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TwitchingCheese, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

The discourse around this confuses the fuck out of me. Did people actually expect this to be <$500?

finitebanjo,

That’s the confusing part for me because statements from the design team said they had the very optimistic goal of running most games at 4k 60fps, which is more like $1000 entry level imo.

echodot,

$1,000 is not entry level.

If you go on any website and look at entry level PCs they’re all around $600 to $800.

finitebanjo,

The lowest amount to run most modern titles AT 4K 60 FPS is around $1000, and thats only because graphics card prices have come down.

If 30FPS on 1080p is good enough I could build it for $400.

echodot,

It’s not a 4K capable graphics card though it’s a 1080p capable graphics card that they’re saying is 4K because of the existence of AI upscaling which I think is a cheat. So you’re already overestimating the cards capability.

dustyData,

“…with FSR.”

That there is a huge difference.

MajorasMaskForever,

I think the problem is Valve lost control of the messaging, which led to bad expectations.

At least in the US, a computer hooked up to a TV to play games means it’s a “console” and not a computer. Maybe we can blame Nintendo back in the 80s for going out of their way to avoid calling the NES a computer (despite it’s name in Japan being Famicom, Family Computer), but the distinction exists today despite technologically no real difference. You know this, I know this, Valve knows this. So Valve wants to make a computer you hook up to your TV so they can get you to use their money printing machine Steam in the living room too.

If you read Valve’s marketing material on the Steam Machine, they don’t use the word “console” once. It’s always either by name or the terms PC, computer, or system. They likely don’t mention the word “console” because to date, video game consoles follow a different business model, one where the model subsidizes the shit out of the hardware and then make money on the back end with game sales/licensing.

Current “console” hardware starts in the <$500 price bracket, and with so much third party media marketing calling the Steam Machine a console, that got people’s mind set on pricing expectations of that market.

Flickerby,

This confuses me. You can hookup ANY computer to a living room TV to be a “console”. How is this different?

MajorasMaskForever,

My theory and point was that by thinking about that computer as a console, in the average consumer mindset it should be priced like a console. From a pure hardware product perspective there is no difference

Valve is thinking about it as a computer, and has stated they intend to price it like one and not like a traditional console

scholar,

When you turn it on it boots to a controller friendly UI that shows you all your steam games. No setup, no hunting for drivers, no bloat.

dustyData,

As someone who has hooked up computers to TVs all his life, I can tell you. Just turning on with a controller directly into game mode is a massive game changer as it is a pain to get it working today. Look for guides about it and see the batshit hacks people have come up with.

That and the overabundance of Bluetooth antennas. Oh, and it also comes with super fast WiFi 7 special connection for the frame inside the box. Also, heat and sound management. Gaming PCs are little space heaters, very efficient during cold weather and a pain in the ass in hot climates. Keeping them cool takes an assortment of turbines and makes the living room sound like an airport. If this thing is as power efficient, quiet and cool as advertised, it will be the gaming enthusiast’s dream.

Revan343,

A console is typically locked down; they can sell them at cost or a loss and make up the money selling games. A computer is typically not locked down, you can install games from wherever on it, so they can’t assume you’ll buy your games from them (even though you will)

Mondoshawan,

A computer hooked up to a TV is considered a media center PC, or an HTPC, not a console

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_theater_PC

ieGod,

I think both of you are right but also wrong. It’s called “whatever you want” and there is no universal name for the practice. If you’re not using your PC for media, it certainly isn’t an HTPC.

Mondoshawan,

You’re right, though games are also “media” 😋

ieGod,

Fair!

Credibly_Human,

If you read Valve’s marketing material on the Steam Machine, they don’t use the word “console” once.

Doesn’t matter at all. Its clearly meant to operate in the position of one. They could have very well avoided that term to avoid implying the lock down that consoles come with.

Flamekebab,
@Flamekebab@piefed.social avatar

No, but the price points of the current consoles are hilariously optimistic.

MystikIncarnate,

Idk, $699 USD for the PS5 pro seems a bit closer to “PC pricing” than I would expect from Sony if they’re subsidizing the cost with future game sales.

I’d kind of expect them to be making consoles at break-even/no-profit, more than at a loss right now.

Flamekebab,
@Flamekebab@piefed.social avatar

They can set the asking price to whatever they like but a lot of us cannot justify those amounts for what amounts to a toy. By this stage in a console generation I would expect a lot more games and a lot cheaper hardware. The reasons that haven’t happened aren’t of interest to me as a consumer (they’re of interest to me as a nerd!).

MystikIncarnate,

The reason is simple. Inflation.

The NES originally sold for $180 USD in 1985, which is worth $530 today. The SNES, circa 1991, was $199 USD or $459 today.

Fast forward a bunch…

The switch 2 is currently priced at $449 USD.

The literal price has gone up, but the cost is going down. Slightly, but still.

I’m sure I could repeat the same experiment for PlayStation, Xbox, or Sega’s consoles and see similar results.

Flamekebab,
@Flamekebab@piefed.social avatar

I think it’s a little more complex than that.

