My gaming PC from 2019 might be technically barely faster than this (2070S in it) but I’m still inclined to buy one.
What’s convinced me is my steam deck. I couldn’t be happier with a piece of hardware as this. And if this is just a more powerful non-handheld variant that does all the same shit, I’d be open to it for sure.
If olot really Is going to be priced like that then why? Like you Can Build a PC and Its even fun. You cant make a Powerfull PC that small easly but like…idk
I’m guessing the same reason people don’t always reroof their own house, or replace their own home electrical, or build their own bike. Sometimes it’s worth spending money to avoid doing a thing you either don’t want to or don’t know how to do. As I’ve gotten older and more financially secure that’s definitely been the case with me at least
It’s weird being on this site sometimes. Not everyone speaks computer, but it turns out that doesn’t make them dumb, they’re just good at different things. Personally I have no issues doing electrical work but know I would get incredibly frustrated trying to work a Linux machine. I have no interest in learning all that noise because it straight up is not interesting to me and is not worth my time. I had my fill of that nonsense in school. I’d def be a potential customer of something like this that ‘works out of the box’ - honestly that’s the real path to getting people off windows.
Eh, I don’t particularly enjoy building PCs, but I do it because it’s cheaper, esp. for upgrades. I’m really not the target market for this.
That said, this is the right product for a lot of people. Many don’t want to mess with their gaming system, they want it to just work. That’s why consoles are popular, and the Steam Machine being a bit more expensive than a console and get access to Steam’s catalog is very attractive to a lot of people, especially if it otherwise works like a console.
Yeah It works like the pc-console with steamOS ita Just i found that for me and some other people its a Little redundant, but not that people shouldnt buy it
There were some pieces mentioned on waveform about its set up being out of box ready to be turned on by tv remote and those few console like bits that people like me wouldnt know how to do if we built.
If you want a smaller form factor it actually costs you more than a normal tower. This is not a bad way to get a small form factor computer (if it’s priced like a normal sized PC)
Especially with the fucked up RAM prices recently.
I doubt they will. The market for NAND and ram is insane at the moment, RAM has gone up 100% in the last 3 months. Announcing a price too early could lead to having embarrassingly increase price shortly before or after launch, or take a loss on the products.
That’s not to say I don’t share your sentiments. I too hope they announce it sooner rather than later, but understand why they may be apprehensive.
Additionally with how the USD is tanking and the ever looming risk of new tariffs being added on a whim, there is a real risk that even without global price increases the price needs to be increased for the US specifically
Didn’t he buy a massive yacht on the same day steam announced these products? It can’t be easy to sneak a superyacht under the publicity radar, but he seems to have pretty much managed it.
Fair pricing means a reasonable profit on the base cost. Trying to gauge what people are willing to pay means that you want to maximise your profit at all costs, consumers be damned.
I understand that’s what Americans consider “fair”, but I don’t fully agree.
In most cases, yes. But you have to remember, this is Valve and not some ordinary company. They have extremely deep wallets and a lot of responsibility and expectations on their shoulders (importantly, not the stock market!). If they charged what it cost for hardware and what it cost them to do r&d, it would likely not be in consumers favor.
Like even just get off the American-bad thing for one second: pricing it as a standalone pc basically just means “the cost of the parts”. They’ve put a lot of time and effort into this across their core employees and likely outsourced stuff because they couldn’t, in-house. Actually listening to people and charging relative to that is actually a great way to be fair and make people happy, guaranteeing positive impact of your product. I guarantee they’re paying attention to what people say ALL over the place. Like… Why do you think “it’s done when it’s done” is their pace?
Research and development is probably very high when you consider Proton, SteamOS, and the semi-custom CPU and GPU. Something between $50 to $100 million would be typical. Silicone is famously expensive in R&D, Proton has continuous costs (and has for quite a while now) that rack up, and SteamOS is literally an operating system. That’s a lot of salaries to pay.
