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Soulifix, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

Nintendo 5 years from now: "After suing multiple fan projects and intimidating them to cease projects, Nintendo admits that they were just fan projects"

This is the company by the way that's behind on the times of technology. Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?

justOnePersistentKbinPlease,

They killed Splatoon's grassroots Esport community thanks to them making a quick buck with splatoon 3, that promised a bunch of network functionality improvements that never materialized.

So now, a game that used to have multiple small but growing international tournaments now has nothing. Hell, they used to have tournaments on the main stage at PAX East.

ggtdbz,

Never got into Splatoon but it looked like great fun and kind of perfect for low-stakes competition.

Fucks sake Nintendo

Speculater,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a great game with a very high skill ceiling, but the MMR and team balancing was absolute garbage. It was very rare that it was a close match. You usually clapped or got clapped.

Coelacanth,
@Coelacanth@feddit.nu avatar

They’ve been shutting down Smash Bros tournaments as well.

SteveNashFan,

How they treated professional Melee and especially Project M was the moment I realized Nintendo was just another out-of-touch company. So many indie devs would kill for fans that passionate, let alone a modding scene that robust. Nintendo threw it all away.

Edit: and that ignores the graveyard of fan games Nintendo has killed. AM2R, Pokémon Uranium…

TotalCourage007,

Yeah this was my first moment also and largely why I will never pay for NSO+. How they treat the esport community is crazy.

john89,

I recommend going the extra mile and no longer buying their hardware or software.

Emulation is in a great state right now, and it’s only getting better. The fewer resources scummy companies like Nintendo have from sales, the fewer resources they’ll have to go after community products.

TotalCourage007,

Really hoping this isn’t a 3DS situation where they added a notch to gamecarts. Its so dumb that we can’t use game consoles like a PC and just fucking install discs if we want to without a shitty checking system.

catloaf,

Ok but like… given what I was hearing from those scenes that was probably for the best

Lost_My_Mind,

I never understood why they abandoned Splatoon 2. Like, I get that they have a new game, and that’s great, I guess…but why not support Splatoon 2 until Switch 2 comes out? I never bought the splatoon 3, because I JUST bought splatoon 2 like 2-3 years prior when it came out. You NEED online to play that game.

So you’re paying $59.99 for the game, and then $20 a year for online. All for a game that exists in a time bubble. Once it’s time for the next game, fuck you. Buy the new game. Your old game means nothing.

Well fuck you too Nintendo. I’ll just not buy Splatoon 3, and not pay for online anymore. How about that?

john89,

So you’re paying $59.99 for the game

You mean $60.

Lost_My_Mind,
john89,

Good job doing their dirty work for them.

Prices only end in .99 to fool people like you into thinking products cost less than they actually do.

Lost_My_Mind,

No, I’m not fooled about the price. It costs exactly $59.99 + local tax. Saying it costs $60 is overstating it’s price by $0.01.

BlackSwordD2,

As one of the leaders in said community for the NA scene I wouldn’t lay the blame entirely on Splat3. Things were slowing down before then and a lot of the old guard were hanging up their hats.

Networking left much to be desired, but we also started the grassroots on the Wii U after all.

justOnePersistentKbinPlease,

Fair, I have connections to a few that were fairly serious during 2, most of which were in tournies, one of those never bought 3, but the rest gave it a shot.

The ripoff that is S3 seems to be nails in the proverbial coffin.

BlackSwordD2,

Yeah the transition between games was hard. 1 to 2 was ok-ish as there was excitement on the switch. 2 to 3 was rough as the average comp player was between high school and college aged which had less disposable income to get the game right away. Not to mention each time was a hard reset on both maps and equipment that slowly rolled out over time made getting cohesive teams extra hard…

john89, (edited )

that promised a bunch of network functionality improvements that never materialized.

Holy fuck, why do the multi-billion dollar companies need to wait until their 3rd game to have decent netcode?

Edit: And apparently even that wasn’t enough, because it “never materialized.”

frezik,

Game Cube had a network adapter, but few games used it. It did let you do 8 player Mario Kart.

cm0002,

Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?

As on addon or built-in? I know the GameCube had an Ethernet add-on and I think the N64 had a dialup addon (Would have been the fastest at the time for home users, nobody had home broadband on N64 release)

The Wii was the first to have it built in

Soulifix,

As built in.

Deceptichum,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Peacock,

    The original Xbox (2001) came with integrated Ethernet

    Mrcheesle,

    I think you forgot about the XBox360

    Voyajer,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    And the OG Xbox. And the Dreamcast.

    YarHarSuperstar,
    @YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world avatar

    360 didn’t launch with built in wireless though. But yeah you’re right that’s worth mentioning

    JDPoZ,
    @JDPoZ@lemmy.world avatar

    If we’re just mentioning internet connectivity, the PS2 did end up getting the ethernet + HDD expansion adapter https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/000f315e-32eb-44b5-b142-611fddb3b314.jpeg.

    I remember playing MGS Online that way with friends back in the day.

    john89,

    Yep, and some PS2s (like mine) came with the network adapter built-in!

    Never going to forget the days of having a 30-foot ethernet cable running across my living room (right under the doorway) so I can play Battlefront 2, Ratchet and Clank 3, and of course, MGS3 online.

    radix,
    @radix@lemmy.world avatar

    Folks pointing out GCN/Wii internet abilities are missing that the experience was awful. Like sure, the guts of broadband were there, but actually playing a game with friends online was way more trouble than it was worth.

