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all-knight-party, do games w The Weekly Discussion Topic - Emergent Gameplay - 18-08-2023
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

Emergent gameplay is a big part of what makes video games unique as a medium. I'd say a good example I've played recently is Death Stranding. One of my favorite games of all time at this point, it really is best and worst described as a walking simulator. Or moreso, a delivery simulator. At its core, you'll take on missions involving the delivery of different amounts and sizes/weights of packages to destinations near and far. Sometimes there are invisible ghosts that want to kill you, sometimes there's visible, inanimate landscape that wants to kill you.

What takes it from 'walking simulator' to 'walking simulator' is the fact that the walking is complex. The smoothness or roughness of terrain can directly influence the stability of your character. Even small rocks can be marginally trickier to traverse than truly flat ground. You may find pavement, dirt, rocky terrain, snow, or deep rivers, which require considerations. You can brace yourself for stability to help, and your movement speed, momentum when changing direction, and whether you're standing or crouching all affect your likelihood to slip or trip. Many items help you to move off the beaten path and find shorter routes, with ladders or climbing rope & anchors allowing the scaling or descent of steep cliffs.

Through experimentation, sliding helplessly down a mountain, and having all your important shit get washed away in a river as you scramble around like an infant, you come to understand your mobility and limitations. Enter: the packages and your hubris. You can accept multiple missions at a time. Some missions require few or relatively light packages. Some ask you to move an amount of goods that ought to be palletized. Through understanding your limitations, and attempting to slap different amounts of cargo on your person, you can possess Icarus and fly as close to the sun as you want.

But, there's more than just your person. You can use floating sci fi wheelbarrows that trail behind you, carrying a large amount of goods, but restricting your ability to use climbing ropes or ladders. You could use a motorcycle, allowing for speedy traversal and some light offroading with small storage on "saddlebags", or even a huge ass truck which affords incredible storage potential, at the cost of a squirrelly and incline averse driving model.

And I haven't even really gotten into all of the equipment or strategies required to handle the "ghosts", whose unique abilities and behavior provide an interesting additional challenge where being caught by one could easily mean the loss of your cargo, or even your life. Even in the big ass truck, you aren't truly safe. The intermittent and locational time-accelerating rainfall means even cargo you haven't dropped or bumped can have its durability rusted away given some time.

Though the game, of course, has a story, it sits alongside a story of the player's experience, limited only by the bravery and recklessness with which you, essentially, don't want to make three trips to the car to bring groceries in, so you load up yourself and two linked floating carriers to carry nearly 1,000 kilograms of cargo, and make a winding, manually waypointed journey through the desolate and oppressive landscape, stopping to deliver parts of your massive load as you come to each post-apocalyptic shelter in your list of deliveries.

Your successes and failures within are unique to the way you chose to plan and execute your trips. Shit, man, I like this game.

cizra, do games w The Weekly Discussion Topic - Emergent Gameplay - 18-08-2023

Dwarf Fortress and Cataclysm: DDA generate some crazy plotlines, full of narrative, twists, and character development. How come no writer has converted a character’s story into a novel, yet?

Grangle1, do games w The Weekly Discussion Topic - Emergent Gameplay - 18-08-2023

The Zelda timeline is an interesting example of emergent narrative, at least until recently. Before the Hyrule Historia, fans could see underlying clues of a general history of Hyrule and an order in which the games take place, but developers themselves wouldn’t confirm the existence of a definitive timeline. Even so, the fans speculated endlessly about where the games fit in - were all games canon or only some, was there a split or a unified timeline, and were these the same Link, Zelda and Ganondorf or were they continually reincarnated? Finally the Hyrule Historia gave a confirmed canon timeline with not one but two splits, all games canon, and with confirmation of several reincarnations of at least Link and Zelda. Considering how resistant to doing something like this Nintendo and the Zelda team were at first, I’d pretty well guarantee that the release was in response to the emergent narrative that developed and not something they had initially planned from the outset of the series, especially not before Ocarina of Time.

theAndrewJeff, (edited ) do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

Here’s my thing: I don’t necessarily care what sort of game you make, I just want it to be feature-complete and technically solid (I.e. mostly bug-free). Whether that’s a small indie game or a massive AAA game, those two things should be true.

I think what most people find frustrating is that the in-game store is the most well developed part of most AAA releases nowadays, which often ship riddled with bugs.

marmo7ade,

I just want it to be feature-complete and technically solid

So, Diablo 4.