MystikIncarnate,

Why do you think that?

Because corporate greed > all?

Flamekebab,
@Flamekebab@piefed.social avatar

Because hardware, software, culture, incomes, demand, supply, and many, many other factors have all changed since the 1980s. It’s not a straight comparison. Inflation is a factor but it is not the only factor.

stevedice,

No, but there’s some unhinged people arguing it’s gonna be $800 or even $1k.

kandoh, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’
@kandoh@reddthat.com avatar

Prediction:

$999.99

stevedice,

If you go to CyberPower (nothing special about them, it’s just the first system integrator that popped into my head). You can find a prebuilt with a RX6700 (which is anywhere from 50 to 70 percent faster than the “custom” GPU on the Steam Machine*) for $1049. It would be monumentally stupid to price the cube anywhere near $1000.

*I’m using an RX7600M to estimate the performance for the Steam Machine since it has exactly the same specs.

Ohmmy,

Plus those Cyberpower PC’s have to factor in a Windows license into the cost.

Honestly, the Steam Machine needs to be less than $800 to be viable.

stevedice, (edited )

I just threw together a PC with an 8500g and a 7600 (not the mobile version) and it came to about $780 while being about 30% faster. I think $750 is the most the market would bear but, honestly, it should just be $650.

Oh shit, I forgot the US doesn’t include tax on their prices. Those $780 are converted from local currency and after taxes. Sales tax in Mexico is 16% so the real price would be around $673. I changed my mind, Valve would be delusional if they price this a cent above $650.

Ohmmy,

While I agree it is cheaper to build your own it also wont be as small as the Steam Machine.

It’s just that Valve has made a point that it will be priced like a PC, if it is priced like a PC then $650 is far too close to current console pricing. I want to be wrong here, I want it to be cheap and really push Linux into the mainstream. I’m just far too cynical and I expect it to be the most pointless product until proven otherwise.

stevedice,

$650 is far too close to current console pricing

I don’t think it is, though. $650 is 44% over the $450 MSRP of the PS5. If we look at “PC prices” (whatever they meant by that) the desktop I specced outperforms it by 30% to 50%. That puts the size tax for the Steam Machine at up to 45%, which would be hard to justify when laptops with 4050s are regularly on sale. Pricing it above $650 means you can go to BestBuy right now and get an HP Victus for $550 and have a spare $100 for a controller. Then you’ll have a PC that is faster, smaller and cheaper than a Steam Machine. This has to be under $700 to succeed. Although… Valve has been fostering a sort of Nintendo effect where they could price it at $5k and send you a dildo along with the PC so you can go fuck yourself and people would still buy it.

Fun fact: I was looking for laptops with a 7600M to get a more direct price to performance comparison but I wasn’t able to find a single one. Guess now we know what they mean by “semi-custom GPU”.

Ohmmy,

The Xbox Series X is $650 and the PS5 is $500.

stevedice,

The digital PS5 is $450 and the Xbox Series X has about 15% of the marketshare, proving people won’t stand for ridiculous prices.

Ohmmy,

No, the disc driveless PS5 is $500. I’m looking at it right now on the playstation website. The PS5 Pro is $750.

$650 is console pricing now. You don’t have to like it but that is the reality.

stevedice, (edited )

Seems like they changed it two months ago. That still puts a $650 price tag 30% above the PS5 MSRP so no, $650 isn’t console pricing.

Ohmmy,

You stated incorrect information then doubled down that your incorrect information was true till finally actually looking it up to then assert that out of 3 consoles $500, $650, and $750 that $650 is not console pricing. So yes, $650 is console pricing, what’re you gonna do tell me I’m wrong again because you have some strong feelings?

stevedice,

Only one of those 3 consoles is comparable to the Steam Machine. You can’t grab a product from a different segment in the market and lump it in with the rest just because they’re the same kind of product. If that were the case, I could just look at a ThinkCentre and say “see? $200 is PC pricing” but thatd be insane — nobody looking to buy a ThinkCentre would ever consider a Steam Machine, and nobody looking to buy the disc or Pro versions of the PS5 will consider a Steam Machine either. So yes, your failure to consider market segments means that you are wrong.

Ohmmy,

None of them are comparable to the Steam Machine as it’s not a console. I’m just saying $650 is pretty average console pricing now.

stevedice,

It’s not a console in the same way the Steam Deck isn’t a Switch competitor. I get what you’re saying but putting “console price” at over $750 would just mesh it with PC pricing and then the distinction would be meaningless.

Ohmmy,

Hmmm let me just look at the title of this post. Oh yeah. PC at PC price. Holy shit no way.

stevedice,

Ah, brilliant argument. Shall I take this as your agreement that $750 is not console pricing?

nuko147,
@nuko147@lemmy.world avatar

I can build a mini PC for a lot less. Even with the joke retail RAM prices. I expect $650-800.

Sektor,

Also they buy parts in huge quantities, it’s not the price you pay for single part, with packaging and all.

ms_lane,

I don’t think it’d be that high, retail prices on similar hardware to the specs is ~USD$700, including a (crappy) case and a (decent) PSU.