I reckon they’re taking advantage of being private and playing the long game. Very, very long game. They’re not really in danger as long as Steam is successful, but I can’t blame them for wanting a decent gross margin so they can at least cover hardware costs. Especially with memory prices right now, I wouldn’t be surprised at 1000€ here in Germany, though I wouldn’t be happy about it. I would happily buy at 900€ (≈$1040), and be ecstatic at 800€ (≈$920).
Personally, I wouldn’t include Proton in the costs of the Steam Machine. The Deck already is benefiting from it immensely, and I would consider it to be a cost of expanding into Linux gaming in general - especially with the Lenovo handheld and other devices starting to jump on the bandwagon as Microsoft continues to take repeated dumps on their userbase. Its R&D costs are being won back by the market % Steam takes on any games bought and played in Linux, which means that it can benefit from that continued revenue stream rather than the one-off hardware sale.
The hardware has to break even. The software already has.
Fair pricing means a reasonable profit on the base cost.
Under many circumstances, this is true. However, console makers have historically sold consoles either at or slightly below cost, expecting to make their real profits on game sales, online store sales, etc… In the business world, it’s called a loss leader. Meaning it’s something popular that the company takes a loss on, while expecting it to encourage more sales elsewhere.
The classic grocery store example is a rotisserie chicken. You can go get a whole rotisserie chicken from the grocery store deli for like $3. It’s so cheap because the store is selling it at a loss. It’s a loss leader. Very few people will simply buy the chicken by itself. Instead, they’ll buy a tub of potato salad, some roasted corn, a can of green beans, and a gallon jug of sweet tea to go along with it. By selling that chicken at a slight loss, they were able to get the customer to buy all of those other things at a profit.
That being said, Valve has already stated that they’re not planning on having the Machine be a loss leader. Which is why people expect it to cost as much as a prebuilt with similar specs.
If it is priced higher than $600 they won’t sell enough to justify their existence. It will just be a repeat of last time.
This is perfect for people wanting a new console with a large games library, but Valve seems to be trying to force the square block in the round hole by placing it in the PC market space.
Why? Look at how many people here say they want Steam OS, and Lemmy skews heavy toward Linux users. This is that, but OOTB.
I don’t think it’ll sell anywhere near as well as the Steam Deck, but it’s also a less exciting form factor. I do think it’ll sell a fair number of units though.
The cheapest equivalent prebuilt I can find with similar specs (RX 7600 is slightly better than the Steam Machine) is $850, and a DIY build is more like $900 (lots of corners cut), so there’s probably not much margin on the prebuilt. Valve is probably saving some cash with their custom CPU, and they’re probably shipping it with a Steam Controller, hence the $800 target. If component prices rise significantly before launch, I could see $1k.
It depends on how many Valve I’ve already manufactured. If they were smart they’ll be quietly manufacturing these and only just now announced it. You don’t announce a product until you’ve got some units sitting in a warehouse somewhere, or else a competitor might see the opportunity to make things difficult for you.
That’s a bad take. Look at PC prices. What equivalent PC could you build for $1000? This is going to be 800+ and still the best value in the PC market. Until they get steam OS on arm and you can put it in a 600 Mac mini.
Equivalent doesn’t mean much when it’s not a standard, upgradable PC. This device competes with consoles, not desktop PCs, and needs to be in that price bracket, as the equivalence is not on the hardware or performance, but just “can it play current-gen games?”
An equivalent PC would have a full fat non-mobile graphics card. They keep trying to claim it’ll do 60 FPS at 4K with AI upscaling. Which is the same as saying it’ll do 60 FPS at 1080p.
This would be a compelling product as a console, the PC capable parts are a nice bonus but no one’s going to be buying this to be their primary computer unless they are going to replace a potato.
Regardless of what the market is doing if it’s anything more than $700 it’ll flop. Which would be an incredible shame but it is what it is. No one is going to pay $1,000 for a PC that cannot be upgraded.
I don’t think this is accurate. The majority of IRL gamers I know are casual people with crappy Minecraft-level pre-builts (hugely overpriced usually; I know someone who spent 1.1k on a 3060 Ti pre-built) or 10 year-old computers built by their neighbors. A lot of casual gamers exist and the steam machine will be very appealing to them as an easy upgrade.