I wanted to get BG3, but the constant deep throating by neckbeards is making me gag. Now I don’t want it for the same reason bigots won’t play TLOU2: politics.

I’m sure BG3 is fantastic. It’s also not a reason for people to tell me why I shouldn’t enjoy the games I do.

theAndrewJeff,

…what?

Streptember,

Ah, the contrarian.

If you let other people ruin something for you, that's on you, not them. Especially if they "ruin" it by celebrating and enjoying it.

histy,

deleted_by_author

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  • RedAggroBest,

    He opened with praising Diablo 4, feels low effort and should net a penalty, with a bad finish too. I’ll go with 4/10.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    If he’s an actual shill from ActiBlizz I would vote a lot lower than 4/10, for having done such a poor job, based on that ratio.

    CoolBeance,

    Needs a bigger bait. If he opened with slamming Baldur’s Gate 3 right away or “as a gamer” it might have been a 7

    Ilandar,

    BALDUR’S GATE 3 IS WOKE TRASH

    Misconduct, (edited )

    I dunno the part where they try to make themselves out to be some kind of hero over racism randomly because they didn’t play a game has gotta decrease the score by at least a couple. Just feels like they’re trying too hard I dunno. Feels basic

    Cethin, (edited )

    “I won’t try this game because it’s too highly reviewed!” What a weird hill to die on.

    D4 seemed to have been great at launch, but the seasons and battle pass stuff ruin it for me (though you can like it if you want, I don’t care). I don’t like the idea of a game being on a timer and asking me to play the way they want me to play it. This is what BG3 does right. It’s a game with many options and many ways to play. It never tells you how you should and you also don’t need to pay extra for other crap. You get a complete experience from start to finish with no timers and nothing extra asked of you.

    SpicaNucifera,

    This is why I dropped Destiny, despite loving it to pieces.

    CertifiedBlackGuy,

    I liked D2 in the beginning until I realized it was CoD’s multi-player put into its single player.

    Maybe part of the issue is I left and came back, but I couldn’t make sense of any sort of storytelling and “go here, shoot this” stopped being fun.

    Which sucks because Destiny has some amazing worldbuilding ideas.

    Still salted that they removed my boi Xol

    MindSkipperBro12,

    Jesse, what the hell are you talking about?

    Mdotaut801,

    I’m a huge diablo fan. D4 fucking stinks and I went back to d2 res and picked up POE. Poe is 10/10 and exactly what I need to scratch this rng itch.

    littlecolt,

    Huh? The game literally lets you play any way you want.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    I feel you on the deepthroating shit. It’s a great game, no doubt about it. But some of these articles act like it’s the second coming of Christ, and if I am to be entirely honest… It’s not quite as good as the original games. It’s lacking a lot of depth in the story telling (it’s almost entirely voiced so there’s more brevity in any given conversation than the pages upon pages of text even a random nobody can give you in BG2), but makes up for it with mechanical depth.

    I agree it’s a big deal for a major release to not have MTX or a season pass or other bullshit, and that should definitely be applauded. But some of the things I’ve seen said about the game are out right fraudulent. Like an article the other day saying it is the most polished AAA game in over a decade, which is absurd. The game is plagued with issues and the polish is literally the one thing I can not give it praises for. It even feels amateur in a lot of ways. Like it has many little issues I would not expect from a seasoned developer, and many bugs ranging from minor inconveniences to full blown game breaking stuff like scripts firing wrong leading to an outcome you didn’t choose to take or characters becoming comoletely broken being unable to move or be interacted with.

    Story is great. It actually feels like a remix of the first Baldur’s Gate story. Characters are some of the best I’ve seen in a long time. The combat is super fun, especially when you try to do weird random shit just to see if it works; cuz 90% of the time it does. There is a depth to the changes you can have on the world at large that are extremely cool and haven’t been done on such a scale before in all the RPGs I’ve played over the years…

    Although that last part is where the previous talk about bugs really starts to drag the experience down. There have been so many points in my two playthroughs of the game where I took one path, but got the dialogue and changes to the world of another path. Like currently, my party keeps talking about one of the companions killing another. But they didn’t; I stopped that from happening. So now this character is standing around in the background while other characters talk about her death. And that’s not even the worst one I’ve encountered.