I think Valve could get it to $649 without subsidy.

Just due to not having pay as much for the parts, they’d be getting the cpu+gpu directly from AMD as ‘semi-custom’ parts, so there is no Distributor, wholesaler or retailer profits to bundle in, the GPU is on the main board too, so no extra AIB profits to worry about on the GPU.

DRAM will be a ‘fun’ one due to price fluctuations though.

Really depends on how much profit they want to make.

ABetterTomorrow, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

$500 or bust

ivanafterall,
@ivanafterall@lemmy.world avatar

$299.99 feels like it should be the ceiling for a console.

echodot,

I’d like it to cost $1.50 but it won’t. The minimum reasonable price this comes in at is around $500 you would have to be really unaware to expect it to be less than that

ABetterTomorrow,

I don’t know why you get downvoted for this lol. I’ll do you one better. $250 or bust

ivanafterall,
@ivanafterall@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck it. $199.98.

ABetterTomorrow,

Hot damn! Shut up and take my money!

Gladaed,

Won’t happen. It’s a general purpose computer. You can use it for e.g. work computers.

ABetterTomorrow,

Exactly, so now $400 or bust

Gladaed,

Why should valve fund the new office computers for 1000 Walmart employees?

ABetterTomorrow,

That’s their business not mine

Gladaed,

If they comply with your request then that’s a real possibility.

stevedice,

No, it’s not. No company is buying a bunch of Linux PCs with zero enterprise support for their workers.

Gladaed,

You can just install windows.

stevedice,

Sure. Because buying Steam Machines, Windows licences and wasting hours installing Windows on all of them definitely makes financial sense. Not to mention they still wouldn’t have enterprise support.

samus12345, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’
@samus12345@sh.itjust.works avatar

A PS5 Pro, which is more powerful, is $750. If it’s not below that it’s too damn much.

kandoh,
@kandoh@reddthat.com avatar

Cheaper games at a higher upfront cost + no monthly online subscription for multiplayer

Lfrith,

And is actually usable as a desktop being able to run things like blender, krita, gimp, obs, etc.

echodot,

99% of people won’t care though they just want to be able to play stardew valley on their big TV.

Lfrith,

They can do that on a cheap previous gen console or a potato laptop.

kandoh,
@kandoh@reddthat.com avatar

No adobe unfortunately

Lfrith,

If someone really wants adobe they can replace steamos with windows or dualboot or maybe boot windows off a external ssd they installed it on.

cyberpunk007,

Also once you buy it they’ve locked you to their platform and make their Monday back on games.

Goodlucksil,

Not really, you can install any other Linux like on any other AMD PC, as happened with the Steam Deck

devedeset,

They were referring to the PS5

Goodlucksil,

!kandoh implied the steam machine

cyberpunk007,

I’m referring to PlayStation, Xbox, etc.

kandoh,
@kandoh@reddthat.com avatar

Yeah, since thr Gabecube is just a PC then a company could just buy the valve subsidized machine, wipe it, and use it for business stuff and never buy a game. Valve can’t risk that.

cyberpunk007,

This is what I’m saying

Goodlucksil,

Valve isn’t publicly traded so profits aren’t a big issue.

smeg,

This is the key thing that everyone comparing it directly to consoles seems to be completely missing. Even if you’re only buying new steam games the costs are going to be way lower, but you could buy this and just play free giveaways or emulate your own old console games, and suddenly it’s a bargain (like any PC).

ms_lane,

A PS5 Pro is locked to the PlayStation store, I can’t install my Steam, GOG, Epic, etc games on it.

The games are all more expensive too and you have to rebuy them to get resolution upgrades with newer hardware.

LuigiMaoFrance, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

D O A
O
A

cyberpunk007,

My gaming PC from 2019 might be technically barely faster than this (2070S in it) but I’m still inclined to buy one.

What’s convinced me is my steam deck. I couldn’t be happier with a piece of hardware as this. And if this is just a more powerful non-handheld variant that does all the same shit, I’d be open to it for sure.

CleoCommunist, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’
@CleoCommunist@lemmy.ml avatar

If olot really Is going to be priced like that then why? Like you Can Build a PC and Its even fun. You cant make a Powerfull PC that small easly but like…idk

itsprobablyfine,

I’m guessing the same reason people don’t always reroof their own house, or replace their own home electrical, or build their own bike. Sometimes it’s worth spending money to avoid doing a thing you either don’t want to or don’t know how to do. As I’ve gotten older and more financially secure that’s definitely been the case with me at least

nwtreeoctopus,

Plus, they may be able to come in slightly cheaper on volume discounts on components.

I’ve always built my on PCs, but there are times when the whims of the market have made pre-builts cheaper.

