Basically there’s been right wing/terf/anti-furry think tanks lobbying those companies to stop offering services to anyone involved with porn. Their entire ideology is “perverted nerds are causing the downfall of western society”.
Whatever one thinks of this, I think we can all agree that it’s a bit imprecise to be calling these games “adult”. Witcher 3 is “adult”. Furry Hitler Incest Goblin Lolifuckers 3 is… something else.
The author of this article reflexively and illogically defends Steam (like usual):
But at least some of what Kaldaien complains about isn’t necessarily on Steam’s shoulders. It’s well within devs’ powers to provide players with access to older game versions on Steam (KOTOR 2, which I recently replayed, lets you access its pre-Aspyr version via a beta branch, for instance), but many of them elect not to. That strikes me as an issue with individual devs rather than Steam as a whole, and as for Steam Input? Well, again, if there’s a problem there it’s with developers electing to use that API over OS-native ones that’s the issue.
He literally completely misses the modder’s point. Steam itself will not run on the original machine you purchased KOTOR 2 on. You can buy a gaming machine, purchase a game through steam and 6 years later, one random day you’re suddenly no longer able to play your game, simply because Valve has decided that the version of Steam that you bought the game through is no longer ok and now you need to upgrade your hardware and OS to play the same game you’ve been playing for years.
This issue has multiple facets and the answer changes depending on the end result you want.
The author of the article sees the problem as “Old games you bought on steam are unplayable on modern hardware”. Kaldaien sees the problem as “Steam cannot run on older hardware anymore, even if the games I bought still work there”. Both people want the same thing (To be able to play the games they bought) but are looking at it from different angles.
Ultimately, Steam is a DRM tool that has a very good storefront attached to it. If you want true ownership of the software, buy the game in a way that will let you run the software by itself. Valve expects that the overwhelming majority of its users will keep up with semi-modern hardware (In this case, a machine capable of running windows 10/SteamOS) which I don’t feel is is an unreasonable ask. However, expecting Valve to retain support for an OS that hit end of life 20 years ago is unreasonable.
I agree with the opinions of the article’s author. It would be far better to ensure that support for the old titles you bought are available on modern hardware rather than making sure Steam is still accessible on a PC running windows 98. This is one of those corner-cases where piracy is acceptable. You already paid for the game, you just need to jump through some hoops to play it on your 30 year old PC.
Valve expects that the overwhelming majority of its users will keep up with semi-modern hardware (In this case, a machine capable of running windows 10/SteamOS) which I don’t feel is is an unreasonable ask.
Valve is forcing them to upgrade their software and hardware to keep playing games they already purchased, on the hardware they purchased it on.
However, expecting Valve to retain support for an OS that hit end of life 20 years ago is unreasonable.
It is very reasonable. No one forced Valve to build their business model this way, and they are one of the most profitable companies per employee, ever. It would not be onerous for them to continue supporting a couple of old versions of Windows, they would just have to hire a few more people to do it. Gabe would still be a billionaire.
It is very reasonable. No one forced Valve to build their business model this way, and they are one of the most profitable companies per employee, ever.
Literally every software company built their business model this way. Go open a support case with any software vendor complaining that their product won’t run on Windows 98 and see how many help you out beyond “Buy a computer from this millennium”
It would not be onerous for them to continue supporting a couple of old versions of Windows, they would just have to hire a few more people to do it.
You are failing to understand just how much has changed since Windows 98. It’s a completely different environment that requires specialized knowledge to develop for. They can’t just dust off some old source code and re-release the client. The entire back-end has changed. It would be a massive undertaking that would appease about 12 people total.
Gabe would still be a billionaire.
Sure, but I would argue that there are a lot of better things that Valve could be doing with those resources than supporting Windows 98
Literally. People miss the fact that Steam is still a 32-bit app just to support older games. The rest of the world has moved onto 64-bit operating systems and applications. It’s shocking they still support 32-bit in 2025. So the argument that they aren’t supporting older titles is a little misleading because that’s the whole reason they still run a 32-bit client.
Most operating systems are no longer even offered in a 32-bit variant, 64-bit only.
I haven’t had a device with 32-bit hardware in almost 15 years. The last device I can even think of that was still 32-bit within the last 15 years was a Google Nexus 6 in 2014. All the Pixel line have been 64-bit.
Steam is literally one of the last 32-bit holdouts. Everything else has moved on. Even Discord dropped 32-bit support last year.
