Different games have different rules for how summoning works. If memory serves, Dark 2 was the “worst” because it was fully based on soul memory and you may have even incremented that by wiping without spending? Whereas I think Dark 3 was a mix of highest upgrade level for gear on you combined with Soul Level?
In general? When the game is new or having a community wide resurgence, no. There will always be someone who is SL200 in newbie village. When the game is older and not played regularly, yes. There are various sites (never trust fandom or fextralife) that list recommended level ranges but as long as you aren’t actively grinding more than a level or two extra per region, you are fine.
All that said? Be VERY careful about playing any of the PC Dark Souls games online because they are mostly abandoned by From. I believe the outright RCE was fixed but you can still have your game ruined. www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-XFIfmJ2T8 is a great video on the topic.
You are partly correct about DS2. It did increment even by wiping without spending the souls, but on the other hand the ranges involved meant that there was very likely always someone in range.
Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
Do Take Two games contain code to report telemetry and user information(including application/system activity) to a home server? ✅
Is this EULA change extraordinary and particularly egregious in comparison to others that most people have probably already agreed to? ❌(IMO)
Are people riled up because e a YouTube video went a little viral and now they’re all playing telephone to the point where it’s now gotten to the point of random dumdums are review booming a 13 year old game claiming it’s turned into literal spyware? ✅(again, IMO)
Should you be surprised by any of this if you’ve been even remotely paying attention for any period of the last 30-40 years? ❌
Do we need more than just angry idiots in the battle against corpatocracy? ✅
We should be done coddling the late comers at this point. Yes welcome them and accept them, but at a certain point your level of ignorance became a detriment to your community and you should be made aware of that fact.
A bit more than what, not really sure what your point here is? All of those bullet points are similar if not identical to terms in other EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru.
I’ll say it again, if you think this is anything new you haven’t been paying attention. I’m all for calling this fuckery out and pushing for something better. But like where yall been?
Still no actual answers from anyone on how this is ‘more’ than what I described in my op. Sure it’s a more detailed list, but it’s really not the “gotcha” everyone seems to think it is. That is, if youve been paying attention.
Let’s ride the wave. Turn this into a huge controversy known industry-wide. Then, next game that comes out with EULA like this, we say “THIS GAME HAS A BORDERLANDS-STYLE EULA”. Pretend it’s new to exploit the shock value and get the gamers riled up. Then, the industry gets better.
Tell the frog that the pot wasn’t always this hot.
What point are you trying to make? You say you’re “all for calling this kind of fuckery out” but then you’re criticizing people for calling it out? And who cares what other EULAs might say? The point is that the license agreement for this game and others owned by this company didn’t say this shit before, and now they do. The company is actively making their user agreement more hostile to the users which is what people are pissed about.
That it takes more critical thinking to accomplish the organized action needed for real change than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.
I never once said ‘other company’s do it so just deal with it.’ Fuckawhataboutism. I said “if you think this is new, you haven’t been paying attention.” What I shouldn’t have left unsaid was ‘the review is a nice start and show of intention. but we need a lot more dedicated, well organized action, to actually accomplish any change.’
But people read into things what they want to hear.
If you look at Valve’s TOS or any other game developer who has games with an online component, you will see the exact same language regarding data collection. The language being added is to comply with laws, like the GDPR, which requires specific language indicating what data is collected and how it is used.
The data that is being collected is the same as it was 10 years ago. There’s nothing new here, just a YT video that got a lot of views and social media being full of people who don’t fact check anything.
Some people will always find an excuse to change nothing.
It doesn’t matter how many similar EULA’s people have already accepted. The best moment to not eat it anymore would have been the first time it happened, the second best time is right now.
Also, retroactively amending an EULA is a different quality, since people have already paid for the game and would be locked out after the fact if they didn’t accept.
I’m sad you read this as an admission of defeat and an attempt to deter others from fighting. Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’ vibe but I’m not great at communicating all the time.