    Cethin,

    I think it’s funny talking about the second coming. It really is the second coming if anyone follows it. The thing is, it’s not extraordinary in the grand scheme of gaming. It’s just not something we’ve had in a long time on a large scale. It pretty much follows the norm for 2000s/90s games, but that’s why it’s an outlier. We don’t get those anymore. Bioware used to make games like it, but they don’t now and they’ll tell you it’s not going to happen again despite technology being better.

    I understand that publishers will force them to do certain things, but most AAA studios have the capability of making games that follow the same standard (but maybe not scale) of BG3 if it weren’t for publishers. They shouldn’t copy it, but they should internalize that players want complete experiences in the box, and they want to be treated like adults who can think for themselves.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Like it has many little issues I would not expect from a seasoned developer

    You wouldn’t expect little bugs from a newly released AAA game? Really?

    It sounds like you were expecting 0% bugs.

    Kolanaki, (edited )
    !deleted6508 avatar

    Not all the issues are bugs. There are issues in the actual design of some systems that are amateur at best (such as the UI). Even most indie developers wouldn’t have these issues, so seeing them in a AAA game that was in early access as long as this one has is totally unacceptable.

    Misconduct,

    That sounds like your subjective opinion on how you’d make it and not like an objective fact to me

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Not all the issues are bugs.

    As a software developer of over 30 years, I’m aware of that.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Even most indie developers wouldn’t have these issues

    Got to be honest, I don’t think your perspective is very accurate on the subject.

    BrudderAaron,
    @BrudderAaron@lemmy.world avatar

    You know, you’ll go through life a lot happier if you stop restricting yourself from experiencing something just because it’s a popular thing.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    BG3 has still been riddled with bugs for me and since it doesn’t have MTX or a store or anything, it feels kinda worse. At least I know why the crap riddled with MTX is rife with issues; what is BG3’s excuse?

    I probably wouldn’t mind the bugs so much if the whole game was shit. But the game is fucking awesome. I just want to play it without being frustrated by technical issues. 😩

    I’m hoping that by the time the PS5 version launches, it’ll be much smoother.

    LouNeko,

    I actually agree with you. People praise BG3 as if it were the most perfect 10/10 video game in existence. Its far from it. It is riddled with bugs reaching from minor to game breaking. The best example is the very first few seconds of the game. The first thing the players are likely to interact with is the tadpole pool after awekening on the ship.

    Minor spoilerIt explodes, knocking you back and causing damage.

    As someone who made a few characters and played the intro section a lot, the animation is often times bugged and confusing. And thats the first interaction a player has with the game.
    A few seconds later you stand in front of a door. Usually the door opens and you can go through. But sometimes the opening animation doesn’t play. This happened on my very first time playing and I couldn’t figure out where to go, because my first instinct wasn’t to clip through the closed door. Things like this are absolutely unacceptable in the tutorial area.

    Even though they already have full controller support it is very clear why the console release is delayed. The console player base is expected to be a lot more casual and unless they iron out all the confusing bugs they run the risk of people being frustrated and dropping the game.

    And then there are other major things.

    • Why is there no native option for 3rd person WASD movement even though it is fully implemented for controllers?
    • Why does only the controller get a search area function but the keyboard doesn’t?
    • Why is there no camera sensitivity for controllers?
    • Why are there no deadzone settings for controller joysticks?
    • Why is there a 1 second delay on movement when using a controller?
    • Why can’t I set the text size below 64px when using a controller?
    • Why in a game that has been in early access for so long and a world full of magic can’t we change our characters appearance post creation? (I know it’s announced but why just now?)
    • Why do we not have advanced difficulty settings? (I’d love the enemies to be smart like “tactitian” but not be unhittable bullet sponges.)
    • Why is every adult character so goddamn hot in this game? I need my blood in my brain.
    • Why can we select a player voice, if the player isn’t voiced beyond some minor quips?
    • Why isn’t there a random name generator for your character?
    • Why can’t I shift + click multiple items or containers to queue them up for pickup or search?
    • Why do container windows open on top of each other or other inventory windows?
    • Why can’t I rename containers in my inventory?
    • Why can’t I filter out or hide wares in my inventory?
    • Why can’t I sort or filter items during trading or in the party view?
    • Why do containers always open in a 5x2 grid instead of trying to fit all the items without scrolling?
    • Why can I skip the rolling animation but not the success-continue animation?
    • etc.