EDIT: Also, for reference, since Windows 98 is heavily mentioned in the arguments, those operating systems included 16-bit code. We’re talking about dropping 32-bit code, 16-bit code is deader than a doornail. Windows 3.11 was the first introduction of 32-bit code. Windows XP seems to be where they dropped all 16-bit code in 2001. We’re talking over 30 years of hardware changes.
All versions of MS-DOS and the below versions of Windows had 16 bit code:
MS-DOS (all versions)
Windows 1.x/2.x/3.x (all versions)
Windows 4.x or 9x (Windows 95/98/Millennium Edition) (all versions)
They keep a bunch of 32-bit libraries for backwards compatibility with older games that they launch. You can find numerous discussions about this in the Steam forums as well as on sites like Hackernews.
If you want, I can give it to you from a Valve employee:
We will not drop support for the many games that have shipped on Steam with only 32-bit builds, so Steam will continue to deploy a 32-bit execution environment. To that end, it will continue to need some basic 32-bit support from the host distribution (a 32-bit glibc, ELF loader, and OpenGL driver library).
Whether the Steam client graphical interface component itself gets ported to 64-bit is a different question altogether, and is largely irrelevant as the need for the 32-bit execution environment would still be there because of the many 32-bit games to support.
Literally every software company built their business model this way. Go open a support case with any software vendor complaining that their product won’t run on Windows 98 and see how many help you out beyond “Buy a computer from this millennium”
No, they didn’t. I can install the software I bought back in the day on the computers I bought it for, using the license key provided. GoG also famously uses a model where GoG does not care what OS you’re using.
You are failing to understand just how much has changed since Windows 98. It’s a completely different environment that requires specialized knowledge to develop for. They can’t just dust off some old source code and re-release the client. The entire back-end has changed. It would be a massive undertaking that would appease about 12 people total.
Lol, I’m a software developer that started by writing legacy windows software, I know exactly how much (little) has changed.
Sure, but I would argue that there are a lot of better things that Valve could be doing with those resources than supporting Windows 98
I don’t care. They have the resources to support it.
Either strip the DRM out and pay whatever you have to to the publishers to do that, or keep supporting the systems you sold your software for.
The idea that Valve is blameless for shitty behaviour because other tech companies also do that shitty behaviour is nonsense. They have been the dominant platform forever, and have had an insane amount of resources available to them.
The GOG Preservation Program ensures classic games remain playable on modern systems, even after their developers stopped supporting them. By maintaining these iconic titles, GOG helps you protect and relive the memories that shaped you, DRM-free and with dedicated tech support.
The fact that their games are DRM free means that doesn’t matter one iota. If you buy a game from them on a set of hardware you’ll be able to play it on that hardware forever, regardless of whether their desktop client changes.
But if they keep it updated for modern systems that means as time goes on the files they are offering to install… won’t work on old hardware because they’ve been updated to the modern era.
Sure if you grab a file from them and never get a newer, more maintained version, it will play on exactly the hardware and software you had when you bought it… But if you lost the install file somehow and went to grab a new copy five years later the updated ones may no longer run on your old hardware
Sure if you grab a file from them snd never get a newer, more maintained version, it will play on exactly the hardware and software you had when you bought it…
That’s literally the entire point.
Also, they can still offer the olde versions of the file for download.
Lol, I'm a software developer that started by writing legacy windows software, I know exactly how much (little) has changed.
It is this perspective that exposes your bias and colors your perception.
We live in a post-Heartbleed world. We live in a post-UAC world. We constantly find new bugs and vulnerabilities, and they cannot always be patched without massive changes to the architecture. We cannot forever maintain old systems that cultivated bad habits in it's users.
Not all change is good, but all change is inevitable.
No that perspective is what makes me understand that when corporations talk about obsceleting things for security reasons, it’s almost always not actually because of security, because it would be a little less profitable to continue support.
And Valve didnt have to build a business around always checking in DRM if they didn’t want to support old clients, and they have more than enough resources to continue support.
Can I hold you to the decisions you made 20 years ago? I bought that program you built decades ago, that means I'm entitled to your continued support. And don't you even think about getting paid, your support should be free. You shouldn't have built and sold the software if you can't support it...
Yes, they can have their software continue to support Windows by simply not breaking the version that works for windows, without having to provide full customer support and service for it.
Literally any game sold that didn’t include always checking in DRM through a particular desktop client. i.e. virtually every single PC game not sold through steam.
Lots. Do you know how much corporate software is still of that vintage?