It seems like you’re giving of a “victim” vibe with this by stating you wished for only a particular type of “positive response” when you’ve posted a misleading comment and doubled-down with “EULAs half the people in this thread have already clicked thru” which you have no way of knowing.
Were all Take Two games automatically updated in secret and now hijack your machine with root access to spy on everything you do? ❌
10.2. Updates, Modifications, and Sunset. We may provide patches, updates, or upgrades to the Services, Virtual Items, Content, or your Account that may be required for you to continue using the Services, including automatic or “in the background” updates without notice to you.
“Was hoping for more of a ‘you’re late, you have a bunch of homework to catch up on’” You’re expecting others to hold your hand and inform you of every event or action taken by every company. I guess I’ll do my part since I have been trying to let other people know for a while now,
Steam Discussion deleted after questioning the “EULA” of Stormgate, another post by me after I tried to inform others and was suppressed, meaning the reviews is the only course of action that most have at their disposal. Even posting on their official subreddit did no good with the exact same type of response you’ve presented here,
They didn’t collect such information (they technically couldn’t), they are giving examples of such types of personally identifiable information.
Yeah, it’s excessive, they don’t need half of this. However, writing it this way makes it near impossible for them to screw up by accident. If you play games, you probably agreed to a handful of ELUA’s like that by now.
This keeps getting brought up in every controversial game these days and the answer is always the same: They aren’t.
Most of this is not out of the ordinary.
Imagine thinking all of this information about you isn’t already owned by several corporations lol.
Some of these stuffs are required in X countries not yours, stop thinking the entire world is all about you buddy.
You’ve officially become part of the problem and an ally to the very same reason why we can’t “accomplish the organized action needed for real change (than leaving a bunch of negative reviews.)”
I get that and agree, this is just a crappy and kinda dumb stick to be wasting the energy on because it makes the side opposing the injustice look like petulant children instead of enabling effective action.
I see this kind of comment before and I will never understand it - “other companies do it so just bend over and let us do it to you too!”
People say this all the time about Denuvo too: “Other games already have Denuvo, why are you crying about it here when you’re playing other games?”
And see, that’s the problem - we aren’t playing those other Denuvo games. And same thing applies here, guess what, a lot of us aren’t buying games from gross companies like EA with these shit terms. So when a company we are doing business with suddenly changes their terms to be shit, that’s a valid complaint. Some of us have already been boycotting bad business practices in the industry, so the idea of company changing terms towards the boycott after we’ve already invested in the game feels like a betrayal because it is.
So maybe stop focusing on what you assume the rest of audience is doing and instead go back to focusing on what the people at the goddamn podium are trying to pull?
Why does everyone insist on adding the ‘so just bend over and take’ part whenever someone points out another source of wrongdoing? Like what do yall always take it to mean that the speaker is implying a whataboutism argument? And not maybe as ‘oh shit this has been going on longer than just this maybe we should learn about that too and we might figure out why it hasn’t been stopped yet.’
If “everyone” keeps reading a sentiment you did not intend out of your message, perhaps it is time to consider that you are doing a poor job of communicating your point.
Or you’re being disingenuous and just don’t like being calling on your hissy fit.
Would it shock you to know that ALL of these are in the Steam terms of service also?
The only really sus one to me is the forced arbitration clause, and Steam also had that til they were pressured to remove it by multiple legal cases, including a class action brought to them by Steam users just last September. It is only sus because it’s outdated - companies are generally removing them now rather than adding them. legal.io/…/Valve-Removes-Mandatory-Arbitration-fr…
RE: remaining top 5 bullet points, 3 of the remaining 4 bullet points are uncontroversial bullet points about anticheat. The fourth is banning modding, which is also just a heavy handed anticheat attempt, and not uncommon for online games to add to their ToS to allow banning at their discretion. Either way its clumsy at the least as some mods can be harmless eg HUD mods for colourblind people and deserves some negativity - but not to this level, given everything else is just so boilerplate.