    So to your point, real online gaming was indeed way behind other consoles (IMHO).

    MeekerThanBeaker,

    I stopped playing Mario Kart online with others on the Wii. Some players had set an infinite blue shells hack on. Just wasn’t fun to play. Complained to Nintendo and they replied like there was nothing they could do or something like that.

    _____,

    on the bright side you could literally use their eShop to download games you don’t own if you had a hacked switch

    President,

    I’m pretty sure the switch didn’t support Bluetooth connectivity for years until they finally decided to enable it just after I bought one.

    That is the action of a company either incredibly incompetent, or that was hoping to exploit it for financial gain.

    Hyphlosion,

    Why not both

    rumba,

    Why not both

    Yup, they changed their minds. Bluetooth, Titles on mobile. It’s this mish-mash of bullheadedness for the sake of being bullheaded, then the try like a decade later.

    JDPoZ, (edited )
    @JDPoZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Nintendo is competent at exactly 1 thing - designing great video games.

    They are run by the equivalent of dwarven master blacksmiths… They’re one of the few gaming companies with employees on staff with more than 40 years experience of game dev (and whom have ONLY ever worked at Nintendo their entire careers) in charge of things.

    That’s great if you like Zelda and Mario games… but because they’re run by a bunch of old-school grandpas… they’re not good at much else.

    Terrible store, multiplayer, ancillary modern network-driven services like voice chat and partying up, little to no 3rd-party support (whether it’s games, media apps, or even tech integrations with formats like Dolby ATMOS), and - as a benefit - really terrible device security so it’s usually pretty easy for folks to reverse engineer, run custom boot-loaders / jailbreak / scrape their store servers / etc. - stuff that companies like Sony and Microsoft either never had issues with - or have taken seriously long enough that they have locked down.

    The only reason they’re still in business is that they still do the one thing that matters most the best - design really great game-play mechanics for IP that is beloved by multiple generations of gamers who will overlook everything else.

    driving_crooner,
    @driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

    I don’t think people remember, but there was a time when no twitch streamer or youtuber would play Nintendo games because they fucking take down their streams for copyright infringement.

    4am,

    I owned Mario Kart 8 for Wii U and it had a feature to record gameplay and post it to YouTube.

    I post a clip once and they fucking claimed ad revenue on it.

    Qwaffle_waffle,

    Sue them back, for a feature built in!

    frezik,

    What a brilliant racket. Have people do all the work of getting a channel going, then claim the money for yourself.

    _cryptagion,

    That’s not entirely true, you could keep the videos up if all the ad revenue went to Nintendo. In other words, if you paid them so you could promote their game.

    CileTheSane,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m personally surprised by Nintendo continuing to include user accessible SD cards in their consoles from the DS through the Switch. It becomes incredibly convenient for piracy and I would have thought they were doing it on purpose to at least sell the hardware if it wasn’t for all the evidence you the contrary.

    Ohmmy,

    IMO SD cards are not good for gaming and accessible M.2 should be more common

    CileTheSane,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    Okay, but as I understand PlayStation and Xbox do not have easily accessible drive ports at all. Or am I mistaken?

    007ace,

    The ps5 port only requires one screw to access. I know the hard drive on the PS4 was only one screw to access as well. I’m uncertain of the Xbox, they had a proprietary hard drive for the 360 so I didn’t go down that path. While that is slightly more complicated than inserting a SD card, it is not technical.

    Ohmmy, (edited )

    It’s not about what is common but instead that micro sd cards aren’t typically designed for so many reads and writes.

    Critical_Thinker,

    M.2 seems easier for normies to mess up and SD cards have traditionally been significantly cheaper… plus a microSD card is smaller than M.2 by an order of magnitude.

    Ohmmy,

    Yeah that way the ROG ally can cook them right

    stevedice,

    I’d love a handheld with a little slot where you just slide a 2242 M.2 without having to open the device.

    adavis,

    Like, how long did it take them to adopt broadband technology on their consoles? The Wii?

    While I agree they’re behind the times on their consoles re online, I think it’s more a software issue. I don’t think criticising the hardware functionality is quite fair.

    The predecessor to the Wii was the Gamecube which came out in 2001, where few people had broadband internet

    The other consoles in that generation were the ps2, xbox, and briefly dreamcast. Of those, only the xbox came with built in networking, until the playstation slim release in 2004. The dreamcast, ps2 and Gamecube all offered additional adapters to provide ethernet (and the dreamcast and Gamecube had dial up modems available too). So the Gamecube was in line with most of the competition.

    The Wii had out of the box WiFi (and an adapter for ethernet available) which put it in a similar space to its competitors. Only the ps3 had both WiFi and ethernet out of the box at launch. The 360 only had ethernet until a refresh that added WIFI. And the Wii was also coming in at a significantly lower price point.

    IzzyJ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    Just mild correction, the Dreamcast came with the dialup modem. So while it wasnt as good, it had functional internet for 99 out of the box

    Suburbanl3g3nd,

    Didn’t the GameCube have a broadband adapter you could buy. Swear I had one to play PSO

    eugenevdebs, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal
    Wogi,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Agrivar,
    1. That is NOT Michael Jackson
    2. What is so amoral about MJ?
    psycho_driver,

    What is so amoral about MJ?

    MJ had a very questionable relationship with children. Probably not GOP levels of questionable, but still disturbing.