Literally like half of AutoCAD’s products still use the graphics and windowing APIs from that era as one example. The WinForms API are clunky by modern standards but also relatively trivial for a programmer to pick up and code with.
I mean, there is still an industry of Cobol engineers maintaining mainframe code for banks from the 80s.
No. The question at hand is whether you expect any company, or any person, to indefinitely fix and maintain legacy systems. And yes, your argument is indefinite support because you want the purchasing machine to be granted use of the software in perpetuity, you want it to never lose access to the software. You provided no deadline by which anyone is allowed to stop fixing things that broke. And yes, things break naturally as a function of time.
And yes, things break naturally as a function of time.
Why don’t you go ahead and explain the exact mechanism that causes software to change and would cause a computer to interpret it differently over time, without a human intervening and updating it to break it.
I am aware that some corporate infrastructure is hopelessly tangled up in legacy systems. But we are talking about consumer support here, which I know you know is very different.
This seems like the wisest option for the long term. I just recently decided that any games that are available on both and don’t make use of Steam-exclusive features I will buy from GOG instead. Up until that point I had been buying games on Steam by default when they had sales, but GOG has equivalent sales at the same time. Unless the game takes advantage of some Steam-exclusive feature, there seems to be no good reason to buy it from Steam instead of from GOG.
I like Steam, but they are catering to a certain audience that doesn't care as much about game preservation. Now that GoG is doing the opposite... it is the optimal place to buy those old games you want to keep forever. Seems simple to me. It's healthy to have two different markets anyway.
I agree with you, but I started thinking about this not even from a game preservation perspective but from a DRM perspective. This article was a timely reminder that if I buy any media with DRM, no matter how purportedly lenient and user-friendly it is, the DRM controls when and where I’m allowed to use that media in perpetuity unless I break the DRM, which I understand is illegal in some jurisdictions. Imagine having to jump through hoops or even break the law just to keep using the media that you “bought” with your hard-earned cash.
I do the exact same, but I also buy multiplayer and VR games on Steam, because I run Linux, and GOG Galaxy isn’t out on Linux (yet). I really don’t want to faff about getting all of that working on each individual game. I bought Rain World and FTL on GOG, but Star Wars: Battlefront 2 on Steam.
I didn’t really point much out. I only know that multiplayer games use either Steam or GOG Galaxy to log in and that there aren’t many more OpenXR runtimes besides SteamVR on Linux (I know of WiVRn, but I had an Nvidia GPU and couldn’t figure out how to compile the Vulkan extensions required). I find it tedious to manually set up save file synchronization for my GOG games, so I really can’t be arsed to go so far when Steam just does it all for me.
Thanks again. I’m not doing VR yet, but plan to eventually. I can totally see where multiplayer could be an issue too, especially if friends own the games on Steam instead.
In my opinion, that’s not on Steam to support their client on a long past EOL operating system. Not withstanding the added development workload and costs, there is also significantly more risk associated with supporting an OS that isn’t receiving security patches.
Not to mention the modder’s example Windows fucking 98. Steam still supports Windows 7, which was released in 2009. Your 6 year old PC will be fine.
In my opinion, that’s not on Steam to support their client on a long past EOL operating system.
It is on them since they “sold” you a game. They didn’t have to build a business model that popularized always checking in DRM, that meant that they were deceiving you when they sold you a game, but it was more profitable for them to do so.
I’m not sure valve deceived you. It’s not fair that we can’t run purchased old games on the OS they were built for. they could really show instructions on how to make them run on that OS, maybe even make a simple but official lightweight client that can download it for you, on that old OS.
but if you are on windows 10, what can they do with a game they sold you that won’t work correctly on anything beyond XP?
yes, the above things they could, and should. but even today you are not locked out: copy the game files to USB, drop in the goldberg emu, and play the game on your XP machine. It’s a single file, not eben needs internet.
if the game had DRM? I am not sure that’s the fault of valve. didn’t the devs put it there?
and if you accept the “solution” to drop steam, and start renting your games? you won’t be able to do even this (edit: because they have real drm, not measly steamdrm that’s easily stripped out). you are literally locked out both if you stop paying, and if the service stops making that game available because their license expired, politics, or whatever. and you literally can do nothing about that.
I’ve been running steam on an unsupported OS (osx 10.13.6) for almost a year and a half now, and the only issue is a banner at the stop claiming that steam will stop working in 0 days.
I don’t remember what if anything I did to make this happen, but I’ve had no trouble buying, downloading, or playing games in that time.
