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48954246, do games w An Update on Cities: Skylines II - Development moved to Iceflake Studios

iceflake.com/games/

Their backlog does not inspire confidence. Hope I’m proved wrong

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Echoes of Paradox moving Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 to The Chinese Room for some reason none of us on the outside understand.

rtxn,

That is still so fucking mysterious to me. The Chinese Room makes exactly one type of game, which is “guided-interactive narrative experience” to be diplomatic. The exact opposite of Bloodlines 1. Dear Esther, Ozzy Mandus And The Crankhog Machine, their entire portfolio follows the same formula: strong in art direction, atmosphere, and story; weak in gameplay. Even a hit like Still Wakes The Deep only takes gameplay as far as “throw object to make the thing look away”. Their gameplay systems are not just middling but comfortably average, just enough to keep the player engaged while moving through the (admittedly beautiful) environments.

So why the fuck did Paradox choose them for Bloodlines 2? Are they stupid?

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

The only explanation I can come up with is that they’re a studio that reliably ships finished projects, and maybe that was all Paradox was looking for.

redhorsejacket,

After VtM 1’s tumultuous release, not to mention the drama surrounding the sequel’s development, that makes sense to me.

That being said, I don’t think it’s quite as big a leap as the person above is making it sound. To use their words, The Chinese Room are known for “strong art direction, atmosphere, and story, [and] weak gameplay”. They also suggest that the games TCR make are “the exact opposite” of Bloodlines 1. Which is kinda boggling my mind, cause I’m pretty sure the critical and user consensus of that game is that it excelled in its art direction, atmosphere, and story, and fell comparatively short in its gameplay. In fairness, I think he was referring to the limited open world nature of VtM 1 vs the straight linearity of the “walking sim” genre, but still. I’d argue the most memorable section of VtM is the Ocean House Hotel, which is, basically, a linear walking sim level, and it’s not as though the og game did a ton with its open world.

Now there’s an argument to be made that Paradox made the wrong call by doubling down on the peripheral elements of the game, rather than hiring a team that has ARPG gameplay bonafides, but I think that’s only an argument that can be made with the benefit of hindsight. Additionally, is it true that the gameplay/combat of VtM2 is glaringly bad? I can’t speak for myself, but the handful of reviews I read characterize it as serviceable at worst. Which, again, seems right in line with the first game.

I’m very much on the outside looking in though.

False, (edited )

Just because that’s all you’ve done doesn’t mean that’s all you can do.

123, (edited )

But it is a good indication of what you can do better (from experience).

H1AA6329S,

Basically a bunch of mobile games that can now be made within a week with a proper AI use.

Mad_Punda,

They have been working on an unannounced city builder for a while now. Maybe not on the same scale as cities skylines, but at least it’s the same genre. So hopefully they have gathered some experience in the area already? Can’t speak to the results yet, though.

I’m more worried they don’t have the capacity to meaningfully improve anything about cities while also working on that new thing.

H1AA6329S, do games w An Update on Cities: Skylines II - Development moved to Iceflake Studios

I think this means that the game won’t ever be fixed and they abandoned the dump fire that the cities skylines 2 is. What a shame, but was to be expected after how it went down with the release. It’s been like two years now and they didn’t improve the game much at all…

nekusoul,
@nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

Yup. I’ve tried the game during their recent free weekend, and even with an empty map the FPS went below 30 FPS. Granted, that was at 4K with high settings, but still very much inexcusable considering it’s running on a 9070XT and again, a completely empty map.

After all, even putting all the other problems the game has aside, why shouldn’t I just play the first game if this one doesn’t manage to either look or perform dramatically better?

Agent_Karyo, (edited ) do games w An Update on Cities: Skylines II - Development moved to Iceflake Studios

Maybe this means we'll see a Cities in Motion 3 or does Paradox still retain the Cities in Motion brand?