In a way, you’re right. A lot of people will be upgrading potatoes. Or replacing thin air next to their TV’s.
Even I, with a custom built with a 7900 XT running openSUSE TW, am considering this for doing stuff in the living room (or similar, I live in a tiny apartment lol) with friends or just casual-TV gaming and media. I don’t have that right now, and even 900€ sounds appealing for doing that with a Linux-based computer (and gamescope!!!, which I can’t get working on my device) I have full control over, but know will work.
I don’t know of something equivalently priced, but it there is something, please tell me. I think they have a market here. I personally, at least, have been waiting years for something like this to recommend to friends and to an extent to myself.
The top end Steam Deck was like $750 at release. Replace the screen with better CPU and GPU, and there’s your baseline for the Machine. Since it’s “6x” performance, price will probably be a bit higher. People thinking way less are smoking crack.
How many of you have actually had a Linux PC connected to your living room TV? I built one about 13 years ago (and upgraded the guts occasionally) and it’s been awesome. With a regular web browser you can watch YouTube (with uBlock of course), Plex/Jellyfin, or any streaming service, in addition to gaming. Plus I’ve done stuff like vacation planning with my partner, where we can easily bring up maps and hotel listings from our couch without hunching over a laptop or tablet.
While Linux hardware support is quite good these days, there’s still something to be said for buying a machine that you know is fully supported and targeted by game devs.
Ah gotcha. It’s pretty nice. Got everything to work for a media PC. Took some upfront effort, and the device is still technically not supported but it works!
Just set this up after the whole windows 10 support drop thing, and holy shit!!! This is awesome! Not only no ads but I can Strawhat everything! Just got a figure out how to do this for my phone now
I’m happily running an Intel NUC as TV computer since 2013, and it’s awesome for exactly the reasons you state. I invested in it when I realized how fully crap the “smart” features of my Samsung TV are. The ultimate controller for it is a combo keyboard and touchpad, I have the Logitech K400r.
The NUC is starting to show it’s age now with its 4th gen i5, and I’m in the process of replacing it with a mini PC with an Intel N100.
Had a Windows PC hooked up to my TV in I think 2008, before streaming boxes and mass adoption of Netflix. Then it was dualboot for a while starting in I think 2015, originally with Ubuntu. Now it’s full time CachyOS Linux as of 2023.
It’s always been great. Wireless keyboard with the built in trackpad, plus originally 360 controllers but now 8BitDo Ultimate controllers. Plus I use it for homelab tinkering.
I had a PC connected to my tv for a while, main issue was I didn’t want to use a mouse or keyboard to interact with it. I tried desperately to get more ways of starting via controller or other lite interface devices, but nothing convenient. It was an old machine, so eventually I gave it away.
I use a Logitech K400 to control the PC connected to my TV and I generally find it to be much more convenient and responsive than using the remote on a smart TV or the controller for a console when over at someone else’s place. To each their own though.
Typing anything like a website for the apple TV is the most excruciatingly annoying thing ever, it could only be described as torture. I would punch the executives that approved the design.
The shitty iOS input via annoying notification prompts when anyone in the house uses the TV are not a solution either, since they get so annoying you have yo disable them.
Yep. Trying to type with anything but a keyboard sucks. I love my k400. I’ve had it for years and years. Not sure how old it is but I think I got it during the PS3/360 era for PC TV use and it still works. And batteries last so long on it.
I feel like a lot of these pointer devices miss the simplicity of a remote. A simple one will have a tough time entering passwords, but it’s perfect and simple for the most common actions: Turn on without walking across the room, open the most recent application, play the next episode of the series I was watching last, usually just by mashing confirm. (Nothing to tell it to go fullscreen: Because that’s an obvious assumption for everything)
Running it all on a PC just adds more steps, unless you follow a LOT of guides to configure it to get through those things easily.
I’d really like it if web standards were better at allowing a video website to be navigated with an “Up/Down/Left/Right/Confirm/Back” device, so that you didn’t need apps for everything. That would be good for consumer devices like Apple TVs as well as people running home PC setups.