I don’t think this changes anything for movies unless there’s somewhere you can “buy” a copy of a movie but they don’t let you download an offline copy. If they “rent” you the movie or you “subscribe” to a streaming service, none of this applies.
One of the biggest controversies at the start of all of this was Ubisoft pulling The Crew whilst pushing people to buy The Crew 2. Frankly it’s amazing we haven’t seen that more often with the near identical sequels such as the Madden, FIFA, F1 etc games.
No one’s forcing you to buy a remaster… unless they are because they revoke your right to play the original so it’s your only option.
Remasters and remakes will still happen but companies won’t have as much freedom to yoink a purchased product from your pocket years down the track in the name of some profit strategy.
But I want to resell it to the same person for further profit
One of the biggest controversies at the start of all of this was Ubisoft pulling The Crew whilst pushing people to buy The Crew 2.
I know about The Crew, but it’s not like Ubisoft had a Special Edition or something lined up that replaced the original game, and you had to buy it again. There was no reselling, the sequel is a different game.
Nothing in the SKG initiative is against Sequels, Remasters, Remakes, whatever. It’s not even about keeping a game in stores forever. It isn’t against yearly releases of Fifa, Madden, NBA 2k, that get removed after a few years, as long as you can still play your copy of Fifa 26 in twenty years.
No one’s forcing you to buy a remaster… unless they are because they revoke your right to play the original so it’s your only option.
That’s the thing though, does this really happen? Usually games that get completely removed, that you can’t even play anymore are multiplayer games, live service stuff, that are just so dead that nobody is even remotely interested in a remaster, so the game is just gone.
People could still play the Overwatch that they paid for if the game hadn’t been designed to require Blizzard’s continued support and approval to function. In some number of years, Fortnite will be shutdown or replaced with something different and the people who grew up playing Fortnite will never be able to go back to play it again.
There’s clearly interest in online-only games that are killed. World of Warcraft and Runescape have classic versions so you can play a variation of the game how it used to be.
True, didn’t think about games like this, but that’s the case for every online-only game, even if the changes might not be as drastic as OW1 -> OW2. It’s not like you can roll back a patch in FF14, Siege or Destiny and play on that version, if you don’t like the direction the game is going.
I don’t think a part of SKG is making sure all different patch versions of a game are available and playable, once the devs end support for a game.
BTW I’m not against SKG, I’ve signed the petition, but when people say this would keep companies from selling the game forever, kill yearly installments of some franchise, or would “force” devs to make old version of their favorite game available, that’s not what SKG wants to do.
It was Nicolae Ștefănuță from the Greens–European Free Alliance which was always going to be one of the political groups more likely to support this initiative.
We need to convince MEPs in the PES and EPP to really get a directive approved.
Please be sure to sign it if you are from the EU. We might need 1.4 million signatures, since some people signed from outside the EU. And those will not count.
Honestly I liked a lot Subnautica 1, and despite the leadership change, still look forward to Subnautica 2. Better juge on the product than on internet dramas.
Sometimes people have ideas that just don’t work out. Even if the same people make another game, unless they just make a carbon copy they’re going to try and do something different. Sometimes it doesn’t work as well as the original, but at least it’s not churning out the same thing over and over and hoping people don’t notice.
Granted, Gamefreak has basically been doing that for 25 years, so what do I know?
I heard it had a lot of issues during testing but I didn’t personally have any issues with it having played it the first time 4 years ago nor have I heard of any widespread game breaking bugs. Might just be your particular system :o
Draw distance sucks for a vast ocean of plants and sealife. Seriously, I have a really good video card, and this fucking Unity engine can’t draw 500 feet in front of me.
So many wall “suggestions”, clipping, other graphical glitches, especially near the end area
Incredible music, but it’s barely heard because the game either cuts it off midway through or decides to go silent most of the time
Bad save serializations that can sometimes spam a ton of error messages on load
You can’t kill anything, including warpers that are more dangerous than leviathans
Can’t walk with a Prawn in an alien base, because you end up getting stuck on the floor for some reason
Reaper in caves, who can drop you off the map
An insulting unrealistic O2 meter, and not enough keyslots
The Cyclops is. Fucking. Useless. By the time you get this thing, the leeches in volcano areas fuck you over, when power is already a precious resource. And it still needs full upgrades to make it even remotely useful in Lost River.
Torpedos are useless. Flares, Floating lockers, air pipeworks, nuclear reactor, alien containment, all useless.
