away from console exclusive games, it means that Steam has almost full parity with the libraries of both of the consoles going forward while also offering access to all kinds of indie games that the consoles don’t. The GabeCube can play Call of Duty and Ghost of Tsushima, but it can also play Ultrakill and Bloodborne Nightmare Kart, and neither Xbox nor Playstation can say that.
Edit: And this doesn’t even mention old games. The Steam library has access to all kinds of old games that never get ported to new consoles when a new generation releases, meaning that its library grows in step with the consoles but you can still play your old favorites without having to keep buying them again or keep your old consoles around.
I know my case is specific but having a Jellyfin running on a Steam computer looks to me as good case for having a computer in the living room. Adding a TV applications to Steam such as Netflix is also a case. Then there are people who have their workstation close to the TV so they can use it instead of their laptop and just switch displays with one of these HDMI branching dongles.
Yup, I might try the Jellyfin thing as well. I currently use an app on the TV, but it’s flaky and the TV keeps losing network randomly. Newer TVs at adding ads, so I’ll need an alternative.
Hard disagree. I think that’s exactly who they’re going after. That’s why they added all the console features like CEC, wake on BT, background updates, and a controller-first interface.
I think that’s pretty clearly who they’ve been targeting for >10 years with SteamOS.
I’m not sure cost can be set aside from a price discussion when they’ve explicitly stated it won’t be a Costco rotisserie chicken.
With the number of consoles sold this generation, I’m not sure where the limit is for what people will spend to play the games they want. With console pricing has trailing budget gaming PC’s, I could see a number of people getting a Steam Machine in lieu of the next Playstation or Xbox.
What would be interesting to see in the future is the split between units sold to lifelong console players making a change, and pre existing Steam users with stuffed libraries buying one for the couch. If the latter make up the majority of sales, but they priced it like a chicken, that’ll be a problem pretty quick.
Hopefully it shakes out well and indie game developers reap some well deserved rewards.
For the Chaz’s coronation day they closed the food banks, and pre-arrested a bunch of peaceful protesters (released without charge afterward the event).
I just started playing on Turtle WoW a few days ago and never had as much fun in WoW before. Just amazing classic+ experience and a really nice community. Also free, is pretty nice.
Turtle WoW is just amazing. This is how you release new content without power creep or losing meaning from the existing content. I never enjoyed WoW more than with Turtle.
They just were, you can read up on it but from what i understand they actually didn’t want to destroy the data this time but instead have it handed over.
I don’t think I’ve played a game with fairer difficulty options than Halo: CE. On the lowest difficulty, even your grandma with arthritis can beat it, and on the hardest it’s an actual challenge without making enemies infallibly accurate bullet sponges. But if you can’t do it that way, do it Michael Zaki’s way.
You can install chips in your brain that automates gameplay features. Like getting your turret to shoot automatically, making you melee attack automatically when you are in range, dodge automatically, …
You can really customize your difficulty to the point that the game basically plays itself.
The only downside is that you miss out on using other cooler chip abilities.
Halo CE legendary was 100% an afterthought that Bungie threw a couple of multipliers in at the end because it makes like more than half of your potential loadout worthless lol.
It was still fun, but god damn was it borderline annoying like you’re playing a really unfair zombie survival game.
It’s not about the size, but more about density of meaningful content. I like Elden Ring because every nook and cranny feels worth exploring. It’s the game that dares to hide optional areas behind optional areas, all with their own unique enemies and bosses.
On the other hand, taking Elden Ring as an example again, the mini dungeons were too repetitive. The first time visiting a catacomb is exciting, but it turns into quite a chore after the third time and onwards. You’ve already seen it all. Same thing with the dragon battles.
I think Elden Ring overall strikes a good balance with amount of surprises per square meter.
I think it’s really interesting to compare a game like elden ring to something else like BOTW
My first time playing through elden ring I had an amazing time, and thoroughly enjoyed the open world experience. I made sure to explore every crack in every wall, not necessarily for the rewards, but rather for the exploration itself because that exploration felt magnificent
However, I’ve now played through elden ring four times over the years, and I quickly realised I was only playing for the bosses, with the open world merely being a hindrance to my journey. This problem quickly compounds, as the first few hours of a save is usually you running around buck naked looking for your weapons, smithing stones, flasks, etc.