DioramaOfShit,

People out there replacing their homes electrical?

itsprobablyfine,

It’s weird being on this site sometimes. Not everyone speaks computer, but it turns out that doesn’t make them dumb, they’re just good at different things. Personally I have no issues doing electrical work but know I would get incredibly frustrated trying to work a Linux machine. I have no interest in learning all that noise because it straight up is not interesting to me and is not worth my time. I had my fill of that nonsense in school. I’d def be a potential customer of something like this that ‘works out of the box’ - honestly that’s the real path to getting people off windows.

CleoCommunist,
@CleoCommunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah there Is also that. Its more convenient sometimes to not do the “Sorry” job

sugar_in_your_tea,

Eh, I don’t particularly enjoy building PCs, but I do it because it’s cheaper, esp. for upgrades. I’m really not the target market for this.

That said, this is the right product for a lot of people. Many don’t want to mess with their gaming system, they want it to just work. That’s why consoles are popular, and the Steam Machine being a bit more expensive than a console and get access to Steam’s catalog is very attractive to a lot of people, especially if it otherwise works like a console.

CleoCommunist,
@CleoCommunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah It works like the pc-console with steamOS ita Just i found that for me and some other people its a Little redundant, but not that people shouldnt buy it

Squizzy,

There were some pieces mentioned on waveform about its set up being out of box ready to be turned on by tv remote and those few console like bits that people like me wouldnt know how to do if we built.

IEatDaFeesh, (edited )

If you want a smaller form factor it actually costs you more than a normal tower. This is not a bad way to get a small form factor computer (if it’s priced like a normal sized PC)

Especially with the fucked up RAM prices recently.

CleoCommunist,
@CleoCommunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah fi you want a small pc its very good since its hard to find Powerfull small PCs

Darkness343, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

As long as I can buy it with one Troy ounce of pure gold and not more, it’s a good price.

CleoCommunist,
@CleoCommunist@lemmy.ml avatar

No its gonna be 0.5674392 Troy ounces of pure Gold

sugar_in_your_tea,

That’s a rip off, it’ll be more like 1/4 troy ounce, if that

Darkness343,

Acceptable price

lorty, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

I hope they release the price soon, the discourse on this has become incredibly tiring.

adavis,

I doubt they will. The market for NAND and ram is insane at the moment, RAM has gone up 100% in the last 3 months. Announcing a price too early could lead to having embarrassingly increase price shortly before or after launch, or take a loss on the products.

That’s not to say I don’t share your sentiments. I too hope they announce it sooner rather than later, but understand why they may be apprehensive.

excral,

Additionally with how the USD is tanking and the ever looming risk of new tariffs being added on a whim, there is a real risk that even without global price increases the price needs to be increased for the US specifically

arsCynic, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

Fair prices are fair, the existence of billionaires is not. Tax Gabe Newell and the rest of 'em too.

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t he buy a massive yacht on the same day steam announced these products? It can’t be easy to sneak a superyacht under the publicity radar, but he seems to have pretty much managed it.

cyberpunk007,

I think he’s earned it. I will accept. 😅.

He’s one rich guy I feel isn’t a piece of shit and has good ideas.

bluesheep,

There is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, don’t kid yourself.

RedRibbonArmy,

You only become a billionaire by being a greedy bastard, there’s no exceptions.

themachinestops,
Damage, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

They’re letting us discuss this ad nauseam just to understand what prices people consider acceptable for these devices

SCmSTR,

100%

But that’s not a terrible thing, I suppose.

DonEladio,

Absolutely. I think 80$ for the full package seems fair.

GreenKnight23,

$60? why do they want $50 for something that’s clearly $10?

markstos,

$70 if you hand deliver it to me. It’s my final offer.

bjoern_tantau,
@bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de avatar
Damage,

Fair pricing means a reasonable profit on the base cost. Trying to gauge what people are willing to pay means that you want to maximise your profit at all costs, consumers be damned.

I understand that’s what Americans consider “fair”, but I don’t fully agree.

SCmSTR, (edited )

In most cases, yes. But you have to remember, this is Valve and not some ordinary company. They have extremely deep wallets and a lot of responsibility and expectations on their shoulders (importantly, not the stock market!). If they charged what it cost for hardware and what it cost them to do r&d, it would likely not be in consumers favor.

Like even just get off the American-bad thing for one second: pricing it as a standalone pc basically just means “the cost of the parts”. They’ve put a lot of time and effort into this across their core employees and likely outsourced stuff because they couldn’t, in-house. Actually listening to people and charging relative to that is actually a great way to be fair and make people happy, guaranteeing positive impact of your product. I guarantee they’re paying attention to what people say ALL over the place. Like… Why do you think “it’s done when it’s done” is their pace?

SparroHawc,

They’re buying the parts directly from the manufacturers though, so cutting out the retailer middle-man could offset the R&D costs.

Uebercomplicated,

Research and development is probably very high when you consider Proton, SteamOS, and the semi-custom CPU and GPU. Something between $50 to $100 million would be typical. Silicone is famously expensive in R&D, Proton has continuous costs (and has for quite a while now) that rack up, and SteamOS is literally an operating system. That’s a lot of salaries to pay.