I was really excited for the original Cities in Motion back in 2011, crazy to think almost 15 years have passed.

Rentlar, do games w An Update on Cities: Skylines II - Development moved to Iceflake Studios

I don’t need anything from City Skylines 2 other than a fully fledged custom 3d asset importer. Then it will be as if the game has thousands of unpaid staff making content. Though if this next team picks up from an unfamiliar location it might still be a long time before we could even think of getting it.

More updates will be nice.

rtxn, do games w An Update on Cities: Skylines II - Development moved to Iceflake Studios

Sounds like it’s for the best. Paradox was killing CO.

Lootboblin, do games w Prison Architect 2 Has Been Delayed Indefinitely, Pre-Orders Are Being Refunded
@Lootboblin@lemmy.world avatar

Paradox: can you show us the DLC content?, PA2: No, we want to make the base game first, Paradox axe: wrong answer

carl_dungeon, do games w Prison Architect 2 Has Been Delayed Indefinitely, Pre-Orders Are Being Refunded

I loved 1 - but 2 didn’t make any sense to me. Slapping 3D on it didn’t seem like something it needed, and it makes it a very different game. Plus, it’s not made by introversion - that’s where 95% of the humor and novel game mechanics came from.

Unforeseen,

Yeah I thought the same. I played 1 from the very beginning up until release. When I heard about 2 I wasn’t even interested, it seemed to me it would be doomed from the start.

DarkThoughts,

Yeah. Introversion makes The Last Starship at the moment.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1857080/The_Last_Starship/

carl_dungeon,

Yeah, looking forward to it!!!

slazer2au,

On the bright side, with this it won’t turn into another CS2 or KSP2.

kuberoot,

Considering they supposedly cited performance as a reason, they might’ve been about to pull a Cities skylines 2 indeed

dinckelman, do games w Prison Architect 2 Has Been Delayed Indefinitely, Pre-Orders Are Being Refunded

I really loved the first game, but have zero faith in the sequel. I think the whole 3d rework makes no sense, and on top of that, it’s led by a company, that’s historically made the worst choices in every aspect of development

Canadian_Cabinet, do games w Prison Architect 2 Has Been Delayed Indefinitely, Pre-Orders Are Being Refunded

Prison Architect 1 was amazing, up until Paradox bought it. I didn’t have high hopes for PA2 (not like I was going to play it anyway) but I definitely wasn’t expecting this

Mechanize, do games w Prison Architect 2 Has Been Delayed Indefinitely, Pre-Orders Are Being Refunded

The (IMHO) important bits:

TLDR:

Our continuous internal reviews and beta test groups have highlighted areas that we need to focus on more, mainly performance and content

From the FAQ:

Is the game canceled?
No, the game is not canceled.

What happens to pre-orders?
All pre-orders will be refunded in the upcoming weeks. The option to pre-order the game will be removed and the bonus will instead be added to the base game for all

Is there going to be Early Access or Beta Access to the game?
There will not be an early access or extra beta access right now

In the blog there are the steps to how to get the refunds, I’m not copying them in case they change.

As they say, A Delayed Game Is Eventually Good, But a Bad Game Is Bad Forever ^/s?^

imPastaSyndrome,

mainly performance and content

Oh so everything?

bionicjoey,

All of this could have been said about PDX’s Sims competitor Life By You when it got “delayed indefinitely” too. But then a week later it was cancelled. And then a week after that the lead dev came out and said there was no reason for it to have been cancelled because they had been on track for release before Paradox pulled the plug.

sukhmel, do games w Cities Skylines 2: "Beach properties assets are all gone and my city is screwed. Thanks a lot."
FooBarrington,

God, how can someone be so blind?

But this was such an edge case, removing assets resulting in the unavailability of said assets in game, that this interruption simply couldn’t have been for foreseen.

They couldn’t foresee issues created by removing assets, in a game that is supposed to support user mods, which can be added/removed at any time? Really?