This is opposed to something like dark souls 3, where your journey to get the build you want usually means you can a 30 second detour from your main path.
Compare this with BOTW, which I’ve also played through a fair few times, and it’s easy to understand why these games are different. Unlike ER, I honestly thought of the bosses as more like hindrances to getting the powers, which would help me traverse the open world. To me, that traversal was the most enjoyable thing about the game
This might just be a tinfoil hat theory, but I think this is because of the difference in rewards between the two. Unlike ER, which most rewards being clearly defined and memorable, in BOTW the vast majority of rewards are either
a) spirit orbs from shrines
or
b) korok seeds
While the shrines themselves can be memorised, I’d say it’s practically impossible to remember the location of all these things, mainly because there’s no point - there are so many, you’ll run into your fair share anyway. There are exceptions of course, with weapons and shields and the like, but for the most part it holds true
The Pokemon game that locked features and Pokemon behind paid DLC released alongside the game revitalized the franchise? Fuck that. I’ve bought every Pokemon game since Red and every console to play them on, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before I give them more money when they’re just going to use to sue smaller developers and while letting fascists co-opt their music and imagery.
I don’t think a Switch 2 emulator will come out any time soon, but I do respect the hustle. I myself am probably only gonna get anything Switch/Switch 2 related from resellers and/or used.
It’s already available, has been for a week or so. I don’t think the Switch 2 version is different enough to really matter; obviously, if you’re buying it and have a Switch 2, you’re going to want the extra performance, but if you don’t have a Switch 2 or are otherwise acquiring it, might as well just get the Switch 1 version.
PLA is definitely the better Legends game. PLZA is absurdly dialogue-heavy for a game that doesn’t have well-written dialogue, and they took out the damned Linking Cord, one of the best parts of PLA.
Also, there are scores of dialogue options, and the only ones that matter are your name and a handful of “are you ready to battle” ones; most have two options that mean exactly the same thing.
To be fair the “DLC” isn’t actually available until 2026, what they have released now is basically a pre-order, still scummy but not as bad as you’re implying. Edit:for clarity, they didn’t cut anything out of the game, they just have a pre-order for the DLC.
If before you’ve even finished a project you’ve already decided part of it won’t be included in the original project unless the user pays extra, that’s the definition of scummy.
Control is a very fun game, and Jesse was an intriguing character with an unusual backstory. Enjoyed my time with it. I’m optimistic for Control 2 and hope we’ll get more lore! And of course, something that hits as hard as the Ash tray maze!
I love Control, I think the gameplay and level design is amazing, the world building is phenomenal and some of the side characters are great. Jesse herself wasn’t really that memorable to me though. I get that she’s supposed to act like a foil for all the craziness that’s happening, but as a result she ended up feeling kind of bland and forgettable. I always thought this was intentional, as the main focus of the game was the world building and lore and the Oldest House. Having a protagonist with a super strong colorful personality would be too much and just end up distracting from that.
Everyone in the comments making such a huge deal of account security when literally all Rockstar had to do was allow people to unlink their Steam accounts from Social Club. It could even be done in their own launcher, with the credentials of the Steam account that actually owns the game. Then people could just make a new Social Club account, it’s not worth shit anyways.
They’re locking people out of playing a local, offline game, over some decade old account that I used my spam email for, and now I’m supposed to remember it? Get a fucking grip bro.
However, instead of participating in the game development, he chose to focus on a personal film project.
My assumption is that Krafton expected the leads to put in 12 hour days 7 days a week to meet ridiculous expectations and the leads took some vacation time or something along those lines. That would match up with common publisher behavior, especially the ones that trash people publicly.
They did not have any reason to personally attack the leads except out of spite, and odds are high that doing so will only anger the player base towards the publisher.
Trashing the devs was a terrible idea, and what they wrote was clearly petty and spiteful.
They did not have any reason to personally attack the leads except out of spite,
Lol what the honest fuck are you talking about?
They were facing a boycott because it seemed like they fired the original creators to avoid paying the employees.
They could have issued a statement saying that they would still pay the remaining employees and everyone would assume that they still fired the creators out of greed reasons. If the creators actually didn’t do their jobs, then they would want to make it clear that they are the ones actually committed to making a good game and this has nothing to do with greed.
That may not be the case, but at present we simply do not know what the reality of the situation was.
