bin.pol.social

Skullgrid, do games w PEGI gives Balatro an 18+ rating for gambling imagery
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

this is starting to be horseshit. Every windows computer has a version of fucking solitare on it , there are other card based games that don’t get this treatment, and the lootboxes are actual gambling.

I thought at the start it was a type of beurocratical problem, but it’s been too long.

tb_,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

Not entirely sure about the European PEGI, but the American ESRB is funded by the same companies that it regulates. It was created after the outcry about violent games and was the industry self-regulating to avoid the government getting more involved.

It is a lobby group for the industry, for better and in this case very much for worse.

I assume PEGI is little different.

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

To clarify: the ESRB is the rating arm. The ESA that runs it? That’s the lobbying arm.

saltesc,

PEGI and many other groups are private groups. They’re not an authority of any form. They’re not associated with government, public regulation, or public election. They’re a group of people that create their own standards outside of the ISO or any actual regulation representing the public.

Some countries do have actual public systems, but many just have these private groups that know best.

2pt_perversion, (edited )

deleted_by_author

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  • LorIps,
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    In Austria PEGI is “enforced” in Vienna while USK is “enforced” in Salzburg (and Germany, the reason why they buy all their games here). And PEGI might be shit, but USK is a million times worse.

    ___qwertz___,

    USK rated Balatro with a minimum age of 12 because of “elements resembling gambling”. Sounds more reasonable to me than the PEGI rating.

    LorIps,
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    German Authorities (technically not USK but USK affiliated completely banned Wolfenstein, Dying Light, etc. Not 18+ or whatever it’s straight up illegal to promote or openly sell them in Germany.

    echodot,

    I can kind of understand Wolfenstein, as Germany does seem to have this thing where they do and also don’t want to face their past.

    But Dying light is a generic zombie game.

    LorIps, (edited )
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, it’s always stupid what ends up there and what doesn’t. And because of Germany’s stupid laws the German version often ends up worse than other versions (often even removing the English language option) (And people are surprised that we hate our northern neighbors…)

    Here’s a (non-exclusive) list of banned games in Germany (it’s in German but the game titles should make it accessible to people that can only speak English): de.wikipedia.org/…/Kategorie:Indiziertes_Computer…

    Oh yeah, Half-Life was indexed in Germany until 2017 (coincidentally when they switched from Elke Monssen-Engberding to someone less grumpy (half of the stupid decisions coming from Germany just stem from some grumpy old person who’s entrenched in a Department))

    echodot,

    I honestly think it would be easier to just list games that they allow. I suppose Germans are really into Tetris or something since that’s apparently the only acceptable game.

    LorIps,
    @LorIps@lemmy.world avatar

    It really has gotten better over the last couple years but for two decades they pretty much banned everything with the slightest hint of being adult. They are I believe also the reason for why Contra is Probotector in Europe

    Takumidesh,

    This is all well and true, but it’s important to note that these organizations exist as a sidestep to regulation, they are formed by industry insiders as a promise to the regulators that they will be honest about how they rate games (or movies or music) so that the government doesn’t actually get involved and do it’s job.

    It’s a form of regulatory capture that allows the industry itself to decide what is harmful to us.

    It’s basically the definition of conflict of interest.

    the_post_of_tom_joad,

    i got curious and looks like PEGI is somewhat similar at least. The ISFE is a self-regulating/co-regulating (w/e that means) body. There seem to be some kinda independent audits but… Looks like they don’t audit so good, if this article is evidence

    tb_,
    @tb_@lemmy.world avatar

    but… Looks like they don’t audit so good, if this article is evidence

    That’s the whole issue with it being a lobby group. It makes them a ton of money, so they are incentivised against making a rating for it because that would draw more attention/limit sales.

    And that’s where the whole government lobbying part comes in.

    the_post_of_tom_joad,

    Right i was just clarifying what i learned about PEGIs setup, that it seems similar to the US’s ESRB. I’m a yank and didn’t know before looking either

    tlou3please,

    In fairness, I would much rather that than governments directly controlling access, creating an additional form of direct censorship.