Collected data types: these are all for if you buy stuff with a credit card / paypal / etc off 2k/parent company Take 2. Remember, they sell games with in-game purchases. They also have an app which has location permissions option which is what the precise location is about.
So yes - again, as OP said, this is nothing controversial if you have paid attention to ToS meaning and content over the past 20 years.
Aside from the forced arbitration crap - which Steam, Microsoft, Amazon, Lyft, Uber, Google, AT&T - and hundreds of other major companies all snuck into their ToS over the years, and many have now been legally pressured to remove by consumer rights group. That is stupid because it shows their legal team is behind the times, companies are mostly removing their forced arbitration clauses nowadays because it has been the cause of many lost class actions.
Not a lot. Even when it isn’t a flatpak windows software running on linux won’t be able to interact with the system anywhere near as much as on windows.
How locked down a flatpak is depends entirely on the developer and what permissions they request. By default, they can’t really see much. For example, they can’t even see the processes running on your host or your user and system files.
Flatpak does not do anything about network access though, it can only do no access or full access, no in between. The data they can collect on Linux in a Flatpak is very limited but it does not prevent them from calling home.
So…if Steam is running in a Flatpak, and Borderlands is launched from Steam, how much can they even see…really?
Without using exploits to escape the container, not much. A very empty Windows environment with a single game installed, your network interfaces and any directories that the Flatpak has access to (usually just the SteamLibrary directories).
The TOS (www.take2games.com/legal/en-US/) changes are mostly related to data that they collect via their interfacing with Steam and through their website. This idea that they’re requiring you to agree to a root level access or installing a spyware rootkit is just nonsense.
A youtuber named Hellfire has been on a spree, basically discovering how fucked up EULAs have been in games for the past 20ish years… well this is all brand new news to him and and his Zoomer / Gen A followers.
There is, as of right now, literally zero evidence that Borderlands 2 has been updated with a rootkit, with kernel level anti cheat, anything like that.
The last update to its game files was 2 years ago.
This is almost certainly them updating the EULA everywhere, the precise timing of this being for some specific arcane legal and business reasons… TakeTwo runs a whole bunch more games than juat Borderlands… namely GTA V…
…
Is this EULA bad? Yes.
Is it much worse than it was before, or what other large gaming companies EULAs have, and have had for… a decade+?
Maybe by a bit, but not really, no.
…
Is Randy Pitchford a dumb idiot asshole?
Oh absolutely yes, but that shouldn’t give people the liscense to make completely unevidenced claims about other things.
…
The game does not have a kernel level AC or some kind of rootkit DRM, as many, many people are currently saying it does.
I guess gamer attention span can really hold onto a few keywords and phrases at a time.
… I say this all as person who is vehemently against kernel level AC, who has been pointing out for 4 years, that almost all existing anti cheat systems currently have at least one game that implements their AC, on linux, without using kernel level anything… it is entirely possible to do AC without kernel level shit, even on linux, and has been for at least 4 years. EAC and BattleEye have supported linux for 4 years, but nearly no game that uses them has actually used this feature/available and offered support.
I am glad that this level of hate is finally being directed at shitty EULAs, but lets at least get our facts straight, or actually provide some hitherto unseen evidence that Borderlands has had some kind of sleeper malware in it for at least the past two years, just waiting to be activated by a TOS update to every single Take Two game.
Moja rodzina jest z pogranicza. W jednym pokoleniu się żenili, w następnym się rżnęli. A czasem i to i to. Tak było od wieków i nikt normalny nie robił z tego sprawy na pokolenia.