    I know I’m nitpicking here, but for a game that is as highly praised as this, I expect it also to nail all those minor things that other games have already figured out already (some of which were even their own older titles). Especially because it was Early Access and they had a lot of user feedback. I see it times and times again that studios apparently throw out all their previous knowledge of videogames and seemingly start from scratch on every title, making small stupid mistakes that could have been easily avoided. It’s like the research process for video mechanics and UI never consists of actually looking at other games.

    So for me, it’s a very pretty game, its a beautifully sounding game and even a very fun game. But nowhere near a 10/10. It’s a 7/10 game. Fix the bugs to bump it up to 8/10 implement some QoL for 9/10 and release modding tools so the community can make it a 10/10.

    Kolanaki, (edited )
    !deleted6508 avatar

    Why is everyone so damn hot?

    I can’t say for anyone else, but Karlach is hot because of that infernal engine she has for a heart. :P

    Why can’t I sort or filter items during trading or in the party view?

    You can on a controller. Press in the left stick. The fact the UI between a controller and the M&KB is so completely different and you get dumb differences like this is another amateur hour move. I’ve played entirely on controller, but from talking to other people and seeing my sister play on her laptop, the M&KB interface is garbage and offers for fewer options far some damn reason.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    I know I’m nitpicking here, but for a game that is as highly praised as this, I expect it also to nail all those minor things that other games have already figured out already

    You realize that smaller companies have to do triage and prioritize what they’re working on, yes? Take bugs/enhancements in a certain order? And usually the major things get taken care of first before the minor things are.

    Also, some of the things you ask for, they may just not agree with you as being needed in the game.

    Have you submitted that list to them for their consideration, directly (Github, etc.)?

    Edit: typo

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Stupid question, but have you been letting Steam do game updates?

    Unless you’ve changed the default settings, you have to let Steam do updates while not playing any games through Steam. By default it won’t do any updates in the background.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    Yes, everything updates automatically. I’ve gotten all the updates so far. Only a few of the changes made in any of them actually affected me. Most of the things I’ve experienced have yet to be addressed.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Most of the things I’ve experienced have yet to be addressed.

    I was going to reply humorously with a comment along the lines of you should be moving from a technical to a spiritual solution, an exorcism perhaps, but I don’t want to kick somebody when they’re down, for the sake of comedy.

    CosmicCleric, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Remember fellow gamers, you hold the power of the purse, you get the final vote with your wallet.

    If some studio head or developer manager tries to tell you that you have to accept micro transactions and such, just say no thank you, and move on.

    There are plenty of other games from other good studios out there for you to give your hard-earned money to.

    icepuncher69, (edited )

    Dont say no thank you, give them the middle finger and tell everyone to not buy it

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    Dont say no thank you, give them the middle finger

    You could also do both, for that slightly comedic type of reply. Keep them guessing.

    lysozyme, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 17-08-2023

    I recently discovered Graveyard Keeper. I’m ashamed that I put already a multitude of hours into it while I just bought it beginning of this week. It’s like Stardew Valley but with a grim sense of humor. They even copied the fishing mechanics from SDV

    Bassman1805,

    It’s a fun one. Not nearly as open-ended as SDV, but it has more of an actual story to tell so that’s okay.

    I recommend the DLC, they flesh out the story a lot.

    TowardsTheFuture, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

    Complaining about it having funding… AAA… lol. Thats the fucking point of AAA. Big fucking budget.

    zikk_transport2,
    • A - Big
    • A - Fucking
    • A - Budget
    TowardsTheFuture,

    I read this in stereotyped Italian fuckin Mario voice.

    AAA stands for “Abig Afuckin’ Abuget”

    frezik, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

    Would it be so bad if games didn’t have insane budgets? Most of my favorite games from the past decade are from small studios operating on pizza and hope.

    zaphod,

    Lower budgets would probably be better. High budgets mean high risk, developers and publishers try to minimize that risk and you get bland games that try to cater to too many tastes. Movies suffer from the same problem. They get budgets in the hundreds of millions and you wonder what they spent it all for.

    redtea,

    I can’t remember who it was. A famous actor, anyway. They were talking about what’s happened with movies. There’s nothing in the middle.

    It’s either $100m+ or less than $3m. Either it gets a big producer and they pump so much money into it that it must be safe because it can’t lose money. Or is a small producer doing it for the love, but a small budget doesn’t go very far. The risky narratives done well would be funded somewhere between the two extremes but it’s just not how it’s done anymore.

