I feel the opposite. I pay for the narrative and experiencing the game’s mechanics and interactive art, not to flush as much of my life away as possible. When I see people complaining a game was too short, I am basically ready to add it to my wishlist.
Well, I guess I’m somewhere in the middle. I’ve finished games and thought, that’s it? But I want a game that makes me WANT to spend more time with it, not one that forces me to grind an area for hours just to milk more time spent in the game. If I spent two hours on a game and I’m still in the tutorial, I’m probably not coming back to it.
I want to want to spend more time with the game, but i also want it to not let me. Eject me forcibly from its world once the story has naturally concluded, with fond memories of the tightly edited purposeful experience.
What’s the timeframe within that I am curious. I am not the type of person to spend 100 hours playing a game though I regularly see that online and on my friends list, for example I spent 19 hours playing Metro Exodus recently, 28 hours on God of War and 34 on horizon zero dawn. I feel like that is around the amount of time I want to spend on those games and would feel like 10 hours to complete the story and most objectives is too short.
Really depends on the game. But roughly something between 3-20 hours is my preferred range. I thought Sayonara Wild Hearts was fantastic and the perfect length for the story and experience it set out to convey (took me about 2 hours to beat).
There’s too many games in the world that I want to play and I like to change it up in terms of what kinds of games in playing, and often have different games on the go at the same time on different platforms to keep up with my adhd. I really appreciate short games that give me a full experience without overstaying it’s welcome. Very few games can keep me going 30+ hours in, they have to either be REALLY good, the most fun I’ve had in ages or a truly gripping storyline with fantastic pacing, especially if it’s an RPG expecting 100+ hours.
Some busywork in games is fine as long as it’s not overdone. the insomniac Spider-Man games come to mind with that. Traversal and combat are fun enough to carry those games through any lull it may have that it actually makes going around ticking stuff off the map genuinely fun for me. And usually I hate it when games just fill a map with icons of things for you to do. It helps that its world isn’t THAT big compared to the likes of farcry, at least relatively to how fast you can traverse it.
I had to stop playing long single player games because of time constraints. Having a full time job and family means little.time remains for free time and that free time is not consistent. So if I do try to start a big new game the next time I find time to go back to it I will have forgotten where the story was, what the controls were and very quickly give up on it and go back to quick pick up and play games.
It’s great that the well-paid gamers have their options of exciting, linear singleplayer games. Realistically, if we want AAA gaming to be defined by that, it needs to be profitable enough, which means people buying those games on release consistently, and even maybe accepting the $70 price tags.
Some people do so - but many others are only buying one or two games a year due to shrinking personal budget. And those games need to fill the hundreds of spare hours they’ll have during that year.
The situation could be reversed if more people had a generously-sized personal budget; if they weren’t fearful of managing their rent each month, or debating whether to save a few pennies from their paycheck for retirement. $40 or even $70 for the hot new 10-hour singleplayer game of the month shouldn’t be a lot in the grand scheme of things, but it’s everything in a world with so much income disparity.
This was one of my favorite games in when I was younger, almost 20 years ago now. I had no idea people were keeping it going. It makes me happy to see that it’s still alive.
EVE has been combating bots for years, optimal gameplay is often relatively simple to automate. I’m not sure they’ll be all that disruptive.
(and the time it would take to implement data collection for a learning model is unlikely to be spent by anyone, for how much effort it would be considering the questionable gains over ‘dumb’ bots)
I haven’t played in nearly a decade, but it used to be an open secret that the Eve economy wouldn’t function without high sec bot miners flooding the market with tritanium.
You really don’t need any AI (assuming you mean LLMs like ChatGPT) to bot the shit out of Eve - the way the game fundamentally functions makes it dead simple to bot (it’s not like WoW where you have to deal with pathfinding or positioning for combat) - you could write a mining bot in a weekend, and it’s dead hard to catch because “normal” mining basically looks indistinguishable from botting
This looks cool, didn’t know it was still going strong. Last time I played Freelancer (vanilla) was during my military duty almost 15 years ago, when stuck on night duty. Brought it in and played with some of the other soldiers. It was a fun time, but we didn’t get too much into it then unfortunately.
okay i watched a little. Very very cool! I didn’t know that this was what Freelancer looked like these days, and this is a very cool way to find out about this Discovery mod. Thank you for sharing! Seems very interesting, I might have to read more about it when i get some free time.