    Not saying what we have now is great or anything though. I’m not exactly defending it.

    tb_,
    @tb_@lemmy.world avatar

    I largely agree, but the interests have gotten misaligned. Back then it was the threat of regulation which changed things up, I think the governments should do a little more of that.

    HawlSera,

    That’s basically why the ESRB was created, it was “Self-Regulate, or we’re just going to ban 80% of games on the market as a scapegoat for Columbine!”

    JackbyDev,

    Luigi Mangione played Among Us, an assassination game!

    ricecake,

    Eeeeh, at least then there would theoretically be public accountability. The FCC has limited censorship power that they’re generally unobjectionable with.

    I’m honestly more concerned with the censorship from private enterprises than with government consorship currently. Less accountability and less recourse.

    It also really only becomes censorship if the rating system is used to prohibit speech. If we instead made it more like the nutritional guidelines on food it could instead give more of a content breakdown than setting an arbitrary age.

    1985MustangCobra,
    @1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca avatar

    did you just compare solitaire to gambling?

    frezik,

    That would be the point, yes. Balatro has cards and chips, but chips are just there for keeping points. If Balatro is 18+ for gambling imagery, then so should Solitaire. That would be stupid, so Balatro shouldn’t get it, either.

    RedAggroBest,

    I think the important note is it’s not just the cards in Balatro. Is it right? Not in my opinion. You have to admit tho, that it uses waaaaay more gambling imagery (you make antes for fuck’s sake)

    Arcka,

    Agreed, gambling doesn’t have to be for money or even anything tangibly real.

    damnedfurry,

    But it has to be for something. And in Balatro, there simply isn’t any gambling. You never wager anything to win anything based on that wager. All you have are points, and you can neither wager them, nor lose them in any way, chance-based or otherwise.

    There is zero gambling in Balatro.

    damnedfurry,

    You literally do not make antes in Balatro, in any way.

    You should know that you’re talking about before drawing conclusions.

    Cypher,

    I haven’t played or watched Balataro but from the description on steam

    You’re going to need every edge you can get in order to reach the boss blind, beat the final ante and secure victory.

    Unless ante here is referring to something else it seems it does have them?

    damnedfurry, (edited )

    “Antes” are what Balatro calls its levels. Each level consists of 3 stages, which the game calls “blinds” (small/big/boss).

    In poker, you don’t “beat” an ante, it’s part of what you bet. You also don’t “reach” blinds, nor is there such a thing as a “boss blind” in poker. And the word “bet” or any synonym should be pretty conspicuous by its absence in Balatro’s description. There is no gambling without betting/wagering, after all.

    So yes, if you’re familiar with poker, that description should make it obvious that the words have different meanings in the game than they do in poker.

    The only actual ‘mechanic’ that’s actually the same in Balatro as in poker is what comprises the different hands, and their relative value. And even then, there are also hands in Balatro that don’t exist in poker at all (five of a kind, flush house, etc.).

    Cypher,

    Firstly you could read user names before going off, I was simply asking a question that Im unwilling to buy the game to answer.

    damnedfurry,

    Going off? Yeah, you asked a question, and I answered it. What are you talking about?

    Cypher,

    Between your immediate downvotes and the tone of your message your response is unnecessarily long and rude

    damnedfurry,

    It’s exactly as long as it needed to be to explain everything it explained, and it is a completely dry comment with no real tone at all, the “rudeness” is of your own invention.

    Ironically, “Firstly you could read user names before going off” is far ruder than anything I wrote. Also, you’re assuming I’m the one who downvoted you–have you considered that maybe your tone earned that from someone else, maybe?

    ViolentPacifist,

    Your tone is unnecessarily rude.

    ech,

    Unnecessarily long

    Lol. “How dare you give me a comprehensive explanation of specifically what I asked about! Rude!” What is rude is being so shitty to someone that went out of their way to try and help you understand something, acting like it was a personal insult. How selfish and demanding of you.