I reckon they’re taking advantage of being private and playing the long game. Very, very long game. They’re not really in danger as long as Steam is successful, but I can’t blame them for wanting a decent gross margin so they can at least cover hardware costs. Especially with memory prices right now, I wouldn’t be surprised at 1000€ here in Germany, though I wouldn’t be happy about it. I would happily buy at 900€ (≈$1040), and be ecstatic at 800€ (≈$920).

SparroHawc,

Personally, I wouldn’t include Proton in the costs of the Steam Machine. The Deck already is benefiting from it immensely, and I would consider it to be a cost of expanding into Linux gaming in general - especially with the Lenovo handheld and other devices starting to jump on the bandwagon as Microsoft continues to take repeated dumps on their userbase. Its R&D costs are being won back by the market % Steam takes on any games bought and played in Linux, which means that it can benefit from that continued revenue stream rather than the one-off hardware sale.

The hardware has to break even. The software already has.

mic_check_one_two,

Fair pricing means a reasonable profit on the base cost.

Under many circumstances, this is true. However, console makers have historically sold consoles either at or slightly below cost, expecting to make their real profits on game sales, online store sales, etc… In the business world, it’s called a loss leader. Meaning it’s something popular that the company takes a loss on, while expecting it to encourage more sales elsewhere.

The classic grocery store example is a rotisserie chicken. You can go get a whole rotisserie chicken from the grocery store deli for like $3. It’s so cheap because the store is selling it at a loss. It’s a loss leader. Very few people will simply buy the chicken by itself. Instead, they’ll buy a tub of potato salad, some roasted corn, a can of green beans, and a gallon jug of sweet tea to go along with it. By selling that chicken at a slight loss, they were able to get the customer to buy all of those other things at a profit.

That being said, Valve has already stated that they’re not planning on having the Machine be a loss leader. Which is why people expect it to cost as much as a prebuilt with similar specs.

Goodlucksil,

It’s a good idea, tout the market before doing anything controversial

Diplomjodler3,
@Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world avatar

Anything more than $500 and we riot!

sugar_in_your_tea,

Get ready to riot because there’s no way it’s that cheap. My money is on $800-1000.

RightHandOfIkaros,

If it is priced higher than $600 they won’t sell enough to justify their existence. It will just be a repeat of last time.

This is perfect for people wanting a new console with a large games library, but Valve seems to be trying to force the square block in the round hole by placing it in the PC market space.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Why? Look at how many people here say they want Steam OS, and Lemmy skews heavy toward Linux users. This is that, but OOTB.

I don’t think it’ll sell anywhere near as well as the Steam Deck, but it’s also a less exciting form factor. I do think it’ll sell a fair number of units though.

The cheapest equivalent prebuilt I can find with similar specs (RX 7600 is slightly better than the Steam Machine) is $850, and a DIY build is more like $900 (lots of corners cut), so there’s probably not much margin on the prebuilt. Valve is probably saving some cash with their custom CPU, and they’re probably shipping it with a Steam Controller, hence the $800 target. If component prices rise significantly before launch, I could see $1k.

echodot,

It depends on how many Valve I’ve already manufactured. If they were smart they’ll be quietly manufacturing these and only just now announced it. You don’t announce a product until you’ve got some units sitting in a warehouse somewhere, or else a competitor might see the opportunity to make things difficult for you.

curiousaur,

That’s a bad take. Look at PC prices. What equivalent PC could you build for $1000? This is going to be 800+ and still the best value in the PC market. Until they get steam OS on arm and you can put it in a 600 Mac mini.

Damage,

Equivalent doesn’t mean much when it’s not a standard, upgradable PC. This device competes with consoles, not desktop PCs, and needs to be in that price bracket, as the equivalence is not on the hardware or performance, but just “can it play current-gen games?”

echodot,

An equivalent PC would have a full fat non-mobile graphics card. They keep trying to claim it’ll do 60 FPS at 4K with AI upscaling. Which is the same as saying it’ll do 60 FPS at 1080p.

This would be a compelling product as a console, the PC capable parts are a nice bonus but no one’s going to be buying this to be their primary computer unless they are going to replace a potato.

Regardless of what the market is doing if it’s anything more than $700 it’ll flop. Which would be an incredible shame but it is what it is. No one is going to pay $1,000 for a PC that cannot be upgraded.

Uebercomplicated,

I don’t think this is accurate. The majority of IRL gamers I know are casual people with crappy Minecraft-level pre-builts (hugely overpriced usually; I know someone who spent 1.1k on a 3060 Ti pre-built) or 10 year-old computers built by their neighbors. A lot of casual gamers exist and the steam machine will be very appealing to them as an easy upgrade.

In a way, you’re right. A lot of people will be upgrading potatoes. Or replacing thin air next to their TV’s.

Even I, with a custom built with a 7900 XT running openSUSE TW, am considering this for doing stuff in the living room (or similar, I live in a tiny apartment lol) with friends or just casual-TV gaming and media. I don’t have that right now, and even 900€ sounds appealing for doing that with a Linux-based computer (and gamescope!!!, which I can’t get working on my device) I have full control over, but know will work.