The explanation I’ve seen is that they wanted to pull the DLC as soon as possible, since it was - literally - the worst-rated product on Steam. I’m 99% sure the bean counters responsible for all of the terrible decisions (release the game, no matter what state! Release the DLC, no matter the amount of content!) pulled the lever on this one again - no chance they’ll see any responsibility with themselves.

lanolinoil,
@lanolinoil@lemmy.world avatar

surely this is satire no?

FooBarrington,

You’re probably right, especially considering this sentence:

It’s difficult to see in advance that removing game assets from the game will result in the unavailability of said assets in game.

I’ve seen this kind of defense meant honestly before, so I’m not 100% sure, but by god - I hope you’re right.

sukhmel,
Summzashi,

Wooooooooooooooosh

FooBarrington,

God, I hope so!

Caligvla,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Wait, but if they pulled the game from Steam shouldn’t the owners still keep the game (DLC in this case) on their libraries?

FooBarrington,

They refunded people, which probably removed the DLC from their libraries. People who bought the ultimate edition kept it.

Caligvla,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That can happen? I wasn’t aware developers could literally remove a game from your Steam library, if so that’s really shitty and scummy.

FooBarrington,

Well, they refunded it, so people got their money back. But it sucks that it breaks peoples save files.

Caligvla,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I guess, but so the owner chose to get a refund, right? If so then that’s to be expected, if that’s the case then I don’t see what the fuzz is about. Unless the refund was forced onto the customer.

FooBarrington, (edited )

The refund was forced. Players didn’t choose it.

Caligvla,
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Well then my opinion stands, that’s pretty shitty. The choice to refund should ultimately lie with the customer not with the company.

FooBarrington,

I think the refund would have been right to do from the company side once everything was prepared - it wouldn’t be right for them to keep any money from customers after the content has been integrated into the base game. But only once they are sure nothing will break due to the refund.

FalseMyrmidon,

Not everything needs a change management procedure, calm down there Satan.

originalfrozenbanana,

But…but software development absolutely does

fishpen0,

deleted_by_author

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  • FalseMyrmidon,

    Yeah, the industry as a whole has been moving away from these types of processes for the last 15 years. There are exceptions where it can still make sense but they have significantly higher risk profiles than video games do.

    FalseMyrmidon,

    You can keep your grubby ITIL process far away from me.

    dinckelman,

    Truth be told, i don’t have an ounce of care in me about this community council. I want them to make a product that was advertised, because so far it’s just a scam of colossal orders of magnitude (ha)

    Lizardking27, do games w Cities Skylines 2: "Beach properties assets are all gone and my city is screwed. Thanks a lot."

    I think we need to admit that paradox is a shitty greedy company that cares more about selling a million DLCs than they do about making a quality product.

    Paradox’s business practices have always been greedy and over monetized. Not sure why anyone is surprised their latest product sucks.

    griD,

    Hmm, I’ve only played Stellaris from this company and that game is great. A bit pricey with all the DLC, but the alternative of releasing a new Stellaris every few years probably amounts to the same.
    Also, I’d rather play a well fleshed out 8 year old game, than getting a bare boned husk with each iteration - which sadly tends to be the norm for 4x games.

    Lizardking27,

    “A bit pricey”

    My dude stellaris+all DLC is $350!

    Furthermore, “releasing a new stellaris every few years” is not the only alternative. Look at all the games that exist that have regular free content updates.

    Paradox needs to do better.

    konsn,

    Dont know about stellaris but I got Cities Skylines (1) with all the content DLCs at the time for under $50, which I consider a very good deal for the hours I put in. For reference, I paid roughly the same amount for BF5 which I played for about a month and then forgot about it

    wahming,

    Not sure whether you got it on sale, or how many DLC you actually got, but it currently costs $380 for the complete package.