That’s kinda why I said to each their own. I personally find a full fledged keyboard with integrated touchpad controlling a PC using a media center UI to be my control/interface preference. The keyboard is small enough and light enough that it sits on the couch or end table with the other remotes or controllers without any issue. Until Logitech decided to be cunts there was actually a great solution more on your end of the spectrum in the form of the Harmony remote, but well, they killed it. Luckily though, there are a couple of open source efforts to create equivalent hardware as well as to dump their database of IR codes.
That’s a tough one. The new Steam Controller will probably let you use the trackpads with an onscreen keyboard (as long as you’re running the Steam app), just like the Deck. But personally I can’t get used to that.
You generally need some kind of keyboard with a PC. I have a little handheld Rii i4 with a thumb keyboard, maybe that would be better for you?
Something like ten years ago I got into a console vs PC argument on reddit, and everyone unanimously told me that starting up a PC with a controller was such an easy feature to add that it wasn’t even a consideration. I stuck with consoles.
Personally don’t think it’s as easy to compare the deck to a box. It’s harder to stuff the power of a steam deck into such a small package. I’ve seen the compute of the machine be related to about 600$ if you purchased parts on your own to build the pc, but considering Valve have economies of scale, custom deals for customized chips with amd and having priced “painfully” in the past, there’s a good chance it’s less than 750$. All the Steam decks had the same performance too, the expensive ones just came with more storage and a case (so using the top end price in your example seems unjust?).
Very true, those keyboard/mouse combo things that resemble a gamepad are the best!
(Not usually one to dive into speculation, but “priced like a pc” can literally mean anything so we really have no clue other than looking at the specs)
(I had another thought; i think it’s probably a blunder from a “get all the customers” perspective to have the machine cost upwards of 1k, but maybe they don’t care about that and simply want to set a high standard for linux pcs like they have done with the deck, so yeah i have no clue, based on the specs though, ~600 seems like a good base. The cheaper it is the more customers they stand to gain who have looked at pc gaming and sighed because they didnt know how to get started. Really feels impossible to know their motive rn tho, the machine could simply exist as a “gold standard” to get other oems making this stuff like they have done with the deck as i said above i think)
The new Steam Machine is very compact for a gaming PC of its caliber. That took some real engineering to find the right combination of component size, TDP, thermals and noise for such a small box. There’s obviously no screen and battery but otherwise it’s similar design work as on the Deck.
Makes sense, I haven’t seen dimensions, but the space for pure compute has definitely increased greatly.
It is still very small, but the deck (in comparison) is quite thin which I assume made it much harder to engineer. I’m sure a lot of knowledge has transferred over though and i’m not gonna act like i’d know anyways lol
If you look at a teardown of the Machine, it’s almost all heatsink inside. The remaining space isn’t really a lot bigger than a Deck. But the components run much higher wattage (not constrained by battery) and put out a lot more heat, hence the need for the sink.
Did you get streaming services to stream 4k? That was some bullshit I discovered when I bought my first 4k TV, that streaming services artificially limit quality for browser and Linux streaming.
What is you solution for remote controlling? I used one of this mini keyboard+mouse combo in a shape of controller, but mine was really trash. Most of the time I used a good mouse that worked ok on the couch surface and some mouse binds to pop up a virtual keyboard. But I was never completely happy with the solution.
Never tried 4K, sorry. I’ve only had a 1080p plasma TV (which recently blew a capacitor so I may have to get something else).
For control, I use an old Logitech K830 which has a trackpad right on it. It’s a good step up from the K400 series (lithium rechargeable and backlit keys) but sadly appears to be discontinued 😞
Quick question, can you buy a pc and run the same OS and version of steam that this pc they built uses? Im assuming its the same as steam deck. Just wondering if you could build it exactly the same outside just installing steam.
You can do this now. But it’ll probably be more effort than using something like Bazzite. The image is available publicly. It just assumes a certain set of hardware (AMD GPU, for example). It might be enough to install the GPU drivers you need. Worst case, you might have to recompile the kernel. But all the user space configuration should be fine.
I have a cheap $250 AMD APU based mini pc I bought off Amazon running SteamOS. I just used the Steam Deck restore USB image to install it. I imagine you could use the Steam Machine image the same way when its available.