This mod reminds me a lot of STALKER Anomaly, which was a mod for the STALKER games that dropped within the past few years. Basically stitches the maps from all three STALKER games together, fixes all the bugs, and adds a much deeper metagame. GAMMA was the refinement that came out a year or two ago, which slaps a ton of extra mods into it so it looks kind of like a modern game on top of everything else. I have not played either of these mods (I decided to try playing through one of the main games instead), but i know they blew up in a similar way to this one.
The mod has been consistently going since 2005, so they’ve had a lot of time to build up assets! There’s a lot of snazzy new features, but everything still aims to integrate with Freelancer’s original setting and lore. Mixed success, but it works more often than not. There’s a community Discord if you wanted to take a look around or ask questions.
Holy crap this was amazing work.
I was active during "the Providence Wars" (shoutout to all Ushra'Khan peeps) and it's probably the most immersive MMO-experience I've ever had.
Good times with 4am alarm clock stront hauling ops
I booted it up yesterday. Flew around at 10 FPS and gawked at some pretty locations. Bought armor and weapons for my allotted alpha money and crashed.
Booted it back up today, all gone. FPS was better. Took an elevator and got stuck in an ether-world. Respawned. Had to wait 10 real-time minutes for my ship to be “delivered” to the station it should’ve already been at. Flew to a lagrange point just to see the volumetric gas clouds. Couldn’t find any stations. RTB, quit, uninstalled.
I’m going to be brutally honest; if they do not start designing their ship cockpits with at least input from a real pilot then I’m gonna start being upset about it. You can’t see anything! Huge canopies in fighter cockpits, can’t see shid. I would accept this if they had implemented synthetic vision so you could just x-ray through the ship hull, but you can’t, and I’ve never heard them talk about it so I assume it’s not on the table. A lot of the ship HUDs are also dense with useless information, blocking more of my view.
Waiting 10 whole minutes to get your ship back is the devs not respecting the player’s time.
I know why they do it though, they want people to buy more ships so that they have one ready while the original is in a cool down period. This is also a similar tactic used by shitty mobile phone games.
The only time you have to wait for the ship is if it’s destroyed or lost. If you fly it to the station or landing zone and stow it, the delivery is immediate.
And you can buy and rent ships in-game, using in-game money. This is about preventing you from instantly jumping back in the same ship repeatedly which could have huge implications for PvP, for instance.
The point still stands though. Arbitrary time restrictions like this make it more difficult to enjoy the game because you don’t get to fly the cool spaceships anymore, now you’re stuck on land or in a station somewhere until the timer expires.
Exactly. One could spend at least 10 mins just getting provisions like food liquids and gear by walking/running across the station and trams. Plenty to do with how spaced out (no pun intended) the facilities are. Maybe they should put ship insurance kiosks near the apts so that by the time you get to the space port you’d have to wait a minimum amount of time.
They really just haven’t implemented the insurance kiosks yet. I do think they should take a lesson from real life and let those claims happen remotely.
I’m happy that the Citizen Con update included S42 being feature complete. I hope they will start moving some resources back to SC with that.
What people often forget is that SC has been a minor focus for a couple of years while they finish up Squadron.
They do mention exactly this. Once S42 drops we will start to see a flood of quality of life improvements in SC. This is one of the reasons my main fighter is the Aegis Gladius.
Yeah there is plenty more to come they just need to finish up S42 and get that on a slow burn to deal with the inevitable bugs, and reallocate resources to the verse.
Been out of the game for about a year now and a lot has changed and it seems like there are nearing completion on some of the major framework. I think with the reallocation and framework mostly complete we’ll finally get some real content.
Those are excellent points if the game wasn’t a broken mess where your ship will blow up on the pad for no reason. It’s a tech demo, they even say as much, so I don’t understand why you have to insist that it’s a real game that people totally play for realsies. There are like 14 people who play the current iteration seriously, everyone else are just trying to keep up to date on the status of SC.
I would be a much bigger fan of SC if I didn’t have to grind for days to experience half of what this tech demo wants to demo me. Are we alpha testers or are we suckers? Also the game ate my money, anyway.
The time restriction will make sense when there is a game to play, not while it’s a tech demo.
There are like 14 people who play the current iteration seriously, everyone else are just trying to keep up to date on the status of SC.
At this point you are just flailing.
If you actually had any clue about SC or had bothered to Google it, you’d know DAU numbers (50,000 average daily players across all regions, in 2022), and you’d never have made such an inane claim.
And no, CIG does not call it a tech demo, they call it an alpha, the 2 of which are not remotely similar.
I’d like to meet those 50000 average daily players, because they sure aren’t on any of the server I play on.