    RedAggroBest,

    Do you know what gambling imagery entails? It doesn’t have to be how antes actually are used in poker for it to be gambling imagery.

    A game just has to show characters gambling for it to be gambling imagery. It doesn’t even have to be anything more than a level in a casino.

    damnedfurry,

    A game just has to show characters gambling for it to be gambling imagery.

    Okay. Well, Balatro doesn’t do that–no gambling of any kind happens in the game.

    So, what’s your point, exactly?

    RedAggroBest,

    The game is literally made up of gambling imagery. From cards to chips to terms, the whole fuckin 9 yards. MY POINT IS ITS NOT GAMBLING, ITS GAMBLING IMAGERY.

    I prefaced the whole fuckin statement I started with with saying it’s bullshit. DESPITE THAT BULLSHIT THE LABEL IS NOT INCORRECT. I hope you can stop being fucking obtuse and see my point after I’ve rephrased it multiple times.

    sukhmel,

    So… solitaire should be 18+ after all?

    wizardbeard,

    The term Ante in the game is used instead of “round” or “level”. It’s a measure of how far you’ve gotten. Each “ante” is made up of three “stakes”, point totals you need to beat in a set number of hands played and cards discarded.

    There’s no aspect of choosing how much you risk, of “ante-ing up”, or how much you stake. You either beat the points goal (called “chips”) or you lose. There’s no playing of your hand against other hands, bluffing about how good your hand may be to convince others to fold, etc. It’s just you against the score goal. If you beat it faster than the amount of hands you’re given to work with you get extra rewards.

    The game has no elements where you stake chips for rewards or anything like that. It borrows basic elements of scoring mechanics from poker, and uses a lot of poker terms for other purposes, but the closest part to gambling is the ability to buy random card packs between rounds (to customize your deck instead of just having the standard 52 card deck).

    In between rounds you have access to buy various things to add further modifiers to your scoring, and to adjust the composition of your deck in order to make getting specific combinations more likely.

    You can learn most of this in about 5 minutes with the demo, or by taking some time to watch someone else play on youtube.

    damnedfurry,

    Minor correction, the three stages in an “ante” are the “blinds”. The game instead uses “stake” to describe its ‘ascension’ system (a common mechanic in roguelixe games, where going to a higher ascension/“stake” adds difficulty modifiers to the game, for those who don’t know what I mean by that).

    JackbyDev,

    It’s near the line, I agree, I see your point, but it’s just the terminology and no gambling mechanics. You don’t set the ante, you just play. They could change the name ante to level and it would be the same. It’s not like you look at your stuff and decide how much you’re willing to risk. (You could argue skipping blinds is this sort of risk analysis like gambling but that’s hardly unique to Balatro.) There is no benefit from stopping earlier because if you lose on ante one or lose on ante seven it’s the same outcome. Also, if you choose to restart one ante one or ante seven it’s the same outcome. Because it’s just a score keeping mechanism. Nothing more.

    ech,

    It’s as much related to gambling as Balatro is.

    dragonfucker, do games w PEGI gives Balatro an 18+ rating for gambling imagery

    Why is he still using Twitter? Does he want a bunch of Nazis replying to him?

    bassomitron,

    Because, unfortunately, millions of people still use it. If you’re selling a product, it’s in your best interest to have as much social media presence as possible.

    Also, it’s better to have an official presence on those platforms so others can’t impersonate you as easily.

    dragonfucker,

    Then there should also be a version of the post on Mastody, and this post should be a screenshot of that one.

    LandedGentry, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • essteeyou,

    If you’ve ever made a thing that took so much time that it has to be your job, and earn you money, you’d likely have a different view. If you’re ignoring a percentage of your target market because they’re on a platform you don’t like, then your project might fail, and you don’t get to keep your house.

    LandedGentry, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • Tarquinn2049,

    If your stated downside to still using Twitter is that it’s a waste of time, is that invalidated if your posting tool posts to all of your socials with one click? Like most professional social media users that have to maintain a bunch of channels with the same content?

    Also, who is being dramatic about how important it is to be on or off twitter?