    In a strange way, to get more money in for the riskier productions, we need to get the money out of Hollywood. Can’t see it happening, myself.

    WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

    You can’t? We just had a summer filled with high-budget flops, and now both the actors and the writers are on strike meaning that the studios won’t be able to recoup their losses any time soon. Add the reduced to non-existent theatre turnout in the first couple of years of the decade due to COVID and there’s been a hell of a lot of money “getting out of Hollywood.”

    redtea,

    I disagree that a flop means lost revenue. This is an industry that’s so adept at hiding income to avoid paying taxes, actors, and every other studio worker that dodgy accounting is known as ‘Hollywood Accounting’. Maybe we’re talking about different things. When I say Hollywood, I mean the movie industry as a whole.

    Hollywood has failed to capture some income streams. From theatres, for example, as you say. But there’s still too much money to be made (and too much propaganda potential) for enough big money to leave that the problems of monopoly finance capital go away.

    FangedWyvern42,
    @FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world avatar

    High budgets are killing the film industry. In the case of gaming, it plays a factor, but greed is probably the main issue. Most big budget AAA games in the past made large amounts of money even if they didn’t have universal appeal. Because companies realised that they could make large amounts of money off loot boxes, microtransactions, cash shops and battle passes, they started trying to funnel players into games, mainly so that players would buy things. That’s one of the main reasons the AAA industry is getting worse: games need to appeal to as many as possible, while coming out as fast as possible, all so that players will buy the overpriced in-game items endlessly shoved in players’ faces.

    AEsheron,

    I love me some good AAA games and want them to stick around. But I think it would be much better if they were a bit fewer and further between, and the big studios shift to more regular AA games, and give their devs chances to do some more oddball stuff with even lower budgets. More expiremntation and risky projects can only enrich the industry.

    ShaggySnacks,

    You never know what those experiments can lead too. There will be a lot of failures however someone is going to look at the failure and realize what needs to be need to be tweaked.

    redtea,

    Good point. And it’s a lot easier to accept ‘failure’ (there could still be something learned in a game that doesn’t quite hit the mark) if the budget isn’t astronomical.

    There are games like FFXV that get quite creative on a big budget. (Not sure if it’s AAA.) I enjoyed that game but some of the novel features bugged me a little bit and they skimped on some important features, I thought. Maybe there’s a better formula for trialling novelty than an all or nothing approach.

    ProffessionalAmateur,

    Yep. The final fantsay series was a bunch of lads in an attic. Now those lads are legends… with a fantasic legacy. Yet I’m still waiting for ES5 and GTA 6…

    Cethin,

    BG3 did have a pretty huge budget though. I would totally be fine if games took notes from BG3 but reduced scope a lot. Bioware used to make games similar to BG, but they stopped and now make garbage. The idea other studios can’t make similar games is wrong. They can’t make games this big usually though without publishers telling them they need to include microtransactions and other bullshit.

    avapa,

    BioWare didn’t just make games similar to Baldur’s Gate, they created Baldur’s Gate.

    NoMoreCocaine,

    Wasn’t that Black Isle? Or had they already evolved into their future downfall? It’s been a hot minute since I’ve last looked at BG credits.

    Rakonat,

    Black Isle was the publisher, Bioware developed the game. Baldurs Gate lead to BG2, which lead to Neverwinter Nights, which lead to Knights of the Old Republic.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    which lead to Knights of the Old Republic

    Which lead to Mass Effect, don’t forget

    the_post_of_tom_joad,

    TIL Baldurs gate is the reason i hated the ending to ME3.

    Rakonat, (edited )

    Kind of! Though if we are being entirely honest, the real thing to blame is the head writer being replaced and the dev time cut by almost a year.

    Personally would have enjoyed it more if they went with the Biotics/Dark Energy that Drew Karpyshyn had put down groundwork for, rather than the AI subplot that Mac Walters hastily slapped together for ME3 that directly contradicted ME1 threads and subplots.

    Rakonat,

    True, but IMO the link wasn’t nearly as strong between KotoR and ME as any of the previous games in the link which were all clearly D&D based systems. ME1 had a lot in common with KotoR but there were some major deviations too as they moved away from the table top standard.

    Cethin,

    Yep, you’re right. I didn’t realize they were a studio at that point. Yeah, they have no reason to complain about new expectations. They could have created BG3 if they had kept doing what they were known for, but EA and the money were too good…

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    from small studios operating on pizza and hope.

    And that’s how it started.