    D1G17AL,

    Every single allegation was walked back by the accusers, AFTER HE DIED. You are believing a version of a lie.

    Chanceschaos,

    Also that isn’t MJ

    RizzRustbolt,

    I heard Rockwell was even worse.

    Rakonat,

    WRONG AGAIN

    jve,

    Every single allegation was walked back by the accusers

    Source? I thought only more and more allegations came to light after his death. That “Leaving Neverland” documentary came out well after his death.

    Also, that’s very obviously not Michael Jackson.

    D1G17AL,

    npr.org/…/michael-jackson-a-quarter-century-of-se…

    In 2011, in a second autobiography called Starting Over, La Toya Jackson retracted her allegations against both her brother Michael and her father Joe, saying that she was forced to make them by her husband at the time, whom she accused of being abusive.

    “My family and Michael knew that wasn’t really me talking,” the Daily Beast quotes her as saying in an interview. “I never believed for a minute my brother was guilty of anything like that.”>

    The Daily Beast reports in 2013 that after very publicly and repeatedly defending Jackson, Robson now says that Jackson sexually molested him for seven years.

    Two years later, in May 2015, a judge in Los Angeles County Superior Court, Mitchell L. Beckloff, dismisses Robson’s suit against the estate, saying that he waited too long to file his claim. In December 2017, the same judge dismisses the rest of Robson’s suit, filed against Jackson’s two companies, MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures, because the two corporations could not be found liable for Jackson’s alleged behavior. Notably, neither of these judgments address the credibility of Robson’s accusations.

    James Safechuck files a similar suit against MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures in 2014, alleging that Jackson abused him on “hundreds” of occasions between 1988 and 1992. Beckloff, who is also the presiding judge in this suit, rejects Safechuck’s suit in June 2017 on the same grounds he gave Robson.>

    His sister walked back her accusations citing her husband being abusive to try and get money from Michael’s downfall. The two accusers, AFTER HE DIED, were literally told they had no case. One of them had originally defended MJ.

    MITM0,
    @MITM0@lemmy.world avatar

    Typical jealous man falsely accusing a dead man because he can’t defend himself

    Now shoo shoo criminal

    Whatever happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt

    Snowpix,
    @Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

    The court of public opinion sadly does not follow courtroom procedure.

    MITM0,
    @MITM0@lemmy.world avatar

    Until it happens to them

    HawlSera,

    It’s been proven that he didn’t do that shit, he was a weirdo, but sex did not interest him.

    FBI tried to bust him for ages.

    zecg,
    @zecg@lemmy.world avatar

    Did you just all-black-people-look-the-same yourself

    silasmariner,

    Yeah that’s clearly Prince

    Qwaffle_waffle,

    Formerly Prince.

    TBi,

    FKA Prince.

    AKA “the artist”

    zecg,
    @zecg@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s not even Lionel Richie.

    silasmariner,

    But he was the one I was looking for

    john89,

    Heck, piracy is almost always morally correct because developers are only doing the least while charging the most.

    If they want to treat business as “us vs. them”, then that’s what they’re going to get.

    Tattorack, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal
    @Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

    You don’t say, Nintendo. Pretty sure they’re also using open source emulators, from the developers they really hate, to run their older titles.

    Sanctus,
    @Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

    Idk their emulation is garbage except for the suspension and rewind. A lot of the open source emulation I have seen, especially of Nintendo products, is immaculate.

    Buddahriffic,

    Not to mention the selection of games available is pretty paltry.

    frezik,

    Zelda 64 on the Switch was a mess at release, but the emulator has improved greatly since then.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-fYXwxuFxQ

    Matriks404,

    That’s just not true. They have their own emulators, but most of the time they are inferior to community ones. I think Virtual Console releases used some kind of optimized emulators for their hardware, but didn’t care about accuracy, etc.

    IceFoxX, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    So the lawyer says that Nintendo, despite knowing that the emulators themselves are legal, has unlawfully caused take downs and reputational damage. Sounds kind of illegal

    egerlach,

    Not really. It sounds like they haven’t gone after them for emulation, but instead for emulation-adjacent things: copying ROMs, circumventing digital locks, etc.

    They explicitly mention (one of?) the developers of Yuzu sharing ROMs in the article.

    In other words, the emulator itself isn’t illegal, but in order to use the emulator the way most people want, you have to do illegal things, and that’s what they go after you for.

    IceFoxX,

    Logical conclusion takedown of the ROM’s and not the emulator. ROM’s can be obtained without problems, I don’t regularly read that sites are taken down or people are taken up. That’s just a convenient excuse. Nintendo just knows that their only argument is exclusive titles. Who would still want a Wii if you could use it better on the steam deck with yuzu?

    I also remember that I often read that you have to organize such and such files yourself. Where then reference was made to original hardware/data carriers and not to Rom pages etc. I had problems with Zelda in particular.

    Schadrach,

    Right, emulators aren’t illegal but a bunch of adjacent things can be - for example system BIOS/FW/encryption keys/ROMs if you don’t dump them yourself from your own personal hardware.

    What got Yuzu in the crosshairs was announcing support for Tears of the Kingdom before it released, meaning they were testing their emulator on an unreleased game and the odds that every dev and tester had legitimately gotten a copy of the game before official release is so low that they weren’t about to fight it and go through discovery (which might have identified significant additional piracy on their part). It was easier to fold and settle, and probably saved them from an immense amount of fines for piracy used for testing.