I don’t know of something equivalently priced, but it there is something, please tell me. I think they have a market here. I personally, at least, have been waiting years for something like this to recommend to friends and to an extent to myself.

curiousaur,

This is absolutely where it’s going to be.

0_o7,

You’ll have to deal with a cult that will defend their lord Gabe’s every move.

Goodeye8,

I doubt it. I think they understand that the hardware market is volatile and what might cost $800 now might be $1000 in a few months.

echodot,

I suspect it’s because of the uncertainty over tariffs. Ironically making manufacturing in the US less appetising for businesses.

Deconceptualist, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’
  1. The top end Steam Deck was like $750 at release. Replace the screen with better CPU and GPU, and there’s your baseline for the Machine. Since it’s “6x” performance, price will probably be a bit higher. People thinking way less are smoking crack.
  2. How many of you have actually had a Linux PC connected to your living room TV? I built one about 13 years ago (and upgraded the guts occasionally) and it’s been awesome. With a regular web browser you can watch YouTube (with uBlock of course), Plex/Jellyfin, or any streaming service, in addition to gaming. Plus I’ve done stuff like vacation planning with my partner, where we can easily bring up maps and hotel listings from our couch without hunching over a laptop or tablet.
  3. While Linux hardware support is quite good these days, there’s still something to be said for buying a machine that you know is fully supported and targeted by game devs.
brown567,
  1. Ooh! Me! My TV has been a Linux box since 2016, and I’m NEVER going back
TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Same, but I’m much more recent. Got a rpi 5 running Arch. Been happy with it for 2-3 years now

jinwk00,

How is ALARM recently?

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Did you mean ARM? As in arm cpu support?

jinwk00,

Arch Linux ARM is sometimes called ALARM Last time I heard device support was limited

TrickDacy,
@TrickDacy@lemmy.world avatar

Ah gotcha. It’s pretty nice. Got everything to work for a media PC. Took some upfront effort, and the device is still technically not supported but it works!

P1k1e,

Just set this up after the whole windows 10 support drop thing, and holy shit!!! This is awesome! Not only no ads but I can Strawhat everything! Just got a figure out how to do this for my phone now

chellomere,

I’m happily running an Intel NUC as TV computer since 2013, and it’s awesome for exactly the reasons you state. I invested in it when I realized how fully crap the “smart” features of my Samsung TV are. The ultimate controller for it is a combo keyboard and touchpad, I have the Logitech K400r.

The NUC is starting to show it’s age now with its 4th gen i5, and I’m in the process of replacing it with a mini PC with an Intel N100.

nailbar,

Looks at my setup with Samsung tv, NUC, and wireless touchpad-keyboard combo… Huh? How about that!

chellomere,

It is a killer combo!

psivchaz,

Had a Windows PC hooked up to my TV in I think 2008, before streaming boxes and mass adoption of Netflix. Then it was dualboot for a while starting in I think 2015, originally with Ubuntu. Now it’s full time CachyOS Linux as of 2023.

It’s always been great. Wireless keyboard with the built in trackpad, plus originally 360 controllers but now 8BitDo Ultimate controllers. Plus I use it for homelab tinkering.

tempest,

The majority of the steam deck SKUs were produced prior to the AI memory crunch.

These steam machines are being produced in a market where memory is 3 or 4 times more expensive.

This box will be more than a steam deck. Probably 1000 bucks or so.

Katana314,

I had a PC connected to my tv for a while, main issue was I didn’t want to use a mouse or keyboard to interact with it. I tried desperately to get more ways of starting via controller or other lite interface devices, but nothing convenient. It was an old machine, so eventually I gave it away.

TonyOstrich, (edited )
@TonyOstrich@lemmy.world avatar

I use a Logitech K400 to control the PC connected to my TV and I generally find it to be much more convenient and responsive than using the remote on a smart TV or the controller for a console when over at someone else’s place. To each their own though.

123,

Typing anything like a website for the apple TV is the most excruciatingly annoying thing ever, it could only be described as torture. I would punch the executives that approved the design.

The shitty iOS input via annoying notification prompts when anyone in the house uses the TV are not a solution either, since they get so annoying you have yo disable them.

Lfrith,

Yep. Trying to type with anything but a keyboard sucks. I love my k400. I’ve had it for years and years. Not sure how old it is but I think I got it during the PS3/360 era for PC TV use and it still works. And batteries last so long on it.

chellomere,

I have one that I bought in 2013. Has fallen to the floor countless times, still works like day 1.

Katana314,

I feel like a lot of these pointer devices miss the simplicity of a remote. A simple one will have a tough time entering passwords, but it’s perfect and simple for the most common actions: Turn on without walking across the room, open the most recent application, play the next episode of the series I was watching last, usually just by mashing confirm. (Nothing to tell it to go fullscreen: Because that’s an obvious assumption for everything)

Running it all on a PC just adds more steps, unless you follow a LOT of guides to configure it to get through those things easily.