A publisher trashing devs of a beloved game with personal attacks certainly was a bold move.
However, instead of participating in the game development, he chose to focus on a personal film project.
We are deeply disappointed by the former leadership’s conduct, and above all, we feel a profound sense of betrayal by their failure to honor the trust placed in them by our fans.
If that description is accurate then there’s nothing unprofessional about that.
What would be unprofessional in that situation is the original devs not doing their jobs and then allowing a fan backlash to grow.
Again, we don’t know the reality of the situation. I think everyone would be curious to hear from other devs at the studio that aren’t part of management or the three who were fired but we haven’t yet.
My assumption is that Krafton expected the leads to put in 12 hour days 7 days a week to meet ridiculous expectations and the leads took some vacation time or something along those lines.
This is from the lead himself, on his movie production website:
I’m Charlie Cleveland and I’ve been designing video games for over 25 years. I founded Unknown Worlds and built games like Natural Selection, Natural Selection 2, Subnautica and Moonbreaker. I absolutely love making games but wanted to try something new.
At the end of 2023, I left San Francisco after almost 20 years and moved to Los Angeles to reset my life. Instead of taking it easy, I now find myself working on multiple film projects. It’s amazing how fast it’s all happening - being right in the thick of things makes it so much easier to meet like-minded people!
Also, according to this link, he’s taking a break from making video games, for at least a couple of months now, before all this stuff was out.
It might not be as one-sided as you think. But right now it’s he said, she said, so nobody really knows.
Early release was supposed to be in 2024. We have halfway through 2025.
Lead devs have said the game is ready for early release, so they are likely taking a break from a game they feel is being delayed by the publisher. The publisher is whining about expectations, not obligations or anything along those lines.
I’m with the devs on this one, project burnout is real.
The leads allegedly also were looking to gain $225 Million dollars (supposedly 90% of a $250 Million bonus), so of course they are saying the game is ready.
Charlie Cleveland did say they were going to split the bonus with the team, but imma be honest, why not put that into writing? Why take that huge cut in the first place, and then trust that the leads are going to do the right thing.
I don’t think at this point you can really be sure of anything. Since the former leads have said they’ve filed a lawsuit (but not for what they’re suing), it’ll most likely come out at one point.
The devs rushing the game out half added results in them getting $225M. So they have incentive to be shitty too. I don’t know enough about any of them to say which is more likely but that logic goes both ways.
I mean the former leads (or at least one of them) say the game was ready for Early Access, the publisher says it wasn’t. This could be the deciding factor if the studio gets the bonus or not.
Although today the publisher said some previously leaked slides were real, that show how the potential EA release fell way behind schedule over the years and would have been pretty bare-bones and that a delay would have made sense.
It’s funny—just a little over five years ago, gamers hated it. Not because they ever used one, but because it was a failure. And as we all know about gamers, there’s nothing they hate more than a failure.
Nice try, but that’s not why I hated it.
This smug revisionism triggers me hard. As a hard core steam fan I loved the idea of the SC, I bought it and really tried to use it, but the reality was just too clunky for primary use. It has no dpad, a single crappy convex analog stick, terribly placed ABXY buttons, horrible shoulder buttons, and just a bit too much input lag on the trackpads. On top all that was (actually, still is) a remapping system that’s way too convoluted to use regularly. There’s also the sad fact that alarmingly many games don’t allow simultaneous gamepad and mouse inputs, and simulating the mouse through right stick inputs feels like shit. I really didn’t find any use case where it’s ergonomically superior to a regular gamepad beside the always cited Civ on the Couch, and I’ve tried with sooo many games.
The deck’s control layout fixes most of the issues – the placement is better (except maybe the Salvador Dali inspired B button but I digress), there is a great d pad, two pretty good analog sticks and the input is snappier. Surprise surprise, the deck is a success.
Was the SC innovative, bold and ahead of its time in many ways? Sure. Was it a good controller to play games with? Hell no.
Fully agree. I tried to make the SC work and wrote off a lot of it as “I’m just not used to it”, but it really is asking a lot. In its defence, it was a first run product. The fact that it’s still ass usable and as weird is impressive enough to me. But it’s better as a piece of gaming history than a good product. It was just a good try.
I also agree with the Steam deck controls being actually good. I want the SC2 that’s just a steam deck without the screen or computer.
So I guess the opposite of the steam brick.