    Anonymousllama, (edited )

    You could give studios unlimited budgets and they’d still complain they don’t have enough time / money to get things right. The rhetoric is that “games are just so complex nowadays” and that justifies their 4/5/6 year development periods.

    I’m not seeing the complexity that warrants that type of long development period. The visual fidelity on some games is impressive, but is it actually worth that 5 year dev time?

    BennyInc, do games w Finally got around to installing Hall effect JoyCons in my handhelds

    Do they also have the „click“ on the up position? Amazon reviews are full of horror stories, and I hope that would get fixed.

    BennyInc,

    Also, do they still support Amiibos?

    chuckleslord, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

    I have no problem if games reached this via a similar model that Larian used here (lots of experienced staff, pre-built systems, 6 years of development, 3 years of expertly done early-access with a highly engaged player base) but they’re not going to. They’re going to implement more crunch, more abuse, more destruction of the few people who want to work in games in order to get there. And that’s where I have the issue.

    I want shorter games, with worse graphics, made by people who get paid more to do less. Because that’s what’s needed to make truly great games. People who are passionate, not burning themselves out just to barely make deadlines, make great games.

    sadreality,

    Sir... Socialism is already ruining this nation.and you are daring to propose communism?!

    chuckleslord,

    Sorry, I’m neurodivergent. Can’t tell if this is sarcasm.

    JowlesMcGee,
    @JowlesMcGee@kbin.social avatar

    Not the person who said it, but yes, it's sarcasm

    Noblesavage,

    I’m not the person you’re responding to, but the post looks sarcastic to me. Have a good day!

    2nsfw2furious,

    I’m neurodivergent

    Godsdamned illithids

    MimicJar,

    I want shorter games, with worse graphics, made by people who get paid more to do less.

    Honestly that’s an excellent summary.

    Don’t get me wrong BG3 is probably one of the best games I’ve ever played and I eventually want BG4 or whatever expansion/spin-off/sequel they want to make. However I waited 23 years between BG2 and BG3, I don’t want to wait that long again, but I can wait.

    But to your point I want good games. I don’t need 100+ hour adventures. In general I don’t want 100+ hour adventures. Those should be rare. I want games that I can finish (at a casual pace) in a weekend or two.

    Portal 1? Braid? Both are short puzzle games that are absolutely fantastic.

    Stanley Parable? Gone Home? Excellent story games. You can beat them in about as much time as it takes to watch a movie.

    assassin_aragorn,

    It’s disappointing that AAA studios don’t recognize this. I don’t want a bloated game that takes 300 hours to experience most of it. I don’t want a giant map. I want a good game. I want a small map filled with life, not a large one with soulless procedurally generated dungeons.

    snippyfulcrum,
    @snippyfulcrum@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m just putting it out there that I have finished almost 3 different playthroughs and I would 300% purchase DLC.

    If the initial game is a full game and satisfactorily so, I would gladly fork over more money for additional content.

    DLC is not inherently bad. It’s just the way most companies have done it is.

    TipRing,

    I don’t think demanding quality games is inherently at odds with wanting studios to not abuse their workers. What we really should support is broad labor protections and labor unions for developers. Because clearly the AAA studios don’t need the excuse of high demand for features from gamers in order to abuse their people since they have been doing that for years while churning out trash titles.

    chuckleslord,

    Completely agreed. The issue is that gamers™ aggressively advocate for better quality, and do not care about workplace abuse or worse products with more features. This creates the current feedback loop we have where games that are longer, have flashier features, and aren’t finished at launch.

    Labor unions and protections would be excellent, but isn’t something that I, a non-game developer, can do much to advance, besides avocation.

    CosmicCleric,
    @CosmicCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    and do not care about workplace abuse

    I think the recent ActiBlizz situation proves that one incorrect.

    Not saying that 100% of Gamers care, just saying it’s not 0% of Gamers who care.

    Ashtear,

    What’s particularly notable about this well above average gaming year is that the clearly top two games so far aren’t using state-of-the-art graphics.

    Given how messy PC gaming has been lately, with a recent history of GPU shortages followed by an underwhelming new generation and some very poor game optimization, I wouldn’t mind seeing a trend of game development slowing down on graphics tech for a bit.

    pomodoro_longbreak,
    @pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

    We have to go back!