    IceFoxX,

    I remember that Valve also caused trouble there. youtu.be/aRnZrSBK3R4Since you saw the Yuzu surface briefly.

    Sanctus,
    @Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

    Even vimm’s has been scorched of most Nintendo properties. So they definitely take down ROM sites.

    IceFoxX,

    I don’t want to contradict that at all. I’m not up to date and only read articles on “IT” sites, but these mostly refer to the fight against F/OSS which is then directed against the emulators. They hardly ever mention action against ROM sites.

    g1ya777, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal
    LouNeko,

    $600 <-> prolly three fiddy

    CaptnNMorgan,

    Not sure why this is getting down votes. Price is the key factor most parents look at, and most people who aren’t into technology probably don’t know what the steam deck is or know what “gaming on Linux” means. That is what is stopping a good friend of mine. Price is a huge factor, but the intimidation from lack of knowledge is just as big

    Blackmist,

    If it wasn’t for the fact that a lot of people here have a good sized Steam library, I doubt they’d have a Steam Deck either.

    It’s more a “bonus way to play about half your PC games on the toilet” than it is a primary gaming platform.

    zalgotext,

    Nah, you’re not giving the steam deck nearly enough credit. It fills a very similar niche to the switch - a viable mobile gaming option that can also be readily used for couch gaming. You don’t need a large steam library to get use out of that, just like how the average switch owner probably only has a few switch games.

    Blackmist,

    You could. But realistically how many have?

    stevedice,

    AAAAAH. WAAAT. NO. DON’T PLAY ON THE TOILET. COME ON, GUYS.

    TheLowestStone,
    @TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve tripled my library since getting a deck and use it more often than my PC.

    Tristus,

    That is not true. Steam games are normally much cheaper, you can also get tons of free games over Steam or Epic. Biggest issue with Steam Deck is the size. It is adult sized even my wife is not comfortable with it and it is too big for children. You would need to use it in combination with a controller.

    stevedice,

    Not sure why this is getting down votes

    Because Lemmings are completely disconnected from the real world.

    zalgotext,

    No, it’s just straight up misinformation, or at least a disingenuous oversimplification.

    The base model steam deck is $400 (and you can get steam-certified refurbished ones for even cheaper), and we don’t know the price of the Switch 2 yet. If it comes with even some of the hardware upgrades that have been leaked, I very much doubt it’ll retail for as low as $350.

    stevedice, (edited )

    The base SteamDeck doesn’t have an OLED screen and is still more expensive than the Switch OLED. As for the price of the Switch 2, it’s a well-known and documented practice that console manufacturers sell them at a loss and make back the profits in games. If anything, you’re the one spewing misinformation.

    zalgotext,

    The base steam deck blows the OLED switch out of the water specs-wise on everything other than the screen. Nothing I’ve said is untrue, the relevant top comment is pure speculation at best.

    stevedice,

    blablabla specs-wise

    See? This is what I mean by disconnected from the real world. Next you’re gonna tell me how open source allows you to unlock the full potential of the Steamdeck’s hardware.

    Nothing I’ve said is untrue, the relevant top comment is pure speculation at best.

    Brother, you literally said the Switch 2 is not gonna be around 350 USD. You have exactly as much evidence of that as the relevant top comment has that it will be. The difference is that only your comment was serious.

    zalgotext,

    Dawg you gotta be a troll if you think I’m “disconnected from the real world” just because I know that better specs is why the steam deck can handle modern games and the switch can’t. Also I said that we don’t know what the switch 2 will cost, and that I’d be surprised if it was that low. Don’t put words in my mouth.

    stevedice,

    Nope, you’re disconnected from the real world because you don’t understand the average user doesn’t care about specs they can’t see. You walking back your words now doesn’t mean you didn’t say them. Nobody is putting anything in your mouth.

    zalgotext,

    K agree to disagree

    Miaou,

    You’re insufferable. You’re wrong about be price thing, just fucking admit it.

    zalgotext,

    Did you respond to the wrong comment

    endeavor,

    What does the oled matter? I have both and it is not a big deal. Id rather have lcd deck than OLED switch with free access to every nintendo game.

    endeavor,

    I agree. Stupid lemmings not understanding that 400 usd switch 2, plus 70 dollar switch games that nintendo says you are allowed to play, plus paying for internet again is way cheaper than 400 usd steam deck that will get you around 20 or so games for the price of a single nintendo game off humble bundle.

    Wait, that can’t be right…

    stevedice,

    Every comment you guys make just cements how disconnected from reality you really are. There’s also cheap games for the Switch.

    Elevator7009sAlt, (edited )

    I feel on every single social media platform I have ever been on I will see the comment

    [This social media platform’s users] are completely disconnected from the real world.