I’d really like it if web standards were better at allowing a video website to be navigated with an “Up/Down/Left/Right/Confirm/Back” device, so that you didn’t need apps for everything. That would be good for consumer devices like Apple TVs as well as people running home PC setups.

TonyOstrich,
@TonyOstrich@lemmy.world avatar

That’s kinda why I said to each their own. I personally find a full fledged keyboard with integrated touchpad controlling a PC using a media center UI to be my control/interface preference. The keyboard is small enough and light enough that it sits on the couch or end table with the other remotes or controllers without any issue. Until Logitech decided to be cunts there was actually a great solution more on your end of the spectrum in the form of the Harmony remote, but well, they killed it. Luckily though, there are a couple of open source efforts to create equivalent hardware as well as to dump their database of IR codes.

Deconceptualist,

That’s a tough one. The new Steam Controller will probably let you use the trackpads with an onscreen keyboard (as long as you’re running the Steam app), just like the Deck. But personally I can’t get used to that.

You generally need some kind of keyboard with a PC. I have a little handheld Rii i4 with a thumb keyboard, maybe that would be better for you?

moakley,

Something like ten years ago I got into a console vs PC argument on reddit, and everyone unanimously told me that starting up a PC with a controller was such an easy feature to add that it wasn’t even a consideration. I stuck with consoles.

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

I’ve got a Linux machine attached to my TV right now. It’s basically a Steam, Kodi and Firefox box.

sugar_in_your_tea,
  1. Yeah, I’m guessing $800-1000, and they’ll probably throw in a Steam Controller. That’s about how much a comparable PC would cost
  2. I’ve been debating it, but it needs to be something my 5yo can use.
  3. And that’s Valve’s target market here, those unwilling to DIY.
dogs0n, (edited )
  1. Personally don’t think it’s as easy to compare the deck to a box. It’s harder to stuff the power of a steam deck into such a small package. I’ve seen the compute of the machine be related to about 600$ if you purchased parts on your own to build the pc, but considering Valve have economies of scale, custom deals for customized chips with amd and having priced “painfully” in the past, there’s a good chance it’s less than 750$. All the Steam decks had the same performance too, the expensive ones just came with more storage and a case (so using the top end price in your example seems unjust?).
  2. Very true, those keyboard/mouse combo things that resemble a gamepad are the best!

(Not usually one to dive into speculation, but “priced like a pc” can literally mean anything so we really have no clue other than looking at the specs)

(I had another thought; i think it’s probably a blunder from a “get all the customers” perspective to have the machine cost upwards of 1k, but maybe they don’t care about that and simply want to set a high standard for linux pcs like they have done with the deck, so yeah i have no clue, based on the specs though, ~600 seems like a good base. The cheaper it is the more customers they stand to gain who have looked at pc gaming and sighed because they didnt know how to get started. Really feels impossible to know their motive rn tho, the machine could simply exist as a “gold standard” to get other oems making this stuff like they have done with the deck as i said above i think)

Deconceptualist,

The new Steam Machine is very compact for a gaming PC of its caliber. That took some real engineering to find the right combination of component size, TDP, thermals and noise for such a small box. There’s obviously no screen and battery but otherwise it’s similar design work as on the Deck.

dogs0n,

Makes sense, I haven’t seen dimensions, but the space for pure compute has definitely increased greatly.

It is still very small, but the deck (in comparison) is quite thin which I assume made it much harder to engineer. I’m sure a lot of knowledge has transferred over though and i’m not gonna act like i’d know anyways lol

Deconceptualist,

If you look at a teardown of the Machine, it’s almost all heatsink inside. The remaining space isn’t really a lot bigger than a Deck. But the components run much higher wattage (not constrained by battery) and put out a lot more heat, hence the need for the sink.

dogs0n,

Oh wow, I didn’t know they had teardowns yet, that’s kinda funny hehe

coriza,

Did you get streaming services to stream 4k? That was some bullshit I discovered when I bought my first 4k TV, that streaming services artificially limit quality for browser and Linux streaming.

What is you solution for remote controlling? I used one of this mini keyboard+mouse combo in a shape of controller, but mine was really trash. Most of the time I used a good mouse that worked ok on the couch surface and some mouse binds to pop up a virtual keyboard. But I was never completely happy with the solution.

Deconceptualist,

Never tried 4K, sorry. I’ve only had a 1080p plasma TV (which recently blew a capacitor so I may have to get something else).

For control, I use an old Logitech K830 which has a trackpad right on it. It’s a good step up from the K400 series (lithium rechargeable and backlit keys) but sadly appears to be discontinued 😞

coriza,

I almost bought that keyboard, but never did in the end.

HeyJoe, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

Quick question, can you buy a pc and run the same OS and version of steam that this pc they built uses? Im assuming its the same as steam deck. Just wondering if you could build it exactly the same outside just installing steam.

davad,

You can do this now. But it’ll probably be more effort than using something like Bazzite. The image is available publicly. It just assumes a certain set of hardware (AMD GPU, for example). It might be enough to install the GPU drivers you need. Worst case, you might have to recompile the kernel. But all the user space configuration should be fine.

help.steampowered.com/en/…/65B4-2AA3-5F37-4227

bw42,

Sure.