I’m glad you’re having fun. This is not a reasonable response to criticism of your favorite space toy simulator. I have invested money into this, too. I also want it to thrive. I hope you have a lovely day.
I can count the number of times I've been put into an empty server on one hand. The game has a pretty dedicated playerbase.
That said, I completely agree with the notion that time restrictions don't really make sense right now. The game is far too buggy in it's current state to really make the insurance claim times make sense and the developers seem a little out of touch on that. They have actually tried to increase the wait time several times to massive outcry from the community. I really think they would be better served cutting the grind down a little bit while they iron out the game.
I can’t discount that the state of my network is somehow responsible for putting me in near-empty servers (it’s complicated), but your second paragraph is exactly spot on.
Disagree. The intention is for SC to be a space sim sandbox, so I’m surprised they’re only making you wait 10m.
When you take your car into the shop and have to wait a few hours for it to be repaired, you don’t think “the solution they want me to go with is to buy a second car for this moment”, right? But that’s the argument you’re making here. If this is the lens you see all games through, then it’s impossible for anyone to make a game that’s just literally normal life.
Conversely, I could argue that mobile games are built around instant dopamine rushes. Any 10m wait is explicitly accompanied with an option to pay the wait away immediately. Afaik, that’s not an option here, if you’re a new player, you have to wait that 10m no matter what. Correct me if I’m wrong. But that’s not a very good job at capitalizing on the wait time.
What value do timegates add to video games? How does the user experience improve or degrade if the wait is, say five minutes? One minute? None? Is the point of the simulation to wait for everything? What’s the difference between acceleration humans can’t survive and wait times? What’s the line we can’t cross to suspend disbelief?
I personally think it’s all made up so making me twiddle my thumbs for 10m is fucking stupid. If I wanted a waiting simulator I’d play “kickstarting Star Citizen” or a less punishing game like Desert Bus.
Like it or not it does have an effect, which is to raise the stakes. If everything is instant gratification there are less lows, but also less highs. You may prefer games that are less punishing, and that’s fine, most people do. It does have an impact on the experience that creates value for people who like a more punishing experience, though. It doesn’t create that value in the moment you’re waiting, it creates it when you’re debating whether a risk is worth it somewhere else in the game. If there was no punishment for a mistake, there’s no reason to debate the risks, and that removes the high of taking a risk and having it pay off.
Time is the one thing we all suffer through equally.
It doesn’t matter if you’re a whale gamer with 100 ships or a normal person with 1 or 2.
Those 10 minutes pass the same for us all. And it’s that consequence upon death that gives real weight, meaning and purpose to your choices.
It’s what’s meant to keep you from going, “hurr durr guns go brrrr” and shooting everyone you see on sight like a neanderthal.
The only thing I don’t agree with is the current durations given the state of the game.
Often your ship explodes through no fault of your own. They should incrementally increase wait times as the game stabilizes more on my opinion.
But in a game where death is not permanent like real life time is one of the few things that weighs on us all the same.
And yes, ofc owning more ships b/c you’re wealthier than other players does give you an advantage over other players, doesn’t invalidate my point.
If anything that’s making it more realistic, and some day 200 years from now when they implement “Death of a Spaceman” there will be harsher penalties to death that you can’t whale your way out of, forcing you to prize your life and take action accordingly.
It’s not meant to appeal to everyone. Nothing is meant to appeal to everyone.
If you don’t like it, that’s fine, don’t play, no one is forcing you.
If you disagree with the game mechanics, that’s fine, don’t play. No one is forcing you.
If the devs need to do x, y, and z to appease you as an individual or you’re going to quit, that’s fine, don’t play. No one is forcing you.
In spite of your short attention span, these are good questions. The point of a proper simulation isn’t to be fun, and game that wants to be fun is usually not a perfect simulation. A game that wants to be a fun simulation has to find the middle ground. I’ve heard it referred to as “the good suck”: It sucks to have to wait for something in a game to happen, but it contributes to a larger, sometimes desired feeling of immersion. But yeah, there’s always a line where the suck outweighs the fun.
In the case of SC, if the game literally makes you sit and do nothing for 10m, that’s one thing. But my guess is it doesn’t. My guess is you can do other things in the meantime. So it’s basically like any game: you can’t just do anything you want at any time, otherwise it’s not a game, it’s a skinner box.
In the case of SC, if the game literally makes you sit and do nothing for 10m, that’s one thing. But my guess is it doesn’t. My guess is you can do other things in the meantime
What do you mean by ‘guess’? Have you not played it?