What kind of performance are you getting with that? Wondering if I can pick up something like that to play some 2d platformers, maybe some low poly 3D stuff (think Overcooked or Moving Out). Been doing more of that stuff in my living room with my kids.
SteamOS is not a general purpose OS. It is optimized to run on the Steam Deck (plus the Frame and Gabecube I guess). Its software components are tested on a limited range of hardware (specifically AMD silicon), and it might not have certain optimizations and compatibility fixes that are required by other consumer hardware. It also probably has some proprietary bits, especially the firmware.
The best option is Bazzite. It’s not based on SteamOS, but it is built with a robust gaming experience in focus. You can even get it to boot directly into Steam Big Picture. Watch this loud Aussie man do it!
The other option is HoloISO, which is an independent reimplementation of SteamOS. Their intention is to get as close to the real SteamOS as possible. Hardware support is limited (especially nvidia).
Popping in to champion bazzite, it’s my daily use os and I’ve never found an os that’s as easy and clean to run. So far the only issue I’ve had is that it doesn’t support some laptop wifi cards out of the box.
They haven’t released the current version of SteamOS to be installed on any machine and imaging the actual Deck’s OS won’t work on all hardware. You could do the old steam machine OS; but it is not anywhere the same as what the Deck and this new Steam Machine use other than being based on Linux.
There is Bazzite, though, which is not the same OS, but strives to offer the same experience.
They have released the recovery image for the deck, which can be installed on any computer and if you have AMD built pc, it should work just fine. Ofc ymmv.
That sucks. I hoped Valve would price it competitively to boost the sales and adoption. But why would I buy this “crippled” PC for the same price I can buy retail? The main gripe for me is Gabecube has no room for upgrade, not even second drive, nothing. Which obviously is not the case with self built PC.
Don’t get me wrong I still like the idea, but the price just must make sense.
I mean crippled like it is “as is”, no space to expand, tinker, swap parts. I’ve also seen a rumor it’ll have locked BIOS, but I hope that’s just a rumor.
Well, it technically is if you remove the current RAM chips, solder on new double density RAM chips, and flash the BIOS. But compared to a regular PC of just plugging the RAM sticks into the Motherboard slots they belong in, trying to expand RAM on the Steam Deck might as well be considered not possible. Even if you do expand the RAM, there is no noticeable performance gain.
Yeah, I said that in the second part of my comment. It requires desoldering the RAM chips and soldering on new ones, a step most people aren’t going to do.
I know speculation is fun, but until we know the price officially, all of this is moot. Wait until next year when they announce actual pricing and judge it then for its value.
I, personally, don’t think it’ll be a successful product if it isn’t less than $800. They don’t have to have it cost console prices, but it does need to be at least somewhat within spitting distance. If the price is the cost of an Xbox or Playstation plus, say…a year of their online service subscription, I think that could be marketable.
If it’s closer to a grand, it’ll be a flop like the first Steam Machines.
Maybe we will all benefit if the 14 year old kids gets a steam machine, instead of some cheap pos with loads of errors, slowness etc = extra rage in games.
I went to PCPartPicker and tried to assemble a similarly spec’d PC, not with the absolute cheapest components, but definitely from the lower end sorted by price, it came out close to $800.
I guess if Valve can price it at that and be smaller it might have a market, but if much more than that people are better off just buying a PC.
P.S. Since Valve is not buying retail I think there is room for lower than that, and it’d definitely be welcome, but I’m not sure Valve will make that decision.
PCPartPicker has a general price tracker where you can see how much RAM has spiked in such a short time. It really emphasizes how crazy things have gotten
In the past decade, PC hobbyists have been the victims of the latest group of regards “getting the bag”. Crypto 1.0, 2.0 and now AI. It’s the biggest fool theory doing its thing. I fucking hate tech bros and crypto bros. They are the huma race’s macro analogy for cancer cells.