Oczywiście, bo w rzeczywistości Polacy, Ukraińcy i Białorusini byli kiedyś jednym narodem. Znalazłam nawet na mapach Ukrainy jednogłowego orła na czerwono-białym tle z napisem “Ukraina Kozacka”. Musimy zrozumieć, że historię piszą nasi wrogowie i będziemy musieli ją przepisywać przez kilka kolejnych stuleci…
Moja rodzina jest z pogranicza. W jednym pokoleniu się żenili, w następnym się rżnęli. A czasem i to i to. Tak było od wieków i nikt normalny nie robił z tego sprawy na pokolenia
Also emp on stratagem call-in seems fun, but is a much lower priority than the usual (enhanced stims, pod optimization, anti-chip damage, and stamina recovery)
I find the pod optimization to be a bit more so so now a days. It saves from calling a resupply at the start, but many of the new maps are urban and have more goodies lying around.
They improved it over time, if you're using a password you can play without level limits in DS3 and Elden Ring. You'll still be nerfed if your level is higher though.
Not so fast, I kind of side-lined Clair Obscure for this game and I need to get back to that. Plus my friend has been telling me to play Dredge. Good thing summer vacations are on, I’ll definitely add The Outer Worlds on my playlist, thanks
Oooh I picked up Dredge in some Steam sale of yore, need to check it out.
The Outer Worlds is fucking phenomenal, dude. It’s pretty much exactly what I was hoping for when I heard the New Vegas studio was making a space game.
If I recall correctly it sorta changes over the course of the games. I think DS1 was primarily focused on character level, or souls spent on levels, while DS2 had a separate tracking system based on how many souls you have collected in total. Can’t speak too much on DS3 though.
For DS1 and DS2 at least, you definitely can climb those ranks to the point it’s difficult to find someone else that’s online and in your bracket, yeah.
I haven't read the new TOS but if this review is correct it looks like a GDPR nightmare for them. Good luck to them explaining why they need to collect all that personal data.
I just read the german version and compared them a little. (www.take2games.com/privacy/de/) Its about the same. But ist also reads fairly normal like any other privacy policy. I also think its in line with EU law. The collected data always relates to whatever TakeTwo service you use and whatever data you provide voluntarily or technically by using it. Thats fine by EU law.
Hm… Ok. Thats crazy. Someone wants to create a new branch of income it seems.
Thats a fucking shame. Now I need to reconsider my plans to buy Borderlands4.
But how will they do it? Which information is gathered from which source? Most of my accounts only hold as little informations as possible. Also my Os knows nothing about me. My MS account neither.
On the other hand my steam 2FA need some mobile information.
Checkout Jump Ship? It’s some weird borderlands, Star citizen, (insert other generic shooter) type game. Pretty neat, was recommended to me by a shooter fanatic friend of mine. I trust his shooting game opinion
oh cool, I can see that it’s similar Borderlands by the screenshots, and I can see that it’s like Star Citizen because it’s not actually released yet and they’re taking money for early access.
Unless you use Linux, your OS knows a ton about you. On top of that, with root access to your computer they can do whatever they want and if their system gets hacked you become a member of a bot farm or crypto mine.
Well I use Linux, but not on my gaming pc. I would switch to it because its all amd, but I don’t want to because it lacks the driver suite for my gpu (adrenaline) and I don’t want to install a bunch of small applications to gain a small fraction of options it offers.
It’s a pitty. Because I realy want to ditch windows since its newest iteration.
Fable 4 if it’s getting a mention. It’s the only game I’m actually excited for any more.
The only games I truly enjoyed these days have been unexpected indie hits that are impossible to predict, you don’t know theyre coming or good until they happen.
I don’t know why Fable is immune to my thickening shield of apathy, but basically every other game I see I just think “yeah it looks pretty but I’m pretty sure I played it 20 times before”
Hard disagree in my case. But that might be because it’s a new IP. When I play Fallout 4 I can’t stop myself of thinking what was and could have been. I obviously don’t have that with Starfield and found it much more enjoyable
I found Fallout 4 had good gameplay, but the main questline didn’t connect with me at all. I’m currently playing through Starfield at the moment, have like 220 hours playtime, I honestly wish I wasn’t finding it so boring but it’s easily the most bland Bethesda game I’ve ever played.