    LandedGentry, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • Tarquinn2049,

    Ok… but his thing can actually happen… your version of the bad things that can happen for still also posting news to twitter is all imaginary stuff that doesn’t happen in real life. Being upset about the direction Twitter and Reddit took and are taking is a totally valid, and honestly the objectively correct position to have about it. But adding in imaginary penalties for using it is not.

    LandedGentry, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • essteeyou,

    You’re saying it’s completely impossible that a game developer remortgaged their home for their project and then failed to meet their required sales by a small amount that could be accounted for by being active on Twitter?

    Like, completely impossible for that to happen under absolutely any circumstances?

    LandedGentry, (edited )

    deleted_by_author

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  • essteeyou,

    All of this stupid disagreement is about this:

    You either do the right thing and lose a little exposure or you stick with it and accept that you’re a part of Elon Musk’s political machine.

    For some people, that’s a choice between scraping by and failing.

    I’m saying: do what you gotta do

    nasi_goreng,
    @nasi_goreng@lemmy.zip avatar

    Twitter can reach various community from variety of region, like English Asia Twitter.

    Entire fediverse is still mostly Western community.

    Fubarberry,
    @Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Twitter is by far the larger platform, and small independent creators have to work to promote their game on every platform they can, if they want to succeed. The moral high ground of not using undesirable social media sites is nice, but isn’t fair to people who are partially dependent on those platforms to make a living.

    damnedfurry,

    Also, the simple fact is that there is no reason that any entity promoting their product has to choose any of these platforms over the other–you can just post to all of them, every single one that has enough users to be worth posting to.

    Cornelius_Wangenheim, (edited )

    I’ve seen several small creators say they get 10 times the engagement on Bluesky. That includes sales through promo links, which can’t be faked. It’s becoming clear that X’s numbers are mostly illusory at this point.

    caut_R, do games w PEGI gives Balatro an 18+ rating for gambling imagery

    They haven’t understood the game at all, I wonder if they even looked at it for more than two minutes

    Run game > see playing cards and poker chips > close > PEGI 18

    CosmoNova,

    They’re not looking into blatant gambling in AAA titles, of course they won’t take a closer look into an indie game. They’re completely useless.

    pachrist,

    Ah, but there are also tarot cards, which is spooky Occult voodoo magic. Balatro backwards might spell “Satan is Lord” in some ancient druidic script.

    KinglyWeevil,

    Praise Otralab!

    sukhmel,
    • ortalaB
    EarMaster,
    @EarMaster@lemmy.world avatar

    It can’t be that easy. PEGI says that games containing gambling (real money or not) are rated with PEGI 12 to 18. So there must be something else to the game that led to this rating.

    9bananas,

    or…you know… they’re just morons.

    sukhmel,

    Maybe winning a game award while being solo developer studio, it feels like this to me

    averyminya, do gaming w Weekly “What are you playing” Thread || Week of December 15th

    I’ve been playing Marvel Rivals since it came out and I’m hooked, lol. It’s such a good blend. I put a lot of time in Paladins but it’s been a long time, so it’s nice having a little group of friends to play with again. Solo queuing also has been pretty good overall, but once in a while there’s a team that is clearly better and it’s just a stomping ground for 5 minutes.

    It’s also funny how heavily it’s being compared to overwatch when it’s just hero shooters as a whole, and OW is hardly the closest match lol

    _Lory98_, do gaming w Weekly “What are you playing” Thread || Week of December 15th

    I’ve replayed Metro 2033 after ~8 years, this time the Redux version. It felt much less atmospheric than what I remembered and a bit too easy (I think I never ran out of ammo and in the end I had around 300 extra military bullets.

    I found a used copy of Bravely Default and I’ve been playing that, along with FFXIV where I was planning on starting endwalker but got distracted leveling crafters.

    sleepybisexual, do gaming w Please suggest budget controllers for kaizo mario..