I have a cheap $250 AMD APU based mini pc I bought off Amazon running SteamOS. I just used the Steam Deck restore USB image to install it. I imagine you could use the Steam Machine image the same way when its available.

knova,
@knova@infosec.pub avatar

What kind of performance are you getting with that? Wondering if I can pick up something like that to play some 2d platformers, maybe some low poly 3D stuff (think Overcooked or Moving Out). Been doing more of that stuff in my living room with my kids.

bw42,

I haven’t had any issues yet with performance. Though I’ve been running it at 1080p and heaviest I’ve ran on it so far is Cats Quest 3.

rtxn,

You can, technically, but there are some caveats.

SteamOS is not a general purpose OS. It is optimized to run on the Steam Deck (plus the Frame and Gabecube I guess). Its software components are tested on a limited range of hardware (specifically AMD silicon), and it might not have certain optimizations and compatibility fixes that are required by other consumer hardware. It also probably has some proprietary bits, especially the firmware.

The best option is Bazzite. It’s not based on SteamOS, but it is built with a robust gaming experience in focus. You can even get it to boot directly into Steam Big Picture. Watch this loud Aussie man do it!

The other option is HoloISO, which is an independent reimplementation of SteamOS. Their intention is to get as close to the real SteamOS as possible. Hardware support is limited (especially nvidia).

Postmortal_Pop,

Popping in to champion bazzite, it’s my daily use os and I’ve never found an os that’s as easy and clean to run. So far the only issue I’ve had is that it doesn’t support some laptop wifi cards out of the box.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

No.

They haven’t released the current version of SteamOS to be installed on any machine and imaging the actual Deck’s OS won’t work on all hardware. You could do the old steam machine OS; but it is not anywhere the same as what the Deck and this new Steam Machine use other than being based on Linux.

There is Bazzite, though, which is not the same OS, but strives to offer the same experience.

TeNppa,

They have released the recovery image for the deck, which can be installed on any computer and if you have AMD built pc, it should work just fine. Ofc ymmv.

kurcatovium, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’
@kurcatovium@piefed.social avatar

That sucks. I hoped Valve would price it competitively to boost the sales and adoption. But why would I buy this “crippled” PC for the same price I can buy retail? The main gripe for me is Gabecube has no room for upgrade, not even second drive, nothing. Which obviously is not the case with self built PC.

Don’t get me wrong I still like the idea, but the price just must make sense.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

why do you think it’ll be crippled?

kurcatovium,
@kurcatovium@piefed.social avatar

I mean crippled like it is “as is”, no space to expand, tinker, swap parts. I’ve also seen a rumor it’ll have locked BIOS, but I hope that’s just a rumor.

TachyonTele,

I doubt all of those concerns. The Deck can be expanded just fine.

kurcatovium, (edited )
@kurcatovium@piefed.social avatar

How? I’ve seen photo of machine’s inside, there’s nothing. You can replace m.2 or add microSD and that’s it. Compare that to “regular PC”.

RightHandOfIkaros,

RAM on the Steam Deck is not expandable.

Well, it technically is if you remove the current RAM chips, solder on new double density RAM chips, and flash the BIOS. But compared to a regular PC of just plugging the RAM sticks into the Motherboard slots they belong in, trying to expand RAM on the Steam Deck might as well be considered not possible. Even if you do expand the RAM, there is no noticeable performance gain.

TachyonTele,

You can double the ram if you wanted to. A quick simple search brings up multiple articles about it

RightHandOfIkaros,

Yeah, I said that in the second part of my comment. It requires desoldering the RAM chips and soldering on new ones, a step most people aren’t going to do.

kurcatovium,
@kurcatovium@piefed.social avatar

Nah, just download more RAM and be good… /s

chronicledmonocle, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

I know speculation is fun, but until we know the price officially, all of this is moot. Wait until next year when they announce actual pricing and judge it then for its value.

I, personally, don’t think it’ll be a successful product if it isn’t less than $800. They don’t have to have it cost console prices, but it does need to be at least somewhat within spitting distance. If the price is the cost of an Xbox or Playstation plus, say…a year of their online service subscription, I think that could be marketable.

If it’s closer to a grand, it’ll be a flop like the first Steam Machines.

unexposedhazard,

Even at 1000$ it will most likely outperform any 1000$ prebuilt you can buy. If they market it like this it can absolutely work at that price point.

Ulvain,

Technically i believe that as long as it’s less expensive than the top consoles, it’ll have it’s market share, no?

Credibly_Human,

I know speculation is fun, but

Then you can stop right there. This is just people having fun talking about announced tech.

No reason to over meta analyze it.

bagbrugsen, do games w Valve confirms Steam Machine will be priced ‘like a PC with the same level of performance’

Maybe we will all benefit if the 14 year old kids gets a steam machine, instead of some cheap pos with loads of errors, slowness etc = extra rage in games.

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