    I never know how seriously to take this. I always want to automatically dismiss it because it seems like a “everyone here is delusional” type of comment and if I have had a majority of pleasant, reasonable-seeming interactions there I will really not like the idea that these seemingly nice people who had a civil, reasonable discussion with me are actually delusional, and by extension I probably am delusional too. And since I have seen it everywhere it basically seems to say nowhere online has (a decent amount of) people in touch with reality. But setting that aside for a moment…

    Obviously every platform will attract different types of people, probably not a fully representative sample of the population, a skew towards this or that type of person… but how far skewed from the “normal” experience is each platform on average? What is normal? If one platform has a wild skew towards one type of person, but that type of person makes up most of what I’ll see in real life due to my environment (like who my friends and family are, what my workplace is like), does its distance from normal matter if it’s no different from my real life normal? How much? Given that a lot of people spend a lot of time online, in which they often express opinions they truly hold that they would not vocalize in real life, would you say people who eschew social media have their own disconnect from reality in some way? What social media platform is closest to the average real life normal, which is the least “disconnected from the real world”?

    stevedice,

    Let’s preface by making clear that when I say Lemmings are disconnected from reality, I don’t mean they’re delusional. I mean they’re so immersed in their unix-like free-as-in-freedom open-source technobubble that they’ve forgotten what regular people want.

    As for the rest of your comment, yes, every social media will attract its own niche of people but not every platform is equally as disconnected from the real world. For example, nobody in Fragrantica (perfume social media) would recommend a regular person to buy a perfume that smells like cocaine and magazines, even though its one of the most popular fragrances among people who like perfumes. Meanwhile, on Lemmy, people love to pretend the SteamDeck is an actual alternative to the Switch.

    Obligatory xkcd.

    Obligatory xkcd

    Elevator7009sAlt,

    Thanks for clarifying. I do my best to compensate for any of my differences from what the average person wants, but it’s a bit hard if you and your environment also skews in that direction.

    At least with tech I feel I’ve got a somewhat decent handle on “normal,” at least for my age group, which is not “grandparent struggling to turn on the computer”. I probably skew a little more crazy compared to average, I did switch my computer’s OS to Linux, but way less than people on this instance. Although I have no comment on the Switch/Steam Deck thing, I have zero desire to participate in console gaming and none of my friends are passionate enough about consoles to leak any information over to me. I’ve seen Switches around and have no idea what a Deck looks like, which might be telling, but it is also possible some of my friends have Decks and I just dismissed it as “some object”.

    ohitsbreadley,

    Because it’s a false narrative, entry level steamdeck can be had for $399.

    TheLowestStone,
    @TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

    You can one for under $300 if you buy refurbished.

    Realitaetsverlust,

    Not an argument, you can also buy refurbished switch for 150 - 200

    TheLowestStone,
    @TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

    Sure. Can you play Baldur’s Gate 3 on it?

    Realitaetsverlust,

    No but what’s the dumbass comparison lmao

    TheLowestStone,
    @TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

    How so? Is the price the only thing you think about when making a purchase?

    Realitaetsverlust,

    If we compare the prices of two devices, we compare the prices of two devices, not the original factory price and a refurbished price.

    endeavor,

    Then why get either when you can get an used psp for like 20 bucks?

    Realitaetsverlust,

    Because there are no games made for the PSP anymore.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    most people who aren’t into technology probably don’t know what the steam deck is

    Idk about that. Steam is a wildly popular platform and regularly markets the SteamDeck to its user base.

    CaptnNMorgan,

    and regularly markets the SteamDeck to it’s user base.

    Exactly my point. If you aren’t using steam, you probably won’t see marketing for it.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Plenty of people use Steam

    stephen01king,

    And plenty more people don’t.

    CaptnNMorgan,

    Plenty of people do or use a lot of things that more people don’t. My point was that not everyone knows what a SteamDeck is. You rebutted by saying people on steam know what it is. Do you not see how terrible of an argument that is? You were basically conceding, but you worded it like you weren’t trying to make my point, even though you did.

    Yes, people on steam know about the SteamDeck, the majority of the US and world population, do NOT know what steam is. Therefore, by your own logic, most people don’t know about the SteamDeck.

    secret300,

    It’s getting down voted because it’s not $600 it’s $400. Which is exactly how much the switch costed at launch. Well not exactly. The switch cost money to play online. So it’s actually cheaper

    franklin,
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    excellent point and not trying to be pedantic, just pointing this out because i used to make the same mistake, the past tense of cost is cost.

    secret300,

    Fuck I’m usually good with grammar

    franklin,
    @franklin@lemmy.world avatar

    not your fault English is a mess of stolen arbitrary rules.

    Tristus,

    Additionally you can get the games much cheaper. Steam games are normally much cheaper than the Nintendo closed store. You also have Hero launcher which allows you Epic And Gog games. Epic gifts every week a new game. That alone is more than most switch players will own.

    ohitsbreadley,

    Uh, base Steamdeck is $399.

    Kerred,

    Plus accessories

    MrShankles,

    Don’t you gotta buy Switch accessories too? Like kinda the same things, if you need them… a dock, extra controllers, memory card, etc? But the deck, you can use existing controllers (from other consoles, or a mouse and keyboard you might have lying around) and buy a 3rd party dock that works just as well.

    I have a switch and I loved it for some games, but now that I have a steamdeck, it’s the most I’ve played games in years. Comparing accessories is moot imo, and can be cheaper on a deck… and the deck is just way more versatile overall. The Switch’s benefit is proprietary Nintendo games and that doesn’t tip the scales enough for me to buy a 2nd gen version. I’ll choose the versatility of the deck any day, it got me playing more games again

    SkaveRat,

    I have 0 steamdeck accessories. Works perfectly fine

    endeavor,

    I have 0 accessories. You get everything you need: case and charger. Most accessories are completely pointless rice, unless for some reason you want to use your deck as a pc. In which case it is still cheaper than switch and a pc.