Death might as well be like hardcore, since losing a vehicle is worse than losing 30 minutes of progress
I also find it unbelievable that the other player never experienced bugs, because I also had a lot of them during my play through.
But your list is a complete mess with a mixture of bugs and design decisions. And the latter aren’t bugs. That’s just not how it works. It would make your argument stronger, if you stay with the facts and not include your personal disagreements with game features.
Half of those aren’t even bugs. They’re intendes gameplay elements and they are what makes Subnautica such a good game! No being able to easily kill most creature is what makes the game better. Torpedos being borderline useless is what makes the game better. The extremely limited O2 meter makes the game better!
The cyclops is amazing. You’re just very obviously use it wrong. It’s not meant to explore the volcanic region. It’s meant as a mobile base and it absolutely excells at this!
Honestly, the draw distance optimization may be the only valid concern here.
Draw distance sucks for a vast ocean of plants and sealife. Seriously, I have a really good video card, and this fucking Unity engine can’t draw 500 feet in front of me.
IIRC, they did not really know what the first game was about while developing it. I remember reading a dev blog about them adding a bug report in game with screenshot attached, and how that helped them understand players expectations and direct the development of the game towards that instead of having a pre-defined vision of the final game.
Yeah, this is the right approach, especially with the subnautica community that seems to be really thirsty for drama. I was going to wait for reviews anyway before getting it, so this whole “devs beg community” is probably for the preordering folk.
That said, my money’s on “subnautica 2 will disappoint regardless” because it continues to build on the original instead of being new. What made the original so good was the novelty of that format, combined with the horror aspect and the fresh lore. Now, after two games set in the same world and the same general flow, people know what to expect so they will be extra picky about s2 and I wager they will end up underwhelmed. I’m still hoping s2 will at least be extra pretty because goddamn if I didn’t love the environments of the first two games.
Does the same logic apply to shoes hand-sewn by sick children?
How the fuck did capitalism manage to make people care more for inanimate objects or software than actual human beings.
You are trying to portray a black and white picture about a situation we all know little about. It’s word for word, and in such case it be hard to give more credits to either party.
I heard that there is a lawsuit brewing, maybe this will give us more objective informations.
In the meantime, the only way to see if either the founders or Krafton vision would be the best would be to release the EA, even with the lack of content Krafton is complaining about. Like that we would be able to make our own conclusion.
I would not ignore if Krafton do betray UW employees. But I also take into account that for now it is word for word, and depending on which side you believe, both sides can be sided with.
If the three ousted exec did abandon their responsibility as Krafton said, their dismissal is justified. If not and that’s a way to not pay the promissed bonus, then a boycot is justified.
There isn’t many way to know, other than releasing the EA now. Like that the customer can have and idea of the true state of the game, without having to base its opinion on a bandwagon.
I agree. But you said “Better juge on the product than on internet dramas.” and I dont see how the game would tell us anything about how Krafton fucks the developers.
Krafton says that the game isn’t yet worthy of EA. Ousted led dev says that it is. Someone is probably lying here. Only way to put an end to that is to lanch the EA this year, for us to juge if it is enough content or not.
From what I’ve read, that bonus isn’t tied to a specific release, but to an earning target.
Not being able to get to that target is tied to the fact that Subnautica 2 EA should have been a huge cash influx, which now isn’t possible due to the delay, and the only remaining way would have been either a sudden renewed Subnautica 1 and BZ success or for the mobile version to be a incredible success, which I doubt.
Releasing the EA wouldn’t be an “I win button” from UW. It could go both way. Either the current state is enough for user to buy it, and not refund it, or it will be a resounding failure, with huge refund percentages. In the first case, this may allow UW to get to that target, but in the second case, it may in the worst case make the studio go under before Subnautica had any chance to be released completed
I hope they can make it work, but honestly I don't see how. The two games share very little similarities outside of being blocky survival games, and even then the focus on their respective genres are completely different. With VS being a gritty realistic survival game with very few fantasy elements at all, and Hytale being a fantasy RPG with some survival elements.
It'd be like Project Zomboid coming out and saying they're going to work on a fantasy gamemode where instead of zombies and guns, you have goblins and dragons and magic and shit. Sure, why not, but at this point you have to change so much about your game's identity that you're going to end up making a completely different game inside of your game rather than just a separate gamemode.
The auction also includes the stapled Switch 2 console and box, the staple that did the damage, and a pair of the GameStop CEO’s underwear, which I will explain within.
Whatever you are willing to pay, since they are most likely looking for a new job. They have experience in damage stacking and liability research. And stapling.
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