    What’s four budget? 8bitdo stuff have nice dpads

    tal, do gaming w Please suggest budget controllers for kaizo mario..

    good d pad

    D-pads are the one aspect of a controller that I wouldn’t worry about much. I’ve only ever had one controller that had a D-pad that I wasn’t happy with, a Logitech in the mid-1990s that had a screw-in mini joystick on the D-pad. That rolled to the diagonal too easily.

    thinks

    Maybe the old NES controllers, which had a relatively-hard, non-rounded D-pad and could be tough on the fingers for long sessions.

    I guess one could prefer the PlayStation-style or XBox-style D-pad position, though I’ve never had issue with either.

    Do you have something in particular that you’re concerned about regarding D-pads? I’d expect pretty much anything out there to be fine, myself.

    bread,
    @bread@feddit.nl avatar

    A decent example of a bad d-pad would be the Switch Pro Controller. Unless they’ve fixed it in a later revision, the controller has an issue with outputting diagonals when they aren’t intended.

    Tedesche, do games w What game surprised you with their length?

    Xenogears. 80-hour game, and that’s without grinding for everything. And, it probably would have been close to twice as long if they’d been funded enough to complete it. As it was released, the second disc began with a 2-hour cutscene with a save point in the middle, which essentially summed up most of the second half of the story. Amazing game. Like playing through an entire mecha manga.

    RatzChatsubo, do games w What game surprised you with their length?
    @RatzChatsubo@lemm.ee avatar

    I love persona 5 but always quit after 40 hrs of playing it. It’s so damn long lol

    captain_aggravated, do games w What game surprised you with their length?
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Lufia: Rise of the Sinistrals. JRPG for the SNES published by Quintet. VERY large game for the era, there are a LOT of towns with dungeons to go through. Gets a little grindy mid-way through, it also manages to fit such a large quest with such a large game map on the cartridge by having relatively little variety in visuals. There’s one town tileset, there’s one dungeon tileset that gets palette swapped, there’s one cave tileset that gets palette swapped, there’s a relatively small number of music tracks you’ll be hearing a lot.

    The North American release of its sequel had a very late game dungeon that was corrupted, and technically possible to move through but you’d have to have played the PAL version to know what you’re doing. One of the few broken games I’m aware of to get a Nintendo seal of quality. Lufia II is actually a prequel, you play out the full adventure of the legendary heroes you play in the cold open of Lufia. There’s a cool detail between the two games, in the first, when the legendary heroes were legendary, the dialog is spoken very formal and pompous. In the second game, when we’ve been with them this whole time and they’re just people, the same dialog plays out the same way but it’s much more casual. “Come forth and show thyself!” becomes “Come out and show yourself.” Probably my favorite detail of the whole series.

    phoenixz, do games w What game surprised you with their length?

    Deuteros. This is pre 1995, I believe.

    Played the game for over a day, got to conquer the entire system, thought I was done but then I found out that that was only 10-20% of the game

    Quexotic, do games w What game surprised you with their length?

    DDLC. It was a free dl, and I never played anything like it, so I figured I’d see what everyone was on about. It was surprisingly short!

    Maggoty, do games w What game surprised you with their length?

    Ghosts of Tsushima.

    AustralianSimon,
    @AustralianSimon@lemmy.world avatar

    The several Acts was a nice touch

    jarfil, (edited ) do gaming w Is there any (single player playable) game with $10 which has made you point any go "haha" or given you an equivalent feeling because it was that enjoyable for every moment you played it?

    I’ve spent way more than 100 hours on plenty of games over the years, games that nowadays are below $10, like:

    • Doom
    • Duke Nukem 3D
    • Tetris
    • BlockOut (now, BlockOut II)
    • MS Flight Simulator 5.0
    • F-117A 2.0
    • Monkey Island 1
    • Monkey Island 2
    • Ultima Online (now, UO Outlands)
    • GTR: FIA GT Racing

    There are many free-to-play mobile games with optional ads, that I’ve also enjoyed for over 100 hours each before they became frustrating, but hard to make a list now.

    Many others have been mentioned already.

    iegod, do games w What game surprised you with their length?

    As an older gamer I want the opposite: shorter games. I don’t have the time to sink.

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