Brother it’s so bad. I’ve been trying to help a friend do one recently, or at least plan it, and I’ve watched my previously $85 2x16 sticks of GSkill DDR5 (like the cheapest option I had) shoot up to like $260 in under a month has been insane. It’s not even good ram…
In the same boat actually. Helping a friend with a build and RAM is ridiculous right now. crappy slower 2x16 kits costing $350 and far beyond. Their desired upper end CPU is less than most RAM kits. I was trying to find a middle ground for them with 2x24 but I can’t even find those kits anymore. Doesn’t help that these days 32 is recommended for some games, let alone aminimum for productivity software. I got lucky when I built. Prices were bad (~150 for 2x24!!) but shot up not even days after I built last month and my kit hasn’t even been in stock since I got it.
I recently (a few months ago) built a new high-end server for my homelab, and bought 512GB of DDR4 ECC RAM for around $510. I just looked it up, and those exact same modules are around $2.5k to $3.5k for the same amount. That’s more than I paid for the entire machine.
Most gamers don’t want to get involved with PC building and just want something as convenient as a console to play their Steam games with good performance on a big screen. This can be priced quite above what a nerd would be able to build by himself with PCPartPicker.
I’ve seen estimates put the materials cost somewhere around the $425 - 500 USD range because of the specific, semi-custom hardware that they’re using. It’s also good to note that Valve will be able to get a better deal than any of us will because they can get bulk discounts and aren’t buying each part at a market rate profit from retail vendors.
Some people seem to be of the mind that it will be somewhere around the $500 - 800 USD range if tariffs and the RAM situation don’t screw with the price, and that it will probably price out the Xbox with Microsoft’s 30% profit demand and be slightly more expensive than the PS5 while having comparable but not quite as much power.
A PC of similar performance is about $550 so I don’t get what they’re saying about it not been priced like a console. That’s about exactly what a Series S would cost.
Used market prices, probably. An 8GB VRAM video card and an appropriate CPU that wouldn’t bottleneck performance could easily fit under $500. I guess nowadays the RAM would be the hangup lol.
I don’t know why people keep insisting that the current prices are relevant. These products have been manufactured for months now, so we need to be looking at old prices not current market value.
I didn’t use prices from last week I used prices from last year because that’s when Steam would have actually made their devices. Manufacturing of the steam machine and the steam frame is rumoured to have occurred around 2023-2024, should the Trump shenanigans shouldn’t have affected things too much.
That’s not to say that somehow much the devices will cost it’s just how much it would have cost to build. How much profit they’re going to try and make on them is an unknown. With the steam deck they aim for $100 profit margin, but who knows with this device. The steam frame is also an unknown because it’s a weird configuration.
Think about it this way, people. Yes, it may be more expensive than a PlayStation. However, Steam offers numerous deals several times a year, so it will be worth the investment. In the long run, owning a Steam Machine or PC will pay for itself.
Unfortunately, due to the craze of AI server farms, PC parts are becoming more expensive. For example, the price of RAM has doubled, and analysts say that SSDs will suffer the same fate.
I think this geared toward the crowd that plays games, but doesn’t have the latest and greatest hardware nor likes to tinker. This will be an upgrade for a lot of people and the ability to just set it up and play your already existing backlog with ease is the main selling point over power.
It’s an awesome device which will help drive the Linux gaming ecosystem forward, but it’s not for me personally as it doesn’t hold a candle to my PC.
However, Steam offers numerous deals several times a year, so it will be worth the investment. In the long run, owning a Steam Machine or PC will pay for itself.
And you also don’t have to pay monthly for multiplayer!
I’m honestly amazed console gamers have accepted paying for multiplayer (though, I do note, PC gaming has expanded over time, I wonder why…). I had a PS2; I remember being excited about buying a PS4. It has a blu-ray player! The graphics are so much nicer! The previous gen even had free multiplayer!
I never bought a PS4, it had paid multiplayer. Fuck that.
Edit: I did briefly own a 360, the paid multiplayer was the reason I sold it fairly quickly. It felt like it was trying to milk me, and I would rather just be rid of it.
The real question is if Valve plans to swallow the jumps in price. They must have designed the machine before the price hikes, so I wonder if they already had a price in mind and whether they're gonna stick to it.
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