    Kerred,

    Since I bring mine to libraries and gatherings, I use it like a Switch to plug into big TVs and four controllers. Thankfully it’s all still cheaper than the good stuff for a Switch 👍

    Epzillon,

    Probably cheaper than the Shit 2

    john89,

    You mean $400.

    ohitsbreadley,

    Well, given you’re on a .ca instance, you’re likely Canadian, so $400 probably is 600 loonies.

    endeavor,

    SD is way cheaper in the long run. You already have a sizeable library and if you don’t 620 on steam deck and humble bundle is going to get you way more games than 620 spent on switch and overpriced nintendo copy paste games. Didn’t you have to pay for the internet again on switch?

    john89,

    Me using a gaming laptop, a solution which has been available for over a decade.

    KazuyaDarklight, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal
    @KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

    The top IP lawyer at Nintendo agreed that emulators are technically legal at a panel for intellectual property rights.

    They run afoul of the law when they bypass encryption, recreate copyrighted programs, or point users to pirated material.

    nul9o9,

    Is it possible to emulate without bypassing encryption?

    wccrawford,

    In theory, it’s possible for games that don’t use encryption. None of which are official Switch games.

    SpaceNoodle,

    I don’t recall finding any encryption on the NES.

    ArbitraryValue, (edited )

    Yes, this wasn’t an admission because it’s a well-known fact that is not inconsistent with Nintendo’s earlier actions. The headline is deceptive and people don’t read the article. The article itself contains no new information and it is only worth reading for someone who has been deceived by the headline and needs to be set straight by the same people who wrote the deceptive headline. It’s click bait that shouldn’t exist.

    AnyOldName3,
    @AnyOldName3@lemmy.world avatar

    Nintendo used to have a page on emulation on their website incorrectly claiming that it was always illegal and all emulators had solely been created to enable piracy. This new claim is not compatible with their previous action of having that page.

    kipo,

    Repeal the DMCA. One of the worst pieces of legislation ever passed.

    Caboose12000,

    while were at it, let’s get rid of copyright and IP law altogether

    Lightor,

    I’m sure we’ll have much better content too, once lots of companies stop investing in games, movies, and shows if that happens 🙄

    Matriks404, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    There’s nothing new in this article. And I don’t think Nintendo ever said that emulation is illegal, just emulating their games is, which technically is true to some part at least in the United States, where sometimes you need to circumvent some security measures to get games emulated which is a forbidden (this is mentioned in the article).

    QubaXR,
    @QubaXR@lemmy.world avatar

    Yea, if I recall correctly, the Yuzu team was sharing roms of latest Nintendo releases internally and Nintendo was able to prove it. At least Jeff Gerstman podcast suggested something to that accord when reporting on it.

    psycho_driver,

    Yeah and the Yuzu people had made something like 4 million bucks on the project too. When you start making serious cash off of tools for piracy (and when we’re talking about a current-gen console that’s essentially what it is, not a tool for preservation like older emulators) then you should expect some heat to come your way.

    Nintendo has always been a bit on the bastardly side of things when it comes to fan projects but I can’t say that I blame them for going after Yuzu when they felt like they had a winnable case.

    GeneralEmergency,

    Get a load of the nerd reading the articles and making informed opinions. Just join the rest of us in mindless circle jerking.

    stevedice,

    A very strong case could be made that dumping your keys and your games is not bypassing encryption.

    Trilobite, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    Nintendo lost my business long ago nothing they make or say will get me to buy another Nintendo product

    KingThrillgore, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal
    @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

    Needless to say I will not be buying a Switch 2 today.

    Gullible,

    I imagine the steam deck will be capable of emulating switch 2 titles nearly immediately, so there’s little reason to buy it. They really need to make their hardware comparable to their software (minus the notoriously awful Japan™ netcode)

    ShinkanTrain,

    Emulating Switch 2 games on the Steam Deck would be a challenge. Even though it’s on an outdated process node, I think it’s fair to say it’s in the same class of hardware as a Steam Deck (which is 3 years old at this point).

    Deck 2, though…

    gamermanh,
    @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I think it’s fair to say it’s in the same class of hardware as a Steam Deck (which is 3 years old at this point).

    The switch was weaker than the PS4, which was the same age difference at launch

    Shit, I think you could actually compare it reasonably to a PS3 from 10 years before switch launch

    ShinkanTrain, (edited )

    The switch was weaker than the PS4, which was the same age difference at launch

    Steam Deck’s APU maxes out at 15W while a launch PS4 does 10 times that. Not a good comparison.

    Gullible,

    They’d have to sell it for $500, if it’s comparable to the steam deck. I find that unlikely, personally.

    russjr08,

    Hardware aside, to my knowledge no one is really actively developing any of the Switch emulators due to the prior legal action that was taken.

    Now, eventually it’s possible someone might do it for the Switch 2, but I wouldn’t expect anything quick as whomever does so will very likely incur the mighty wrath of Nintendo’s legal team.

    DoucheBagMcSwag,

    Good luck getting someone to continue emulation development. The only potential chance for development is exclusively on the under web, and the dev has said that “this was supposed to be a hobby” meaning they have an out if they don’t want to continue

    Theoriginalthon,

    Yeah you’ll have to wait until at least march

    sma3in, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal
    @sma3in@lemmy.world avatar

    we know emulation is legal, but we’re still going to legally have a legal reason to take y’all emulators to court angry face

    viking,
    @viking@infosec.pub avatar

    Bypassing copy protection has always been the number one reason, it was never emulation per se.