    But also legitimately. Like remember how good games would get near the end of a console’s lifecycle? Then a new console generation would drop and the games would look sharp, but also a bit wonky, until enough years has past, and thennn… another new console generation would drop, and the constraints would disappear again. Always too soon, I thought - just as the games were getting truly good again!

    Ashtear,

    Heh, yes, I still have fond memories of the late 16-bit generation and early fifth-gen games that didn’t get on board the 3D bandwagon. Sprite-based games started to look mighty sexy until everyone decided that untextured polygons were the way to go for a while. 😑

    Klear,

    Always preferred Duke 3D to Quake. The later is way more sophisticated from the technical standpoint (though Build does allow some neat tricks) but Duke is just so vibrant and fun. Destructible environment, original weapons, large enemy variety and proper bosses… Meanwhile Quake is just… brown.

    Isthisreddit,

    Educate a pleeb here, I’ve been out of the gaming loop. What’s the notable exceptions of great games this year and what two that are not state-of-the-art graphics do you mean?

    Ashtear,

    This thread’s on Baldur’s Gate 3, that’s one of them. I should have specified the other of the two most highly-rated games this year; it’s The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. Both games are more or less running last-gen graphics tech and are ahead of the pack on review scores. Zelda looks good for a Switch game, though.

    You could probably ask a dozen gaming enthusiasts and get a dozen different answers on why this year has been exceptional. I’d say it’s because we have a lot of big releases from venerable franchises arriving all in the same year (Baldur’s Gate is one, plus Diablo, Final Fantasy, Harry Potter, Resident Evil, Star Wars, Street Fighter). There are hits from new IPs like Cassette Beasts, Dave the Diver, Hi-Fi Rush, and maybe Starfield in a few weeks if it’s not a disaster.

    It’s a nice mix of old and new worlds and plenty of surprises. On top of all that, it’s only August. I think there’s a sense that the industry is starting to leave the pandemic behind, too.

    dustyData, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

    How does it go?

    I want smaller games, with lower quality graphics. Made by happier developers who are paid more to work less. And I’m not kidding!

    Asafum,

    I mean we can have large games with detailed graphics and have employees treated well. We just need to accept 10+ year timelines for releases on big games which I’m ok with as long as we get quality results and the team is treated well.

    I follow star citizen though so I could be the weird one here lol

    squaresinger,

    And then you need someone to foot the bill for all that. Preferrably ahead of time.

    That’s kinda how lucky Star Citizen got, but that’s not a business model you can replicate a second time.

    Asafum,

    That’s a valid point. As long as there’s a publisher and investors we’re more than likely never going to see what I suggested, I kinda forgot star citizen is what it is because it’s funded by us.

    It’s always the same crunch time for employees and rushed buggy products to feed the investors from “AAA” corps. Hope we can push for some positive change :/

    NotYourSocialWorker,

    I can’t understand why crunch time has become so normalised. There’s no other software development project where constantly failing to plan for the needed time requirement would be accepted. Crunch is a sign of bad project management, it isn’t normal.

    Sylver,

    But when it works, when that day comes, we’ll make a hell of a lot of money for the shareholders! Isn’t that nice?

    AnyOldName3,
    @AnyOldName3@lemmy.world avatar

    At some point, people figured out that during a couple of weeks of mad rush right before a deadline, if you’ve got committed, well-rested employees who know they’re going to get a rest afterwards, they tend to be much more productive than they normally are. Some bad managers only paid attention to part of that, and determined that eighty hour weeks are more than twice as productive as forty hour ones, and intentionally started inducing crunch. They somehow didn’t notice that the third week of crunch is only about as productive as a regular week, and after that, it’s way less productive as everyone’s exhausted. Combine this with the fact that people with management knowledge tend to flee from the games industry rather than to it, and you end up with the software engineering industry’s least effective managers running things with easily debunked dogma.

    squaresinger,

    The main differences with Star Citizen are that it’s

    • Funded in advance
    • Funded by people who have no say in how the product/company should work
    • Massively overfunded

    This means, CIG has no pressure to ship soon or even at all (if the project fails, they have no liability). They also have nobody telling them what to with the money. They have already made their profit.

    I am not knocking CIG for this situation, but if you put it like this, it’s easy to see why for each CIG out there, there are tens of thousands of games on crowdfunding sites that either

    • Failed to raise funds
    • Failed to get a decent company/legal structure running with the money they raised
    • Failed to actually ever deliver anything in an usable state
    • Are just pure scams

    So as a general business model rather than just an insane stroke of luck, I don’t think this is a good option.