I’d gladly pay $100 to have a steam deck like control scheme for my desktop. Rechargeable batteries and a Linux first design would be awesome. I don’t mind just using cables all the time, but I would like better wireless options for Linux gamepads (though to be fair, I haven’t tried connecting a wireless controller to a Linux box in 5 years).
I bought it and really tried to use it, but the reality was just too clunky for primary use. It has no dpad, a single crappy convex analog stick, terribly placed ABXY buttons, horrible shoulder buttons, and just a bit too much input lag on the trackpads.
Hard truths.
Why did they feel the need to replace analog controls with these weird, inconsistently responsive, difficult to map touch controls when every other console platform had already demonstrated why that’s a bad idea?
Was the SC innovative, bold and ahead of its time in many ways?
NO. It was kitsch and poorly engineered and obviously not play tested sufficiently before release. It was a hobbyist’s attempt at reinventing the mousetrap that got shoved into a major distribution pipeline when Playstation and Nintendo and XBox had already demonstrated why you don’t build controllers this way ten years earlier.
Why did they feel the need to replace analog controls with these weird, inconsistently responsive, difficult to map touch controls when every other console platform had already demonstrated why that’s a bad idea?
I have no idea what you’re talking about. The DS4 had a trackpad that was clearly positioned and intended for menu navigation. Nobody used trackpads as a primary game control input before the SC. That’s not because sticks are some god-given pinnacle of technology but because potentiometer-based sticks are cheap and people are used to them. Analog sticks were always, and still are, a crappy way to control a camera. Building a 1:1 thumb based input source into a controller absolutely was innovative and, like it or hate it, I don’t see how you can contest that. The Steam Deck’s pads are actually pretty great to use.
Playstation and Nintendo and XBox had already demonstrated why you don’t build controllers this way ten years earlier.
Again, what are you talking about? The SC was released in 2015.
It actually is the most hilarious of ironies that despite what very real harm Thor might have inflicted upon the early stages of the movement through misinformation/mischaracterization; The fact is, I don’t think this movement would have come near to exploding the way that it has recently if not for the perfect Rube Goldberg machine of drama surrounding this man in the past 6 months.
Seriously. He could not have Barbara Streisand effected the “Stop Killing Games” movement harder if he tried. It really is such poetic justice. It’s a shame that I don’t live in the EU or I would gladly sign the initiate myself. Here’s to hoping that another EU regulation can have sweeping effects for the US. As a reluctant and very jaded US citizen myself, I harbor no illusions about any real and meaningful consumer protection regulations to ever make it over here. Mega-corpos have simply spent far too much money buying out every level of government, legislature, and regulatory bodies that exist.
Europe really is like a strange beacon of hope for US consumers, as odd as that sounds. Fight the good fight for us as well, brothers.
I can believe this, if he wasn’t such a narcissist or such a lying douche bag who always has to be right and has something to say about absolutely everything while having a story to go with it…
Then he would be a pretty cool guy…
Some of his advice isn’t actually bad though… I watched him for a bit but the more you watch him the more you see him for who he is…
I know it’s not going to happen, but I would love it if legislation could go as far as requiring companies to open-source their engines and servers after maybe a period of time, or on ending support for the game. It could be done ID-style where the company retains full rights of the content and trademarks, which would still require players to buy the game to legally play it.
I’m aware there are a lot of cases where games include middleware that’s licensed from 3rd parties that complicate preservation efforts. But if open-sourcing the code is the path taken, there’s a simple solution for that: just release what you can, even if what’s released is in an unplayable state without the middleware. It then becomes the responsibility of any volunteers to take that code and bring it back to a usable state however they choose.
This drama highlights that there’s still a great need for better computer literacy. Anyone with even a basic education in how software, source-code, and software licensing works can tell PirateSoftware is full of shit pretty much immediately. That is, anyone educated who are themselves not grifters.
You should only be granted copyright protections if you can guarantee the copyrighted material can become public domain after the time period ends. This would involve giving the government a copy of all source code and assets to preserve securely. This should be a flat policy for all copyrighted material, so 3rd party involvement wouldn’t complicate things.
The original intent of patents was almost exactly that. You’re protected for a handful of years, after that anyone can just use the patent as instructions for recreating it.
… then Disney and other fucking greedy ghouls of corporations got involved and greased the right palms…
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