    IMALlama,

    See also: …wikipedia.org/…/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public…

    Strategic lawsuits against public participation (also known as SLAPP suits or intimidation lawsuits), or strategic litigation against public participation, are lawsuits intended to censor, intimidate, and silence critics by burdening them with the cost of a legal defense until they abandon their criticism or opposition

    There are many, many variants. The idea is the smaller player can’t really afford to fight in court, so even if the larger actor has shaky legal claims they will still win.

    mariusafa, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    I prefer my nintendont 2 (aka steam deck). Fuck Nintendo bastards and taking down all cool emulator free software projects.

    john89,

    Glad I still have my solid copy of Yuzu.

    Never buying another console again, and it’s been years since I bought a video game.

    The companies only have themselves to blame.

    mariusafa,

    Yeah I have a repo clone just before takedown.

    thingsiplay, do gaming w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    Nintendo never said that all emulation is illegal. Nintendo just does not like that their current gen is being emulated and lot of games are easily available on pirate sites for everyone. Otherwise Nintendo would have tried to shutdown emulators for previous systems too. They were especially worried about the Switch 2 being emulated easily with current emulators, as it doesn’t seen too different. I think that’s all to it.

    However, there are still a number of ways that emulators can violate the law. For example, the Nintendo Switch has certain “technical restriction measures” that prevent it from playing pirated games. If a Switch emulator seeks to bypass those measures, it opens itself up to legal trouble.

    Which law exactly? There are exceptions for making personal backup copies. So its not really court tested law and we don’t know if it violates the law. As the article said, these cases never went to court and we don’t have a decision by law. Nintendo did all of that out of court.

    DdCno1,

    Nintendo went even further than that:

    tech4gamers.com/nintendo-linking-emulator-traffic…

    And they absolutely have said that emulation is illegal in the past:

    slashgear.com/…/are-video-game-emulators-illegal-…

    On their website, they name emulators in a list of “illegal activities” they want people to snitch on:

    To report ROM sites, emulators, Game Copiers, Counterfeit manufacturing, or other illegal activities

    …nintendo.com/…/how-to-report-potential-infringem…

    thingsiplay,

    Those articles are wrong. Nintendo says Switch emulation is illegal, not all emulation is illegal.

    DdCno1,

    They have always argued that emulating a current system is illegal, which makes no legal sense. Either every kind of emulation is or none.

    thingsiplay,

    It makes sense from argumentation standpoint, because Nintendo argues that there are protection mechanisms in the Switch that is illegal to ignore, in emulators. I don’t know if this is true and you don’t know either, because this was not tested in court. Nintendo never ever said that ALL emulation is illegal, which i stated in my initial reply. Otherwise Nintendo would go and take down ALL emulators. Not every kind of emulation is the same.

    In example the Dolphin emulator ships with keys extracted from the console. Some say its illegal to distribute these keys, others argue keys are not copyrighted and its not illegal to share, but it was never tested in court either. If Nintendo had a case, they would definitely go against that emulator, as the keys are in the source code in the open public. Nintendo never said that Dolphin or Wii and Gamecube emulation is illegal. Or any other prior console and emulator of Nintendo systems. Nintendo console emulators exist in the public since the 90s.

    Its much more nuanced than people are making or understanding. And lot of articles, like the one stated before, are plain and simple wrong and cite without context. And people who don’t understand the situation take this and believe it.

    Chewy7324,

    Great comment!

    There’s similar legal issues with the “right to a private copy” many European countries have. Those laws were made to allow people to make a copy of their media, in case the original breaks. Important to note is that those private copies weren’t allowed to be distributed to anyone, not even lent to a friend.

    This worked well at the time for cassettes and VHS, which did break occasionally.

    But at some point most CDs came with copy protection, which got broken pretty quickly. But at least in Germany, they are still considered “working copy protection” and thus are illegal to circumvent, even for a otherwise legal private copy.

    The same is the case with Switch games: Copyright owners use copy protection to make otherwise legal use cases illegal.

    E.g. Nintendo made it so that Switch games can only be played by decrypting the ROMs, which is illegal for anyone except Nintendo.

    At least that’s their standpoint which was never tested in court but it’s not unlikely that it’d be accepted.

    thingsiplay,

    But this is still to be discussed, because if the emulator does not circumvent any copy protection and the games are dumped with the protection in place, and the copy protection is reverse engineered, then the games would play with the copy protection decrypting. It does not circumvent the protection, it actively “uses” it. So from that standpoint making backup copies is not illegal in theory. Now would this hold in court? I don’t know. Nintendo does not know either and rather like to take things out of court. Because if Nintendo looses such a case, it would be devastating.

    I’m in Germany too and the right to a private copy is exactly what I had in mind too. Not all copy protection measures were accepted for the right to not copy. What I mean is, there was some extremely simple protection mechanisms that were not accepted as a working and effective copy protections, and you were allowed to do a copy; even with the so called copy protection in place. Therefore it effectiveness was kind of important to the discussion too. I guess the Switch has a much more advanced one, so its probably not an exception.

    spit_evil_olive_tips,

    Which law exactly?

    the paragraph after the one you quoted answers this question:

    Note that this discussion was based on Japanese law, but the same language is found in the DMCA Section 1201(a)(1)(A): “No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.” That law is more than 26 years old, going into effect a month after Google was founded, but the language remains in place.

    thingsiplay,

    It makes no sense to cite a little part of the US DMCA law if the discussion was based on Japanese laws. If you look at www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201 , its much more complicated than one sentence. As for the DMCA, this is the next paragraph after the cited above one:

    (B) The prohibition contained in subparagraph (A) shall not apply to persons who are users of a copyrighted work which is in a particular class of works, if such persons are, or are likely to be in the succeeding 3-year period, adversely affected by virtue of such prohibition in their ability to make noninfringing uses of that particular class of works under this title, as determined under subparagraph ©.