Well, if taming dinos in ARK was instantaneous, it would massively change the game, and turn it into nothing but a constant stream of t-rex (or other large predator monster) battles. Those 1-hour countdowns are a time-gate for balance.
If reloading in CS:GO was instantaneous, there would be no tactical decision around when you do it, or danger presented by it happening at an inopportune time. Those 3-second reloads are a time-gate for balance.
There are tons of time-gated mechanics across all sorts of games. You just don’t like this one.
How does the user experience improve or degrade if the wait is [less]?
Well, it means that other players may have to contend with them too-quickly returning to a fight as though nothing happened, which would be pretty crappy if you just got finished killing them. It would mean that if you fly across the solar system in a ship with a very fast Quantum Drive, you could potentially just summon your large, slow ship at your destination, effectively obviating the difference in travel time.
What’s the difference between acceleration humans can’t survive and wait times? What’s the line we can’t cross to suspend disbelief?
It’s not about realism, it’s about game balance. Your ships are something you need to take care of. Dying is and will have major consequences (loss of items, for instance). Do you think that Eve’s manufacturing timers are about realism, or that they are disrespectful to the players? Should a tiny shuttle take the same amount of time to build as a Titan (the largest ship class in the game)?
TTK is obviously substantially longer than an FPS, so instead of the 15 seconds you need for an objective mode there, you need something more substantial for battles to fundamentally work.
This isn’t a good argument, though. You replied to somebody stating the intention with a description of a game that’s in alpha.
Generally, they want everybody to have a good time, but that’s not realistic right now. Star Citizen isn’t being marketed as a fully functional game is being marketed as an alpha where people can see features that are being worked on.
Getting mad about one thing working as intended because something else isn’t right now just sounds like your expectations aren’t aligned with reality.
Yeah but they have a useful instrument panel. The panels in SC are not particularly useful except for combat. There’s 3 separate graphs that display your power usage in the Cutlass, not counting the HUD.
I’m not trying to be snarky, but landing in hangars or on pads in SC requires third person mode. You have no tools to check your clearance except experience. I have no issue landing F-35s in VTOL VR without autopilot assistance, or flying IFR/VFR in MSFS, but in SC I feel like I’m piloting a brick through a tank-commanders vision slits. Even dedicated fighters place the pilot so low in the cockpit that the entire bottom half of the screen is just interior and MFDs. Real fighter pilots can look down at a decent angle, because visual is essential in dogfighting which is the only kind of fighting this game has.
It's objectively a good target for ridicule that the game has raised enough money to make the next Grand Theft Auto off of a strange and exploitative business model, been in development for over a decade, and still has no release date. At the same time, there's more game in that public alpha than a handful of fully released products, so calling it a scam never made sense.
It is not normal, under any circumstances, to take 10+ years to make a game. The rest of the industry is encroaching on it, and it's ridiculous there too. Right now we're looking at a AAA industry that's taking about 5-6 years to make a game, and everyone knows that has to come back down somehow; the ones that go longer than that are Prey (2006), Duke Nukem Forever, Beyond Good & Evil 2, etc. Not a great track record.
the business model was no more “exploitative” than something like Apex or PubG that make literal billions yearly off cosmetics
Those are bad too. In different and sometimes arguably worse ways. But at least you get the product at the point of sale and not an IOU. That, of course, makes Star Citizen an easy target once again.
People have their ego wrapped up in the criticisms about the game, they don’t like the idea that they got duped into hating on something by people who profited off their rage. People need to stop trying to save face; they were wrong about Star Citizen and SQ42.
I saw a trailer for this game with Gary Oldman in it 8 years ago. 8 years. They cast a lot of fan favorite actors that were already, let's say, of an advanced age, and I'm betting one of them dies by the time Squadron 42 comes out. I'm looking forward to playing Squadron 42, but if it takes you 8 years from the time you had something to show for your work for that single player mode to come out (which can and should be smaller in scope than an MMO and have none of the CI/CD restrictions that a live service game has), then you can bet your ass there's something to criticize there. At the very least, project management. And it's totally fair to criticize someone for choosing to make the wrong game (overscoped) when your massive AAA company doesn't exist yet and scaling up to meet that need apparently takes over a decade.