The story writing seems kinda half-arsed, but my main issue with Starfield is in the environments. Every location feels the same, and the planets are all just barren deserts with a random base and two caves plopped on it. At least Fallout 4’s environment felt hand-crafted, and not just like they rolled three dice.
I thought the main story was pretty enjoyable tbh. I can still remember some side quests really vividly as well, which is a good sign. The batman nod for example, or the 0 g casino. There was a lot of copy and paste, agreed, but the gunplay was fun so I didn’t mind that much. Also I spent hours on ship creation, thatwas cool
every time I got lost in the ship builder, I’d spend an hour on some crazy design, be a piece away from saving it, and the game would just lock up and stop responding to input. Only ever happened in ship builder. I lost like 4 hours to that flippin’ bug!
I like them both, to me starfield just feels like a newer fallout 4, but I also like space and the guns, but at the same time after playing oblivion a ton in highschool all bethesda games just feel like the same thing with a bit less. at least with fallout and starfield you could build up bases and stuff, ive actually been replaying oblivion remastered a ton since I havent really gamed in a long time just because its so familiar but new at the same time after all these years
It was fun building bases and exploring but the main quest was mad boring. Didn’t do almost any of that. Also the base building got boring after you learn how they just spawn groups of enemies and sometimes even inside your goddamn base.
So 50% score loss because of a permissive EULA, got it …
I’ll just leave this in the “Pitchforks against Pitchford” and “Woke, must hate” folder. Call me back when they do actually include a rootkit in their games instead of jumping the gun because loud feelings say loud things. If only there was some way to get statistics of the people getting outraged because of posts in a subreddit community and the people who don’t have a problem with rootkits installed by their favorite MMOs.
Let’s try this logic on other things. Their EULA says they can cut off a finger whenever they want. They haven’t cut off my finger for my purchase of this game, call me back when they cut it off.
If you’re someone that doesn’t want companies to have root level access to your computer, waiting until it happens is silly when they’re telling you it’s gonna happen. It is every reason to complain and be concerned.
No offense, but have you ever read EULAs? Even Windows EULA has a lot of “cut off a finger” provisions. It’s invasive, and people are right to complain. People might cry Linux, but when their job requires them to use Windows and abide by that EULA, most will crumble.
Like it or not, most EULAs are legally binding bullshit that more often than not has to be ignored or bypassed outside of it if necessary. How many people are watching YouTube and ignoring their Terms of Service while using adblockers?
This is nothing new in the world of gaming, and to the scale of affecting over 50% of the score of a game for a provision that is often included in other games they have no problem with is what’s revealing. A lot of MMOs and many multiplayer games do, but people haven’t cried wolf outside of a minority of their community. Pitchford has given his explanation, that it is a matter of the 2K EULA Gearbox has to adopt.
Let’s try this logic on other things. Are all 2K games that have this in their newly updated EULA’s being boycotted? Hint: Civilization is a 2K game.
Some things are just obvious when your head is not stuck inside the ass of a circlejerk bandwagon. It’s just sad that some people aren’t honest with themselves and and are not willing to recognize how easily they are influenced by people who are holding hidden grudges. Too many games are getting shit on because of this, and I say this as someone who is not looking forward to the next Borderlands game until the discounts drop it well below its 80 dollar price tag several years from now while plenty of loud people in this thread will go out to buy it on day one.
I agree they should expand their review protest to all games in the catalog and not selectively review bomb. Consumers have every reason to impact products success through their purchasing power and reviews. I stopped giving my money to game companies I don’t like a decade ago. It means missing some games, but there is so much out there it hardly matters. I don’t give a shit about this specific controversy, but I do think people have every reason to use their bully pulpit to attempt to impact consumer habits and therefore at least attempt change, even if they are often unsuccessful.
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