    I admit not really to understand, as the language is hard to read for me. It would even be hard in my native language. Does the Japanese law have such clauses and exceptions?

    spit_evil_olive_tips,

    both the DMCA in the US as well as that Japanese law are implementations of the 1996 WIPO Copyright Treaty. that is why they can be discussed in a fairly interchangeable way.

    ceenote, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    So when they shut down Ryujinx and Yuzu, was it basically “Stop running this emulator or we will ruin your lives with legal bills”?

    iAmTheTot,

    Iirc, and take this with a grain of salt, ryujinx actually got paid by Nintendo to stop development.

    stevedice,

    That’s a rumor. All we know is that they talked with the dev behind closed doors and he deleted everything related to Ryujinx afterwards. Sure, they could have paid him but it’s just as likely that they just threatened him. Let’s not forget how Nintendo made its money.

    audaxdreik, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    With the Switch 2 announcement, it’s kind of clear that they aren’t even trying to be a tech company anymore. While not every last one of their consoles released was a true innovation, it did feel like something that was built into part of their brand. Now we just have the Switch 2 which is mostly what you’d expect with some decent QoL upgrades.

    Nintendo is pursuing the walled garden approach. You’re barely even buying a console anymore, a lot of this hardware has more or less converged. What you’re buying is access to the cultivated ecosystem. Like everything else these days, they entice you in with the big, recognizable brands and hope there’s enough else to keep you there. Emulators straight pierce that veil and it’s why they went so hard on them.

    I’m not criticizing (too heavily) the people that choose to hold on to the franchises they love, but once you step outside and choose alternatives, there’s very little to bring you back. Pokemon lost me a few gens ago, honestly not the biggest Zelda fan, and Mario alone won’t do it for me. Metroid and Starfox are scattershot … Personally I’ll stick with the Steam Deck and wait for Switch 2 emulation to roll around. And if it doesn’t, there are just so many other games to play these days.

    Kyrgizion,

    . You’re barely even buying a console anymore, a lot of this hardware has more or less converged. What you’re buying is access to the cultivated ecosystem.

    Bingo. In an age where most people’s phones have better hardware than the Switch, it’s all about access to the walled garden instead of hardware.

    addie,
    @addie@feddit.uk avatar

    Not that I disagree with your point about walled gardens, but “better” hardware for a handheld gaming machine needs to have a decent balance between performance and battery life. Longest plane or train journey that I’m likely to take is about five hours, and I’d need to rate any gaming hardware on the ability to run for that length of time. On that basis, the Switch is pretty much optimal. My phone has a higher resolution and can probably push more frames, but it would run hot for about forty-five minutes maximum. Plus, I’d then not be able to make calls or listen to tunes at my destination.

    Steam deck would probably be a better choice, though. Fuck Nintendo.

    turkalino,

    What walled garden are you talking about? Exclusive games? Literally every console ever made has those.

    Nintendo bad for making QoL console releases? Again, Nintendo is not the only company to do that. PS4/PS5 Pro, the recent Xboxes, etc

    With emulators, they’re only trying to protect their current hardware. They’ve put basically zero effort into shutting down emulators for consoles they don’t sell anymore. Yeah, I’m with everyone else in wishing they didn’t shut down the switch emulators but it’s somewhat understandable that they’re trying to protect their revenue from hardware sales

    Linktank,

    How do you see with your nose so far up Nintendo’s butt?

    CileTheSane,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    Nintendo bad for making QoL console releases? Again, Nintendo is not the only company to do that. PS4/PS5 Pro, the recent Xboxes, etc

    Nintendo has a history of doing something different each hardware generation: Snes had the 4 button + shoulder buttons controller. N64 controller was designed for someone with 3 hands, DS had 2 screens, 3DS had 3d without glasses, Wii had motion controls, Wii U the tablet controller, Switch is a console and portable… Every system had something that made it unique. What’s unique about the Switch 2?
    Nintendo is not able to compete with other consoles on power, it’s the unique hardware that gives a reason to own it over something else.

    They’ve put basically zero effort into shutting down emulators for consoles they don’t sell anymore.

    Technically correct. They may not be shutting down emulators, but if they hear a whisper of a ROM for Mappy Land on the NES they have their lawyers on speed dial. ( Me typing that sentence means someone from Nintendo is now watching this thread to see if anyone links to a ROM.)

    HobbitFoot,

    I don’t think Nintendo ever tried to be a tech company. They have always been a game company first and foremost. If they were ever a kind of tech company, the closest analogy would be Apple, another company that focused on consumer electronics.

    Linktank,

    I wouldn’t say ALWAYS, seeing as how they also tried their hand at taxis and love hotels for a while there.

    secret300, do games w After shutting down several popular emulators, Nintendo admits emulation is legal

    Nintendo needs to burn. The fact they can just shut down whatever they want is disgusting and needs to be stopped.

    john89,

    Copyright and patent laws need to die.

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