I get that Star Citizen is extremely up your alley, but there's a lot of colorful language in your post about how much of an advancement this is or how it's doing so much more than some other game (pretty difficult to make apples to apples comparisons about number of features in a cowboy game), and let me just summarize that as being very subjective. What we can actually play and get hands on is a game that, after all this time, has some rough technical performance and plenty of bugs, paid in exchange for features that offer only diminishing returns as you expand the circle of the game's audience out further from the people looking for the strictest simulation. Starfield couldn't get 60 FPS on console, even skipping 80% of the minutiae that SC is targeting, and Red Dead Redemption II also took flak and criticism for how the game felt to play for prioritizing a lot of simulation-y things as well. Those games aren't immune to criticism either, and they were able to come from teams who had successfully built acclaimed games in the past, iterating on them.
Also, that "8 years" is in all likelihood including several years of greyboxing, engine work that's reusable for future projects, and other pre-production work with a skeleton crew, while most of the studio was at work on GTAV and its own secondary MMO alongside the single player. Cyberpunk 2077 was announced back in 2012 with a CG trailer, but I distinctly remember a Giant Bomb interview with a CDPR designer in ~2014 ahead of the Witcher 3's launch. Of course most of CDPR wasn't working on Cyberpunk yet. Jeff Gerstmann asked what Cyberpunk was looking like at that time, and the CDPR rep just responded that it was a stack of design documents a foot high off the desk.
If people are aware they are getting an IOU, that’s not exploitive.
It is. For all the reasons that everyone says not to pre-order video games, pre-ordering a ship that you don't even know when you'll really be able to use it is exploitative, and it's priced to cash in on whales. At least it's not a blind box preying on gambling impulses, but I still find it to be gross.
The very least you can do is stop gaslighting. Every step of the way people have been stepping back their criticism, they’ll say this features not coming and then it does and they drop it off their list, they say it’s a scam and now it’s suddenly “Well of course it’s was never a scam, no one would actually think that.”
Don't attribute to me what others have said. Plenty of other people have called this a scam, but right at the top, I said that never made sense to me. Maybe a few weeks ago, I said something right here on the fediverse that someone interpreted to be too positive about Star Citizen, and the next response was to ask me how much I paid into the game. Those people probably haven't changed their minds. I am not them. I think for myself. That is not me gaslighting you. It's me having a different opinion than someone else you spoke to.
You misunderstood what I said by diminishing returns. They're clearly important to you. The further away you get from that level of hardcore enthusiast, the more like you're going to find people who don't find those features to be important compared to a game that runs better and with fewer bugs, let alone how they affect the actual game design. No game is immune from criticism, and people can and will criticize it for all of these things and its business model. If I'm a person who paid $45 because I wanted to play Squadron 42, which at the time I believed was a game releasing in 2016, how do you expect me to not criticize them for taking 7 more years and still not having it done when it's a much smaller scope than the MMO that they're building?
Stop trying to make it out like we’re rubes who got a fast one pulled on us
Once again: I did not say this. You are arguing with me about things other people said. Argue with them.
I don’t think it’s about loving to shit on something, you can only get burned so often with overhyped games, i rather have the game speak for itself when it’s released.
Copied from reddit user u/iamshieldstick on reddit because I hate having to watch an 8m video for a 1m read of info.
Summary
Thank you for making the game surpass 1 million copies sold!
The highest priority for the team is developing the DLC and working on the sequel. Brainstorming and exploring different aspects of the projects.
Planning another patch in November (exact dates are still being discussed).
Expect some balances in the weapon assembly system
Rising dodge will be provided as a default skill, eliminating the need to unlock it from the P-Organ. This is to ease the difficulty in the early stages of the game specifically against the shovel puppet (aka Pancake Bot).
Polendina will sell 2 additional Quartz from the first stage of his shop.
They will give Alidoro costumes to all players as a token of gratitude, including his mask
They will introduce an extra slot for facial accessories, enabling the wearing of hats and glasses at the same time.
They are planning to add new wearables in the game - the Alchemist’s Hat (Venigni Hat) and a brand new pair of glasses!
Aside from these, several other elements are currently in preparation. For a comprehensive overview of the final contents, please refer to the upcoming patch notes
They are grateful to the players for praises and compliments on the music. They are currently in the process of preparing the release of the soundtrack. The collection will have nearly all the music from Lies of P, totaling more than 60 tracks.
They are also working more diligently and investing considerable thought and effort to meet the expectations in the Wo Long Fallen Dynasty crossover and make the collaboration of the highest quality.
Working on DLC - they are hiring new developers to join their team.
Shared some sketches from the DLC. These images are merely the tip of an iceberg. Let your imagination go wild and anticipate what’s to come.
youtu.be
Aktywne