    Minnels,

    It was in a humble bundle way back. Same with EU4 and CK2 had their own bundles iirc. All were great deals if you didn’t own it.

    wahming,

    300 USD… a ‘little’ pricey

    ILikeBoobies,

    The link suggests the opposite of what you’re claiming

    you were of course supposed to keep access to the Beach Properties content until the patch that moves it to the base game arrived. Assets are replaced by the placeholder boxes, but as the waterfront zoning isn’t available in the base game yet, I recommend holding off on loading saves with a lot of those zones.

    Putting dlc content into the base game doesn’t sound like they are trying to sell millions of dlc

    SpacetimeMachine,

    Only because there was major backlash for releasing dlc content before the base game is even in a finished state and is still missing content that players feel should be in the base game.

    Maggoty,

    In hearts of iron they always made sure to drop free content along with the paid content.

    Lizardking27, do games w Cities Skylines 2: "Beach properties assets are all gone and my city is screwed. Thanks a lot."

    Only someone with zero context would try to claim that. You must be completely unfamiliar with paradox games.

    Nibodhika, do games w Cities Skylines 2: "Beach properties assets are all gone and my city is screwed. Thanks a lot."

    Long story short:

    1. CO released an unoptimized game
    2. Community complained
    3. CO vowed to fix it before releasing DLCs
    4. CO released an assets only DLC
    5. Community complained they broke their promise
    6. CO tried to explain it’s different teams
    7. Community kept complaining
    8. CO refunded the DLC for everyone and removed it from Steam and will add the content for free in the next update
    9. Community gets refund and assets become gray boxes until the new version is released
    10. Community complains about grey boxes

    Yes, CO did bad releasing an unoptimized game, but if you put pressure for a cosmetic DLC to be removed you can’t be angry that they removed said DLC.

    FooBarrington,

    Yes, CO did bad releasing an unoptimized game, but if you put pressure for a cosmetic DLC to be removed you can’t be angry that they removed said DLC.

    I strongly disagree with this for two reasons:

    1. Nobody put pressure on them to remove the content from the game. “Removing the DLC” can be done in productive or non-productive ways, the latter of which happened here - a better solution would be to set it as non-buyable on Steam and wait with refunds until the patch has been released which allows people to continue playing.
    2. It’s not just grey boxes (which would be bad enough on its own - these people paid for the content, there’s no technical reason for them not to have it right now) - the CO employee literally says:

    Assets are replaced by the placeholder boxes, but as the waterfront zoning isn’t available in the base game yet, I recommend holding off on loading saves with a lot of those zones.

    So the people who bought the shitty DLC, as in the die-hard fans, can’t play on their saves due to COs fuckup.

    4am, do games w Cities Skylines 2: "Beach properties assets are all gone and my city is screwed. Thanks a lot."

    CSII has been a shitshow, and the devs rightfully should be ashamed, but honestly reading the comments on that forum makes me really not feel bad for a lot of those people doing the complaining.

    Like yeah the game is broken, you got an incomplete product, and it’s ok to be upset. They didn’t fucking kill your dog, there’s no need to fucking dig into them quite so hard, dude. Stop acting like your abusive parents did to you.

    systemglitch,

    They have every right to do exactly what you say they shouldn’t. Get off your high horse.

    GBU_28,

    You’re saying if someone sells you a shitty blender or toaster that’s the same as they killed your dog?

    systemglitch,

    Link me the quote where I said that lol

    GBU_28,

    If you literally said it is have quoted it. I’m making a hypothetical equivalency to prove a point.

    They sold a product. It sucks. Have they really violated you beyond that transaction?

    systemglitch,

    Lol no, I’m just filled with my own personal disappointment fueling my outrage.

    GBU_28,

    So just say no

    Car,

    I think you need to re-read the linked thread. Nobody’s as extreme as you’re making them out to be.

    The complaints are fairly level headed. I’ve seen worse in Amazon product reviews.

    Woozythebear,

    Found the CS2 dev

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