    A business model that only earns money after release (like the classic publisher-funded development model) is bad for the obvious cash-grabby and buggy reasons, but at least it consistently delivers games. Contrary to the “earn money before you start development” model that is enabled by crowdfunding, which in general does not deliver games.

    In my (not very educated) opinion, early access is probably the best middle ground. You start off with little initial funding required, but by the time you turn to the crowd, you already have a working prototype and company structure. That makes it much more likely for the game to eventually be released in a full version. This option obviously comes with its own downsides as well, but many of my favourite games have been small studios or even individuals who use early acces to fund development.

    dustyData,

    Dreaming of riding an army of unicorns to battle.

    Notyou,

    Does this include Hollow Knight? Because I want more of that. I can’t wait for Silksong!

    BreadstickNinja, (edited )

    Hollow Knight is the definition of “Rockstar-level nonsense for scope”

    I can’t believe the large majority of it was made by two people. I have 70 hours in that game and still have a couple things I haven’t beaten yet.

    Also cannot wait for Silksong!

    Four_lights77, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭

    Maybe we need to update the nomenclature. Software with loot boxes, pay to win mechanics, predatory gameplay loops, and storefront-first design should now be called “casinos”. They should have disclaimers about gambling and addiction in their load screen, have age restrictions, and should be forced to institute limits on what can be spent in a certain time frame. Feature-complete software with zero storefronts of any kind would be allowed to brand themselves as “games”.

    RegularGoose,

    Better idea: just make that shit illegal.

    MindSkipperBro12,

    That’ll happen when pigs fly.

    Hell, when customers actually learn to have some self respect for themselves.

    Xanvial,

    I guess pigs fly in Belgium and Netherlands

    MindSkipperBro12,

    Fair but let me make a vain attempt to save face: Did that actually make an impact in the industry, given they’re small countries with not much customers.

    Xanvial,

    Not really for now, most games usually just skip releasing in banned countries. But let’s hope EU will adopt this in near future

    RegularGoose,

    It’s not always about making a big impact. Sometimes you just need to set an example.

    LegionEris,

    Oohh. I like this. I’ve been bothered by the rise of gambling in different packaging in the world over the last decade. We really should be acknowledging that gambling is different from gaming, separating them meaningfully. Are toy department shelves still full of child gambling reandom toy bullshit too? I haven’t had reason or opportunity to pay attention to that for a few years.

    Four_lights77,

    I’m not sure about toys, but watching my son grow up with app stores has made me very aware of how so called “games” have been monetizing our children makes me want some real legislation and restrictions on what is legal to market to children. The “idle” category of games is just egregious. They’re a flimsy and thin veneer of game painted over a bank machine. AAA is not much better - they just have more complicated routes take your money.

    Tag365, do games w Noooooo you can't make a microtransactions free game and finished too 😭😭😭
    @Tag365@lemmy.world avatar

    And they’re staring to have Battle Passes have multiple tiers of cost such as in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and NBA 2K24. What’s next? Multiple battle passes at once like in the free to play Monster Legends? In $69.99 priced games? Where the battle passes cost at least $19.99 per month?

    Fraylor, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 17-08-2023

    I play new stuff all the time, but currently what I’ve been rotating through is

    Chivalry 2: played the first one competitively and fortunately the second one is a lot of the same concept so many skills transfer easily. It’s a fun game once it clicks.

    Thronefall: a newer game revolving around base building and surviving waves of enemies while balancing economy and defense

    Pseudoregalia: an incredibly fun platformer/metroidvania style game with really really tight and enjoyable movement controls.

    For mobile, I’ve been stuck in Magic Survival, and Orna since my job requires a lot of walking so those pedometer games are worth my time now.

    SnowGator, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 17-08-2023

    Didn’t continue anything at all I was playing last week! On a whim, I decided to give a little try to Dave the Diver. Like 12+ hours invested now (which is relatively large amount for me in a week…) and it’s all I’m playing. I love so much about the game. There are quirks, and things that could be improved (why on earth can’t I sort my diving pick ups while on a dive to pick the heaviest stuff to drop quickly??), but it feels very much like a “greater than the sum of its parts” game. Which is saying something, since there are a lot of parts in this game! There is enough tedious parts that are detracting enough that I doubt this will be on my top 10 of the year list, but it’s not far from it anyways. Definitely planning on finishing the story and definitely recommended!

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